Official World Cup Soccer Thread

Page 127 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
That was the ultimate 'throwing yourself on a hand grenade' moment for Saurez...very smart play. Should be directing anger on Gyan for missing that one...
 

nCred

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2003
1,106
107
106
lol @ "it's not cheating because the rules dictate a specific way to handle the violation."

To say that it is not cheating when someone intentionally violates the rules of the game to prevent an otherwise unavoidable loss is absurd. I can't wrap my head around saying that it's not cheating because it's just a violation of the rules. If that handball was not cheating, what is?

Using performance enhancing drugs is not cheating in any sport; it's just a calculated risk, because the rules prescribe a specific punishment - right?

That was not fair play.
Yeah and every time a player breaks the rules in the game it´s cheating?
 

RapidSnail

Diamond Member
Apr 28, 2006
4,257
0
0
In a game where so very few goals are scored, goaltending is a much more serious issue than tackling fouls. Both happen to be rewarded with a penalty kick if they occur within the box, but the fact that you can stop a sure goal illegally so that the ensuing penalty carriers at least a small chance of defensive reward is pathetic. It should be at the discretion of the referee to be able to award goals in such cases, in much the same way that basketball awards goaltending and football four downs at the goal line if defensive pass interference occurs in the endzone (a rough equivalent). There is no reason that player should be able to gamble like this in a game of skill. Combined with terrible officiating, theatrics, and such unsportsmanlike play, FIFA needs to step up and reconsider their approach to such tactics.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
The difference though is that steroid use is against Federal law. And as much as we (baseball) might not like it, juicers do not get their HR's, hits, wins, etc. removed.

That difference is not relevant to whether or not it is cheating.
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
lol @ "it's not cheating because the rules dictate a specific way to handle the violation."

To say that it is not cheating when someone intentionally violates the rules of the game to prevent an otherwise unavoidable loss is absurd. I can't wrap my head around saying that it's not cheating because it's just a violation of the rules. If that handball was not cheating, what is?

Using performance enhancing drugs is not cheating in any sport; it's just a calculated risk, because the rules prescribe a specific punishment - right?

That was not fair play.

So, in basketball for instance, every time a poor free-throw shooter is deliberately fouled, or when a player is wrapped in a bear hug in order to prevent a dunk, that's cheating?
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
I think you're missing the point. Flipped said the defender (on the field)makes the face mask not some guy coming off the bench.

Steroids is a huge jump from in-game play. Or else, gee, sending a guy to break someone's leg is okay since the guy will just get red carded and clearly this is not the same thing.

Goalies get red carded regularly for making a bad challenge against a wide open guy. It's pretty much a sure goal, but the GK takes out the guy on offense and gives up the PK. I don't see that as cheating.

Guys regularly make studs-first tackles and get yellow carded for it. It's not great, but it's a foul. They get penalized and everyone moves on.
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
That difference is not relevant to whether or not it is cheating.

It could be, though, depending on how MLB interprets things. A player who is convicted of a crime could be barred from playing, depending on how the team or MLB commissioner chooses to interpret "codes of conduct".
 

KMFJD

Lifer
Aug 11, 2005
30,031
45,271
136
He cheated and was dealt with according to the rules of the game, if you handball within the box and prevent a sure goal, you are given a red card and opposition get's a penalty kick.

/outrage not found
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
I would completely be *for* modifying the rules and awarding a goal for a "goal tending" foul like that, but this is FIFA we're talking about. They make Bud Selig and David Stern look awesome.
 

mugs

Lifer
Apr 29, 2003
48,920
46
91
But in my example, no player came off the bench.

Really? You read that and concluded that the only situation where it would apply is if a player comes off the bench? :hmm: That was an example. Read the rule.

"When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown"

Your example of facemasking wouldn't have deprived the team of a touchdown, because a tackle by the facemask could have just as easily been a tackle by some other part of the body. You picked a bad example.

What we saw was a palpably unfair act. To dispute that would be absurd. Unfortunately the rules of soccer allow palpably unfair acts to alter the outcome of a game. Unfortunately for Ghana that is, fortunately for Uruguay. Ghana deserved to win that game, and they were robbed by the deficient rules of soccer.

Yeah and every time a player breaks the rules in the game it´s cheating?

No. See above. A sensible person can easily recognize the difference between cheating and simply violating the rules.
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
In a game where so very few goals are scored, goaltending is a much more serious issue than tackling fouls. Both happen to be rewarded with a penalty kick if they occur within the box, but the fact that you can stop a sure goal illegally so that the ensuing penalty carriers at least a small chance of defensive reward is pathetic. It should be at the discretion of the referee to be able to award goals in such cases, in much the same way that basketball awards goaltending and football four downs at the goal line if defensive pass interference occurs in the endzone (a rough equivalent). There is no reason that player should be able to gamble like this in a game of skill. Combined with terrible officiating, theatrics, and such unsportsmanlike play, FIFA needs to step up and reconsider their approach to such tactics.

This is exactly like American football if the defender takes out a sure reception by taking out the receiver. There's a very high chance of scoring on first and goal from the 1 after PI in the end zone. Soccer pretty much does the equivalent with their PK. Both are almost a sure chance to score but you still have to score against the other guy's D after the blatant foul.

By the way, the only reason anyone cares is that Gyan missed the PK. In the group phase, Australia had the exact same thing happen but no one cared at all because the guy made the PK.
 
Last edited:

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
Really? You read that and concluded that the only situation where it would apply is if a player comes off the bench? :hmm: That was an example. Read the rule.

"When Referee determines a palpably unfair act deprived a team of a touchdown"

I just followed what you cited from the NFL rules. You should have come up with a more relevant example, then.

What we saw was a palpably unfair act. To dispute that would be absurd. Unfortunately the rules of soccer allow palpably unfair acts to alter the outcome of a game. Unfortunately for Ghana that is, fortunately for Uruguay. Ghana deserved to win that game, and they were robbed by the deficient rules of soccer.

Then perhaps the rules of soccer need to be changed. But until the rules are changed to something more punitive in-game, Suarez made the only action that could save his team.
 

nCred

Golden Member
Oct 13, 2003
1,106
107
106
No. See above. A sensible person can easily recognize the difference between cheating and simply violating the rules.

umm. So where is the line drawn? If you tackle another player to stop him when you have no chance to reach the ball is it cheating or "simply violating the rules"?

This has happened so many times before and yet the rules have not changed. A penelty and red card is seen as punishment enough. This time was special because it was in the last minute but you can't have different rules in different parts of the game.
 
Last edited:

TheWart

Diamond Member
Dec 17, 2000
5,219
1
76
In a game where so very few goals are scored, goaltending is a much more serious issue than tackling fouls. Both happen to be rewarded with a penalty kick if they occur within the box, but the fact that you can stop a sure goal illegally so that the ensuing penalty carriers at least a small chance of defensive reward is pathetic. It should be at the discretion of the referee to be able to award goals in such cases, in much the same way that basketball awards goaltending and football four downs at the goal line if defensive pass interference occurs in the endzone (a rough equivalent). There is no reason that player should be able to gamble like this in a game of skill. Combined with terrible officiating, theatrics, and such unsportsmanlike play, FIFA needs to step up and reconsider their approach to such tactics.

This. I agree 100%.
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
In a game where so very few goals are scored, goaltending is a much more serious issue than tackling fouls. Both happen to be rewarded with a penalty kick if they occur within the box, but the fact that you can stop a sure goal illegally so that the ensuing penalty carriers at least a small chance of defensive reward is pathetic. It should be at the discretion of the referee to be able to award goals in such cases, in much the same way that basketball awards goaltending and football four downs at the goal line if defensive pass interference occurs in the endzone (a rough equivalent). There is no reason that player should be able to gamble like this in a game of skill. Combined with terrible officiating, theatrics, and such unsportsmanlike play, FIFA needs to step up and reconsider their approach to such tactics.

Isn't that almost exactly the same thing as awarding a penalty kick? :hmm:

KT
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
Maybe if a player is guilty of a handball in the goal area, in addition to the red card & suspension, the team should not be allowed to substitute for him, so the game is played 10 on 11?
 

KeithTalent

Elite Member | Administrator | No Lifer
Administrator
Nov 30, 2005
50,231
117
116
Maybe if a player is guilty of a handball in the goal area, in addition to the red card & suspension, the team should not be allowed to substitute for him, so the game is played 10 on 11?

That already happens. Red card means you are kicked out of the current game too, with no substitution allowed.

KT
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
Maybe if a player is guilty of a handball in the goal area, in addition to the red card & suspension, the team should not be allowed to substitute for him, so the game is played 10 on 11?

It's already that way. Red card means you're a man down for the rest of the match. The Australia hand ball happened against Ghana (go figure) and Gyan made the PK that time. It was in the 24th minute so they played with 10 men against Ghana for the rest of the match.
 

Flipped Gazelle

Diamond Member
Sep 5, 2004
6,666
3
81
It's already that way. Red card means you're a man down for the rest of the match. The Australia hand ball happened against Ghana (go figure) and Gyan made the PK that time. It was in the 24th minute so they played with 10 men against Ghana for the rest of the match.

Are you sure? It looked pretty even to me, but then again I was also working on the kitchen so my attention was divided.

From WikiAnswers:

What do the cards in soccer mean?
In: Football - Soccer

In soccer a yellow card is used for a minor foul.
If you get two yellow cards in one game, you are given a red card.
If a red card is given the player has to leave the game and a substitute has to enter the playing field.
 

Zebo

Elite Member
Jul 29, 2001
39,398
19
81
Is anyone amazed by Uruguay with only 3 million people to draw from are in quarter finals? I bet everyone plays soccer there from the time they can walk! Anyway - really good game and that goalie was amazing blocking two. The Ghana player majorly screwed up hitting cross bar on the 11 meter,I bet he's in serious depression.
 

a123456

Senior member
Oct 26, 2006
885
0
0
Yeah, it was a pretty offensive game overall. Both teams had tons of scoring chances and just couldn't convert them.

Positive about the red card. ESPN always intermittently displays the "[Country] playing with 10 men" after a red card. The Laws of the Game pdf from FIFA doesn't really say anything about it. The regular Wiki (yeah, not the best source) has it that the guy can't be substituted for. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Penalty_card

The only thing I can think of is that if the GK gets the red card, teams will substitute a position player immediately so that the backup GK goes in goal and they have to take out a position player.

In today's game, the red card didn't matter for the match since it was the last play of the game, although Suarez will be suspended for the semifinal game. There were only 5 PKs for Uruguay also so missing one didn't turn out to be that big a deal. I assume if they had gotten to #11, it would have just cycled back to #1 since they only had 10 men left.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |