**OFFICIAL WAR THREAD** 7th Calvary fights off Iraqi attack; Bush seeks 75 billion for war

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn
I can't believe all the hand wringing going on about a Helicopter getting shot down or us incurring causulties. THis is war and we are going to lose some troops and equipment. I can assure you that for every one american killed of wounded there are a 100 Iraqi Wags meeting Allah in person and for every Apache shot down 10 or 20 Iraqi Tanks are getting blown to smithereens.

This is basically what Saddam and Iraq are hoping on and why they drug dead bodies out on TV for the world to see. They are hoping for a repeat of Beirut and Somalia.

 

[timberwolf1]

Sigh. When will this silly war end? Enough already.

 

[Alistar7]

silly?

 

[MoobyTheGoldenCalf]

Originally posted by: timberwolf1
Sigh. When will this silly war end? Enough already.

It will end after the US kicks enough Iraqi ass. Now take this crap to the anti-war thread.

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: timberwolf1
Sigh. When will this silly war end? Enough already.

Never had to start, someone was given the chance to walk away and spare his country and his people.....

 

[ThePresence]

I just downloaded the AL Jazeera videos of the prisoners and the bodies. My hatred knows no bounds. :|

 

[Alistar7]

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I just downloaded the AL Jazeera videos of the prisoners and the bodies. My hatred knows no bounds. :|

makes you want to suit up and get in the mix..........

 

[ThePresence]

Originally posted by: Alistar7

Originally posted by: ThePresence
I just downloaded the AL Jazeera videos of the prisoners and the bodies. My hatred knows no bounds. :|

makes you want to suit up and get in the mix..........

Yeah, it really does. I wanna put a hole in the forehead of that bastard, smiling while playing around with the dead bodies. :|:|

 

[SP33Demon]

What's the latest on the Apache? Have they found it yet?

 

[CaptnKirk]

Why do you perceive we would have any trouble moving troops to the North side of Baghdad?
These sould suffice

People wake up this is a WAR ! people on both sides die - it's not a stupid video game
where you can save or re-start if you don't like the way it played.

Soldiers in Civilian clothes ? Saw that when I was in 'Nam
British Army saw it when the Colonies rebelled - that's OUR contribution to history of warfare.

Overconfidence, over-eagerness, and complacency get you killed.
Someone wasn't paying attention to details & got ambushed.

When the Supply convoy got lost - where were their combat support patrols or airborne defense ?
Good Lord people - we can see down to the size of a car from a satellite, and a new satellite enters
the viewing theatre evry 5 minutes, Aircraft can resolve down to a beanbag chair if it's in high command,
and down to a grapefruit if its on the low observation command - why wasn't it noticed ?
Where would your reflexes and responses be after 72 hours on the roll with little sleep ?

I hope that they don't outrun their own supply lines bringing fuel and supplies from the south.
What good are superior tanks and assault vehicles when they are stranded and out of gas.
Rommel (Germany) lost his tanks in the desert because they got out of supply reach.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repete it.

 

[Tom]

"Why do you perceive we would have any trouble moving troops to the North side of Baghdad?"

I'm not saying we couldn't move troops north of Baghdad, I'm asking if anyone wants to discuss whether it's necessary or not, given the problems I mentioned, and if we are doing it, or not ?

 

[GTaudiophile]

I hope you all heard Rush Limbaugh's opening monologue today. He addressed what we're all feeling; this rollercoaster of emotions.

To put things in perspective, we lost more American soldiers in the first 5 minutes of the Normandy Invasion than we have in the first 5 days of this entire war. I think it was foolish for anyone to think that we'd take over a country with no casualties.

The problem is that never before in the history of warfare has the public been so involved from so far way. With the media and Internet, the public is more involved than ever. Problem is, the public isn't prepared for the intensity, whereas our soldiers are.

 

[jemcam]

Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Why do you perceive we would have any trouble moving troops to the North side of Baghdad?
These sould suffice

People wake up this is a WAR ! people on both sides die - it's not a stupid video game
where you can save or re-start if you don't like the way it played.

Soldiers in Civilian clothes ? Saw that when I was in 'Nam
British Army saw it when the Colonies rebelled - that's OUR contribution to history of warfare.

Overconfidence, over-eagerness, and complacency get you killed.
Someone wasn't paying attention to details & got ambushed.

When the Supply convoy got lost - where were their combat support patrols or airborne defense ?
Good Lord people - we can see down to the size of a car from a satellite, and a new satellite enters
the viewing theatre evry 5 minutes, Aircraft can resolve down to a beanbag chair if it's in high command,
and down to a grapefruit if its on the low observation command - why wasn't it noticed ?
Where would your reflexes and responses be after 72 hours on the roll with little sleep ?

I hope that they don't outrun their own supply lines bringing fuel and supplies from the south.
What good are superior tanks and assault vehicles when they are stranded and out of gas.
Rommel (Germany) lost his tanks in the desert because they got out of supply reach.

Those who do not learn from history are doomed to repete it.

You need to remember that it is impossible to watch every unit that's on the ground. Convoy Commanders are usually fairly young, inexperienced lieutenanats and it's very easy to get lost in unfamiliar, unmarked territory, especially at night. Being Convoy Commander is usually assigned to the greenest lieutenant because it does teach you a lot of the basics such as issuing warning orders, movement orders, planning, concentration, and attention to detail. It's easy to armchair quarterback, but I was once a young 2LT myself, and it's a reality that just about every lieutenant gets their unit lost at one time or another. I never had GPS, just a trusty topo map and a compass, with the driver giving me distance by watching the odometer. It's very embarrasing to have to turn around an entire convoy and be in the lead vehicle and see everyone's face and knowing they're thinking you're an idiot. I did take consolation in the fact that I had seen it happen before. It's not like driving a car or giving directions while sitting in the passenger seat while relaxing in the quiet A/C. And it's especially difficult to get 30+ vehicles turned around on a narrow dirt road, especially when many of those vehicles are almost the size of an 18 wheeler.

It's a very easy mistake to make, especially under the strain of war. These are the kinds of mistakes that were used an example of what inattention to detail will cause when I was in OCS. I don't know if anyone remembers the lieutenant back in the mid 80's that was court martialed because he left a marine out in the desert in California on a training exercise simply because he forgot to get a headcount before they left. The guy died of dehydration. They didn't even know he was missing for a couple of days, and by that time, he was probably already dead.

 

[Red Dawn]

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I hope you all heard Rush Limbaugh's opening monologue today. He addressed what we're all feeling; this rollercoaster of emotions.

To put things in perspective, we lost more American soldiers in the first 5 minutes of the Normandy Invasion than we have in the first 5 days of this entire war. I think it was foolish for anyone to think that we'd take over a country with no casualties.

The problem is that never before in the history of warfare has the public been so involved from so far way. With the media and Internet, the public is more involved than ever. Problem is, the public isn't prepared for the intensity, whereas our soldiers are.

I noticed that a lot of people who posted in these Forums about the war prior to it starting were talking about how easy it would be. The News Channels like Fox and CNN didn't help matters reporting early on that it was going to be easy.

One thing I don't feel comfortable about with this war is the fact that we don't secure towns in our big rush to Baghdad. It seems we are leaving our flanks wide open to the Wags who are taking advantage of that fact to hit our supply lines with Guerilla tactics. Maybe we need more troops to occupy this towns and cities as the inhabititants only seem to want to cause us harm.

 

[jemcam]

When the Supply convoy got lost - where were their combat support patrols or airborne defense ?

It was a maintenance unit, and they usually are in the rear of any movement to pick up stragglers and repair vehicles that have broken down. They provide their own security in the form of .50 cal machine guns in a ring mount, along with issued personal weapons. They train extensively to protect themselves from air and ground attack. The theory is that if they are following along behind the main advancement, there should not be much resistance anyway. In this case, they made a wrong turn and were no longer following the main body.

 

[olds]

Marine and Army units are complaining that they are not being allowed to use enough force.
Source:
Question during Whitehouse briefing.

 

[PG]

CBS News reports that some high-ranking Iraqi prisoners were carrying Cipro.
CBS News Correspondent Phil Ittner reports that Army doctors who treated some Iraqi prisoners of war, believed to be some high-ranking Iraqi officials, found Cipro pills among the Iraqis? personal possessions.

Cipro is meant to ward off the effects of a biological attack from several toxic agents, foremost among them, anthrax.

http://littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/?archive=032003

 

[Mill]

Originally posted by: Red Dawn

Originally posted by: GTaudiophile
I hope you all heard Rush Limbaugh's opening monologue today. He addressed what we're all feeling; this rollercoaster of emotions.

To put things in perspective, we lost more American soldiers in the first 5 minutes of the Normandy Invasion than we have in the first 5 days of this entire war. I think it was foolish for anyone to think that we'd take over a country with no casualties.

The problem is that never before in the history of warfare has the public been so involved from so far way. With the media and Internet, the public is more involved than ever. Problem is, the public isn't prepared for the intensity, whereas our soldiers are.

I noticed that a lot of people who posted in these Forums about the war prior to it starting were talking about how easy it would be. The News Channels like Fox and CNN didn't help matters reporting early on that it was going to be easy.

One thing I don't feel comfortable about with this war is the fact that we don't secure towns in our big rush to Baghdad. It seems we are leaving our flanks wide open to the Wags who are taking advantage of that fact to hit our supply lines with Guerilla tactics. Maybe we need more troops to occupy this towns and cities as the inhabititants only seem to want to cause us harm.

If we were allowed to pander a little less to political opinion; we would not need more troops.

 

[rickn]

I think Iraqi TV is in its last days

 

[Tom]

"One thing I don't feel comfortable about with this war is the fact that we don't secure towns in our big rush to Baghdad."

I have the same feeling. While I think things have gone reasonably well so far I think the current war plan relies on a large number of Iraqis surrendering. If this happens then the very quick advance may pay off. If it doesn't then we may need to be more deliberate about securing the territory as we go. This is really part of the same thing I am getting at as far as securing Northern Iraq too.

This more deliberate plan may take several months, or longer, rather than a few weeks. I'm sure we all want it to be over soon but we need to be prepared for a longer war and significant casualties. Personally I think after 9/11 the American people are prepared to do what is necessary.

 

[Michael]

The tactics being used by Iraq are age-old. They were used by Russia in WW II. Give up territory and allow the tank columns to penetrate far into the country. Use special security forces to prop up the troops (shoot them if they do not fight, it was the NKVD in Russia, SS for Germany near the end of the war). Attack the rear areas with "partisans" to tie up troops. Fight in urban areas where individual solier skill means less and equipment superiority means less.

From what the US leaders have been saying (and the news media, I have seen a few discussions of what Iraq could do that is pretty much what I said above), this is what they expected and planned for.

I think that we will suffer many more losses before this is over, but that we will prevail.

Michael

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: Dead Parrot Sketch
"One thing I don't feel comfortable about with this war is the fact that we don't secure towns in our big rush to Baghdad."

I have the same feeling. While I think things have gone reasonably well so far I think the current war plan relies on a large number of Iraqis surrendering. If this happens then the very quick advance may pay off. If it doesn't then we may need to be more deliberate about securing the territory as we go. This is really part of the same thing I am getting at as far as securing Northern Iraq too.

This more deliberate plan may take several months, or longer, rather than a few weeks. I'm sure we all want it to be over soon but we need to be prepared for a longer war and significant casualties. Personally I think after 9/11 the American people are prepared to do what is necessary.

I think the train of thought is that the major Iraqi military forces are located in and around Baghdad. Everything in the rear is smaller forces that are not well-equipped and can only resort to harrassment and ambush tactics. Best to rush your main force forward to face their main force and quickly take Baghdad and the leadership out. The rest of the country should fall once Saddam's regime is gone.

 

[mrbentley]

DJ News Highlights: No Chem Weapons Found At Iraq Najaf Site

 

[Queasy]

Originally posted by: mrbentley
DJ News Highlights: No Chem Weapons Found At Iraq Najaf Site

I don't think Iraq would keep any chemical weapons there....especially not once it was obvious that war was about to start.

 

[BeauJangles]

Does anyone else have a hard time sitting back, going around your normal routine, knowning that other Americans are off dying for you? It's been really bothering me lately, to the extent that I feel I need to do something about it. I dunno, it just doesn't seem fair at all. I'm 18 years old, white, middle class. I've never been in a fight or in trouble or anything. Yet, my life seems so priviledged compared to those that have to fight right know. It really bothers me that soldiers are out there dying for me.

*sigh*