Official Targets Welfare Abuse

[Ornery]

Now that the former Chardon Municipal Court Judge is retired from the bench, he's pulling no punches

• "I don't care whether or not you put these people in prison; they should be castrated," he said.
  
  "People should not be allowed to have any more children once they've shown they're incompetent of taking care of the ones they have," he added. "Those people are saying, 'Let the government pay for this.' We're already paying for the children, the day care, the health benefits, the Family First council and other crap like that at an extremely high cost. It needs to stop."
  
  "This is not abortion, this is different. If you cannot take care of a child, you shouldn't be allowed to have more. I don't care how many kids you have, I don't want to pay for them."

If I lived in Geauga County, he'd get my vote! :thumbsup:

 

[Perknose]

I am so torn. May God have mercy on my soul, because subsequent posters surely won't.

 

[techs]

The way I read it is he feels if you are recieving any child assistance money and have another child you should be castrated.
He believes if you get pregnant you are abusing the system. He doesn't make any allowances for Catholics who won't use birth control or people who use birth control that fails.
Have a kid while on public assistance, get castrated. Sound like a Nazi plan to me.
If you really support this policy I can only hope you NEVER get anywhere near power in this country. Because you would probably cause a revolution to overthrow you.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Now that the former Chardon Municipal Court Judge is retired from the bench, he's pulling no punches

• "I don't care whether or not you put these people in prison; they should be castrated," he said.
  
  "People should not be allowed to have any more children once they've shown they're incompetent of taking care of the ones they have," he added. "Those people are saying, 'Let the government pay for this.' We're already paying for the children, the day care, the health benefits, the Family First council and other crap like that at an extremely high cost. It needs to stop."
  
  "This is not abortion, this is different. If you cannot take care of a child, you shouldn't be allowed to have more. I don't care how many kids you have, I don't want to pay for them."

If I lived in Geauga County, he'd get my vote! :thumbsup:

If you lived in Berlin in the 1930's....

 

[Ornery]

1. Hah! I could be swept into office on that plank alone!
   
   BTW, he's got more balls than I do... no pun intended.

 

[Meuge]

While it is absolutely unacceptable that people abuse welfare, it is revolting and appalling that a public official (even a retired one) would utter something like that.

 

[sandorski]

Yay for Totalitarianism!

 

[Ornery]

Questions posed concerning commissioner's 'sterilization plan'

• He advocates a choice for males who are found to be guilty of neglecting to pay child support. That choice is either five years in jail, or probation, with the caveat that probation entails undergoing a reversible vasectomy.

I'm not seeing a problem there!

 

[Starbuck1975]

Have a kid while on public assistance, get castrated. Sound like a Nazi plan to me.

I love it when people play the Nazi card.

He believes if you get pregnant you are abusing the system. He doesn't make any allowances for Catholics who won't use birth control or people who use birth control that fails.

There are exceptions to every rule, but that is not what he is saying. Directly from the article:

People should not be allowed to have any more children once they've shown they're incompetent of taking care of the ones they have

We are not talking about accidental or unplanned pregnancies here...we are talking about people who continue to have children for the perceived or actual welfare benefits to pumping out kids, without having demonstrated the maturity or ability to raise the kids they already have.

In the town where I grew up in NY, the state decided to build a home for welfare mothers just down the street from my house...many of these women had upwards of 5 kids...5 KIDS!!! Most of them were junkies...many of them continued to get pregnant, without having the means to support the kids they already had.

What future can these kids possibly have...granted, the article may be a bit excessive in its recommendations...but the current system doesn't work either.

 

[sandorski]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Questions posed concerning commissioner's 'sterilization plan'

• He advocates a choice for males who are found to be guilty of neglecting to pay child support. That choice is either five years in jail, or probation, with the caveat that probation entails undergoing a reversible vasectomy.

I'm not seeing a problem there!

The guy's a kook.

 

[Zebo]

Meh small potatoes welfare is like 1% fed, nothing compared to the payola Bush is raping the taxpayer for his already well-healed buddies in Iraq. That said no matter how small, nothing should be free - breeds sloth.

 

[Ronstang]

If you are on government assisstance because you have ONE child you can't take care of and you get pregnant and have another your assisstance should STOP immediately. Why do liberals always think the taxpayer is supposed to accept the responsibility for the bad decisions of people who do not contribute to society? It is simply absurd. People like this were extremely uncommon 100 years ago when the family of the idiot or private charity were the only recourse for those too stupid to live a productive life. Liberals and their "votes for assisstance" program known as welfare does nothing but increase the amount of people that need the program by rewarding STUPID behavior.

 

[Starbuck1975]

Meh small potatoes welfare is like 1% fed, nothing compared to the payola Bush is raping the taxpayer for his already well-healed buddies in Iraq. That said no matter how small, nothing should be free - breeds sloth.

Blah blah blah...Bush...blah blah blah...Halliburton...blah blah blah...oil...blah blah blah...fascist...blah blah blah...obligatory Nazi reference.

This thread has nothing to do with Bush.

 

[Vic]

Better just to cut off the assistance than to walk this dark path of pretending we're God. Eugenics is ugly, ugly, ugly. And yes, this is the politics of Hitler. Racism as pseudoscience. Sickening.

 

[zendari]

Good idea. Give the leeches a hold and they start digging deeper into your veins.

 

[techs]

Nazis? Absolutely! Just look at what people are saying about this.
Many people in this thread are clearly enemies of human rights.

 

[Ornery]

Better just to cut off the assistance...

You know damn well that would hurt the kids the most, which even I can't agree with. It isn't their fault, it's their idiot parent's. You'd have to take the kids away, which is even more of a tax burden. Hell, their parents would just keep breeding anyway.

Five years incarcerated, or turn in your nuts. Their choice. Still don't see a problem!

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: Ornery
Better just to cut off the assistance...

You know damn well that would hurt the kids the most, which even I can't agree with. It isn't their fault, it's their idiot parent's. You'd have to take the kids away, which is even more of a tax burden. Hell, their parents would just keep breeding anyway.

Five years incarcerated, or turn in your nuts. Their choice. Still don't see a problem!

But here is where the circular nature of this argument comes into play. As long as you reward these idiots for having children they will continue to do so. Anything you do for the children only encourages the behavior of having children you cannot afford since you know there is a government program in place to provide for them. If they had no assisstance they would either provide for themselves or die....either one benefits society more than the current system. Yes, it is cold hearted and some will suffer in the short run but in the long run the problem solves itself. It is quite the folly to reward stupid behavior yet think the behavior will decrease somehow through education.

I am a social darwinist so I have no apologies, I take care of myself and the people close to me, it is not my responsibility to take care of those that make no effort to take care of themselves.

 

[aka1nas]

Forced sterilization is far too draconian, but I would consider supporting either taking the children away from the parents in such a situation and putting them in foster care or at least removing control of the financial assistance from the irresponsible parent. Remove the "profit" of people on wellfare to crank out more babies and that would cut down on most of the abuse.

 

[Ornery]

If they had no assisstance they would either provide for themselves or die...

Wouldn't bother me a bit, if you were only talking about the adults, but the kids are blameless. We have a LOT of laws in place to protect kids from their idiot parents, and I agree with them. This IS the sticking point. Taking morons off the dole without hurting kids. Answer: Take away their ability to have more! Uncle Albert is on to something here.

I remeber there was some kind of program where the government would pay people a few hundred dollars if they agreed to be sterilized. Amazingly, there were many takers! Probably just the sort of folks you wouldn't want having kids anyway. Win-win situation for everybody!

 

[Tom]

In other words the Bill of Rights shouldn't apply to people on welfare ?

You know what the difference is between the people posting in this thread and people on welfare ?

clue- there isn't any difference.

 

[Ornery]

Bill of Rights, Amendment XI: All the nation's poor and their broods shall be entitled to retirement benefits, and full health coverage no matter what they contribute.



Population Control Today

• Sometimes population planners make a distinction between incentives and disincentives. An incentive is a reward for cooperating, a "carrot." In some nations, poor women are paid cash or given gifts if they get sterilized; such payments (or bribes) are incentives. A disincentive is some kind of punishment for failing to cooperate, a "stick." Fines, loss of work or promotion, and loss of farmland are examples of coercion. In the debate over population policy, some funders argue for an approach based on voluntarism, and insist that they will not support a program that has any coercion, quotas or disincentives, but will tolerate incentives.

Looks like Uncle Albert's sterilization plan is an "incentive". Neglecting to pay child support nets you a choice between doing time or :Q

 

[techs]

As I recall one of the first things the Nazis did was give a disincentive to mentally defective people to not have children. They did this by cutting off their nugies.
The next step was an even more effective plan. The just killed the mentally defective.
I find it so heartwarming to know that Americans are now embracing the Nazis ideology.
Merry Fuehrer and an Aryan New Year.

 

[conjur]

Welfare reform is still needed but this draconian measure is just insanity.

People complain of the Chinese restricting births and complain of the little-discussed Indian practice of killing newborns if they're female but they're fine with something like this?

 

[Ronstang]

Originally posted by: conjur
Welfare reform is still needed but this draconian measure is just insanity.

People complain of the Chinese restricting births and complain of the little-discussed Indian practice of killing newborns if they're female but they're fine with something like this?

There is nothing draconion about simply not paying people to sit around and make babies. If they don't want to support themselves then the consequences are their own doing. If there was no promise of free money to the non-producers then they would be forced to face a simple fact the rest of us do every day.....better yourself and get a job or starve.