OFFICIAL Survivor: Heroes v. Villains Thread (starting Feb. 11, 2010)

[Greenman]

She was not deserving. The name of the game is to outwit, outplay and outlast and the person who does it best should win the game. Not some sniveling coat tail rider.

But at the end of the game you have to face the people you climbed over to get there, that's the catch. Sandra wasn't as objectionable as the other two. Russel can't win because he doesn't know how to play the game. He knows how to lie, and he's a pretty good bully, that's enough to get you to the end, but not enough to win. I don't understand why anyone can't grasp such a simple concept, and such a fundamental part of the game.

 

[cronos]

He's a double-edged sword. To keep him around assures you have a better chance competing against him in the finals. But then again, you don't really keep Russell around, he keeps you around.

Before that final episode I would think the same thing, but after watching how it unfolded, I'm not so sure. Did you see how Sandra played him perfectly with "I don't care, I'll never win the million so I'll take the 100k so just take me to the final three with you. Who do you want me to take out?".

The girls have been playing him like a cheap fiddle, he (and the viewers, because of the information withheld from us for entertainment's sake) just didn't know it.

 

[purbeast0]

For those saying Russel's social game sucks is dead wrong. He made so many alliances, back stabbed so many people, and yet STILL was able to get people to trust him late in the game. You need good social skills for that. Does he suck at ass kissing? yes. Was he arrogant? yes. But then again, he deserved it. I am convinced that the best strategy in this show is to be a non threat. So many people have won that way. Sandra even claims that was her strategy.

yes but towards the end of the game, people WANT him around because they know that nobody likes him and he won't get votes in the end.

there is a point in the game where it goes from wanting to get people out because they are a threat strategically and physically, to wanting to keep them because they've been a dick to so many people and you realize they won't get any jury votes.

i'm SURE there were hours upon hours where we didn't see people on camera talking crap about russel and how he is a snake.

 

[purbeast0]

I'd like to see a national poll of some kind and see what % thought Sandra deserved to win. I bet it would be no higher than 30%. Still can't believe they voted for her, or that anyone could make the case for her winning over Pavarti and Russel.

ps I heard Russel is signed to do Dancing With the Stars - Don't know how he'll do but glad he's still getting spotlight. Can't imagine dancing is one of his strong suites. I've never seen the show either.

it does not matter one bit what viewers who watched what, 15 hours of an actual show where people were together for 40 days, think about who should or shouldn't win.

we see only what CBS wants us to see and nothing more. we have no clue what stuff happens behind the camera.

that is why i think it is really unfair for viewers to say who 'should' have won, because in reality, we don't know much about what went on over there.

 

[kalrith]

Before that final episode I would think the same thing, but after watching how it unfolded, I'm not so sure. Did you see how Sandra played him perfectly with "I don't care, I'll never win the million so I'll take the 100k so just take me to the final three with you. Who do you want me to take out?".

The girls have been playing him like a cheap fiddle, he (and the viewers, because of the information withheld from us for entertainment's sake) just didn't know it.

Sandra played him earlier in the season as well by telling him that Coach was gunning for him. Because of that Coach was voted off instead of Courtney or Sandra.

 

[Miramonti]

Before that final episode I would think the same thing, but after watching how it unfolded, I'm not so sure. Did you see how Sandra played him perfectly with "I don't care, I'll never win the million so I'll take the 100k so just take me to the final three with you. Who do you want me to take out?".

The girls have been playing him like a cheap fiddle, he (and the viewers, because of the information withheld from us for entertainment's sake) just didn't know it.

Agreed. When it withered down to a tight group, Sandra and Parvati did an outstanding job playing him. Jerri sat back on her laurels and assumed she was going to advance, and as a result didn't work him like the others.

Parvati really deserved to win, but it can't be said that Sandra did nothing. She also baited Russell to vote her out when she had the idol, and earlier she convinced Russell to vote out coach instead of her.

 

[her209]

IT doesn't matter what the public thinks. They weren't on the island. They didn't live with these people or were affected by them. As Probst said to Russel "That's a different show"

The irony of letting the public vote would be that it would actually turn into a popularity contest.

LAWL

 

[Miramonti]

The irony of letting the public vote would be that it would actually turn into a popularity contest.

LAWL

And we know what happens then...breasts prevail.

 

[kalrith]

The irony of letting the public vote would be that it would actually turn into a popularity contest.

LAWL

Yep, and it would make it like every other stupid reality show out there. We might not always agree with what the jury decides, but I think it's a MUCH better method than having America vote, which turns into a popularity contest rather than who actually deserves to win. I've been far more frustrated by whom America chooses to win reality shows than whom the Survivor jury chooses.

If you look back at Survivor: All Stars, Rupert won America's vote (and $1 million). Did he even come close to playing the best game? Absolutely not! If anyone should've won, it should've been Boston Rob for the great game he played, but America voted for their favorite.

Also, if the tribe knew there would be no jury and America would be voting, then that would change the entire season. It's not just the final tribal council that would change. People would be trying to make their confessionals more appealing to America, not caring what their tribe thought of them, etc.

Whether I agree with their decisions or not, having the final 9 sit on a jury to vote for which finalist wins is a quintessential part of Survivor. As Jeff said, without the jury it wouldn't be Survivor, it would be a different show altogether.

 

[MrChad]

Agreed. When it withered down to a tight group, Sandra and Parvati did an outstanding job playing him. Jerri sat back on her laurels and assumed she was going to advance, and as a result didn't work him like the others.

Parvati really deserved to win, but it can't be said that Sandra did nothing. She also baited Russell to vote her out when she had the idol, and earlier she convinced Russell to vote out coach instead of her.

I agree 100 percent. I am disappointed that Parvati did not win, but I can see why after viewing the finale.

The viewers have the benefit of watching events unfold through the producer's perspective. I always got the impression that Parvati was truly the queen bee, that she outplayed everyone around her and stayed protected by managing to keep Russell convinced (until the very end) that she was riding his coattails. To the other players, however, I don't think that really came across and I think they thought she was hiding in Russell's shadow the whole time. Remember, the jury doesn't have the benefit of seeing the one-on-one interviews or the arguments between Russell and Parvati alone.

Given the choice between a perceived underdog (Sandra) and a perceived sycophant to Russell (Parvati), Sandra won out.

 

[FeuerFrei]

After watching the final tribal council where the final 3 got interrogated, I could see Russell's chances of winning evaporate. He only got one compliment on his gameplay from the jury, IIRC. I was kind of surprised he didn't get a single vote though.
No wonder he got riled up after the outcome of the previous season. He knew he wouldn't be winning this season for sure.

I've got a strong feeling that, Russell willing, CBS will invite him back for another season.


I would have voted for Parvati.
Haven't watched the reunion episode yet.

 

[MrChad]

you all saying who "should have won" have absolutely no clue about how this game is played...

just as Jeff said to Russel when he kept making excuses and that he should have won, or if America voted as well, he would have won ... that is a different show, not Survivor.

Agree with this as well. I find Russell highly entertaining, but his strategy is fundamentally flawed. The rules of the game are not just to get to the end, but to get to the end in such a way that your peers will respect you and your decisions. Parvati broke alliances and backstabbed a bunch of times in Fans v. Favorites, but in the end her peers respected her. Her downfall this season was staying too close to Russell, and no one respects the way Russell bullies his way to the end. It is an effective way of staying in the game, and it is entertaining, but it's not a good way of winning Survivor.

 

[MrChad]

Jeff thinks it should have been Parvati as well.

 

[fustercluck]

True that the editing is a big part of the show. The editors can make heroes or villains out of everyone. But, I don't think they could have edited so much as to change the way we saw the game playout. Not like they edited out all the parts where Sandra made great moves. We saw all of her moves. Pavarti made smart moves (such as giving idols to jerri and sandra), played well in challenges, Russel made smart moves (such axing Boston Rob) and was good in challenges. Sandra was just around, maybe the worst at challenges ever like Russel said. But, in the end she's the winner and what's done is done. Still a traveshamockery if you ask me

The challenges had as little to do with the game as they've ever had in any Survivor though, purty surprising.

 

[guyver01]

I am disappointed that Parvati did not win, but I can see why after viewing the finale.

After Sandra pleaded to the Heroes (who made up the majority of the jury, since they were all gone) that she tried and tried and tried to get rid of russel, but they didn't listen to her... i knew she won.

Parvati got the villian votes... Sandra got the Heroes.

With the final 4.. the only way Parvati could have won, was to get rid of Russel instead of Jerri... and hope that Russel votes Parvati, keeping his alliance.

 

[M0RPH]

After Sandra pleaded to the Heroes (who made up the majority of the jury, since they were all gone) that she tried and tried and tried to get rid of russel, but they didn't listen to her... i knew she won.

I have to admit it was a smart tactic on her part. But, the truth is, if she was really a crafty and bold player in the game, she had the perfect opportunity to get Russel voted off. When she had the idol towards the end she could have worked something out with the heroes, giving Rupert the idol.

With the final 4.. the only way Parvati could have won, was to get rid of Russel instead of Jerri... and hope that Russel votes Parvati, keeping his alliance.

That's an interesting thought. I was assuming that if she'd won that challenge, she would have voted off Sandra and gone to final 3 with Russel and Jerri. But is she voted off Russell she could have shown that she was really just using him and throwing him away, distancing herself from him and maybe getting more votes. She still may have lost to Sandra though.

 

[GarfieldtheCat]

We only see what the producers want us to see... there's still a million + hours we dont see... Hell... if Russel ran his mouth the whole time (like Jeff seemed to Imply) like he did during the Reunion Show... i wouldn't vote for him just because he would annoy me to hell with the stupid stories.

Bolded for emphasis. We see what the producers want us to see, we don't see everything.

But still, Parvati >>> Sandra IMHO. Anyone who plays two idols at one setting, with neither being used by her, was probably the best move all season.

 

[ViviTheMage]

Parvati played the game much, much better then Sandra did IMO. Sandra just got lucky she was one of the villains that trailed along.

 

[PricklyPete]

Bolded for emphasis. We see what the producers want us to see, we don't see everything.

But still, Parvati >>> Sandra IMHO. Anyone who plays two idols at one setting, with neither being used by her, was probably the best move all season.

Agreed...I thought it was a very bold move and it panned out perfectly. She read the heroes like a children's book that tribal council. I'm firmly of the opinion that Parvati was the best player out there...but so it goes...apparently the Jury did not feel she was deserving.