***Official*** The Super Official Debate Feedback Thread. ***Confirmed***

[eelw]

See, news cycle no longer on the debate 🤣

 

[Pens1566]

See, news cycle no longer on the debate 🤣

And it'll get buried even further down next Thursday when Trump is sentenced.

 

[Zorba]

Damn, they are going to need a bigger container ship for all your diapers.

With today's supreme court ruling the only thing standing between us and 1930s Germany are about 50,000 marginal voters in 6 states voting for Biden. These are likely people that couldn't explain the impact of a single court decision from this term.

Are you seriously not shitting your pants over Biden shooting himself in both feet on Thursday and how he might be and to perform between now and the election?

 

[MrSquished]

With today's supreme court ruling the only thing standing between us and 1930s Germany are about 50,000 marginal voters in 6 states voting for Biden. These are likely people that couldn't explain the impact of a single court decision from this term.

Are you seriously not shitting your pants over Biden shooting himself in both feet on Thursday and how he might be and to perform between now and the election?

Brother, these people have turned into mini-cultists about Biden. As we can see from other threads they are just using insane rational and logic that does not make any sense, and they are totally gaslighting as well. They are a part of the problem. If we save Democracy this fall, we still have to worry about these insane Democrats fucking us up in 2028 because they simply don't exist in reality, and are the primary reason we are all on pins and needles here. Because of their candidate.

 

[K1052]

With today's supreme court ruling the only thing standing between us and 1930s Germany are about 50,000 marginal voters in 6 states voting for Biden. These are likely people that couldn't explain the impact of a single court decision from this term.

Are you seriously not shitting your pants over Biden shooting himself in both feet on Thursday and how he might be and to perform between now and the election?

I mean this is more an indictment of the Electoral College than anything.

 

[MrSquished]

I mean this is more an indictment of the Electoral College than anything.

I don't think he's saying the electoral college is not biased, But we knew that going into this don't you think? It's about the fucked up choices we made to have this candidate right now. You do realize we've won presidential elections with the electoral college. So please stop trying to gaslight the situation we're in yet again.

 

[eelw]

I don't think he's saying the electoral college is not biased, But we knew that going into this don't you think? It's about the fucked up choices we made to have this candidate right now. You do realize we've won presidential elections with the electoral college. So please stop trying to gaslight the situation we're in yet again.

But the point is without the EC, the orange monkey would have never won and the threat of him winning again

 

[K1052]

I don't think he's saying the electoral college is not biased, But we knew that going into this don't you think? It's about the fucked up choices we made to have this candidate right now. You do realize we've won presidential elections with the electoral college. So please stop trying to gaslight the situation we're in yet again.

Democrats must pull an inside straight every presidential election in the EC tipping point states or the country could become a dictatorship seems like a bit more of a structural problem and than political problem even if it is both in effect.

When was the last time a Democrat won the EC but lost the PV? What about Republicans?

 

[Zorba]

I mean this is more an indictment of the Electoral College than anything.

Yes, but that is the system we have for November. Biden wins we delay becoming Nazi Germany for at least 4 more years. Trump wins, we're fucked. And again it'll be a handful of voters in a few states, voters that likely won't even know about today's ruling.

 

[fskimospy]

Democrats must pull an inside straight every presidential election in the EC tipping point states or the country could become a dictatorship seems like a bit more of a structural problem and than political problem even if it is both in effect.

When was the last time a Democrat won the EC but lost the PV? What about Republicans?

There has never been a case in all of US history where a Democrat won the EC but lost the popular vote.

 

[MrSquished]

But the point is without the EC, the orange monkey would have never won and the threat of him winning again

But nobody said the EC and that threat don't exist. So what is your point?

Again, Zorba knows quite well about the EC, and he knows it's heavily biased to the GQP.

Again, the Dems know this, and know they need to win with the EC, so they don't have an excuse as to the candidate they put up to win. And there are some here wanting to gaslight us on their preferred candidate, Biden, and have been for the last year or so.

 

[Zorba]

But nobody said the EC and that threat don't exist. So what is your point?

Again, Zorba knows quite well about the EC, and he knows it's heavily biased to the GQP.

Again, the Dems know this, and know they need to win with the EC, so they don't have an excuse as to the candidate they put up to win. And there are some here wanting to gaslight us on their preferred candidate, Biden, and have been for the last year or so.

I really don't know that replacing Biden at this point is the right thing, but telling people that are nervous to stop filling up their diapers is just denying reality. We should all be scared even if it was Obama or Bill Clinton on the ticket (in their primes), the consequences are fucking massive and the margins tiny.

 

[MrSquished]

I really don't know that replacing Biden at this point is the right thing, but telling people that are nervous to stop filling up their diapers is just denying reality. We should all be scared even if it was Obama or Bill Clinton on the ticket (in their primes), the consequences are fucking massive and the margins tiny.

I agree, I said in a post recently, I don't necessarily think replacing Biden is the best option, that just might be keeping him in, but to keep gaslighting us about reality is insulting to our intelligence. All so they can deflect deserved criticism of Biden and the process that got us stuck with him, within the party and his own inner circle. But I said I'm more than happy to engage with them honestly, but not until they stop being so arrogant about their bullshit position. Because the only way forward is to admit reality, admit mistakes, because if we get past this fall, the Dems need to fundamentally improve as a party and their nonsense is what got us here then, and could screw us over the next four years just fine.

 

[MrSquished]

We had an unscheduled meeting of some of the core peeps from the local progressive group I am in. It was basically to try to build some morale after last weeks fiasco. We wrote postcards to registered Dem voters in PA, and just generally wanted to hang out with some likeminded people and feel better about the total fuckshow we are living in, have a beer and some pizza. I will tell you, the general feeling towards the Democrats was not good. People are pissed, and rightfully so. But we are all still trying to get Biden elected. But not many people there were defending the Dem/Biden nonsense we have been sold. The debate was a smack in the face. The group we are writing postcards for is aiming for 20 million postcards out at least. The analytics say for every 73 postcards you send, you get one voter out to vote who would have not voted. So 20 million plus is good.

Good news is the website launch I have helped spearhead is coming to fruition. First time this group will have a website. We are going all in to defeat Trump this year.

But of the folks I hung out with tonight, nobody wants to hear people carrying the Dems & Bidens water by pretending the reality we all see is the best we could have done. It's insulting.

 

[Perknose]

We had an unscheduled meeting of some of the core peeps from the local progressive group I am in. It was basically to try to build some morale after last weeks fiasco. We wrote postcards to registered Dem voters in PA, and just generally wanted to hang out with some likeminded people and feel better about the total fuckshow we are living in, have a beer and some pizza. I will tell you, the general feeling towards the Democrats was not good. People are pissed, and rightfully so. But we are all still trying to get Biden elected. But not many people there were defending the Dem/Biden nonsense we have been sold. The debate was a smack in the face. The group we are writing postcards for is aiming for 20 million postcards out at least. The analytics say for every 73 postcards you send, you get one voter out to vote who would have not voted. So 20 million plus is good.

Good news is the website launch I have helped spearhead is coming to fruition. First time this group will have a website. We are going all in to defeat Trump this year.

But of the folks I hung out with tonight, nobody wants to hear people carrying the Dems & Bidens water by pretending the reality we all see is the best we could have done. It's insulting.

I don't think any likely Biden voter, especially those here, is "carrying the Dems & Bidens water." Please don't let the obviously titanic anger you carry within you blind you to that fact. Contempt doesn't help build electoral coalitions.

 

[MrSquished]

I don't think any likely Biden voter, especially those here, is "carrying the Dems & Bidens water." Please don't let the obviously titanic anger you carry within you blind you to that fact. Contempt doesn't help build electoral coalitions.

Well look harder. There are most definitely the usual suspects doing exactly that. I'm not the only one to point it out.

 

[pmv]

Brother, these people have turned into mini-cultists about Biden. As we can see from other threads they are just using insane rational and logic that does not make any sense, and they are totally gaslighting as well. They are a part of the problem. If we save Democracy this fall, we still have to worry about these insane Democrats fucking us up in 2028 because they simply don't exist in reality, and are the primary reason we are all on pins and needles here. Because of their candidate.

I don't think that's quite fair. It's not a "Biden cult" - people clearly don't worship him as an individual, rather they are simply desperate for 'anything that isn't Trump'.

But what is annoying is that centrists are hypocritical about this 'rally round the flag' 'lesser of two evils' stuff - their centrist candidate must be forgiven all failings and shortcomings, and anyone pointing them out or worrying about the obvious weaknesses is betraying the cause, because of the scale of the threat from the right.

But we all know if it were a leftist showing similar weaknesses, the centrists/liberals would take a very different attitude.

As centrists have in fact done, repeatedly, in many different countries, as they did with Corbyn - who certainly had weaknesses - preferring to emphasise those weaknesses and sabotage him, and, in effect, helping Johnson win.

And they seem to be about to do exactly that again in France, where the choice is now between the far-right and the left, and the centrists appear to be uncertain which way to jump.

 

[fskimospy]

I don't think that's quite fair. It's not a "Biden cult" - people clearly don't worship him as an individual, rather they are simply desperate for 'anything that isn't Trump'.

But what is annoying is that centrists are hypocritical about this 'rally round the flag' 'lesser of two evils' stuff - their centrist candidate must be forgiven all failings and shortcomings, and anyone pointing them out or worrying about the obvious weaknesses is betraying the cause, because of the scale of the threat from the right.

But we all know if it were a leftist showing similar weaknesses, the centrists/liberals would take a very different attitude.

As centrists have in fact done, repeatedly, in many different countries, as they did with Corbyn - who certainly had weaknesses - preferring to emphasise those weaknesses and sabotage him, and, in effect, helping Johnson win.

And they seem to be about to do exactly that again in France, where the choice is now between the far-right and the left, and the centrists appear to be uncertain which way to jump.

Can you point to any concrete examples of people saying Biden (or another ‘centrist’ candidate) should not be criticized?

Also, Biden has governed as the most liberal president in any of our lifetimes so calling him a centrist doesn’t make a ton of sense.

 

[K1052]

Also, Biden has governed as the most liberal president in any of our lifetimes so calling him a centrist doesn’t make a ton of sense.

It is kind of unbelievable that he moved way to the left of Obama and people are still pissed off at him. The left flank needs to learn how to take some satisfaction from actually achieving some of their goals like the Republican right flank does.

 

[Brainonska511]

I don't think that's quite fair. It's not a "Biden cult" - people clearly don't worship him as an individual, rather they are simply desperate for 'anything that isn't Trump'.

But what is annoying is that centrists are hypocritical about this 'rally round the flag' 'lesser of two evils' stuff - their centrist candidate must be forgiven all failings and shortcomings, and anyone pointing them out or worrying about the obvious weaknesses is betraying the cause, because of the scale of the threat from the right.

But we all know if it were a leftist showing similar weaknesses, the centrists/liberals would take a very different attitude.

As centrists have in fact done, repeatedly, in many different countries, as they did with Corbyn - who certainly had weaknesses - preferring to emphasise those weaknesses and sabotage him, and, in effect, helping Johnson win.

And they seem to be about to do exactly that again in France, where the choice is now between the far-right and the left, and the centrists appear to be uncertain which way to jump.

The issue isn't "Biden shouldn't be criticized". The problem is coverage of criticism should be proportional to the severity of the issues, and instead we have months of articles and editorials largely around "is the president too old?", and not "the former president wants to be re-elected to act out his revenge fantasies and continue criming."

 

[Brainonska511]

It is kind of unbelievable that he moved way to the left of Obama and people are still pissed off at him. The left flank needs to learn how to take some satisfaction from actually achieving some of their goals like the Republican right flank does.

The lessons politicians are going to learn:
1) ending wars is bad optics, better to let conflicts continue to burn
2) stimulus to keep people employed is bad if inflation ticks up a little (even if wages largely keep up or exceed inflation), so say hello to more unemployment and austerity the next time around
3) getting bills passed to start address climate change and fixing student loan forgiveness systems doesn't get votes, so forget about those appearing front and center in the future

 

[K1052]

The lessons politicians are going to learn:
1) ending wars is bad optics, better to let conflicts continue to burn
2) stimulus to keep people employed is bad if inflation ticks up a little (even if wages largely keep up or exceed inflation), so say hello to more unemployment and austerity the next time around
3) getting bills passed to start address climate change and fixing student loan forgiveness systems doesn't get votes, so forget about those appearing front and center in the future

#2 is going to be the big take away long term. The electorate is more forgiving of a recession and massive unemployment than any inflation whatsoever.