**Official Xbox 360 Jasper Hunting Thread**

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: Futile

Originally posted by: Jopopsy


Well, first things first. Best buy does not offer the same PRP anymore. The one you have is GOLD - as in top notch. The one you would buy with your next Xbox is crap. They don't swap them anymore - they send it out for you. Waste of money in my opnion.

As far as do you swap it out now or wait? Depends on how much you 'need' your 360. There is no clue as to when Jasper will arrive. We've all been wrong with our guesses. Only MS knows.

Board Members - obviously he bought a Falcon. I'm assuming he is in the minority with this problem?

Thanks for the info. I didn't know that the new replacement plans are like that now. I hope when I go down their monday they won't try to screw me and say they can only send it out for me.

I guess I should just go get a new one and hope for the best that it won't crap out on me because I don't have the means to keep buying new 360's everytime they break.

I'm getting the feeling with these new replacement plan procedures they're just going to lie to me and tell me they won't swap it out now. Crap..

Nope, you have a PRP. You are covered - have no fear. If you swap for a new one, they will offer you the 'Black Tie' protection. THAT is the crap one.

 

[Futile]

Originally posted by: Jopopsy

Nope, you have a PRP. You are covered - have no fear. If you swap for a new one, they will offer you the 'Black Tie' protection. THAT is the crap one.

Thanks again I apprechiate your help. I actually just called a Best Buy sales representative and he was telling me that they have only two plans. A Product Service Plan which they would send out to get it fixed or a Product Replacement Plan which would be swapped in the store.

I asked him if I renewed my "product replacement plan" in the second year just before my currect PRP expired if I could still swap out the product if defective in-store.

He mentioned again that there are only two warrenty plans which is PSP and PRP and as long as I get the PRP that I will always be able to swap it in-store.

I'm not calling you a liar or saying you're wrong I apprechiate your responses, but maybe the Best Buy sales representative is lieing to me? Or perhaps he doesn't know himself? I would be more inclinded to believe that Best Buy is lieing to me though. Go figure.

Keep in mind this is a Best Buy store located in San Antonio, Texas. Perhaps it all depends on which Best Buy this is delt with?

 

[RogCor]

very important question... with no Jasper in sight... jump on the Dell deal w 15% discount, or wait until after BF to see if units move into the Jasper range?

thoughts?

 

[Futile]

I'm getting the impression one should wait for this "Jasper" to show itself. Can't be too careful when it comes to the longevity of your console.

What's an extra 46 dollars anyway? If you can get $254 surely you can get $299. Have to remember that tax as well is about another 20-30 bucks.

Then agian like Jopopsy said, depends on how long you can "live without your xbox 360."

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: Futile

Originally posted by: Jopopsy

Nope, you have a PRP. You are covered - have no fear. If you swap for a new one, they will offer you the 'Black Tie' protection. THAT is the crap one.

Thanks again I apprechiate your help. I actually just called a Best Buy sales representative and he was telling me that they have only two plans. A Product Service Plan which they would send out to get it fixed or a Product Replacement Plan which would be swapped in the store.

I asked him if I renewed my "product replacement plan" in the second year just before my currect PRP expired if I could still swap out the product if defective in-store.

He mentioned again that there are only two warrenty plans which is PSP and PRP and as long as I get the PRP that I will always be able to swap it in-store.

I'm not calling you a liar or saying you're wrong I apprechiate your responses, but maybe the Best Buy sales representative is lieing to me? Or perhaps he doesn't know himself? I would be more inclinded to believe that Best Buy is lieing to me though. Go figure.

Keep in mind this is a Best Buy store located in San Antonio, Texas. Perhaps it all depends on which Best Buy this is delt with?

Could be regional differances. Go ahead and go to bestbuy.com, put the item in your cart, and see what sort of protection plan pops up as a add-on. Maybe it's regional, but over here I was told in 2 stores that they do not replace red-ring.

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: Futile
I'm getting the impression one should wait for this "Jasper" to show itself. Can't be too careful when it comes to the longevity of your console.

What's an extra 46 dollars anyway? If you can get $254 surely you can get $299. Have to remember that tax as well is about another 20-30 bucks.

Then agian like Jopopsy said, depends on how long you can "live without your xbox 360."

You COULD be waiting a long time. There is nothing to say that Jasper won't be a Spring or Summer release. Or it could come next week. I say if you want it, buy it. If it breaks, maybe the arcade version will be 175 or so by then. Then just swap the drive to your new (hopefully Jasper) arcade and you're back in business.

 

[Jediman 101]

Yay, Moderation =]

I think I'm going to buy an Xbox this week.

I'm almost sure I'll get a Falcon =/

 

[Futile]

Originally posted by: Jopopsy


Could be regional differances. Go ahead and go to bestbuy.com, put the item in your cart, and see what sort of protection plan pops up as a add-on. Maybe it's regional, but over here I was told in 2 stores that they do not replace red-ring.

Ok, I have called 2 different Best Buy locations trying to figure this out. The second one said it has changed to a "Black Tie" plan.

Very specifically I asked, "So I can still replace the xbox 360 in-store, though?" Reply, "Uh-huh."

I guess that isn't a very specific way to ask that question or even a specific way to answer it but I will be calling a 3rd Best Buy location and asking again.

(Still in mind these are San Antonio, Texas stores)

Edit:

Just called a 3rd store. Same thing. "Not called Replacement Plans anymore."

Asking, "So if my xbox 360 is found defective I can have it replaced with a brand new console in store?"

Answer, "Uh, yea, yeah, if it is still under warrenty."

Asking, "Even under the new 'Black Tie' warrenty?" "Yea, yeah."

So apparently Best Buy not replacing 360's in-store is a regional thing. Or... all 3 Best Buy customer representatives are lieing to me which really wouldn't surprise me. Sort of makes me feel better.

 

[JasperHunter]

Wow, this thread really took off today! I can't post at work the majority of the time, so here I am a bit late.

Anyways, a lot of people are asking "should I buy a Falcon now?" Well, that's a very personal decision. We have no clue when Jasper will be here. We have no real leads at this point as far as rumors from Microsoft. All the rumored dates and lot #'s have come and gone with no sign of Jasper.

I stated this before and I'll say it again - I bought a Falcon a little over a month ago and I couldn't be happier. Now, I want Jasper as much as anyone here, and will probably sell my Falcon when Jasper is widespread. If you're getting impatient, it's not that hard to buy a Falcon now, sell it later, and buy a Jasper when they're readily available.

Even if we discover Jasper tomorrow, it may be a while before you can find one locally to purchase. It may be even longer before you can reliably buy one online. If you really are in no rush at all, or have a working Xenon/Zephyr, then I think it would be easy to wait indefinitely. Just my 2 cents - as I said, it's a personal decision.

Originally posted by: middlep1
I suppose fan noise could be down to 2 things:

1) Different manfacturing teams have been reported to use different fans, apparently the CSON 360's use "brushless" fans and are quieter compared to the FDOU machines.

2) Noise differences between lot numbers from the same team could be down to slight variations in the fan compoents that manufacturer gets from their suppliers.

This is very true. Fan noise is very dependant on the fans and there is definitely at least two different models included with different noise profiles. They could introduce a new fan model at any time as well depending on component availability. So, console noise is really not a good indicator that Jasper might be lurking inside. The DVD drive is clearly the noisiest part anyways, although that's mitigated to an extent with HD installs via NXE.


I would like to reiterate that I do not believe the capacitor differences or various Falcon revs are significant at all. These differences are minor and are probably related to component availability more than anything. I think the information about silver (possibly solid?) caps on Xenons and the fact that there is no consistency on the newer lot numbers just confirms my point of view. There is no actual evidence whatsoever that these provide any improvement in reliability, heat production, or any other indicator of an improvement.

PS - I highly doubt this "source" from Argentina. That guy was very inconsistent in what he posted and I'm betting money he won't show up here where he can't be anonymous. Unless someone has a way to document their connection to Microsoft (Jake from 8bitjoystick for example), then I will remain skeptical of such random rumors posted by random people.

 

[Jopopsy]

Hey JasperHunter - I found this on the official Xbox forums (I assume from you)

I can't say too much about this, but based on my sources, there's a good chance that the 360 issues are more than just heat related. Yes, heat issues make it worse, but traditionally, the first signs of heat issues are with video corruption and crashes long before they result in complete hardware failures. And that's not what we're seeing with the RRoD, so I think there's more to it than heat. On top of that, I'm not convinced that maximally cooling an exisiting 360 (Zephy/Xenon/Falcon) will completely prevent RRoD, although it will probably delay it.

The reason I mention this, is that I believe a redesign of the GPU is the proper way to resolve the issue, and why I hope Jasper does fix it. This also means that with another die shrink to 45nm, and a proper GPU/CPU design, a slim Xbox is not out of the question. That said, they may not want to risk it after all that's happened. The reduced power requirement could possibly lend itself to an integrated PSU design in the existing case.

As usual, take my thoughts with a grain of salt - pure speculation here. I have ZERO evidence for this happening, just stating that it is in fact possible given the power profiles of the chips.

***********

Are you saying that most 360s, including Falcon and Jasper, are likely to fail no matter what?

 

[JasperHunter]

Originally posted by: Jopopsy
Hey JasperHunter - I found this on the official Xbox forums (I assume from you)

I can't say too much about this, but based on my sources, there's a good chance that the 360 issues are more than just heat related. Yes, heat issues make it worse, but traditionally, the first signs of heat issues are with video corruption and crashes long before they result in complete hardware failures. And that's not what we're seeing with the RRoD, so I think there's more to it than heat. On top of that, I'm not convinced that maximally cooling an exisiting 360 (Zephy/Xenon/Falcon) will completely prevent RRoD, although it will probably delay it.

The reason I mention this, is that I believe a redesign of the GPU is the proper way to resolve the issue, and why I hope Jasper does fix it. This also means that with another die shrink to 45nm, and a proper GPU/CPU design, a slim Xbox is not out of the question. That said, they may not want to risk it after all that's happened. The reduced power requirement could possibly lend itself to an integrated PSU design in the existing case.

As usual, take my thoughts with a grain of salt - pure speculation here. I have ZERO evidence for this happening, just stating that it is in fact possible given the power profiles of the chips.

***********

Are you saying that most 360s, including Falcon and Jasper, are likely to fail no matter what?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I do think the 90nm GPU was fundamentally flawed and that Falcon with it's 80nm GPU might be fundamentally flawed. I hope that Microsoft has fixed it for Jasper. It's possible they made some changes with the 80nm shrink for Falcon (if that is indeed what the Falcon GPU is). I could easily be wrong though and there's conflicting information out there about Falcon reliability. My personal opinion is that we're just now reaching the point where we would start to see significant Falcon failures. That is, if they're going to fail on a consistent basis. However, I have no proof of this whatsoever, just some highly educated guesses. I guess we'll find out over the next few months.

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: Futile

Originally posted by: Jopopsy


Could be regional differances. Go ahead and go to bestbuy.com, put the item in your cart, and see what sort of protection plan pops up as a add-on. Maybe it's regional, but over here I was told in 2 stores that they do not replace red-ring.

Ok, I have called 2 different Best Buy locations trying to figure this out. The second one said it has changed to a "Black Tie" plan.

Very specifically I asked, "So I can still replace the xbox 360 in-store, though?" Reply, "Uh-huh."

I guess that isn't a very specific way to ask that question or even a specific way to answer it but I will be calling a 3rd Best Buy location and asking again.

(Still in mind these are San Antonio, Texas stores)

Edit:

Just called a 3rd store. Same thing. "Not called Replacement Plans anymore."

Asking, "So if my xbox 360 is found defective I can have it replaced with a brand new console in store?"

Answer, "Uh, yea, yeah, if it is still under warrenty."

Asking, "Even under the new 'Black Tie' warrenty?" "Yea, yeah."

So apparently Best Buy not replacing 360's in-store is a regional thing. Or... all 3 Best Buy customer representatives are lieing to me which really wouldn't surprise me. Sort of makes me feel better.

Hey, this was covered in another forum.

http://forums.xbox.com/17/2229...ShowPost.aspx#22295670

 

[Squilliam]

This is Squilliam signing in. Interesting that I had an old username here. I get around more than I thought I guess.

 

[Nocturne2112]

Sup fellas, joining in from the other thread.

So I saw an Arcade bundle at Target, box said LOT 0839x team CSON but the xbox itself had serial # of 0840. I've seen people post numbers with the x's, so not sure what significance one has from the other.

I was really tempted to pick it up, I've been Jasper hunting for well over a month now. Target has a 90 day return policy, not sure how it is with returned items people have used though, especially a gaming console....

This was at Target in Allen TX by the way.

 

[Futile]

Originally posted by: Jopopsy

Hey, this was covered in another forum.

http://forums.xbox.com/17/2229...ShowPost.aspx#22295670

Awesome, thanks for the link. I guess i'm not the only one in a Best Buy region that swaps defective consoles for brand new ones still. I don't feel so special anymore though.

In about 3-4 days i'll go to Best Buy and probably decide to replace my crapped console and i'll write down all the lot numbers I run into and post them here for everyone. Seems you all know what to do with them.

Anything else I should look for? I suppose the wattage...anything below 175W is probably special and worth mentioning. From what I gather the lot number is all that is needed to figure out the manufacturing date I guess.

It would be very interesting if I run into a "Jasper" but is the only way to tell is to actually open up the console? Or would the amps as well be an indicator?

My recent one that crapped was:
175W
Lot: #0804
Manufac: 1-23-08
16.5A <-- that seems very high compared to hearing about 14.5A being out now.

 

[pwnsweet]

I dont know how relevant/irrelevant this info is, but I just got off the phone with a friend that mods consoles for a living and he says that he has not noticed any significant differences in the internals of new Xbox 360 consoles. Keep in mind, he has customers that buy an Xbox 360 console new and come to him for a mod the same day, so I think this information is relevant to some degree when it comes to Jasper information.

 

[JasperHunter]

Originally posted by: pwnsweet
I dont know how relevant/irrelevant this info is, but I just got off the phone with a friend that mods consoles for a living and he says that he has not noticed any significant differences in the internals of new Xbox 360 consoles. Keep in mind, he has customers that buy an Xbox 360 console new and come to him for a mod the same day, so I think this information is relevant to some degree when it comes to Jasper information.

Unless he knew exactly what to look for, he probably wouldn't notice. Zephyr and Falcon look mostly the same, with the exception of the heatsinks and a couple caps. And of course what's underneath those heatsinks

Futile - please read my articles at AnandTech. It'll explain the issues surrounding the PSU and amperage ratings with Falcon/Zephyr/Xenon and the predicted values for Jasper.

 

[Futile]

Originally posted by: JasperHunter

Futile - please read my articles at AnandTech. It'll explain the issues surrounding the PSU and amperage ratings with Falcon/Zephyr/Xenon and the predicted values for Jasper.

Mind throwing me a link. The search isn't working for me and i'm looking in the "All Cases/Cooling/PSUs Articles" which keeps giving me errors.

 

[Branj812]

Originally posted by: Jopopsy

Originally posted by: Branj812
the 839x I have has the small silver capacitors with a lite blue top with a white line across the middle of the top. Its a 4x2 layout.

Has your unit running? Is this your first 360? How is the heat coming out the back of it?

Its my second xbox 360, had one over a year ago and got rid of it but now i'm back. I finally started it up and had it running for over an hour. The air comming out the back wasn't hot at all, really it wasn't even warm, just felt like room temperature. It's also alot quieter than my last one. I am going to try out some games tomorrow for a couple of hours and try to find a kilawat tester. Even if it just a falcon v.3 I still have 90 days to return it if a Jasper pops u within that time frame.

 

[phillyman36]

I just got my xbox 360 yesterday the 60 gig one with Kung Fu Panda and the Indiana Jones. I ordered thru home depot the lot no is 0837 then says team FDOU but it doesn't have a manufacturing date on it. When i went to register it online it say my warranty ends 12/9/2009

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: JasperHunter

Originally posted by: Jopopsy
Hey JasperHunter - I found this on the official Xbox forums (I assume from you)

I can't say too much about this, but based on my sources, there's a good chance that the 360 issues are more than just heat related. Yes, heat issues make it worse, but traditionally, the first signs of heat issues are with video corruption and crashes long before they result in complete hardware failures. And that's not what we're seeing with the RRoD, so I think there's more to it than heat. On top of that, I'm not convinced that maximally cooling an exisiting 360 (Zephy/Xenon/Falcon) will completely prevent RRoD, although it will probably delay it.

The reason I mention this, is that I believe a redesign of the GPU is the proper way to resolve the issue, and why I hope Jasper does fix it. This also means that with another die shrink to 45nm, and a proper GPU/CPU design, a slim Xbox is not out of the question. That said, they may not want to risk it after all that's happened. The reduced power requirement could possibly lend itself to an integrated PSU design in the existing case.

As usual, take my thoughts with a grain of salt - pure speculation here. I have ZERO evidence for this happening, just stating that it is in fact possible given the power profiles of the chips.

***********

Are you saying that most 360s, including Falcon and Jasper, are likely to fail no matter what?

Nope, that's not what I'm saying. I do think the 90nm GPU was fundamentally flawed and that Falcon with it's 80nm GPU might be fundamentally flawed. I hope that Microsoft has fixed it for Jasper. It's possible they made some changes with the 80nm shrink for Falcon (if that is indeed what the Falcon GPU is). I could easily be wrong though and there's conflicting information out there about Falcon reliability. My personal opinion is that we're just now reaching the point where we would start to see significant Falcon failures. That is, if they're going to fail on a consistent basis. However, I have no proof of this whatsoever, just some highly educated guesses. I guess we'll find out over the next few months.

I read somewhere (maybe from you) that MS did the GPU chipwork themselves, then later subcontracted it out to a 3rd party that specializes in it. Would it be unreasonable to consider that between efficiencies gained over the course of a year with the 80nm GPU, and MS having the 3rd party build it now, that very late Falcons could be somehow more reliable then earlier Falcons?

Just a thought ... ????

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: JasperHunter
Wow, this thread really took off today! I can't post at work the majority of the time, so here I am a bit late.

Anyways, a lot of people are asking "should I buy a Falcon now?" Well, that's a very personal decision. We have no clue when Jasper will be here. We have no real leads at this point as far as rumors from Microsoft. All the rumored dates and lot #'s have come and gone with no sign of Jasper.

I stated this before and I'll say it again - I bought a Falcon a little over a month ago and I couldn't be happier. Now, I want Jasper as much as anyone here, and will probably sell my Falcon when Jasper is widespread. If you're getting impatient, it's not that hard to buy a Falcon now, sell it later, and buy a Jasper when they're readily available.

Even if we discover Jasper tomorrow, it may be a while before you can find one locally to purchase. It may be even longer before you can reliably buy one online. If you really are in no rush at all, or have a working Xenon/Zephyr, then I think it would be easy to wait indefinitely. Just my 2 cents - as I said, it's a personal decision.

Originally posted by: middlep1
I suppose fan noise could be down to 2 things:

1) Different manfacturing teams have been reported to use different fans, apparently the CSON 360's use "brushless" fans and are quieter compared to the FDOU machines.

2) Noise differences between lot numbers from the same team could be down to slight variations in the fan compoents that manufacturer gets from their suppliers.

This is very true. Fan noise is very dependant on the fans and there is definitely at least two different models included with different noise profiles. They could introduce a new fan model at any time as well depending on component availability. So, console noise is really not a good indicator that Jasper might be lurking inside. The DVD drive is clearly the noisiest part anyways, although that's mitigated to an extent with HD installs via NXE.


I would like to reiterate that I do not believe the capacitor differences or various Falcon revs are significant at all. These differences are minor and are probably related to component availability more than anything. I think the information about silver (possibly solid?) caps on Xenons and the fact that there is no consistency on the newer lot numbers just confirms my point of view. There is no actual evidence whatsoever that these provide any improvement in reliability, heat production, or any other indicator of an improvement.

PS - I highly doubt this "source" from Argentina. That guy was very inconsistent in what he posted and I'm betting money he won't show up here where he can't be anonymous. Unless someone has a way to document their connection to Microsoft (Jake from 8bitjoystick for example), then I will remain skeptical of such random rumors posted by random people.

Do you find any reliability merit/argument for Rev1 vs. Rev2 Falcon (the mem chip placement change that we can see via Ben Heck?)?

 

[Yumi]

Is there really a 80nm GPU??? As far as i know there are only 90nm GPUs. So when there is no such 80nm GPU please stop talking about it because it confuses me and many other people.

 

[Jopopsy]

Originally posted by: Yumi
Is there really a 80nm GPU??? As far as i know there are only 90nm GPUs. So when there is no such 80nm GPU please stop talking about it because it confuses me and many other people.

There IS a 80nm GPU. The Falcon board underwent a minor GPU rev when it first came out. Search on Anandtech for Falcon Xbox articles. Anand measured it himself - it IS smaller then the original 90nm chip.

 

[Jopopsy]

Slightly off topic - but related.

Is there ANY evidence at all that shows adding longer leggs to the underside of the 360 [horizontal placement of 360] helps disipate heat more efficiently? I know some people think that by adding space between the shelf/surface and the bottom of the 360 will help it cool better.

I have some of my kids wooden blocks that would work nicely if there is any proof that this will help keep the system healthier.

????