**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[HumblePie]

I have heard the same on your assessment of Juggernauts which is what I WANT to be, a TANK for my team, but sounds like I will get my head handed to me in PVP...

If Juggernauts are that week, do they STILL make good PVE group mission tanks?

From my understanding, all the tanks do that just fine. You will have an AoE agro and single target agro abilities. You have SOME range still, but it's at 10m typically for most of your abilities compared to 40m+ for other archetypes.

Sith Infiltrator as a tank and the Jedi Shadow as a tank still do okay in PvP from what I hear because they have stealth as well. Which allows them to get a little closer at least and to get away sometimes. They also have more damage than Jedi Guardians or Sith Marauders. A little more, but not much more.

Now if you want to be the most useful in PVE and PVP right now the only real light saber wielding archetypes to use are Jedi Sage (advanced of the Jedi Consular) and the Sith Inquisitor caster advanced class. They can heal, deal out dps, and have a "tank" companion pet. Which is why I said earlier that the healer classes of the game right now are pretty much OP compared with anyone else. And massively so.

 

[CVSiN]

So in your opinion, if I have group of friends that are playing Bounty Hunter, Sith Inquisitor, and Agent, what class should I be to most help them out PVP and PVE?

Thanks!

thats a pretty solid group if you are going to be in a group like that roll pretty much anything you feel like trying..

but sub specs on those would be good to know as the base classes are too vague..

right there you have an SI which can be a healer.. a ranged DPS...a Rogue or a light tank...

you have the Agent.. which can be a Ranged DPS or a Rogue like stealth DPS.. or a flat healer..

and the Bh which can be a tank.. a healer or a ranged DPS..

so yeh sub classes matter far more than base class..

 

[HumblePie]

My bad, I am going from memory Cvsin. Basically when I said Commando Vanguard, I thought Commando was the base class. I was trying to refer to class as base -> advanced. So I should have said Trooper -> Vanguard for Republic and Bounty Hunter -> Powertech for the Empire are the best tanks in the game right now. While the Consular -> Shadow and the Inqusitor -> Assassin are the next two best tanks. The Knight -> Guardian and the Warrior -> Juggernaut are the worst tanks from both a PVE and PVP perspective.

 

[CVSiN]

From my understanding, all the tanks do that just fine. You will have an AoE agro and single target agro abilities. You have SOME range still, but it's at 10m typically for most of your abilities compared to 40m+ for other archetypes.

Sith Infiltrator as a tank and the Jedi Shadow as a tank still do okay in PvP from what I hear because they have stealth as well. Which allows them to get a little closer at least and to get away sometimes. They also have more damage than Jedi Guardians or Sith Marauders. A little more, but not much more.

Now if you want to be the most useful in PVE and PVP right now the only real light saber wielding archetypes to use are Jedi Sage (advanced of the Jedi Consular) and the Sith Inquisitor caster advanced class. They can heal, deal out dps, and have a "tank" companion pet. Which is why I said earlier that the healer classes of the game right now are pretty much OP compared with anyone else. And massively so.

Actually correction.. they took away the only 10meter moves the jedi classes have.. they took away saber throw and gave a crappy version of Mortal Strike that is a saber type throw but it is far mroe useful as a debuff than a damage move.
the Jugg/Guard are also very weak on AOE groups..

the ranged classes have the tools to AOE tank.

and the evil caster is called the Sorcerer not the Inquis.. the Inquis is the base class.

and just so you know.. Shadows/Sins in tank spec are AMAZING in PVP.. if you like the stealth class mentality..

they do not seem to give up much damage capabilities even as a tank... and they HURT..

do not let one of these guys around you.. backstab stun backstab.. lightning = dead you.

 

[Anomaly1964]

thats a pretty solid group if you are going to be in a group like that roll pretty much anything you feel like trying..

but sub specs on those would be good to know as the base classes are too vague..

right there you have an SI which can be a healer.. a ranged DPS...a Rogue or a light tank...

you have the Agent.. which can be a Ranged DPS or a Rogue like stealth DPS.. or a flat healer..

and the Bh which can be a tank.. a healer or a ranged DPS..

so yeh sub classes matter far more than base class..

BH is a powertech...

SI is a healer...

Agent is full on sniper tree...

Does that help?

 

[CVSiN]

BH is a powertech...

SI is a healer...

Agent is full on sniper tree...

Does that help?

so you're going to want another DPS class there then.

merc with touch up healing is awesome.. as is the Assassin one of my faves hands down sit behind them and just rip them to pieces with backstabs and lightning.
GF loves the Nuker Sorc... also with touchup healing.. very fun as well.


but then again who knows Jugg and Mar may be fixed at final.. so roll what you want.. just know the limitations and the beta issues of the classes before you do.

 

[HumblePie]

Actually correction.. they took away the only 10meter moves the jedi classes have.. they took away saber throw and gave a crappy version of Mortal Strike that is a saber type throw but it is far mroe useful as a debuff than a damage move.
the Jugg/Guard are also very weak on AOE groups..

the ranged classes have the tools to AOE tank.

and the evil caster is called the Sorcerer not the Inquis.. the Inquis is the base class.

and just so you know.. Shadows/Sins in tank spec are AMAZING in PVP.. if you like the stealth class mentality..

they do not seem to give up much damage capabilities even as a tank... and they HURT..

do not let one of these guys around you.. backstab stun backstab.. lightning = dead you.

I never said that Inquisitor was the advanced class. Re-read what I had posted. I said the advanced class that is the ranged DPS the Inquisitor turns into. I just didn't remember the actual name of the advanced class which was Sorcerer.

I also know the shadow is good as I played one. I did a few duels and it was pretty easy 1v1 as a shadow to kill anyone I went against. Stealth against people is far more OP than it is against NPCs. I think that is because of latency issues. Where an NPC would see you from 20 meters away while you are stealthed and they are facing you, a player would only see you about 3 meters away. Which means you can run straight up into melee range directly while stealthed and they won't have time to react.

The downside I can see to stealth is the movement speed penalty is pretty harsh even with the talents to alleviate it somewhat. Then again there is a somewhat longish cooldown speed boost ability that can be used while stealth for 150% movement speed if memory serves me correctly.

As far as backstab goes. The damage on backstab is not what it should be. I posted above and from friends in my guild who are general testers have told me the damage is screwed. It is way too low compared to what it states. All other melee abilities both out damage backstab, don't require position, have quicker animation times, and take way less force to use. Not only that, backstab is a massive force casting hog. You can't do a backstab -> stun -> backstab combo. Don't have the force to do that sequentially.

 

[JoshGuru7]

Can any testers recommend a sith class for me? I'm leaning towards imperial agent but this will be my first weekend testing.

I tend to like ranged/healing classes especially if they are complicated. Here's what I've liked in previous games...
AC - Archer
EQ - Coercer
SWG - Rifleman / Combat Medic
DDO - Sorcerer
LOTRO - Lore-master, Minstrel, Warden
AoC - ToS / PoM
Guild Wars - Mesmer/Elementalist
WAR - Zealot
Aion - Sorcerer
Rift - Cleric

 

[CVSiN]

I never said that Inquisitor was the advanced class. Re-read what I had posted. I said the advanced class that is the ranged DPS the Inquisitor turns into. I just didn't remember the actual name of the advanced class which was Sorcerer.

I also know the shadow is good as I played one. I did a few duels and it was pretty easy 1v1 as a shadow to kill anyone I went against. Stealth against people is far more OP than it is against NPCs. I think that is because of latency issues. Where an NPC would see you from 20 meters away while you are stealthed and they are facing you, a player would only see you about 3 meters away. Which means you can run straight up into melee range directly while stealthed and they won't have time to react.

The downside I can see to stealth is the movement speed penalty is pretty harsh even with the talents to alleviate it somewhat. Then again there is a somewhat longish cooldown speed boost ability that can be used while stealth for 150% movement speed if memory serves me correctly.

As far as backstab goes. The damage on backstab is not what it should be. I posted above and from friends in my guild who are general testers have told me the damage is screwed. It is way too low compared to what it states. All other melee abilities both out damage backstab, don't require position, have quicker animation times, and take way less force to use. Not only that, backstab is a massive force casting hog. You can't do a backstab -> stun -> backstab combo. Don't have the force to do that sequentially.

Well with a L30 Assassin I flat disagree..
my crit backstabs are into the 3000-4000 range..
there is NO other ability that hits that hard in the game right now..

and I use stealth vs NPCs all the time especially once you get past 14 and get Sprint.. the penalty is very low especially with talents and the force speed dash.

and yes you can chain those moves I do it every day in PVP and PVE over and over again..

 

[HumblePie]

Well with a L30 Assassin I flat disagree..
my crit backstabs are into the 3000-4000 range..
there is NO other ability that hits that hard in the game right now..

and I use stealth vs NPCs all the time especially once you get past 14 and get Sprint.. the penalty is very low especially with talents and the force speed dash.

and yes you can chain those moves I do it every day in PVP and PVE over and over again..

I was level 18 as a Jedi Shadow last beta. But even with sprint you are still slower than non stealth classes without that force speed dash which lasts for 2 or 3 whole seconds because everyone gets sprint at level 14.

As I stated above with backstab, it was messed up for at least me and my friend who was a level 26 assassin. My backstab was listed as around 480-515 damage on the tooltip if memory serves me right. It was listed as 50 force to use which is correct. But the actual damage it consistently did was around 330-380 damage. Most I ever hit for with backstab was 420 damage at level 18. By contrast my double strike melee ability was listed as 160-185 range damage on the tooltip per hit for two hits. It costs 25 force. In reality I was hitting 260-280 per hit. Which means over the same animation time as the backstab I was doing 520-560 damage with double strike consistently. Let us compare this more directly shall we?

Ability              Listed Damage       Force Cost        Actual damage
Backstab             480-515                50                 330-380
Double Strike        160-185                25                 520-560

Which would you use based off that and would say is superior and which would you say is broken? This was something I tested, had others test, and sent bug reports on during the last beta weekend.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but that is what I noticed and what everyone I else I've spoken with (besides you) has also noticed about the backstab ability.


As far as chaining backstab + stun + backstab.... Let's see. You have 100 force total. Back stab is 50 and stun is 25. Backstab + stun + backstab = 125 force. I think that combo is a bit higher than the current pool to use. Now you can wait a second to gain that 25 force back after you backstab + stun and hope the other player stays in backstab position once the 1 second stun wears off (assuming that player didn't use their CC breaker ability first).

 

[CVSiN]

I was level 18 as a Jedi Shadow last beta. But even with sprint you are still slower than non stealth classes without that force speed dash which lasts for 2 or 3 whole seconds because everyone gets sprint at level 14.

As I stated above with backstab, it was messed up for at least me and my friend who was a level 26 assassin. My backstab was listed as around 480-515 damage on the tooltip if memory serves me right. It was listed as 50 force to use which is correct. But the actual damage it consistently did was around 330-380 damage. Most I ever hit for with backstab was 420 damage at level 18. By contrast my double strike melee ability was listed as 160-185 range damage on the tooltip per hit for two hits. It costs 25 force. In reality I was hitting 260-280 per hit. Which means over the same animation time as the backstab I was doing 520-560 damage with double strike consistently. Let us compare this more directly shall we?

Ability              Listed Damage       Force Cost        Actual damage
Backstab             480-515                50                 330-380
Double Strike        160-185                25                 520-560

Which would you use based off that and would say is superior and which would you say is broken? This was something I tested, had others test, and sent bug reports on during the last beta weekend.

I'm not saying you are wrong, but that is what I noticed and what everyone I else I've spoken with (besides you) has also noticed about the backstab ability.


As far as chaining backstab + stun + backstab.... Let's see. You have 100 force total. Back stab is 50 and stun is 25. Backstab + stun + backstab = 125 force. I think that combo is a bit higher than the current pool to use. Now you can wait a second to gain that 25 force back after you backstab + stun and hope the other player stays in backstab position once the 1 second stun wears off (assuming that player didn't use their CC breaker ability first).

Do not rely on anything the tool tips say in this game yet..
they are almost always wrong.

I'm not talking PVE I'm talking flat PVP.. I care less about PVE as nothing is working well in the dungeons yet anyway and end game PVP gear so far trumps anything we have seen.

with Bolstering to L50 a backstab will flat demolish your opponant.. nothing else takes half a life in 1 hit..

backstabs can also flat ignore armor using talents..

and you also get a extra 10 force pool as well via talents..

and you get talented abilities that help regen speeds as well as grant cheaper moves...

by the time you get the first back stab off.. then stun.. your pool will already have enough for another backstab.. your fgorce pool does not stay empty like in other games it regens very very quickly.. and we also have PVP/PVE centric consumables that instant replenish that pool in hectic situations..

if you do not use backstab on a Shadow/Ass you are flat gimping yourself as your project/and lightning are your second most damaging moves.


Look at the VERY first talent in the stealth tree... Duplicity. 50% discount on force power for backstab as well as 50% ignored armor.

BTW why are you chasing people?

you should NEVER chase people wait for a friend to engage someone then force sprint in and rip them a new one from behind..

 

[Anomaly1964]

I guess I am just too simple minded and think too logically...

..but one would think that some Sith Juggernaut flying 30meters through the air with light saber double gripped would just about cut someone in half...sigh.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

they don't have any survivability nor group utility and can be easily kited and destroyed by pretty much any other class.

This reminds me...does TOR have an equivalent to what in Everquest were "roots" and "snares"? (Or "darkness" if you were a necro/shadowknight)

 

[CVSiN]

I guess I am just too simple minded and think too logically...

..but one would think that some Sith Juggernaut flying 30meters through the air with light saber double gripped would just about cut someone in half...sigh.

haha I think ALL of the beta team agrees with you..

including myself.. a Sith Marauder with twin sabers should destroy ANYTHING in melee range..

and be able to stay there for more than 2 secs before being destroyed.

 

[CVSiN]

This reminds me...does TOR have an equivalent to what in Everquest were "roots" and "snares"? (Or "darkness" if you were a necro/shadowknight)

Yes every class has a slow ability pretty much.

makes it very easy to kite the poor melee classes..

and every class has 1 remove affect button that has a 2 minute cool down.. so you do the math..

the sec you use that 2 min cool down ability someone will flat stun you or slow you again and game over..

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Yes every class has a slow ability pretty much.

makes it very easy to kite the poor melee classes..

and every class has 1 remove affect button that has a 2 minute cool down.. so you do the math..

the sec you use that 2 min cool down ability someone will flat stun you or slow you again and game over..

You mean every "caster" class has a slow ability? Or even the melee classes have a slow ability?

 

[CVSiN]

You mean every "caster" class has a slow ability? Or even the melee classes have a slow ability?

EVERYONE.. yes melee and ranged shooters as well..
everyone gets an ability to slow as well as a stun as well.

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

EVERYONE.. yes melee and ranged shooters as well..
everyone gets an ability to slow as well as a stun as well.

That's what I don't understand...if everyone gets those abilities, including those classes you said get raped easily, then what prevents those easily raped classes from doing the same to other classes?

I have to say, everyone getting the same abilities is kind of...lame. Watered down classes...

Also, in Everquest's early days, of course gear had "resists" on it, if you intentionally gathered resist gear(sacrificing armor class/hit points) it would make you immune...is that going to be the case in TOR?

 

[Nizology]

Just curious, but what guilds do you guys all belong to, if any yet?

 

[CVSiN]

That's what I don't understand...if everyone gets those abilities, including those classes you said get raped easily, then what prevents those easily raped classes from doing the same to other classes?

I have to say, everyone getting the same abilities is kind of...lame. Watered down classes...

Also, in Everquest's early days, of course gear had "resists" on it, if you intentionally gathered resist gear(sacrificing armor class/hit points) it would make you immune...is that going to be the case in TOR?

easy.. the other classes for the most part all do them from RANGE.. and do more damage with Impunity from melee.. except the stealthers who deal with it by beign sneaky.. as well as both having 10m ranged abilities..

if you cannot get close to them as a Jedi/Sith then you cannot use your leg clip..

 

[HumblePie]

That's what I don't understand...if everyone gets those abilities, including those classes you said get raped easily, then what prevents those easily raped classes from doing the same to other classes?

I have to say, everyone getting the same abilities is kind of...lame. Watered down classes...

Also, in Everquest's early days, of course gear had "resists" on it, if you intentionally gathered resist gear(sacrificing armor class/hit points) it would make you immune...is that going to be the case in TOR?

The range at which you can use them. Melee class slow = 10 meters. Range class slow = 40m. You do the math.

 

[CVSiN]

The range at which you can use them. Melee class stun = 10 meters. Range class stun = 40m. You do the math.

actually its melee range so is more like 2-4 meters..

so even worse.. now if they made the slow into a saber throw and did give it a 10M range.. that might help a little bit..

 

[HumblePie]

actually its melee range so is more like 2-4 meters..

so even worse.. now if they made the slow into a saber throw and did give it a 10M range.. that might help a little bit..

Shadow range slow is 10m though. Stun is actually 30m.

 

[KeithTalent]

Good lord, you guys are talking about all kinds of stuff I don't even understand.

Anyone have a class & tree recommendation for a majority solo player? More often than not I will be playing on my own and want to pick a class that will afford me the best chance of doing so.

Thanks.

KT

 

[CVSiN]

Shadow range slow is 10m though. Stun is actually 30m.

actually again since the last time you played they changed ALL Shadow and Sin abilties to 10m or below.

only the Sorc gets 30m range.