***OFFICIAL SUPERBOWL XLVIII Thread***

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gorcorps

aka Brandon
Jul 18, 2004
30,739
452
126
Only idiots will blame Manning. It's not like he snapped the ball himself for that safety, or that his o-line was worth a crap, or he didn't break the superbowl record for completed passes... The QB gets way too much attention from idiots.

If denver played in the NFC West, they'd have been 9-7 or 8-8.

Guess we'll find out next year since the AFC west is playing the NFC west. Denver will get Seattle again as well as SF and AZ.

I feel a little bad for the raiders... they have to play the NFC West AND KC, Denver, and SD twice
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
And then Denver didn't have to respect the run and could just play pass. It didn't end well for NE.

What I'm saying is that with a guy like Lynch, there is always a danger. You can't stop playing the run with him as a factor. That's what a good RB does, he adds another variable to what the defense has to account for. Having to keep extra guys in the box to stop the run frees up your receivers.

Its not always about stats guys. Please try to remember that.

I would agree with that, a guy like Lynch always has the possibility of turning a routine off-tackle run into a huge gain so that has to be respected but overall Denver's run D wasn't bad but just about everything else was..
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
And then Denver didn't have to respect the run and could just play pass. It didn't end well for NE.

What I'm saying is that with a guy like Lynch, there is always a danger. You can't stop playing the run with him as a factor. That's what a good RB does, he adds another variable to what the defense has to account for. Having to keep extra guys in the box to stop the run frees up your receivers.

Its not always about stats guys. Please try to remember that.

Yep. Look at the Minnesota game Freeman started. They knew AP was the threat and stacked the box every single down with 8 guys. Lynch is an impact player they have to always play against.

Denver's plan was to force Wilson to throw. Unfortunately for them, they didn't seal the edges and Wilson had room to move around AND their DBs got burned.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
I would agree with that, a guy like Lynch always has the possibility of turning a routine off-tackle run into a huge gain so that has to be respected but overall Denver's run D wasn't bad but just about everything else was..

That's what I was saying. You can hit the guy in the backfield for a 4 yard loss and all of the sudden he's 25 yards down the field. So you account for him and then Wilson runs one for 20 yards. Now you have at least 2 guys that can't rush or play pass coverage, they have to key on those 2 the entire play.

Playing with only 8 or 9 guys is going to make any defense look bad.
 

BUTCH1

Lifer
Jul 15, 2000
20,433
1,769
126
So I suppose we have lots of excuses for P. Manning too then. :whiste:

No excuses, just football reality, if you manage to get pressure on a QB even a great one will start hurrying throws and making mistakes, Manning, Brady, Brees, Rogers, I've seen them all do it..
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Yep. Look at the Minnesota game Freeman started. They knew AP was the threat and stacked the box every single down with 8 guys. Lynch is an impact player they have to always play against.

Denver's plan was to force Wilson to throw. Unfortunately for them, they didn't seal the edges and Wilson had room to move around AND their DBs got burned.

And then.....then Wilson will really fuck you.

He will take off to the outside and as soon as your DB comes up, he will throw it to the receiver the DB dropped.

How do you stop that?
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Manning sucked hard in the game. He alone makes the halftime adjustments (known fact). The fact is, Denver is terrible in the first half of games (defense and offense). Manning is the only reason they got as far as they did. Hell, the Chiefs and Chargers are a more complete "team" than the Broncos.

Oh, it's also widely know that Manning calls the shots and gameplay for all upcoming offense schemes in the preparation for games.

Manning gets 2 plays to pick from every down. They come from the OC. He does NOT "run" the offense, other than on the field.
Does he have a big hand in it? I'm sure, but he's not calling the shots, other than choosing which play to run and what variation of it based on what he sees from a defense......you know, the same thing every other good NFL QB does. Manning isn't doing anything Brady doesn't do.

He's not smarter than Brady, as evidenced by Brady's 33 and Manning's 28 on the Wonderlic.
He's not even smarter than Eli, who got a 39.

What he is, is damned diligent and has one hell of a work ethic.....but so does Brady. Brady shows up early, and his coaches have said that when he asks a question, he already knows the answer and they'd damn well better know it.

I just have never gotten the fascination with Peyton's film study and knowledge of his offense....like no other QB studies film and knows their offense. All the great ones do.

I think he just has that sort of appeal to the average person...probably because he's not a good-looking guy. He looks like he could have been Gomer Pyle....yet he's a lot smarter than he looks. So people look at him before they know him and don't immediately think he's smart, then he fools them. People in general like that.

Whereas Brady has movie star looks, bangs super models, and is just overall Mr. Smooth. And he wins like crazy, AND his coach is a dick, which sort of gives the team that rep. People don't like that....seemingly arrogant guys that are good-looking and also awesome at what they do.
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Manning gets 2 plays to pick from every down. They come from the OC. He does NOT "run" the offense, other than on the field.
Does he have a big hand in it? I'm sure, but he's not calling the shots, other than choosing which play to run and what variation of it based on what he sees from a defense......you know, the same thing every other good NFL QB does. Manning isn't doing anything Brady doesn't do.

He's not smarter than Brady, as evidenced by Brady's 33 and Manning's 28 on the Wonderlic.
He's not even smarter than Eli, who got a 39.

What he is, is damned diligent and has one hell of a work ethic.....but so does Brady. Brady shows up early, and his coaches have said that when he asks a question, he already knows the answer and they'd damn well better know it.

I just have never gotten the fascination with Peyton's film study and knowledge of his offense....like no other QB studies film and knows their offense. All the great ones do.

I think he just has that sort of appeal to the average person...probably because he's not a good-looking guy. He looks like he could have been Gomer Pyle....yet he's a lot smarter than he looks. So people look at him before they know him and don't immediately think he's smart, then he fools them. People in general like that.

Whereas Brady has movie star looks, bangs super models, and is just overall Mr. Smooth. And he wins like crazy, AND his coach is a dick, which sort of gives the team that rep. People don't like that....seemingly arrogant guys that are good-looking and also awesome at what they do.

Somebody really loves Brady... get off that guy's nuts already. He isn't that great.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Yep. Look at the Minnesota game Freeman started. They knew AP was the threat and stacked the box every single down with 8 guys. Lynch is an impact player they have to always play against.

Denver's plan was to force Wilson to throw. Unfortunately for them, they didn't seal the edges and Wilson had room to move around AND their DBs got burned.

Yep, a QB like Wilson is the ideal QB, IMO. He's deadly accurate. Remember, he played baseball, and in college even pitched a bit. His arm strength is ridiculous. I mean just ridiculous.
He's smart, and he's really fast. Not Michael Vick fast, but a linebacker isn't going to run him down. Only a DB.

He's the ideal combination of smarts, arm strength, accuracy, and speed. Really about the only thing you can criticize is his size....he's never been injury-prone (other than as a freshman) but since he's smaller maybe that might be an issue in the future...who knows? He's already paid off for Seattle, though.
 

Pacfanweb

Lifer
Jan 2, 2000
13,149
57
91
Somebody really loves Brady... get off that guy's nuts already. He isn't that great.

Ahh...a Brady hater.

I love me some Joe Montana. Brady is just as good. Sorry, but he is. There is no expert, anywhere that would argue Brady isn't right up there. I even hated the dude for awhile, but he's just a damned surgeon on the field.
 

rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
Ahh...a Brady hater.

I love me some Joe Montana. Brady is just as good. Sorry, but he is. There is no expert, anywhere that would argue Brady isn't right up there. I even hated the dude for awhile, but he's just a damned surgeon on the field.

He's also a cry baby, which makes the whole team look bad.

He has good numbers but can't deal with stress. Any professional quarterback that literally throws a tantrum on the field loses all of my respect. I'd take Tebow over Brady's preschool bullshit.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,163
12,477
136
Tom Brady IS a damned good quarterback. No one can deny that. Hell, PFM is a fabulous QB too...but when they don't have receivers who can get free and make catches, they might as well just be throwing at the swinging tire...and when the defense in constantly in their faces...they make mistakes.

San Fransissy managed to put Wilson on his back numerous times in the 3 games they played this year...Denver only got to him once.

While PFM gets the blame for the loss as the "figurehead" of the team...and as the offensive captain, the loss is NOT PFM's fault...that blame goes to the entire team...and coaching staff. (and to Seattle's defense for keeping the Denver O line contained.)
 

smackababy

Lifer
Oct 30, 2008
27,024
79
86
Ahh...a Brady hater.

I love me some Joe Montana. Brady is just as good. Sorry, but he is. There is no expert, anywhere that would argue Brady isn't right up there. I even hated the dude for awhile, but he's just a damned surgeon on the field.

Um, no. I don't hate Brady, but he is nowhere in the same league has Montana. He might as well be playing in the CFL compared to Montana. Montana has never lost a Super Bowl, was a part of "the catch", defeated Dan Marino, Steve Young, and John Elway. 29 4th quarter comebacks, 3 Super Bowl MVPs, and the Montana to Rice connection.
 

BoomerD

No Lifer
Feb 26, 2006
64,163
12,477
136
Wilson has as many Super Bowl wins as Manning. I'm so happy for that kid and hope he keeps doing well.

While that's not a very accurate metric for comparing QB's, it's still a fun one...a second year rookie with as many Super Bowl wins as a 15 year elite veteran QB...

If he continues to play like he has the past two years, Wilson is gonna be expensive to keep when his rookie contract expires.

He's currently the lowest-paid player on the Seahawks roster...
 

SP33Demon

Lifer
Jun 22, 2001
27,928
142
106
Really, your football knowledge is better than mine? I've been watching since 1966, you?. Stats can be deceiving but if you look at this season by itself Brady winning 12 games with one reliable receiver, no downfield threat, and a crippled defense that routinely let guys like Cleveland's backup (Campbell) have career outings against them speaks for itself, the guy just knows how to win, period. If you hate Brady for some reason or other that's fine and your entitled to your opinion but he IS the best QB in the league right now, please describe what "metric" a fucking genius like yourself uses to evaluate who is the best..

Saying Brady is the best in 2013 is fucking ridiculous. Going by PFF's vaunted and widely accepted advanced metrics:

Quarterback rating: Offering an alternative to the out-dated standard, we take into account dropped passes, throw aways, spikes, and yards in the air and further adjust the old formula so it makes more sense and is a more accurate measure.
Brady #10.

Accuracy rating:
The formula: ((Completions + Drops) / (Attempts - Throw Aways - Spikes - Batted Passes - Hit As Thrown))
Brady tied for 13th with RGIII and Cam Newton.

Deep passing of 20yds or more:
Brady #13

Under pressure:
Brady #20 of 26 with big names like Chad Henne, Carson Palmer, EJ Manual and Ryan Tannehill doing better.

Cumulative grading for 2013 which includes passing, rushing, and penalties:
Brady #8 at +16.3.
For reference, Peyton #1 was +43.3.


Best quarterback in 2013? hahaha. He's above average without pressure. With pressure, he's not even average anymore.

Now, let's see your "metrics" that support your preposterous assertion for Brady.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
this is really sad to say...

but I think the halftime show was the best part of the game. And I'm not a Bruno fan..

The game was boring
The commericals sucks
There was zero nipple

Bruno owned the night!


you are a bad person. Jack Bauer was obviously the best part of the game!

 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Imho two things happened :

#1 - Denver's schedule had them playing a good number of weaker teams (even my mediocre Cowboys!), which led to a somewhat inflated sense of how good Denver actually was.

and ..

#2 - EVERYBODY (well, it seems like everybody, particularly in the sports media) would go on and on and on and on and on about how Denver was the best ever, Manning was flawless, they were unstoppable, etc. It seems like they might have started to believe their own press, which is a dangerous thing. It's like they came onto the field only feeling like they had to physically show up to the game in order to get those rings and that trophy, when in fact they should have showed up ready to play a tough game.

If they were mentally set for it, I think they could have made it a game. And for that, I put the highest level of blame at the coaching staff of Denver. The message should have been :

"Forget everything anyone has said about us. We are 0-0 headed into this game. We are getting ready to play a team that has a wild hunger and tons of talent who will play at 110% every single play. We need to play at 115%. Those tricks we use to confuse the defenses aren't going to be enough here. We simply have to be faster, stronger, and have more heart to make our stand, and to claw for those yards."

Instead, we saw a game plan shatter completely in the first few minutes, followed by a systemic failure to make any adjustments at all. Nobody emerged as a leader, nobody adjusted, and even more mistakes were made flailing around on the field like a bunch of flabby drunks posing as NFL players. It was the most complete beating I've ever seen in the postseason.

Nobody can take away the Seahawk's supreme performance, but I still feel like a truly jacked up ready to play Broncos team could have made that a 34-23 kind of game instead of a complete annihilation. Even the sole Bronco's touchdown looked like charity, haha.


:thumbsup: spot-on I'd say. I've been railing on Denver since about the 1st quarter now, but that's the thing--it's not to take away how good Seattle played and that they clearly outplayed the broncos and probably would have won yesterday regardless of any changes--it's that Denver also underperformed to a very large degree. They truly looked unprepared. a botched snap safety on the first play isn't all that bad--but The entire team (well, except for the Denver D--I think they deserve some praise for their first half performance) played shocked and confused after that moment.

Think back to the Superbowl that Peyton won, against the Chicago Bears. That game opened with a Devin Hester kickoff return for a TD--far more devastating that a safety. That was also a very good defensive team in the Bears, and this Denver team is 10x the offense of that Colts team that didn't buckle.

....wtf happened? I bet Manning and Elway took a red eye to wherever Dungy lives and they are currently on their knees begging him to come out of retirement.
 
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zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
He had a horrible game. I'm not sure which one you all were watching, but without that 1 carry for 18 yards he rushed 14 times for 21 yards. That's 1.5 yards a carry. Complete and total trash game from him in the Super Bowl against a horrible defense. :|

another credit to Denver's D--they definitely did their job, keying on Lynch all day. If you remember, there were no less than 3 guys on him whenever he touched the ball. To Lynch's credit, of course, he still managed a few yards on every gang tackle, because he is awesome...but Denver D really stepped it up to contain him.

At least some part of that team followed their gameplan.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Guess we'll find out next year since the AFC west is playing the NFC west. Denver will get Seattle again as well as SF and AZ.

I feel a little bad for the raiders... they have to play the NFC West AND KC, Denver, and SD twice

Oh man, such awesome football coming up this season. can not wait.

The two best divisions from last year going at it? good stuff.
 

Childs

Lifer
Jul 9, 2000
11,313
7
81
Special teams were a mess and Holiday was terrible. He either made some miserable reads trying to return, is far more confident in his abilities than he should be, or Seattles coverage was just *THAT* freaking good. Whatever the case, nearly every time he was better off just taking a knee.

Seattle uses some of their defensive starters to cover returns. It almost cost them when Chancellor got hurt, but the obvious benefit is you get defensive starter level tackling and speed on returns.

What I'm saying is that with a guy like Lynch, there is always a danger. You can't stop playing the run with him as a factor. That's what a good RB does, he adds another variable to what the defense has to account for. Having to keep extra guys in the box to stop the run frees up your receivers.

Its not always about stats guys. Please try to remember that.

Yeah, later in games is when he gets his yards, and he was starting to put together some good runs before they pulled him. SF had him bottled up for 3 1/2 quarters before he broke his big run. Beast Mode works best in the 4th quarter. Denver did well tackling him though. A few times that one Denver guy took him down without help.
 
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MetalMat

Diamond Member
Jun 14, 2004
9,687
36
91
another credit to Denver's D--they definitely did their job, keying on Lynch all day. If you remember, there were no less than 3 guys on him whenever he touched the ball. To Lynch's credit, of course, he still managed a few yards on every gang tackle, because he is awesome...but Denver D really stepped it up to contain him.

At least some part of that team followed their gameplan.

It was similar to the 1st game New Orleans played against Seattle. They did a good job of containing Lynch but spent so much effort worrying about him that Wilson and his merry band of receivers carved them up.
 

IndyColtsFan

Lifer
Sep 22, 2007
33,655
687
126
Um, no. I don't hate Brady, but he is nowhere in the same league has Montana. He might as well be playing in the CFL compared to Montana. Montana has never lost a Super Bowl, was a part of "the catch", defeated Dan Marino, Steve Young, and John Elway. 29 4th quarter comebacks, 3 Super Bowl MVPs, and the Montana to Rice connection.

:thumbsup:

The NFL of yesteryears was much, much different than the NFL today and may be part of the reason I'm starting to lose interest. Here are some of the major differences:

1. You could actually hit QBs then without getting called for ridiculous penalties all the time.
2. The defenses could actually rough up receivers without getting called for ridiculous penalties.
3. The NFL was smaller then so therefore, the talent pool wasn't as diluted as it is today. Think about it -- we have 200+ more guys playing pro football now than would have played in the 80s due to the addition of 4 franchises. (My memory is failing me, but I believe the NFL also increased the roster size at least once since then).

Montana was the best of the best in what was at least one of, if not the only, golden eras of the NFL. He was drafted in 79 IIRC but had to play on a regular basis against the vaunted class of 83 (and that's just for starters!). Look at the defenses he played against -- the Bears and Giants were probably better than any defense today and he played them for years. The Redskins weren't slouches either!

Montana would not have lost SB 42 or SB 44. Brady and Manning lost those games.
 
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rudeguy

Lifer
Dec 27, 2001
47,351
14
61
you've crossed a line. You know that even you don't believe this!


Seriously...I hate that guy. Before this year I had no opinion, didn't really like him or not like him. But the tantrums he threw on the field and sideline fixed that.

To me, character means more than anything.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,131
30,082
146
Um, no. I don't hate Brady, but he is nowhere in the same league has Montana. He might as well be playing in the CFL compared to Montana. Montana has never lost a Super Bowl, was a part of "the catch", defeated Dan Marino, Steve Young, and John Elway. 29 4th quarter comebacks, 3 Super Bowl MVPs, and the Montana to Rice connection.

Here's the thing about the Montana argument (and I agree-I think he is certainly the best ever)--there is no metric and no stat that rate's Montana's abilities without the involvement of Jerry Rice.

So...you've got what many consider the best QB ever, an argument for the best player, working with the player that many more consider to be the best football player ever. ....Wonder what a Montana career would have looked like with, say, someone like Chad Johnson (all the skills, but fizzles out quickly) or even the scrubs that Wilson threw to all year?

That goes both ways, of course: What is Jerry Rice's career like without the greatest QB of all time throwing to him?
 
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