**OFFICIAL** Star Wars: The Old Republic Thread

[BenSkywalker]

Uhh there are no rare spawns.. Every spawn is always the same. No placeholders or anything like that.

Random!=Rare

I've done all hard mode FPs and Ops, world bosses and daily heroics. Many of the heroics can even be done solo.

My server while leveling up you would rarely run into other people who were interested to do any planet 4+ heroic. Even finding groups for FPs on the fleet was a challenge.

There is absolutely no point in doing a HM FP once you do an Ops a couple times, and if you are doing HM ops then it's 100% not worth it.

You can try all you want but you are blind if you can't see how single-player oriented the majority of this "MMO" is.

What you need to do to give your gripes so much as a hint of validity is explain how there is anything *more* to do in Rift since you used it as an example. I was there, had multiple HammerKnell toons. Since you used the game as an example in the first place, explain to me how there is more to do in Rift then ToR. You can try and say that I'm blind, but by the sounds of it I have a *lot* more experience in at least one of the examples you used to compare to ToR. Perhaps I'm wrong, so explain it out. To me, it sounds like you are making things up as you go along and have no clue what modern MMO content is like. Honestly I can't think of any modern MMO that has anything more then ToR in terms of the type of multiplayer exclusive content then ToR, perhaps Warhammer's public quest areas? Even then it is only a difference in how groups are constructed, not in the content.

Yep, you can use some of the relics of the early days of MMOs to contrast to ToR, but by modern MMO standards it actually has more multiplayer content then anything close to its vintage.

Guild first last night; we downed Soa in just over 2 hours.

Grats, he's the hardest fight in the game atm- Fourth boss in KP(the droid) is the only thing remotely comparable.

A few of my guildies though have been complaining about how bad the Marauder class is.

It is a very skill dependant class. One of our top DPS is a Marauder who doesn't seem to have a problem besting pretty much everyone else in our guild in 1v1 combat, but he is very good at managing bleeds and timing his interrupts. Honestly not even sure what spec he runs, I know he has a completely different spec for PvP then for PvE.

The Jedi / Sith melee classes just feel a bit weak compared to the heavy-armor troopers and force-bubbling ranged Jedi.

The Assassin is *far* more dangerous then the ranged classes. They have more mitigation, more stuns, more burst damaged and higher sustained damage in any situation besides sitting perfectly still and not getting hit- oh yeah, and they can stealth(although there self healing is lower, it is also in essence unstoppable). I have both AC branches of Inquisitor Op geared- Assassins are *far* more dangerous in almost any situation(AoE being the only huge edge the Sorc has).

 

[HumblePie]

My main toon is a Sent (watchmen spec) and although my opinion of the class once tended to skew towards it being underpowered/broken, I now think, having played with it more, it is a really great class. To be sure, the class has its drawbacks -- especially the lack of any effective AoE (unless you take Focus spec) and a solitary gap-closer -- but you dish out a great deal of damage and, if defensive abilities are utilized correctly, can take a fair deal of punishment over a short period of time. Additionally, the possession of two interrupt abilities allows for the more effective effective enemy attacks/heals to be disrupted.

Although I don't know the Sith counter-parts, Pacify, Awe, Rebuke, Saber Ward, Force Camo, and Guarded by the Force are all defensive abilities that really prolong survivability of a Sentinel. GbtF is not only great for overall survivability but helps in 1v1 confrontations as it gives you 5s of near invulnerability that can be used towards the ends of duels/confrontations. Moreover, with watchmen spec, popping Zen at the correct moment not only ensures your DoTs crit but also provides some nice heals (in pvp I usually get around 40-60k in healing). Finally, Force Camo is a really useful ability to pop as it allows for temporary damage reduction/target-lock break if you're getting burnt down too quickly.

As I am now in the process of leveling a Trooper alt, I agree that, at lower levels, Sents/Maurauders are underpowered and way too squishy; in pve, at least for Sents, this problem is exacerbated by the lack of a healer comp until lvl ~32. Although I am sure some of the difference can be attributed to my increased familiar with the game mechanics, I have breezed through at least 5 battles/encounters with my Trooper that my Sent found incredibly difficult. By mid-30s, however, some of the Sents' deficiencies begin to disappear and the versatility of the class begins to become more evident.

The problem might be that the people against whom you were dueling were not entirely familiar/comfortable with all the different abilities of the class. As I'm hardly a world-beater, I don't want my resort to the 'learn how to play the class' line to come across as glib or supercilious. Given the description you provided of your duels, however, it might have some merit.

Yah, the main reason I even did the duels is because several people were bemoaning the Maurader on my guild's Mumble server. I was like, that isn't right, I know I've fought some decent Sentinels and Maruaders before and they didn't feel underpowered to me. So I thought it would be a good larf to duel a few of them. Some of them had shelved their Marauders for the time being but brought them out. We did some major duelage right outside the space port of Kass. Just testing and trying to look at ways where they may not be playing as best as they could. I had Torhead open and was reading through abilities and most of them knew their various skill rotations to use. Still if they weren't Rage spec, I'd kick their asses pretty good. Or if my cooldowns weren't up.

Basically as an Assassin/tank I think I have more defensive counters to break just about anything they wanted to use on me. I don't think my damage was anywhere near theirs persay, but I was no slouch with it. I can crit shock for almost 4K damage a pop with a few talent points in the relevant talents. Also since I use maul a lot, a position side/back attack, I'm constantly on the move to get into position for my better attacks. This can disrupt attacks coming at me and mess up their timings. Unlike other classes that may just stand in one spot and shoot their range attacks or don't have position abilities.

I still a feel a bit is that I'm a bit more talented at playing this game and pvp in general as opposed to them. I'm certain that makes a bit of difference, but with the massive level differences I figured it would have just been a fun laugh as I got wtfpwned by level 50s as a level 42. That was not the case. While skill made some difference, there were other factors involved as well as to explain the loss and I think now the Marauder is a bit weak now.

 

[s44]

If you'd tried dueling a Marauder with a healer character you might think differently.

Assassins and Snipers just have really good matchups vs. them.

 

[KentState]

If you'd tried dueling a Marauder with a healer character you might think differently.

Assassins and Snipers just have really good matchups vs. them.

I can solo burn down a healer, but two of them together doing their chain heal thing pisses me off to no end. In a civil war round this weekend, I did about 70k damage to a healer and finally gave up. Luckily I had someone healing me at the same time so it was a stalemate.

 

[BenSkywalker]

I can solo burn down a healer

And they need to get nerfed because of the WZ whiners. This, in a nutshell, is everything wrong with MMOs today.

 

[aphelion02]

I can solo burn down a healer, but two of them together doing their chain heal thing pisses me off to no end. In a civil war round this weekend, I did about 70k damage to a healer and finally gave up. Luckily I had someone healing me at the same time so it was a stalemate.

2v2 stalemate? Sounds like its working as intended.

 

[darkewaffle]

Healers in warzones are hit or miss, it's kind of strange. Sometimes I'm almost immortal and sometimes I'm tissue paper. I think it really comes down to what kind of gear the opposing damage dealers have and how much focus you have to deal with. For better or worse (really doesn't matter to me frankly) I think part of the server only PVP queues is that you learn to recognize your opponents, so by now (valor 65ish) my Sorc is a pretty easily picked out of the crowd. At least against other premades, which is of course when I'm squishiest lol.

Marauders while levelling suffer from a low item level:level ratio, but their power and survivability increases substantially with that ratio. Once they get about full champion geared and spec annihilation/watchmen they're a real force to be reckoned with. It's essentially the same reason that anyone in the 1-49 warzones will tell you sorc bubble is overpowered and most good DPS at 50 will say "What bubble?"

Our server held a dual tournament a while ago, the final 8 were almost all assassins and marauders, I think there was one powertech in there.

Also I think there's just as much to do in SWTOR as other games at end game, they just decided to trim a lot of the fat off of 'raiding'. While these first raids are definitely 'easy' (actually we are currently lacking in DPS for hardmode lol) I like the overall approach they've taken. The respawn speeders, the trash reduction, and the relatively high amount of loot per boss (and limited number of bosses) I think are all good features. I like raiding because I don't have to dread the sheer amount of time it's going to consume (unlike Naxxramas, Hyjal, Karazhan).

The only thing really missing are the reputation grinds common to other games which I can't believe anyone would excuse as 'content'. At least I don't see how you could call that content and then complain about Datacrons, which are at least genuinely creative/amusing. There are no achievements either, but again, content that ain't. What SWTOR has at the moment is a fairly lean but complete gaming experience, which I really appreciate.

 

[ArchAngel777]

And they need to get nerfed because of the WZ whiners. This, in a nutshell, is everything wrong with MMOs today.

Yep, I agree. What people fail to realize is that the healer cannot kill you either. So you might might do the same damage as I am able to heal, but you are not taking damage during this time. I don't have any DOTs as a combat medic, so it isn't like I can DOT you while healing myself. This is speaking as a combat medic and by the time I even get your health bar down to 70%, your cool down for a med pack will be up and if not, you will force speed, choke me, etc and run away to the nearest health power-up because I have no way is getting to it faster than you. Then you come back and the process is rinse repeat.

But, people just want to whine because they can't put out more dps than a healer can hps. They shouldn't.

[edit] I am not talking about hybrid spec. That is another matter entirely. They can nerf a hybrid spec without nerfing a pure spec, but instead they chose to do it in reverse for the combat medic. The nerf, IMO, hurts the hybrid spec a lot less than the pure heal spec, which is a shame. As I see it now, hybrid might be optimal, but not for high level PVE healing stuff. 4-man, it might be.

 

[HumblePie]

Yep, I agree. What people fail to realize is that the healer cannot kill you either. So you might might do the same damage as I am able to heal, but you are not taking damage during this time. I don't have any DOTs as a combat medic, so it isn't like I can DOT you while healing myself. This is speaking as a combat medic and by the time I even get your health bar down to 70%, your cool down for a med pack will be up and if not, you will force speed, choke me, etc and run away to the nearest health power-up because I have no way is getting to it faster than you. Then you come back and the process is rinse repeat.

But, people just want to whine because they can't put out more dps than a healer can hps. They shouldn't.

[edit] I am not talking about hybrid spec. That is another matter entirely. They can nerf a hybrid spec without nerfing a pure spec, but instead they chose to do it in reverse for the combat medic. The nerf, IMO, hurts the hybrid spec a lot less than the pure heal spec, which is a shame. As I see it now, hybrid might be optimal, but not for high level PVE healing stuff. 4-man, it might be.

I don't have a problem with any single healer at all. It's when you get a team full of healers and the various objectives that is what matters. NONE of the warzones are based around the most kills. Winning is objective based, and objectives are easier to accomplish the longer you stay alive. There in lies the problem with healers in PVP, specifically warzones, right now. You plop 3 healers each on 2 towers in Alderan and you aren't taking that point. Ever. if 6 out of the 8 are healers then the other two don't matter. There is no stopping them. Same thing when it comes to huttball. Chain heal the ball carrier and CC everything else. No need to kill the other team at all. 8 sorcs/sages on a team and it's GG.

Voidstar is a little different. But 8 sorcs/sages can win. Again, massive CC allows them to mez the other team over and over. AoE's keep players from planting bombs. Healing keeps them from dying. They don't need to focus at all on killing on the warzones. A full team of sorcs/sages that is coordinated is going to win and do so without a single kill. They don't need to. That is the problem in a nutshell.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I don't have a problem with any single healer at all. It's when you get a team full of healers and the various objectives that is what matters. NONE of the warzones are based around the most kills. Winning is objective based, and objectives are easier to accomplish the longer you stay alive. There in lies the problem with healers in PVP, specifically warzones, right now. You plop 3 healers each on 2 towers in Alderan and you aren't taking that point. Ever. if 6 out of the 8 are healers then the other two don't matter. There is no stopping them. Same thing when it comes to huttball. Chain heal the ball carrier and CC everything else. No need to kill the other team at all. 8 sorcs/sages on a team and it's GG.

Voidstar is a little different. But 8 sorcs/sages can win. Again, massive CC allows them to mez the other team over and over. AoE's keep players from planting bombs. Healing keeps them from dying. They don't need to focus at all on killing on the warzones. A full team of sorcs/sages that is coordinated is going to win and do so without a single kill. They don't need to. That is the problem in a nutshell.

If you have 6 healers and 2 DPS, you aren't going to take over a node in Civil war either. If you start with two nodes, you will keep them yes. But if you only have one of them, you are not going to get that second one.

Voidstar you will be perfect with defence, but unable to mount an offense due to low DPS - stalemate.

Since you mentioned an 8 man sorc team, that would indicate they are probably hybrid. They can DPS and Heal pretty decently. So an 8 man sorc team is probably one of the best. But, I never encountered such a team.

I'd think any 8 man team would be pretty good, to be honest.

 

[JoshGuru7]

I don't have a problem with any single healer at all. It's when you get a team full of healers and the various objectives that is what matters... You plop 3 healers each on 2 towers in Alderan and you aren't taking that point. Ever.

So if you don't have a problem with a single healer, and there are two other DPS in your group (who can each also kill a single healer), what prevents you from killing the three healers at the side? The answer is teamwork.

The healers have it easy because most of them will just be looking at the ops window and healing whoever has low health. It is more difficult for you to coordinate as a damage dealer and thus even in geared 50 pre-made contests I see enormous room for improvement. I imagine that a lot of your frustration comes from attacking healers who are being guarded or healed by others when your teammates are not working together as well as they should. Shouldn't you be losing in that case?

 

[KentState]

So if you don't have a problem with a single healer, and there are two other DPS in your group (who can each also kill a single healer), what prevents you from killing the three healers at the side? The answer is teamwork.

The healers have it easy because most of them will just be looking at the ops window and healing whoever has low health. It is more difficult for you to coordinate as a damage dealer and thus even in geared 50 pre-made contests I see enormous room for improvement. I imagine that a lot of your frustration comes from attacking healers who are being guarded or healed by others when your teammates are not working together as well as they should. Shouldn't you be losing in that case?

A valid point, albeit impossible to have that level of coordination in a PUG. You would ne ed to have voice chat available in game and then have everyone using it. As it stands, by the time you identify who is what in these situations, you are close to dead and getting the other dps to switch to help quickly is difficult. I've been in very few PUG groups that even mark players which is the very first step in combating healers. Overall, there are a lot of problems in PvP that I've experienced lately in winning 3 out of 30 matches. I'm really looking forward to 1.2 in hopes that games a little more balanced and enjoyable.

 

[ArchAngel777]

A valid point, albeit impossible to have that level of coordination in a PUG. You would ne ed to have voice chat available in game and then have everyone using it. As it stands, by the time you identify who is what in these situations, you are close to dead and getting the other dps to switch to help quickly is difficult. I've been in very few PUG groups that even mark players which is the very first step in combating healers. Overall, there are a lot of problems in PvP that I've experienced lately in winning 3 out of 30 matches. I'm really looking forward to 1.2 in hopes that games a little more balanced and enjoyable.

You guys think it is easy to heal? You can't just look at OPS window. Granted, you do look at that bar a lot, but you have to see where someone is to see if they are going to LOS you and thus cancel your heal. You have to chase some targets that keep moving behind objects when you are trying to heal them. Pretty frustrating at times.

When I play my Vanguard tank in PVP it is much more focused on one person and switching targets where needed. I think it is far simplier and much less complex to play DPS or a tank in PVP.

And in PVP healers were NOT overpowered, not even Combat medics. I had a sentinal (maurader actually, since with) troll me last night in a WZ and without guard, I cannot even defend 1vs1 against him. He killed me over and over. I can pull out all stops and last maybe a 1 minute, but he will down me. Without my cooldowns, I can last maybe 25 seconds. Now, come 1.2, I hear they are buffed and the combat medic is nerfed... I guess I will die even sooner.

Not to mention Mauraders and Sentinel's most frequently top the DPS Charts on all the warzones that I play. I guess I didn't see how they needed a buff. Everyone was complaining about tracer missile BH and Grav round commandos but the real damage freaks are mauraders and sentinal and while they have to be in melee range, the game gives them opportunies to close the gap every few seconds. Very frustrating class to play against.

 

[KentState]

And in PVP healers were NOT overpowered, not even Combat medics. I had a sentinal (maurader actually, since with) troll me last night in a WZ and without guard, I cannot even defend 1vs1 against him. He killed me over and over. I can pull out all stops and last maybe a 1 minute, but he will down me. Without my cooldowns, I can last maybe 25 seconds. Now, come 1.2, I hear they are buffed and the combat medic is nerfed... I guess I will die even sooner.

What server was this on? There were a couple AT repub guildies on last night and I pretty much said screw the objective and just chased them around.

 

[ArchAngel777]

What server was this on? There were a couple AT repub guildies on last night and I pretty much said screw the objective and just chased them around.

Kathol Rift.

 

[TheUnk]

What you need to do to give your gripes so much as a hint of validity is explain how there is anything *more* to do in Rift since you used it as an example.

I never used it as an example. You must be mixing me up with another person.

 

[JoshGuru7]

You guys think it is easy to heal? You can't just look at OPS window. Granted, you do look at that bar a lot, but you have to see where someone is to see if they are going to LOS you and thus cancel your heal. You have to chase some targets that keep moving behind objects when you are trying to heal them. Pretty frustrating at times.

When I play my Vanguard tank in PVP it is much more focused on one person and switching targets where needed. I think it is far simplier and much less complex to play DPS or a tank in PVP.

I would say that each advanced class has a different difficulty level but that playing them really well requires a lot of skill across roles. When I play the vanguard mirror there are just as many things to keep track of:
- Controlling the objective
- Interrupting and killing my primary target, who will likely be moving around trying to get separation
- Keeping my allies alive, which involves shifting guard to the target being focus fired by the enemy. Identifying their two highest DPS players and alternating taunts between them.
- Keeping myself alive through well time cooldowns and meds.
- Interrupting secondary targets with grapple, stun, AOE stun, DFA while still staying on the primary target

Doing all of these at the same time well is far more challenging than playing my four button sorc healer, slightly more challenging than playing my merc healer, and about equally challenging to playing my operative healer.

 

[ArchAngel777]

I would say that each advanced class has a different difficulty level but that playing them really well requires a lot of skill across roles. When I play the vanguard mirror there are just as many things to keep track of:
- Controlling the objective
- Interrupting and killing my primary target, who will likely be moving around trying to get separation
- Keeping my allies alive, which involves shifting guard to the target being focus fired by the enemy. Identifying their two highest DPS players and alternating taunts between them.
- Keeping myself alive through well time cooldowns and meds.
- Interrupting secondary targets with grapple, stun, AOE stun, DFA while still staying on the primary target

Doing all of these at the same time well is far more challenging than playing my four button sorc healer, slightly more challenging than playing my merc healer, and about equally challenging to playing my operative healer.

I think this varies from person to person. The things you mentioned seem instinctively eaiser for me than being a combat medic. Both my Vanguard Tank and Commando specced for DPS were easier to play in all aspects [for me].

But that goes back to the subjective view of 'what is a good healer?' or 'what is a good tank?' for all I know you are a crappy healer and a great tank. Maybe I am a crappy tank and great healer? Could be why we view different classes as being easier than others.

 

[darkewaffle]

If you only use four buttons on your sorc, there's your problem :awe:

They do have fewer abilities to manage, but I think unlike other classes (speaking from Powertech and Marauder perspective) theirs are [almost?] all useful in a wide array of PvE or PvP situations. Whereas PT has a few throw-away/highly situational skills like Missile Blast, Flame Sweep, Kolto Overload, and Explosive Dart. Marauder... well marauder is in a class of it's own. But Sweeping Slash, Retaliation, Force Scream, and Smash are pretty situational at best.

 

[KentState]

If you only use four buttons on your sorc, there's your problem :awe:

They do have fewer abilities to manage, but I think unlike other classes (speaking from Powertech and Marauder perspective) theirs are [almost?] all useful in a wide array of PvE or PvP situations. Whereas PT has a few throw-away/highly situational skills like Missile Blast, Flame Sweep, Kolto Overload, and Explosive Dart. Marauder... well marauder is in a class of it's own. But Sweeping Slash, Retaliation, Force Scream, and Smash are pretty situational at best.

What sucks is I have 3 bars full of stuff to use with many being situational, but my max bindings that I can efficiently reach are 6-8. Don't know how do fix it, but trying to click on buttons in combat is horrible, especially if you lose the pointer.

 

[darkewaffle]

Yea, my main binds are basically 1-6 and Shift 1-6 as well as Q, E, R, F and T and my side mouse buttons (along with shift + of all those). Works great for sorc but PT is somewhat limited, especially when you account for trinkets/consumables. Not sure what else I can add yet since I don't like Alt and Ctrl is my push to talk so I like leaving that out of the equation.

 

[Nizology]

Yea, my main binds are basically 1-6 and Shift 1-6 as well as Q, E, R, F and T and my side mouse buttons (along with shift + of all those). Works great for sorc but PT is somewhat limited, especially when you account for trinkets/consumables. Not sure what else I can add yet since I don't like Alt and Ctrl is my push to talk so I like leaving that out of the equation.

Shift is the ideal modifier for me as well. 6-0 are reserved for situationals.Alt is just plain awkward to use as a modifier.

 

[Worthington]

you can always use something like KeyTweaker and make a more easily accessable button "alt". I use the arrow keys for movement and re-tasked the context key to alt. So, my pinky can easily hit all 3 mod keys.

 

[s44]

I've bound the function keys, insert del etc. (my keyboard has a double row of these).

Then again, I'm a mouse-driving lefty so YMMV.

 

[SunnyD]

Ding 50.

/queue for warzone
/pop queue
/look at entire team

"Holy shit, everybody has at least 6000 more HP than I do. "