**OFFICIAL WAR THREAD** 7th Calvary fights off Iraqi attack; Bush seeks 75 billion for war

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bauerbrazil

Senior member
Mar 21, 2000
359
0
0
Russian weapons? Hum, how about this?



British manufacturer's weapons linked to hidden cache of missiles

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN ON THE ROAD TO BASRA AND DAN MCDOUGALL


BRITISH troops mopping up Iraqi opposition outside Basra have discovered a large cache of weapons, including Russian-made cruise missiles and warheads, hidden inside fortified bunkers at a massive arsenal abandoned by Saddam Hussein?s disintegrating southern army.

It also emerged last night that a number of cargo crates amid the lethal arms depot bore the stamp and address of one of Britain?s most respected arms firms, Wallop Defence Systems, which supplies guided missiles technology to the British and United States army. Wallop, a subsidiary of Cobham plc, a British aviation conglomerate, is based in Middle Wallop, Hampshire, and specialises in high-reliability Missile Tracking Flares for tail-tracked guided missiles and electrically-initiated Rocket Motor Igniters.

The weapons cache was discovered as forward units from the Black Watch regiment came across the abandoned Az Zubayr heliport base on the outskirts of Basra and penetrated a network of bunkers beneath the complex.

As the Black Watch unit explored the bunkers, they were given an alarming insight into Iraq?s weapons capability as they discovered cases of rockets, giant anti-shipping mines and other ammunition piled from floor to ceiling in dozens of individual storage bunkers.

The vast military complex, to the south-west of Basra, is defended by a network of earth works, with tanks and other armoured vehicles dug in to the surrounding area .

Outside the complex, Black Watch units searched around 40 bunkers packed with a mixture of RPGs and other ammunition. Inside the perimeter, 22 larger fortified bunkers containing larger weaponry, including the al-Harith missiles, were discovered.

The missiles, with al-Harith 2002 stencilled in red paint on the side and covered with Cyrillic writing, were housed in 60ft long concrete bunkers, 25ft high, buried under earth and protected by sliding steel double doors one foot thick.

Painted grey, they had two wings, each about 2ft in span, and three tail fins on a similar size. There was no indication of the nature of the warheads fitted and experts have been called in to examine the find.

Also housed inside the reinforced bunkers were what appeared to be large anti-shipping mines, 3ft in diameter, and a host of other munitions. On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran".

According to one senior Black Watch officer, a number of the boxes were clearly marked with the names of British manufacturers and one pile of crates in a store housing rocket-propelled grenades bore the name of Wallop .

It is not known how the weapons were sourced or indeed how they ended up in Iraqi hands but sources from the Ministry of Defence claimed that the find highlighted the threat from the burgeoning black market arms trade across the Middle East.

In a related development, the US said it had protested to Moscow about reports Russian firms have sold Iraq anti-tank missiles, night vision goggles and jamming gear. A spokeswoman for the State Department said Moscow?s response had not been satisfactory.

In 1991, Wallop industries denied links to Iraq after secret documents found by Kurdish protesters in the Iraqi embassy showed Iraqi diplomats in London were at the hub of a widespread arms and ammunition procurement network going back at least ten years.

The documents seized by the Kurds allegedly showed that during the Iran-Iraq war, the Iraqis tried to buy British rocket launchers to deflect missiles from armoured cars and helicopters. One document showed that Lt-Col S M Salman, an Iraqi military attaché, had approached Wallop Industry Ltd in April 1984, for samples of 57mm rocket launchers which "could be installed on armoured cars and helicopters". The Iraqis wanted infra-red and chaff rockets to deflect heat-seeking missiles and fool radar systems.

The approach was rejected, according to Clive Rushton, the company?s finance director, who said at the time: "We made no supplies to Iraq at all. We receive many such inquiries, including from unfriendly countries, but our records show that we never supplied such goods to that country."

After the find, 28 Kurds were found guilty of conspiring to cause criminal damage following their illegal occupation of the embassy.

Several Black Watch units yesterday were involved in skirmishes with pockets of Iraqi troops and with civilians close to the heliport who had seized abandoned weaponry.

One unit came under attack from rocket-propelled grenades four times, but each attack failed to find its target and there were no casualties.
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
aahhh good ole Hans would have found all that stuff anyway, besides we all know saddam was only going to sell those to raise money for day care centers so Iraqi women could work.....
 

AAman

Golden Member
May 29, 2001
1,432
0
0
up to a thousand miles, depending on the type, all of iraq is in range from the gulf, but flight time is longer,
and easier to shoot 'em down with long flight time (more likely to miss too, like those
that fell in Turkey)
 

Iwentsouth

Senior member
Oct 19, 2001
355
0
0
Also housed inside the reinforced bunkers were what appeared to be large anti-shipping mines, 3ft in diameter, and a host of other munitions. On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran".

Wow great proof Britain violated sanctions. Is this Back to the Future weapons violations?
 

sandorski

No Lifer
Oct 10, 1999
70,128
5,657
126
Originally posted by: Iwentsouth
Also housed inside the reinforced bunkers were what appeared to be large anti-shipping mines, 3ft in diameter, and a host of other munitions. On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran".

Wow great proof Britain violated sanctions. Is this Back to the Future weapons violations?

Some could be left over from the 80's, other's may have been acquired on the black market. It'll be interesting when the details are released.
 

Conky

Lifer
May 9, 2001
10,709
0
0
Isn't it remarkable that the best strategy the Iraqi military could come up with is the "surrender and then revolt" plan?

yes, they will slap the american on the face and kick them in the butt as they retreat...

Is it Iraq or Afghanistan where all that potent weed comes from?
 

da loser

Platinum Member
Oct 9, 1999
2,037
0
0
Originally posted by: Crazyfool
Isn't it remarkable that the best strategy the Iraqi military could come up with is the "surrender and then revolt" plan?
that is a very good stratey for them, fight with guerilla tactics near cities. the onus is on the us forces to beat them while obeying the laws. hopefully our commandos will outdo them in guerilla warfare (if they are used), because i doubt the convoys can defend themselves, nor provide adequate protection with the few forces there.

also cnn is reporting that basra is now a military target, to ensure aid is brought to the city safely, so british forces might be moving into the city... hopefully the people in basra will truly want coalition forces to win, otherwise it's going to be tough. apparently the 51st infantry that surrendered earlier, instead just moved their forces into the city. maybe, the editors of saddam really know what they're putting in his speeches in reference to that division.
 

HappyNic

Senior member
Oct 14, 2001
641
0
0
Originally posted by: datalink7
Originally posted by: Alistar7
Originally posted by: BunLengthHotDog
If I'm not mistaken the armament is automatically "safetied" when an apache touches down.

All such safeties can be manually over-ridden.


I would have pretended to surrender and then opened fire.......:disgust:

No sh!t :disgust:

Along with the cannon there's also 8 hellfire missles, with at much firepower, even grounded you're still deadly. If there's no way around it and I'll be force to surrender or die, I'll for sure not let them have that Apache longbow intact, if it kills me then fuXK it. If we don't distroy that Apache soon, it'll be taken apart and sold to other countrys.

Oh, When happen to the bulletproff glass for the cannopy, when did they cut the buget.


 

LandRover

Golden Member
Sep 30, 2000
1,750
0
76
I heard on MSNBC or CNN that they had tried to destroy the longbow. They couldn't confirm it was destroyed due to a sand storm.
 

Eli

Super Moderator | Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
50,422
8
81
Originally posted by: bauerbrazil
Russian weapons? Hum, how about this?



British manufacturer's weapons linked to hidden cache of missiles

GETHIN CHAMBERLAIN ON THE ROAD TO BASRA AND DAN MCDOUGALL


BRITISH troops mopping up Iraqi opposition outside Basra have discovered a large cache of weapons, including Russian-made cruise missiles and warheads, hidden inside fortified bunkers at a massive arsenal abandoned by Saddam Hussein?s disintegrating southern army.

It also emerged last night that a number of cargo crates amid the lethal arms depot bore the stamp and address of one of Britain?s most respected arms firms, Wallop Defence Systems, which supplies guided missiles technology to the British and United States army. Wallop, a subsidiary of Cobham plc, a British aviation conglomerate, is based in Middle Wallop, Hampshire, and specialises in high-reliability Missile Tracking Flares for tail-tracked guided missiles and electrically-initiated Rocket Motor Igniters.

The weapons cache was discovered as forward units from the Black Watch regiment came across the abandoned Az Zubayr heliport base on the outskirts of Basra and penetrated a network of bunkers beneath the complex.

As the Black Watch unit explored the bunkers, they were given an alarming insight into Iraq?s weapons capability as they discovered cases of rockets, giant anti-shipping mines and other ammunition piled from floor to ceiling in dozens of individual storage bunkers.

The vast military complex, to the south-west of Basra, is defended by a network of earth works, with tanks and other armoured vehicles dug in to the surrounding area .

Outside the complex, Black Watch units searched around 40 bunkers packed with a mixture of RPGs and other ammunition. Inside the perimeter, 22 larger fortified bunkers containing larger weaponry, including the al-Harith missiles, were discovered.

The missiles, with al-Harith 2002 stencilled in red paint on the side and covered with Cyrillic writing, were housed in 60ft long concrete bunkers, 25ft high, buried under earth and protected by sliding steel double doors one foot thick.

Painted grey, they had two wings, each about 2ft in span, and three tail fins on a similar size. There was no indication of the nature of the warheads fitted and experts have been called in to examine the find.

Also housed inside the reinforced bunkers were what appeared to be large anti-shipping mines, 3ft in diameter, and a host of other munitions. On one box, written in English, were the words: "Contract AS Navy. 5/1980 Iran".

According to one senior Black Watch officer, a number of the boxes were clearly marked with the names of British manufacturers and one pile of crates in a store housing rocket-propelled grenades bore the name of Wallop .

It is not known how the weapons were sourced or indeed how they ended up in Iraqi hands but sources from the Ministry of Defence claimed that the find highlighted the threat from the burgeoning black market arms trade across the Middle East.

In a related development, the US said it had protested to Moscow about reports Russian firms have sold Iraq anti-tank missiles, night vision goggles and jamming gear. A spokeswoman for the State Department said Moscow?s response had not been satisfactory.

In 1991, Wallop industries denied links to Iraq after secret documents found by Kurdish protesters in the Iraqi embassy showed Iraqi diplomats in London were at the hub of a widespread arms and ammunition procurement network going back at least ten years.

The documents seized by the Kurds allegedly showed that during the Iran-Iraq war, the Iraqis tried to buy British rocket launchers to deflect missiles from armoured cars and helicopters. One document showed that Lt-Col S M Salman, an Iraqi military attaché, had approached Wallop Industry Ltd in April 1984, for samples of 57mm rocket launchers which "could be installed on armoured cars and helicopters". The Iraqis wanted infra-red and chaff rockets to deflect heat-seeking missiles and fool radar systems.

The approach was rejected, according to Clive Rushton, the company?s finance director, who said at the time: "We made no supplies to Iraq at all. We receive many such inquiries, including from unfriendly countries, but our records show that we never supplied such goods to that country."

After the find, 28 Kurds were found guilty of conspiring to cause criminal damage following their illegal occupation of the embassy.

Several Black Watch units yesterday were involved in skirmishes with pockets of Iraqi troops and with civilians close to the heliport who had seized abandoned weaponry.

One unit came under attack from rocket-propelled grenades four times, but each attack failed to find its target and there were no casualties.

Interesting.

They have all this stuff.. but they're apparently too stupid to use it?
 

joohang

Lifer
Oct 22, 2000
12,340
1
0
Originally posted by: Millennium
Originally posted by: joohang
If we were allowed to pander a little less to political opinion; we would not need more troops.

How so?

We have several objective we have to achieve or the world will freak out. Namely prevent Israel from getting attacked(taking out the SCUDS) which will prevent the Arab states from jumping in; secondly we haven't used the MOAB or other ordinance because it would piss people off.

My statement was a generalization, but I thought it pretty self explainatory.

I just wanted to hear what you had in mind when you said that.

And now I understand your point better.
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
With regard to the accusations of British firms selling arms to Iraq. Please read this BBC [L=link [url]http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/2880619.stm[/url][/L] for further insight. It seems no such arms changed hands after all.

Andy
 

Fencer128

Platinum Member
Jun 18, 2001
2,700
1
91
"Tycoon Boris Berezovsky held in London on request of Russian authorities. More soon."

Just up from the BBC. I suspect this may have something to do with the stories claiming illegal arms sales to Iraq... anyone know who this guy is?

EDIT: It seems not (see below). The guy's *just* a big time gangster.

Andy
 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Originally posted by: Fencer128
"Tycoon Boris Berezovsky held in London on request of Russian authorities. More soon."

Just up from the BBC. I suspect this may have something to do with the stories claiming illegal arms sales to Iraq... anyone know who this guy is?

Andy

Amazon.com
Paul Klebnikov tells the incredible story of Boris Berezovsky, a one-time Russian car dealer who assembled a huge--and illicit--fortune after the collapse of Communism. "This individual had risen out of nowhere to become the richest businessman in Russia and one of the most powerful individuals in the country," writes Klebnikov, a respected reporter for Forbes. "This is a story of corruption so profound that many readers might have trouble believing it." Yet Godfather of the Kremlin is a careful work of journalism in which Klebnikov documents the business dealings of a man who once bragged to the Financial Times that he and six other men controlled half of the Russian economy and rigged Boris Yeltsin's reelection in 1996. Berezovsky survived both an assassination attempt and a murder investigation, and paved the way to power for Vladimir Putin. He and the other crony capitalists of post-Soviet Russia like to rationalize their deeds, writes Klebnikov: "Whenever I asked Russia's business magnates about the orgy of crime produced by the market reforms, they invariably excused it by pointing to the robber barons of American capitalism. Russia's bandit capitalism was no different from American capitalism in the late nineteenth century, they argued." Yet nothing could be further from the truth: Carnegie, Rockefeller, and their peers transformed the United States into an economic superpower. Berezovsky, on the other hand, has "produced no benefit to Russia's consumers, industries, or treasury." It's not that he didn't have an opportunity. To pick one example among many, he took over Aeroflot when it had a monopoly position in a booming market. But the company barely grew, and instead experienced myriad problems. Berezovsky controlled many businesses, but he was a lousy business manager; his only authentic success--as an auto dealer--depended on collusion. His real skill is shady dealmaking, especially with corrupt government officials. That's the way to success in modern Russia, as this well-told but troubling book reveals. --John J. Miller
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Posted on Tue, Mar. 25, 2003

Russian Tycoon Berezovsky Nabbed in U.K.
Associated Press

LONDON - British police said Tuesday they have arrested Russian tycoon Boris Berezovsky for alleged fraud at the request of the Russian authorities. An extradition request charges that Berezovsky defrauded the administration of Russia's Samara region while director of a company called LogoVaz between Jan. 1, 1994 and Dec. 31, 1995. The Metropolitan Police said officers arrested Berezovsky in London early Monday. A LogoVaz associate, Yuli Dubov, was also arrested Monday, police said.

Berezovsky and Dubov were due to appear at Bow Street Magistrates Court on April 2, police said.

A Moscow court last October issued an arrest warrant for Berezovsky, Dubov and another associate in connection with the theft of cars from Russia's largest carmaker AvtoVaz.

LogoVaz was the official dealer for AvtoVaz and later functioned as the holding company for a range of Berezovsky investments. Dubov was general director of LogoVaz.

Berezovsky is one of the so-called "oligarchs" who amassed huge wealth during Boris Yeltsin's years as president. Berezovsky has said the various charges against him are retaliation for his criticism of Russian President Vladimir Putin.



 

dahunan

Lifer
Jan 10, 2002
18,191
3
0
Never to be seen again ??

This could be a huge drama.. if that man still has all his wealth then what if he hired a hit on Putin?? :Q
 

snooker

Platinum Member
Apr 13, 2001
2,366
0
76
Being reported on MSNBC that The British are declaring Basra a battlezone/warzone..... All hell is getting ready to break loose in the city itself.....
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Just now heard Walter Rodgers' report from 3-7 CAV on CNN. Elements of that unit recently crossed the Euphrates river under fire. Heck of a report. Firefights all throughout the day yesterday. Got me all fired up. GO BIG GREEN MACHINE !
 

Alistar7

Lifer
May 13, 2002
11,983
0
0
Stands to reason he would use his WMD as a last ditch effort to hold of forces, he knows they will be found anyway, once he is DEAD, so why not use them.....
 
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