Originally posted by: RottenRob
I smell another viet cong propagandise. Look at his back ground "Junior, 1post, join 9/9/04"
Well prepare, take a lot of effort . To bad, Jane Fonda a big Hanoi fan said (19998)
"I would like to say something ... to men who were in Vietnam, who I hurt, or whose pain I caused to deepen because of things that I said or did. I was trying to help end the killing and the war, but there were times when I was thoughtless and careless about it and I'm ... very sorry that I hurt them. And I want to apologize to them and their families."
All your comment most likly post in " American war crime museum" Hochiminh city (former name Saigon)
Look at what our allias Australia said:
The Viet Cong (called VC) were an irregular force of peasants, farmers and the like who blended into the surroundings because they lived there. They were hard (impossible?) to pick unless they were actually engaged in warlike activity at the time.
They were a tough ruthless enemy who were not afraid to use any means at all, including their women and children, to further their aims.
If you don't believe Viet Vet, Just listen our allias force
For those who want to obtain more info about Viet Vet go here . And don't forget support them
http://www.vnsfvetakerry.com
Besides the controversy over the event itself, there is dispute over why the citation for the medal was reissued twice. Researchers say the double re-issuance is "unheard of" and served to expunge from the record the shooting of an enemy solider in the back and upgrade the signer from an admiral to the secretary of the Navy. The original citation noted Kerry killed the man, but did not use the phrase "while he fled," as does the after-action report.
That deserves an ironic "Heh".You guys don?t actually HAVE to sell the thing!
Just ?carelessly? hide the boxes, ?accidentally? drop them off pallets, ?forget? to stock the ones you have, and then suggest a nice Al Franken or Micheal Moore book as a substitute. Borders wants those recommends, remember?
I don?t care if these Neandertals in fancy suits get mad at me, they aren?t regular customers anyway. Other than ?Left Behind? books, they don?t read. Anything you can do to make them feel unwelcome is only fair. They are the people pushing retailers to cut costs, don?t forget. And they would censor your speech, your books, your music in a heartbeat, so give them a taste of it!
Don?t get mad, get even!
Originally posted by: burnedout
A long thread about dealing with customers looking for "Unfit for Command" from The Borders Books Employee Union Web Site.
[Hat tip: Charles Johnson]
The thread loads slowly, by the way. An excerpt:
That deserves an ironic "Heh".You guys don?t actually HAVE to sell the thing!
Just ?carelessly? hide the boxes, ?accidentally? drop them off pallets, ?forget? to stock the ones you have, and then suggest a nice Al Franken or Micheal Moore book as a substitute. Borders wants those recommends, remember?
I don?t care if these Neandertals in fancy suits get mad at me, they aren?t regular customers anyway. Other than ?Left Behind? books, they don?t read. Anything you can do to make them feel unwelcome is only fair. They are the people pushing retailers to cut costs, don?t forget. And they would censor your speech, your books, your music in a heartbeat, so give them a taste of it!
Don?t get mad, get even!
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Just heard a good line: John F. Kerry has talked longer about Vietnam than he actually spent there.
Hahahaha.
Originally posted by: Riprorin
Just heard a good line: John F. Kerry has talked longer about Vietnam than he actually spent there.
Hahahaha.
Originally posted by: Gravity
New swiftvet ad is out. Oh my!!!
Washington ? The U.S. navy's chief investigator concluded Friday procedures were followed properly in the approval of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals, an internal navy memo states.
Vice-Admiral R.A. Route, navy inspector general, conducted the review of Kerry's Vietnam-ear military service awards at the request of Judicial Watch, a public-interest group. The group has also asked for the release of additional records documenting the Democratic presidential candidate's military service.
Judicial Watch had requested in August that the navy open an investigation of the matter but Route said in an internal memo he saw no reason for a full-scale inquiry.
"Our examination found that existing documentation regarding the Silver Star, Bronze Star and Purple Heart medals indicates the awards approval process was properly followed," Route wrote in the memo sent Friday to Navy Secretary Gordon England.
"In particular, the senior officers who awarded the medals were properly delegated authority to do so. In addition, we found they correctly followed the procedures in place at the time for approving these awards."
Some veterans have challenged Kerry's version of the circumstances surrounding the incident that led to his Silver Star award for battlefield heroism, as well as his three Purple Heart medals.
The Silver Star was awarded for his actions in pursuit of enemy forces while commander of Swift boat unit PCF-94 in Vietnam in February 1969.
Judicial Watch also asked the navy inspector general to investigate Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam and left active duty.
Route concluded there was no justification for looking further into the decisions to award the medals or the anti-war activities.
"Conducting any additional review regarding events that took place over 30 years ago would not be productive," he wrote.
"The passage of time would make reconstruction of the facts and circumstances unreliable and would not allow the information gathered to be considered in the context of the time in which the events took place.
"Our review also considered the fact that Senator Kerry's post-active-duty activities were public and military and civilian officials were aware of his actions at the time. For these reasons, I have determined that Senator Kerry's awards were properly approved and will take no further action in this matter."
Originally posted by: Gravity
Every time Kerry climbs into bed with his wife he is fundraising.
Originally posted by: RottenRob
In actuality, the war crimes to which Kerry referred did indeed occur virtually on a daily basis. The Free-Fire-Zones were one such violation, resulting in literally thousands of civilian deaths. The carpet-bombing of civilian areas to "break the will" of the NVA supporters was another frequent occurance. Harassment and interdiction fire were also used in violation of international law and Geneva Conventions. Not only were these events frequent, but they became unwritten policy - and most of the soldiers were completely unaware they were committing criminal actions, as they were just following orders. Even John O'Neill admitted, on national television (the Dick Cavett Show debate between Kerry and O'neill), that he too participated in war crimes in Vietnam.o In his April 1971 speech to the Senate Committee on Foreign Relations, John Kerry claimed that war crimes committed by the American military against Vietnamese civilians were "not isolated incidents, but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis..." War crimes in Vietnam were actually quite rare.
Your "facts" are incorrect. Military personnel were warned that "if you disobey an order, you can be tried and punished." They were ordered to drop those bombs. They were ordered to consider anything moving between points 'A' and 'B' to be a hostile target, and to fire at will. They were ordered to burn crops and level villages lest they be used by the Viet Cong. In certain areas, whole communities were relocated, and the wells and rice paddies poisoned, so the Viet Cong couldn't re-supply there. You can argue these steps were necessary parts of war because of the nature of the battle we were fighting - and I wouldn't argue with you. But you most certainly can not argue that all of these actions were indeed criminal violations of Geneva Conventions and international law.o Kerry claimed that war crimes were being committed "with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command." In fact, military personnel were warned that "if you disobey the rules of engagement, you can be tried and punished." War crimes were never a matter of policy, and were prosecuted when discovered.
Aren't numbers and percentages wonderful things? With a modicum of skill and juggling, you can make the numbers represent anything you want. The factual bottom line is, by official military records, that blacks did indeed provide the highest percentage of casualties during the Vietnam conflict. The disparity was so significant that it forced military policy changes. The small "window" of time that Burkett uses, exerpted from the total 1965-1973 casualty figures, surely shows whatever he wishes it to show, I have no doubt.o Kerry charged that the war in Vietnam was a racist war, that "blacks provided the highest percentage of casualties." Research published in B.G. Burkett's book "Stolen Valor" and other sources shows that casualty rates for black and white soldiers during Vietnam closely matched the proportion of America's overall population represented by each race.
Take another look at that paragraph. You have refuted none of Kerry's assertions. Based on average extrapolation throughout the duration of the war, 200,000 Vietnamese were indeed dying per year. Deaths that would cease with our withdrawal. You might also want to look at the Apples -vs- Oranges comparison Lewy is really making in that statement. Those triple-dots (...) can come back to bite you in the arse if yer not careful.o Kerry claimed that Vietnam was "ravaged equally by American bombs and search-and-destroy missions as well as by Viet Cong terrorism..." Later in his remarks, Kerry responded to a question about what might happen to the South Vietnamese after our withdrawal with "So what I am saying is that yes, there will be some recrimination but far, far less than the 200,000 a year who are murdered by the United States of America..." Yet according to historian Guenter Lewy in "America in Vietnam," "...the number of civilians killed deliberately by the VC is appallingly high. No counterpart to this death toll caused by communist terror tactics exists on the allied side."
Basically true ('cept the part about when Kerry 'joined' the VVAW). Kerry attended the Paris Peace Talks, along with many other observers, and spoke with representatives from all concerned sides. The special Senate Committee before which Kerry appeared was convened specifically to discuss how the United States could best extract itself from the Vietnam conflict.o Asked for a recommendation about possible courses of action for Congress to pursue, Kerry stated that he had talked with representatives from Hanoi and from the PRG (Viet Cong) at the Paris peace talks, and mentioned his support for "Madam Binh's points." Madam Nguyen Thi Binh was at that time the Foreign Minister for the PRG. These meetings took place in the spring of 1970, before Kerry ever joined the VVAW.
What is it with Neocons and their great desire to quote just a few words out of a sentence, while leaving the rest of the context unmentioned? Tsk. Yes, the VVAW did indeed hold it's "Guerilla Theater" skits in public, using professional actors - to dramatize the "hell of war." The fliers you mention were from their Valley Forge Rally, at which Kerry and several anti-war activists gave speeches. (Sorry - Kerry was merely a spokesman during this event.) Here is the actual flyer...o Kerry was a leader, fund-raiser, and spokesman for Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW), an organization that staged mock mass murders of civilians to dramatize American atrocities, and handed out flyers that read "if you had been Vietnamese" American infantrymen might have "burned your house" or "raped your wife and daughter" and "American soldiers do these things every day to the Vietnamese simply because they are 'Gooks.'"
_____________________________________________________
A US INFANTRY COMPANY JUST CAME THROUGH HERE:
If you had been Vietnamese:
--We might have burnt your house.
--We might have shot your dog.
--We might have shot you .
--We might have raped your wife and daughter.
--We might have turned you over to your government for torture.
--We might have taken souvenirs from your property.
--We might have shot things up a bit.
--We might have done all these things to you and your whole town.
If it doesn't bother you that American soldiers do these things every day to the Vietnamese simply because they are "gooks", then picture yourself as one of the silent victims.
Help us to end the war before they turn your son into a butcher... or a corpse.
_____________________________________________________
Pretty dramatic, isn't it? Now remember, this was just months after the My Lai Massacre court trials, wherein testimony revealed that several hundred innocent civilians were murdered, 17 women were raped, 4 bodies were mutilated, and much of the village structures were burned down at two locations. Let's not forget of the couple dozen soldiers and officers indicted, all but one walked free - making Lt. Calley the single most prolific mass-murderer, rapist, body mutilating arsonist in history.
Flat out wrong. Not a single witness that testified at the Winter Soldier Investigation has been discredited. Lewy and Burkett have tried their best to imply as much, but have failed. The name, ranks and testimony of all participants are part of the congressional record. You'll note that while history revisionists like Burkett, and Vietnam apologists like Lewy are quick to try to defame all aspects of the Anti-War contingent, they fail when it comes to the Winter Soldier Investigation. Of course there were imposters and frauds and scammers during the Vietnam Era, and Burkett and Lewy cite many of them - yet not one was a participant in Winter Soldier.o Kerry's used "testimony" from the VVAW's "Winter Soldier Investigation" as the basis for his war crimes charges, although none of the witnesses there were willing to sign depositions affirming their claims. Later investigators were unable to confirm any of the reported atrocities, and in fact discovered that a number of the witnesses had never been in Vietnam, had never been in combat, or were imposters who had assumed the identity of real veterans.
There is a grain of truth to the assertion that investigators had trouble getting the witnesses to name names, or give specifically incriminating details. The VVAW stated clearly, before beginning the investigation, that their goal was not to incriminate individual soldiers. This was not a trial. Their efforts were directed at showing that much of this criminal activity was not rare and unusual, but fast becoming the accepted norm throughout our military in Vietnam. They were not looking to have individual scapegoats, like Lt. Calley, prosecuted - but were instead looking to indict the administration and military leadership. That's right - the very people trying to verify the Winter Soldier Witnesses claims.
"The deception extended...?" In fact, this is the only deception Nixon's plumbers and the FBI could come up with at all. Al Hubbard exaggerated his rank because, as he stated, he didn't think anyone would take an enlisted black man seriously. He was, however, a pilot - and did indeed run cargo missions to Vietnam. Antiwar-bashers are quick to point to Hubbard and exclaim, "See?! You can't trust the VVAW!" They fail to point out that Hubbard never testified at the Winter Soldier Investigation.o The deception extended to the VVAW leadership. Executive secretary Al Hubbard claimed to have been an Air Force captain wounded piloting a transport over Da Nang in 1966. Hubbard was actually a staff sergeant who was never assigned to Vietnam.
The Winter Soldier Investigation was financed in part by Fonda, and by donations from the VVAW membership. Lane did not contribute to this project. Your (or rather, the propagandists at wintersoldier.com) assertion about Fonda's hopes are somewhat self-defeating. The WSI showed the American government as guilty of bad policy, rather than show the soldiers as mass murders. Loss of support for the war was a by-product of becoming educated about the realities of that war. As for the POW that "stated Kerry's testimony was used by North Vietnam to demoralize American prisoners," did he do so 35 years after the fact, I wonder? May we have his name please? It is a well known fact that many of our POWs suffered torture at the hands of the NVA between 1965-1970. It is equally well known that 98% of all torture of POWs ceased by 1971, primarily as a result of the Peace Talks and Nixon exposing the Vietnamese human rights abuses. Kerrys speech wasn't given until well into 1971. It is usually Jane Fonda that takes the scorn for anti-war propaganda, but Kerry is conveniently included during election seasons.o The Winter Soldier Investigation was financed by pro-Hanoi radicals such as Jane Fonda and Mark Lane, who hoped to undermine American support for the war by framing American soldiers as mass murderers. At the same time, the North Vietnamese military was torturing American prisoners of war to make them confess to identical crimes. At least one former POW has stated that Kerry's testimony was used by North Vietnam to demoralize American prisoners during interrogations.
You forgot to mention that both Kerry and Fonda gave speeches at the Valley Forge Rally. Still, Kerry and Fonda never associated, and never talked with each other. In 1970, Fonda was merely another celebrity anti-war activist. She wouldn't make her infamous Hanoi trip for a couple years still. Kerry was just one of thousands of veterans also protesting the war, albeit more wellspoken than most. You also conveniently forget to mention that Kerry was against what Fonda did in 1972 - and spoke out against it, just as he does today. Like most of us, Kerry felt she was wrong in what she did.o John Kerry has denied any association with Jane Fonda, but he attended the 1970 VVAW leadership meeting that chose Fonda and Executive Secretary Al Hubbard to do a national speaking tour to raise money for the VVAW and launch new chapters. Fonda was also the primary source of funds for the Winter Soldier Investigation, where Kerry was a moderator.
Another pack of twisted, non-related facts and fictions. The VVAW endorsed the People's Peace Treaty. Kerry was still active with VVAW at this time. The VVAW didn't send a delegation to Hanoi. The 'treaty' was a symbolic document between the people of Vietnam and America, enacted with the expatriated Vietnamese students in Canada. It included the concession that America would set a withdrawal date, where upon the Vietnamese would immediately enter discussions on the return of American prisoners. This symbolic treaty was to be forwarded to the respective governments for consideration as a suggested way of ending the war.o The VVAW signed the People's Peace Treaty during Kerry's tenure -- the VVAW even sent a delegation to Hanoi. The document was a laundry list of North Vietnamese bargaining points, including the key concession that the United States must agree to withdraw all troops before any negotiations could take place for the return of American prisoners.
That statement is a pile of unadulterated, right-wing crap. One need only look at the events of the era to determine just what soured the American sentiments against the war, the government and even against the military:o The VVAW was at the heart of the propaganda effort that so effectively smeared American servicemen in Vietnam as murderous, drug-addled psychotics that returning veterans were cursed and spat upon in the streets. In fact, as shown in B.G. Burkett's book "Stolen Valor," Vietnam veterans are more psychologically stable and successful than their civilian counterparts.
** Photos of the slaughter of 504 innocent women and children in the My Lai Massacre
** Photos of the 1232 dead and wounded when we bombed the Bach Mai Hospital
** Film of the scorched children running from Trang Bang village as we napalmed it
** News of the Red River Dike bombings, threatening to drown or starve hundreds of thousands
** The reports of 90 civilians slaughtered on the beaches of My Khe
** Film of the North Vietnamese prisoners being tortured in "Tiger Cages" by our allies
** The Film of our ally, Saigons police chief blowing the brains out of a handcuffed prisoner
** Photos of slaughtered civilians we bombed on Kham Thien street in Hanoi
** Publicity of Westmorelands "Search-and-Destroy" failure killing tens of thousands civilians
** The publication of the Bertrand Russell War Crimes Tribunal, calling U.S. conduct genocidal
** Photos of dying Kent students after being shot by members of one of our military branches
** The later reports of the slaughter of 14 women and children in Thanh Phong village
** The publicized Dellums committee hearings on War Crimes committed by our military
** The Lt. Calley Trial, where every single last murderer in that platoon walked free
** The release of the "Pentagon Papers" and "Nixon Tapes" showing the Military brass and President couldn't be trusted by the public...
The activities of the VVAW were miniscule by comparison. The biggest factor of all was that our reasons for being in that war were weak and impossible to justify, and we lost that war. Americans, rightfully so, have some difficulty dealing with such an occurance. While we know the vast majority of our servicemen served honorably and bravely, still, the Vietnam Vet is a reminder of that which most of us don't want to be reminded. That is the reason there were no ticker-tape parades when our men came home from that war - not the VVAW, or Kerry, or the anti-war movement.
There was no "conspiracy." Camil made the radical suggestion, and everyone else voted it down. There was nothing for Kerry to inform authorities about, just as there was no action taken by the two FBI informants or by the FBI agents listening to the meeting on wires. Kerry did resign from the VVAW, primarily because the group was becoming more radical - and no, he didn't represent them after that. Kerry did, however, continue to speak out against the war.o The VVAW was a radical and potentially violent organization that formally considered assassinating prominent supporters of the war. As reported in the New York Sun by Thomas Lipscomb, during a November 1971 meeting in Kansas City the VVAW leadership and chapter coordinators voted down a plan to murder several U.S. Senators, including John Tower, John Stennis, and Strom Thurmond. Two VVAW members who were present, Randy Barnes and Terry Du-Bose, place John Kerry at that meeting, as do the meeting minutes and FBI records. Kerry claims to have resigned from the VVAW at the meeting or shortly thereafter, but there is no evidence that he ever informed authorities about the conspiracy. Kerry continued to publicly represent the VVAW until at least April of 1972.
SBVT AD FACT CHECK
Originally posted by: conjur
SBVT AD FACT CHECK
AD TITLE: ?Friends?
DATE: 9/21/04
PAID FOR BY: Texas Friends of George Bush, Karl Rove & Karen Hughes
Bush Veterans Group Once Again Twists The Facts
Smear Boat Announcer: ?Even before Jane Fonda went to Hanoi to meet with the enemy and mock America, John Kerry secretly met with enemy leaders in Paris.?
Smear Boat Announcer: ?Though we were still at war and Americans were being held in North Vietnamese prison camps. Then he returned and accused American troops of committing war crimes on a daily basis.?
Smear Boat Announcer: ?Eventually Jane Fonda apologized for her activities, but John Kerry refuses to. In a time of war, can America trust a man who betrayed his country??
Bush Veterans Group Has a Problem Telling the Truth
Associated Press: ?Swift Boat Writer Lied on Cambodia Claim? (AP, 8/25/04)
Washington Post: ?Records Counter a Critic of Kerry- Fellow Skipper's Citation Refers To Enemy Fire? (8/19/04)
New York Times: ?The Group's Arguments Have Foundered on Other Contradictions.? (8/20/04)
Bush Veterans Group Not Seen As Credible
Las Vegas Sun: ?Ad's Smear Should Be Condemned? (8/9/04)
Washington Post: ?Swift Boat Smears? (8/12/04)
CNN: ?Key Parts of Their Story Don?t Ad Up? (CNN, Now with Paula Zahn, 8/7/04)
Smear Vets Try to Stir Up Old News ? Kerry Went to Peace Talks to Learn the Facts About Status of POW?s
Kerry Went Held Informal Discussion at Peace Talks About Status of Returning American POW?s. ?(O)n a trip to Europe with his new bride, Mr. Kerry, the 26-year-old ex-lieutenant took a taxicab from Paris to a suburban villa. ? ?It's not a big deal,? he says now. ?People were dropping in. It was a regular sort of deal.? Senator Eugene J. McCarthy had visited Paris months earlier, and other officials often sat in with the Vietnamese and held news conferences afterward. Mr. Kerry said he considered it a fact-finding mission. The talks had been stalemated for months. Still on the table was a year-old Vietcong initiative that included an offer to release American prisoners of war when American forces pulled out. Mr. Kerry recalled ?testing what I thought the lay of the land was? in the meeting. ?Not that you take their word for their word, but because you sort of put the pieces of the puzzle together.? Asked why the Vietnamese would meet with a 26-year-old, Mr. Kerry suggested it was because he had been on television as a veteran opposed to the war. He acknowledged that they might have been trying to use him to shape American public opinion. ?I knew that, and I was trying to be careful about what was real and what wasn't real,? he said. ?I wanted to really probe. I wanted to look them in the eyes, and say, 'Well, what happens if this happens? And what does this mean?' (New York Times, 4/24/04)
Kerry Did Not Travel to France With Intention of Meeting with Peace Talk Participants. ?After their May 1970 marriage, Kerry traveled to Paris with his wife, Julia Thorne, on a private trip, (Kerry spokesman Michael) Meehan said. Kerry did not go to Paris with the intention of meeting with participants in the peace talks or involving himself in the negotiations, Meehan added, saying that while there Kerry had his brief meeting with Binh, which included members of both delegations to the peace talks. ? ?Senator Kerry had no role whatsoever in the Paris peace talks or negotiations,? Meehan said in his statement. ?He did not engage in any negotiations and did not attend any session of the talks. Prior to his Senate testimony, he went to Paris on a private trip, where he had one brief meeting with Madam Binh and others. In an effort to find facts, he learned the status of the peace talks from their point of view and about any progress in resolving the conflict, particularly as it related to the fate of the POWs.? (Boston Globe, 3/25/04)
Kerry?s 1971 Testimony Was Relating the Stories He Heard From Fellow Vietnam Veterans?Incidents Which Have Been Openly Admitted & Investigated Since
Kerry Spoke About Testimony He Had Heard From Vietnam Veterans. ?I would like to talk, representing all those veterans, and say that several months ago in Detroit, we had an investigation at which over 150 honorably discharged and many very highly decorated veterans testified to war crimes committed in Southeast Asia, not isolated incidents but crimes committed on a day-to-day basis with the full awareness of officers at all levels of command. It is impossible to describe to you exactly what did happen in Detroit, the emotions in the room, the feelings of the men who were reliving their experiences in Vietnam, but they did. They relived the absolute horror of what this country, in a sense, made them do.? ? John Kerry (Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony, 4/22/71)
? Toledo Blade Wins 2004 Pulitzer for Series Exposing American Atrocities in Vietnam. ?Three (Toledo) Blade reporters won the Pulitzer Prize - journalism's highest honor - for uncovering the atrocities of an elite U.S. Army fighting unit in the Vietnam War that killed unarmed civilians and children during a seven-month rampage. Michael D. Sallah, Mitch Weiss, and Joe Mahr received the investigative reporting prize for their series ? ?Buried Secrets, Brutal Truths? - which detailed how the Army failed to stop the atrocities after commanders were told about them. The reporters also discovered that the Army failed to prosecute soldiers who killed unarmed civilians after an investigation found the platoon had committed war crimes. (Toledo Blade, 4/6/04)
? Newsweek: ?Record Shows Atrocities Did Occur.? ?The historical record shows that atrocities did occur in Vietnam, as in the My Lai massacre or the so-called Tiger Force activities that were recently uncovered.? (Newsday, 2/22/04)
? Vietnam Historian Says There?s No Question Atrocities Occurred. ?Stanley Karnow, author of ?Vietnam: A History,? said there is no question that atrocities occurred on both sides in the Vietnam War. (Boston Globe, 5/13/04)
? Gen. Tommy Franks: Certain That Atrocities in Vietnam Did Take Place. ?I think we had a lot of problems in Vietnam. One was the lack of leadership of young people like in - - in John Kerry's position. He was a young officer over there, and I'm not sure that -- that activities like that didn't take place. In fact, quite the contrary. I'm sure that they did. ...I wouldn't say that the things that Senator Kerry said are undeniable about activities in Vietnam. I think that things didn't go right in Vietnam.? (Hannity and Colmes, 8/3/04)
In 1971 Kerry Condemned America?s Political & Military Leadership?Not His Fellow Veterans
Kerry?s Testimony Was an Indictment of America?s Political Leadership?Not Fellow Veterans. ?We are also here to ask, and we are here to ask vehemently, where are the leaders of our country? Where is the leadership? We are here to ask where are McNamara, Rostow, Bundy, Gilpatric and so many others. Where are they now that we, the men whom they sent off to war, have returned? These are commanders who have deserted their troops, and there is no more serious crime in the law of war. The Army says they never leave their wounded. The Marines say they never leave even their dead. These men have left all the casualties and retreated behind a pious shield of public rectitude. They have left the real stuff of their reputation bleaching behind them in the sun in this country.? ? John Kerry (Senate Foreign Relations Committee Testimony, 4/22/71)
Kerry Clearly Referred to the Political Leadership at the Time. JUDY WOODRUFF: ?They are saying, in effect, you were accusing American troops of war crimes.? JOHN KERRY: ?No, I was accusing American leaders of abandoning the troops. And if you read what I said, it is very clearly an indictment of leadership. I said to the Senate, where is the leadership of our country? And it's the leaders who are responsible, not the soldiers. I never said that. I've always fought for the soldiers. In fact, not only did we oppose the war, but we proudly stood up and fought for the additions to the GI Bill so that vets would be able to use it. We fought for the V.A. Hospitals. I wrote the Agent Orange legislation with Tom Daschle. I helped with the post-Vietnam stress syndrome outreach centers. I'm proud of the record of fighting for soldiers and for veterans. And the fact is if we want to redebate the war on Vietnam in 2004, I'm ready for that. It was a mistake, and I'm proud of having stood up and shared with America my perceptions of what was happening.? (CNN, Inside Politics, 2/19/04)
Kerry Has Stated That His Words Were Those of An Angry Young Man Determined to End a War
Kerry on His Use of the Word ?Atrocities? KERRY: I thought a lot, for a long time, about that period of time, the things we said, and I think the word is a bad word. I think it's an inappropriate word. I mean, if you wanted to ask me have you ever made mistakes in your life, sure. I think some of the language that I used was a language that reflected an anger. It was honest, but it was in anger, it was a little bit excessive. (NBC, Meet the Press, 4/18/04)
Kerry On His Use of the Words ?War Criminals? KERRY: It was, I think, a reflection of the kind of times we found ourselves in and I don't like it when I hear it today. I don't like it, but I want you to notice that at the end, I wasn't talking about the soldiers and the soldiers' blame, and my great regret is, I hope no soldier--I mean, I think some soldiers were angry at me for that, and I understand that and I regret that, because I love them. But the words were honest but on the other hand, they were a little bit over the top. And I think that there were breaches of the Geneva Conventions. There were policies in place that were not acceptable according to the laws of warfare, and everybody knows that. I mean, books have chronicled that, so I'm not going to walk away from that. But I wish I had found a way to say it in a less abrasive way. (NBC, Meet the Press, 4/18/04)
Kerry on His Relating the Stories Told By Other Vietnam Veterans. MR. RUSSERT: But, Senator, when you testified before the Senate, you talked about some of the hearings you had observed at the winter soldiers meeting and you said that people had personally raped, cut off ears, cut off heads, taped wires from portable telephones to human genitals and on and on. A lot of those stories have been discredited, and in hindsight was your testimony... SEN. KERRY: Actually, a lot of them have been documented. MR. RUSSERT: So you stand by that?
SEN. KERRY: A lot of those stories have been documented. Have some been discredited? Sure, they have, Tim. The problem is that's not where the focus should have been. And, you know, when you're angry about something and you're young, you know, you're perfectly capable of not--I mean, if I had the kind of experience and time behind me that I have today, I'd have framed some of that differently. Needless to say, I'm proud that I stood up. I don't want anybody to think twice about it. I'm proud that I took the position that I took to oppose it. I think we saved lives, and I'm proud that I stood up at a time when it was important to stand up, but I'm not going to quibble, you know, 35 years later that I might not have phrased things more artfully at times. (NBC, Meet the Press, 4/18/04)
Kerry?s trip was not linked to Jane Fonda?s
Kerry Opposed Fonda's Controversial Trip to Hanoi; Thought It Was "Wrong."
? "Kerry's campaign so far has been low-key in reaction to the GOP criticism, noting only that he did not approve of Fonda's controversial trip to Hanoi." (Pittsburgh Post Gazette, 2/13/04)
? "Kerry aides said he did not support Fonda's trip to Vietnam, an action for which many veterans still refuse to forgive her more than 30 years later." (CNN.com, 2/10/04)
? "'It's guilt by association,' (Historian and Kerry biographer, Prof. Douglas) Brinkley said. ' "Hanoi Jane" is a lightning rod among many veterans. Even today, many remain angry about her trip to Vietnam. But John Kerry has always spoken out that he thought that trip was the wrong thing to do.' " (Los Angeles Times, 2/12/04)
More Details Reveal Swift Boat Vets Closer to Bush & Rove Than Previously Thought
?Texas Oilmen Key Donors to Swift-Boat Group's Anti-Kerry Ads, Report Says.? ?Texas oilmen, led by takeover specialist T. Boone Pickens, have helped fuel the anti-Kerry advertising campaign of Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a report shows. Pickens contributed $500,000 to the group, the report said. A second oilman from Dallas, Albert Huddleston, contributed $100,000. The group, whose controversial attacks on the war record of Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry have attracted national attention, claims it has raised $6.7 million, but it portrays itself as a grass-roots effort thriving on small contributions. The group reported that it spent more than $700,000 to buy time for an anti-Kerry commercial now running on national cable television and paid for it with the contributions listed. Pickens, 75, founder of Mesa Petroleum, the largest independent oil-and-gas producer in the United States, made the largest contribution. A major Republican donor, he previously has supported both Bush and his father, former President George H.W. Bush. Huddleston, 51, also is a major Republican donor. The chief executive of Hyperion Resources, an oil-and-gas company, raised at least $100,000 for Bush's 2000 campaign. He also is a heavy donor to GOP candidates in Texas, giving $704,500 in 2002, according to the nonpartisan group Follow the Money, which monitors Texas political contributions. The Kerry campaign contends the group is directed by President Bush's re-election campaign in violation of federal law. Three election-watchdog groups have filed complaints with the Federal Election Commission. The veterans group's legal counsel, Benjamin Ginsberg, who also was an adviser to Bush, resigned from the president's campaign after the complaints were filed.? (Knight Ridder, 9/12/04)
Best Known For Helping Bush Smear McCain, Wyly Brothers Now Smearing Kerry. ?Texas brothers Sam Wyly and Charles Wyly Jr. each donated $10,000 (to the Swift Boat Veterans for Bush). The brothers, longtime financial backers of Bush, were best known for their ties to Republicans for Clean Air, which spent more than $2.5 million in 2000 attacking McCain's environmental record. McCain has denounced the Swift Boat campaign. Texas investor T. Boone Pickens, who recently donated $2 million to another Republican group that is running anti-Kerry ads, donated $500,000 and is the group's largest donor so far. Dallas oil executive Albert Huddleston, a fundraiser for Bush in 2000, gave $100,000.? Houston homebuilder Bob Perry, who gave the group its seed money, donated $200,000 more. (LA Times, 9/11/04)
Bush Pioneers/Rangers Funneling Money to Kerry Attack Ads. According to a newly released Federal Election Commission report, the 527 group known as the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has received hundreds of thousands of dollars from George Bush?s leading fundraisers.
?4th Prez Guy Tied to Anti-Kerry Ads? ?A fourth Bush campaign official has been linked to a veterans group hammering Democratic presidential candidate John Kerry's Vietnam War heroism. GOP convention Chairman David Norcross practices law in the same D.C. firm, Blank Rome, as William Schachte, a retired Navy admiral who says Kerry did not deserve one of his Purple Heart medals, Time magazine reported yesterday. Schachte is aligned with the anti-Kerry group Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, which has dominated the campaign in recent weeks with accusations that the former Swift boat skipper is lying about how he got his war medals.? (NY Daily News, 8/30/04)
Bush-Cheney ?04 Lawyer Becomes Second Campaign Official to Resign for Ties to Swift Boat Ads. ?Benjamin Ginsberg, a lawyer for the Bush campaign, resigned Wednesday, a day after acknowledging that he had given legal advice to the anti-Kerry group. Ginsberg said he never told the Bush campaign what he discussed with the group or vice versa, and didn't advise the group on ad strategies. The Kerry campaign has filed a complaint with the Federal Election Commission accusing the Bush campaign and the Swift Boat Veterans for Truth of illegally coordinating the group's ads.? (AP, 8/25/04)
?Bush Adviser Quits After Appearing in Swift Boat Ad? ?A volunteer adviser has quit President Bush's re-election campaign after appearing in a veterans group's television commercial blasting Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry's involvement in the Vietnam-era antiwar movement. A Bush campaign statement said it did not know that retired Air Force Col. Ken Cordier had appeared in an ad by Swift Boat Veterans for Truth. The Kerry campaign has accused the group of illegally working with the Bush campaign.? (CNN.com; 8/22/04)
AP: Florida Bush Headquarters Busted for Handing Out Swift Boat Material. ?A volunteer for John Kerry said Friday he picked up a flier in Bush-Cheney headquarters in Gainesville, Fla., promoting Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group the Bush campaign has insisted for weeks it has no connection to. The Kerry campaign e-mailed the flier to news organizations Friday, declaring that the Bush-Cheney campaign was ?busted? for coordinating ?in their smear campaign against John Kerry.? The flier distributed at Alachua Co. Republican Party headquarters promotes a weekend rally sponsored by ?Swift Boat Vets for Truth? and other groups.? (AP, 8/20/04)
New York Times: Bush Family, Bush Political Aide Have Close Ties to These Ads. ?In a series of interviews and a review of documents show a web of connections to the Bush family, high-profile Texas political figures and President Bush?s chief political aide, Karl Rove. Records show that the group received the bulk of its initial financing from two men with ties to the president and his family - one a longtime political associate of Mr. Rove's, the other a trustee of the foundation for Mr. Bush's father's presidential library. A Texas publicist who once helped prepare Mr. Bush's father for his debate when he was running for vice president provided them with strategic advice. And the group's television commercial was produced by the same team that made the devastating ad mocking Michael S. Dukakis in an oversized tank helmet when he and Mr. Bush's father faced off in the 1988 presidential election.? (NYT, 8/20/04)
Dallas Morning News: ?Veterans' Group Critical of Kerry Backed by Bush Supporter.? Bob Perry, a major supporter of President Bush and the Republican Party, is the biggest financial backer of a veterans group seeking to discredit Democrat John Kerry's military service, according to federal records. Perry, a Houston homebuilder, gave $100,000 to Swift Boat Veterans for Truth, a group that has been critical of Kerry's anti-war activities after he returned from Vietnam. That accounted for two-thirds of the organization's receipts to date. (DMN, 7/23/04)
New Polls Find Swift Ads Backfiring on Bush; Majority of Americans Also Believe He Should Denounce Them
Voters Increasingly Believe Bush Behind Smears. ?A plurality of Americans believe the Bush campaign is behind the television ads run by critics of John Kerry over his service in Vietnam and his antiwar statements after he returned to the United States. Belief in Bush campaign backing of the ads increased? as the campaign went on. (Annenberg National Election Survey, 8/27/04)
Another Poll Says Half of Americans Believe Bush Behind Smear Campaign on Kerry. According to a poll done by the Gallup Organization, half of all Americans believe Bush is behind the despicable smear campaign on John Kerry. ?When asked if they think Bush is responsible for the ads, half of Americans say yes -- 21% say he is ?very? responsible, while another 29% say ?somewhat? responsible.? (Gallup Organization press release, 8/27/04; http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=12823 )
Bush on Wrong Side--Majority of Americans Disagree with Bush Decision Not to Condemn Smear Ad on Kerry. According to the same poll from Gallup , a majority of Americans disagree with President Bush?s decision to condone the smear ad on Kerry. Most Americans believe Bush should have specifically condemned the ad: ?Should Bush denounce the commercials? So far, the president has denounced ?all? ads by groups outside the campaigns, but has refused to single out the ad criticizing Kerry's service. A majority of Americans, 56%, say he should denounce the specific commercials.? (Gallup, 8/27/04; http://www.gallup.com/content/default.aspx?ci=12823 )
?Swift Boat Ads Push GOP Veteran Into Kerry Camp.? ?Ed Belfoure, who flew helicopters as a Marine in Vietnam, is a registered Republican. But he promises to cross party lines in November to vote for Democrat John Kerry for president. Belfoure, of Washington, Pa., said yesterday he cannot abide the ?despicable television ads? that donors to President Bush's campaign have aimed at Kerry. A group calling itself Swift Boat Veterans for Truth has attacked Kerry's service record in Vietnam. Kerry received Silver and Bronze stars and three Purple Hearts in the war -- honors that Swift Boat Veterans for Truth say he did not deserve.? (Pittsburgh Post Gazette, 8/25/04)
Former Advisor to Nixon, Ford & Reagan Says ?Below-the-Belt? Ads Backfire. Regarding the potential for these ads to backfire, former Nixon, Ford and Reagan advisor, David Gergen said, ?While negative ads work in a short term, if they're seen as unfair, as below the belt, as smear tactics, they can backfire on the candidate in the long term.? Gergen also stated that, ?in the long term, it may backfire against the White House, especially if Americans decide that the ads are incorrect, they're lies, they're smears, and they're part of a dirty tricks campaign.? (CNN, Inside Politics, 8/25/04; CBS Evening News, 8/23/04)
Vietnam Veteran Predicts These Ads Will Backfire. ?At least some veterans have rejected the campaign, and even suggest it could backfire. Dan Foulk, who dropped napalm over the rivers patrolled by swift boats while an air force pilot in Vietnam (said) ?I don't think it's changing the election at all.? Standing beside the second world war memorial in Washington, DC, Mr Foulk, 72, said he and his veteran friends were more concerned with healthcare and ?their sons and daughters dying in Iraq? than a controversy over medals.? (Financial Times, 8/25/04)