Official Swiftboat Thread

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1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: cKGunslinger
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Some people just call them the way they seem them. Kerry served in Vietnam and has been in battle. Who are you to "denigrat" him?? Have you been shot at? Have you even been in the service?
Another LOL. You sure turned this into something personal pretty quickly. Find a single post where I've "denigrated" Kerry, I dare ya. Let me save you some time, you won't. If anything, I support Kerry and his service, and respect him for it, as I do all who served. I can do that without ever having served or being shot at.

My point was that it irresponsible to claim that Kerry's record and reputation are off-limits, while simultaneously bashing anyone who attempts to question him. There are discrepancies regarding both Kerry's service as well as Bush's. Why is one untouchable and the other fodder for all anti-Bush zealots? It is also hypocritical to claim that everyone who opposes your view must only see the world as black & white. What was your point?


Untouchable?? LOL. Who do you think your kidding? WHo said it was untopuchable? You did. I certainly never.

To say "there are discepancies" regarding both records misses the whole point. One volunterred to go to Vietnam, the other didn't. One was in battle, the other wasn't. One came home and spoke out against a horrible war, the other didn't. If you "respect him for it" then let it drop. To say "I respect him for it" is just lip service on your part. Why don't you say "I respect him for volunteering to go to Vietnam and risk his life". I can't hear you?? Why don't you say he was a bigger, better man man the GWB who got himself grounded as his big acheivement? I can't hear you!! You can tell a lie without speaking and you can be denigratory without speaking also. It is in your actions and your little word game replies that I can see it.

All I hear from the right wants to get more records to pick apart. Anybody in their right mind wouldn't release records to a bunch of hateful liars can try to cast more doubt on hisrecord then they have already. Where are all GWB's records? Surley he has more then the 15 pages I can find? U know he didn't do alot, but I know there are some evaluations that aren't on the table. Where are those? I hear there locked up in his Daddy's Presidential library in Texas.
 

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
0
0
LMAO! Somebody, please, PLEASE, tell me that these guys aren't more than 12 years old and can't vote anyway. Please tell me that they aren't really adults representative of today's Democratic party. Tell me they're just juveniles severely overdosed on tic-tacs and M&M's and are just rendering a laughably poor execution of parroting what they think they heard Mommy & Daddy say once.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Format C, good job. You managed not to curse. Here's a tip. When you get red in the face, just take a deep breath.
 

umbrella39

Lifer
Jun 11, 2004
13,816
1,126
126
Originally posted by: Format C:
LMAO! Somebody, please, PLEASE, tell me that these guys aren't more than 12 years old and can't vote anyway. Please tell me that they aren't really adults representative of today's Republican party. Tell me they're just juveniles severely overdosed on tic-tacs and M&M's and are just rendering a laughably poor execution of parroting what they think they heard Mommy & Daddy say once.

All better.

 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit

Untouchable?? LOL. Who do you think your kidding? WHo said it was untopuchable? You did. I certainly never.

To say "there are discepancies" regarding both records misses the whole point. One volunterred to go to Vietnam, the other didn't. One was in battle, the other wasn't. One came home and spoke out against a horrible war, the other didn't. If you "respect him for it" then let it drop. To say "I respect him for it" is just lip service on your part. Why don't you say "I respect him for volunteering to go to Vietnam and risk his life". I can't hear you?? Why don't you say he was a bigger, better man man the GWB who got himself grounded as his big acheivement? I can't hear you!! You can tell a lie without speaking and you can be denigratory without speaking also. It is in your actions and your little word game replies that I can see it.

All I hear from the right wants to get more records to pick apart. Anybody in their right mind wouldn't release records to a bunch of hateful liars can try to cast more doubt on hisrecord then they have already. Where are all GWB's records? Surley he has more then the 15 pages I can find? U know he didn't do alot, but I know there are some evaluations that aren't on the table. Where are those? I hear there locked up in his Daddy's Presidential library in Texas.

Ummm.. way to sidetrack a discussion there. The only reason I jumped into this thread was to question the statement made by Infohawk: You should be ashamed for questioning a Vietnam vet. You denigrate the memory of all those who have served our great country in the last centuries and their ancestors. I didn't say that Kerry's record was untouchable, but obviously someone believes this.

I'm not sure where you got all this "you must love Bush and hate Kerry" ideas from, as you certainly didn't get them from anything I've posted here. I'd be more than willing to 'let it drop,' but it's you and your fellow Kerry supporters who seem to be the ones who continually bring this up. You immediately become defensive and paranoid whenever anyone even attempts to question your stance on an issue. Your instinct seems to be to immediately lash out and assume the questioner is your mortal enemy, bent on destroying you and your ideals with lies.

You ask my why I denigrate Kerry, yet I show where I've done no such thing. You then claim that I've done so by "my actions" and "little word games." Do you not see your own paranoia? You assume too much. Try to stick with the issues, rather than the "I know your kind" spiel. Otherwise, you are just doing a disservice to your position and candidate of choice.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
cKG,

I'm not sure where you got all this "you must love Bush and hate Kerry" ideas from, as you certainly didn't get them from anything I've posted here.

I did look over some of your posts. You never specifically bashed Kerry. You do however bash anyone who who is for him. You critisize anyone who is for Kerry, but I never see you jump on anybody who is for Bush. I didn't see you specifically discussing any issue about the SBVFTT. It seems to me you just read the posts and look for something you can try to pick apart. A little anal retentive, don't you think?

This is the "Official Swiftboat Thread". It is meant to discuss that issue but you just jump in to critisize Kerry supporters for doing exactly what Bush supporters are doing. You call me paranoid? I guess if I am you are as well.

The point is all the questions have been asked and answered. To continue with this charade denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. To wear the "purple heart" bandages, denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. I said earlier in the thread that if you want to continue this crtisism of Kerry on this issue, go get a sizeable number of the vets who want to prusue this matter or let it drop. Otherwise it is just more partisan tactics and IMO that denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. Prove this is an issue or shut up and move to the the "real issues" you claim you want to talk about.

You ask my why I denigrate Kerry, yet I show where I've done no such thing. You then claim that I've done so by "my actions" and "little word games." Do you not see your own paranoia? You assume too much. Try to stick with the issues, rather than the "I know your kind" spiel. Otherwise, you are just doing a disservice to your position and candidate of choice.

I've explained why I think you denigratory. You laugh it off, but have you seved in the military, let alone been shot at? Since you never bothered to answer the question (more word games) I assume you haven't. How can you identify with the Vietnam viets? Let me tell you that the vast majority would like to see this matter dropped and move on. So drop it and move to the issues, or do you feel you ned the last word? I am going to move on. You can ask all the questions you want, but i would suggest looking at the hard facts, then make your mind up and if you want to argue about it then bring up a specific point in stead of crying foul. Here are my last words to you about this subject:

Pot, Kettle, Black.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: 1EZduzit
cKG,

I did look over some of your posts. You never specifically bashed Kerry. You do however bash anyone who who is for him. You critisize anyone who is for Kerry, but I never see you jump on anybody who is for Bush. I didn't see you specifically discussing any issue about the SBVFTT. It seems to me you just read the posts and look for something you can try to pick apart. A little anal retentive, don't you think?
I wouldn't say that I bash anyone who supoorts Kerry. I criticize anyone who posts what I feel to be blantantly wrong or illogical sentiments. I try not to feed trolls, so I try to stick with posters who typically show some semblance of reason. In case you haven't noticed, Bush is the underdog in this forum. I've said it before and I'll say it again, I like an underdog fight. That is why I may seem to be picking on Kerry supporters. I will occasionally reply to an anti-Kerry/pro-Bush post, if it is sufficiently stupid and no one else has jumped all over it (which is rare in this camp).

I do look for something I can pick apart. I'm here to ensure that the anti-Bush majority fights a fair fight by jumping on the the bad posts made against him. There aren't enough of us here that are non-partisan enough to do it. I assue you, if P&N was filled with a majority of rabid Bush supporters who make post-after-post against Kerry, I would be sitting on the other side of the fence, defending him where I could. As it stands, Bush needs help here, so I am doing just that. I'm no martyr, but I do enjoy my position as devil's advocate.

This is the "Official Swiftboat Thread". It is meant to discuss that issue but you just jump in to critisize Kerry supporters for doing exactly what Bush supporters are doing. You call me paranoid? I guess if I am you are as well.
Yes, I jump in whenever I see someone trying to get away a small untruth here or there. I'm not paranoid, I know everyone is against me.

The point is all the questions have been asked and answered. To continue with this charade denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. To wear the "purple heart" bandages, denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. I said earlier in the thread that if you want to continue this crtisism of Kerry on this issue, go get a sizeable number of the vets who want to prusue this matter or let it drop. Otherwise it is just more partisan tactics and IMO that denigrates the rest of the Vietnam vets. Prove this is an issue or shut up and move to the the "real issues" you claim you want to talk about.
If all questions have been answered, why does this thread grow day-by-day? I personally have no ill-will towards Kerry (although I know you won't believe this for some reason) and could care less about his service record. I salute him for bravely defending our country and answering the call of duty, as I do all vets. I have agreed numerous times that those purple-heart bandages were stupid and insulting. I have no desire or need to "prove" any issue. I'm here to argue against fallacies and ignorant partisan statements, nothing more.

I've explained why I think you denigratory. You laugh it off, but have you seved in the military, let alone been shot at? Since you never bothered to answer the question (more word games) I assume you haven't. How can you identify with the Vietnam viets? Let me tell you that the vast majority would like to see this matter dropped and move on. So drop it and move to the issues, or do you feel you ned the last word? I am going to move on. You can ask all the questions you want, but i would suggest looking at the hard facts, then make your mind up and if you want to argue about it then bring up a specific point in stead of crying foul. Here are my last words to you about this subject:

Pot, Kettle, Black.
You obviously haven't explained it well enough. I don't know what your obsession with this is or the relevancy of it, but NO, I have never served in the military and NO, I've never been shot at. I hope this satisfies you. Or do you consider that another "word game"? I've never claimed that I 'identify " with Vietnam vets. This is why I call you paranoid - you seem to pull these ideas from some place other than reality. I am not asking any questions or ignoring any facts. I'm not even discussing the SBVT at all! My only point was to be sure that the original poster above was called out on, what I felt was, a silly statement. In fact, I quoted him again in another thread when he pulled a 180° and praised someone who DID bash our veterans. That's my purpose here - to point out hypocrisy as I see it, to keep the playing field level. If you want to paint a huge "Kerry-hating, veteran-bashing, pro-Bush" sign over my head, then go ahead. I feel that it's disingenuous for you to do so, but what difference does that make? You have assumed that I am against you and it appears that no amount of reasoning will convince you otherwise. So be it.

I agree that this has spun wildly off topic and shall attempt to refrain from posting again. Perhaps I do feel the need to get in the last word, but it's hard not to when your replies make erroneous assumptions and accusations against me, as well as pose questions that you seem to need answered. I've tried my best not to pose any questions in this reply, in hopes that is will cause this OT bicker to die off. I apologize to anyone who has been negatively affected by our off-topic discussions.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Just to re-iterate, I think it's shameful to denigrate a vet's service. Sorry if I wasn't clear.
 

cKGunslinger

Lifer
Nov 29, 1999
16,408
57
91
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Just to re-iterate, I think it's shameful to denigrate a vet's service. Sorry if I wasn't clear.

Meh, I agree with that *mostly.* What about the guy in Iraq that purposely rolled a grenade into his own troop's tent? Should we honor his service? What about anyone who was dishonorably discharged or court-martialed? Do we really have to hold reverence to anyone and everyone who has served in our military? How does "the Dub" fit into all this? He didn't go to Vietnam, but he was in the Guard (some of the time, anyway.) Should his record be untouchable?

It's a mostly sound statement, but surely there are some exceptions or conditions?
 

PELarson

Platinum Member
Mar 27, 2001
2,289
0
0
Originally posted by: Crimson
The letter also criticizes Kerry for trying to change his image from a critic of the war to a war hero.

"After reading the letter," Anderson said, "it kind of got under my skin. I had never come across a situation where someone used my name without my support or approval. It's not a very comforting feeling."
How does this group have any credibility left??[/quote]

So because 1 of 308 don't agree, that just throws the opinion of the other 307 out the window? I love the way the left is so quick to jump on the right for criticizing a 'war hero' like Kerry's service.. but will slash and burn the 300+ Swift Boat Vets.[/quote]

At least 1 more of the 308 signatures was forged.

 

Format C:

Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
1,662
0
0
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Format C, good job. You managed not to curse. Here's a tip. When you get red in the face, just take a deep breath.

How about you keep your tips to yourself okay? If you're unable to do that, which I'm certain you won't be, then I'll be more than happy to give you a few tips of my own.

 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Format C:
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Format C, good job. You managed not to curse. Here's a tip. When you get red in the face, just take a deep breath.

How about you keep your tips to yourself okay? If you're unable to do that, which I'm certain you won't be, then I'll be more than happy to give you a few tips of my own.

I've already heard your tips. I think it led to a vacation last time 'cause you got so red in the face. This will be my last post on this sub-topic since I don't want to turn this thread into a pissing match.
 
Jan 12, 2003
3,498
0
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Kerry's silence speaks volumes


Guest View

John Rudolph

Special to The Augusta Free Press





A few questions about Unfit for Command, by John E. O'Neill ...

1. If this book is a lie and is a total fabrication of John Kerry's Vietnam follies, then why hasn't Kerry filed a libel suit against the author? One would think that such an expose, especially if it is a complete lie, that the exposed subject, Kerry, would have brought this to the attention of his attorney.

As a matter of opinion, I believe that would be Kerry's best approach against this book. Kerry has made a fatal mistake by not taking the appropriate actions necessary to get that book discredited and off the shelves immediately.

Instead, he's making the political mistake of his career by accusing Bush openly in the public eye for not stopping the Swift Boat Veterans For Truth. These actions only make him appear guiltier than ever.

2. Why has www.moveon.org, the Web site most famous for denouncing the Bush administration's actions during this term, taken action to call on the man that they pick on the most to call for an end to the ads that are run by an independent group called Swift Boat Veterans For Truth?

Isn't this the case of the pot calling the kettle black, or more aptly put, the mouse calling the rat a rodent?

How dare this group do such a thing. It violates the very principles of their existence. Sure, they can bash Bush whenever they can, no matter how slanderous, but at the same time, they turn to him for help in bailing out their candidate, who is a poor choice for the Democrats to begin with.

3. Why is John Kerry so desperate to call on President Bush to stop these ads, and even more so, why is Sen. John McCain so adamant in calling for the same thing?

First off, Bush doesn't have too much to say about Swift Boat Veterans For Truth, because he has no ties to them. I have heard that a Republican is funding SBVFT, but where's the solid evidence that the money is coming from the Bush administration?

So, for example, let's say that I was loaded with cash, and decided to offload my wallet into the publication of this now controversial book. Does that make me, a common citizen/registered Republican voter, an instant co-conspirator with the Bush administration? Hardly not. What I do with my money is nobody's business.

And, what about the mysterious Sen. McCain, who at one time during the past election campaign was a bitter enemy of then-presidential candidate George W. Bush, is now supposedly campaigning actively with the president while at the same time is calling for Bush to stop the ads by SBVFT? What does he have to hide? Is there something lurking in his past Vietnam tour of duty that the public should know about?

For example, how did the fire onboard the USS Forrestal in the Gulf of Tonkin off the coast of Vietnam start? Did he accidentally fire the missile that started the flight deck fire, which led to hundreds killed? After all, he was in the cockpit of the plane that launched that missile into another plane.

Perhaps Sen. McCain should remain dormant during this political crisis and remain doing his job as senator while he is still clean. Yes, Sen. McCain, there are people out there asking questions about your own tour of duty in Vietnam. Being a former Forrestal Sailor myself, these questions came up during my tour onboard this fine naval vessel back in 1981. I am still questioning this, just as much as I question your loyalty to the Republican Party.

Unfit For Command seems to maintain a steady and believable course in my views, even though some Swiftees are coming out against the book, and one of them is arguing that certain portions of the book may be contradicting his own accounts. Perhaps the most controversial discussion thus far is Kerry's medal collection, particularly the three Purple Heart medals he obtained during such a short tour.

After all, it seems highly controversial how he could obtain three Purple Heart medals in a four-and-a-half month period, and then suddenly within a matter of a day or two after receiving the third Purple Heart, decide to get out of Vietnam.

Obtaining three Purple Hearts was anyone's ticket out of Vietnam anyway, and we all know that Kerry was against this war even before he stepped foot in theater.

One last question to ponder: Was he there to merely collect medals for his political resume, or is Kerry a true war hero being marred by 250 of his former Swiftees who served with him in the same coastal division? That's a lot of people.

That decision rests with the public. It should not be left up to the president or anyone else in the top of the food chain to have these ads removed that might be speaking the truth.

After all, this is a nation that supports freedom of speech. Kerry should take this one to his attorneys if he feels that he's a victim of libel - not by accusing the president that he's getting someone else to do his "dirty work."

 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
Kerry's silence speaks volumes


Guest View

John Rudolph

Special to The Augusta Free Press

Blah, blah, blah...... more blah, blah, blah....
Not worth wasting the forum space to quote it all. Still searching for one word of truth in the entire thing. Not worth the energy to disect that garbage point by point since it's already been thoroughly discredited by every reputable news source.

Fox doesn't count. It's neither news nor reputable.
 

1EZduzit

Lifer
Feb 4, 2002
11,833
1
0
Originally posted by: xxxxxJohnGaltxxxxx
"Unfit for Command" is #1 on Amazon...too funny. Sign the SF-180, John Rambo.

You think it's funny now, wait untill after the election and see who's laughing.

You might want to think about downsizing your dollar sign, LOL
 

bUnicorn

Junior Member
Sep 5, 2004
2
0
0
Was Kerry in Cambodia for Christmas Eve of '68 ?


Well just maybe he was, Operation Daniel Boone put him there

-------------------------
Kirk out....
BeMeUp Scotty !

Aerospace Engineers build Technologically Advanced Weapons . . .
Civil Engineers build Ground Targets.

His participation in MACV OPS-31 CCS Operations "Daniel Boone" and "Salem House" could easly have placed him in Cambodia in '68 &amp; '69. It would also account for his additional 2 stars on his Vietnam Service Medal, the multiple citations for his Silvar star, the V on the low-level citations for the SS, and records showing him to be present at his base of operations instead of on a mission.
 

robbase29a

Junior Member
Aug 22, 2004
22
0
0
Here's the link. Oh and one more thing.... The swifboat veterans against kerry should be able to tell their part of the story. Especially if the liberal interest groups are allowed to tell theirs. No more double standard. It's called the freedom of speech.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: robbase29a
Here's the link. Oh and one more thing.... The swifboat veterans against kerry should be able to tell their part of the story. Especially if the liberal interest groups are allowed to tell theirs. No more double standard. It's called the freedom of speech.

Libel is still libel. O'Neill has already admitted they were in Cambodia in his 1971 CNN interview alongside Richard Nixon. It may not have been Christmas Day exactly, but it was around Christmas time. Their part of the story is a lie, that's already been proven by members of the Swift Boat Idiots recanting their story, members saying that their signatures had been forged and whatnot. So, as far as I'm concerned, this whole Swiftboat thing is a dead issue. Freedom of speech doesn't include slander and libel. Sorry.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,057
61
91
Originally posted by: robbase29a
Oh and one more thing.... The swifboat veterans against kerry should be able to tell their part of the story. Especially if the liberal interest groups are allowed to tell theirs. No more double standard. It's called the freedom of speech.
They already told "their story." What else would you call their book? :roll:

All of their allegations have also been totally discredited by multiple credible sources. That leaves two options:

1. They can change their stories, further shredding their credibility.

2. They can STFU because it's clear they have nothing truthful to say.

The Not So Swifties are malicious liars. Get over it. :|
 
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