Oh Newt you silly Newt

Page 6 - Seeking answers? Join the AnandTech community: where nearly half-a-million members share solutions and discuss the latest tech.

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Where in the constitution does it say the president can order anybody in the executive branch to commit murder or molest a child?

Desperate duh-version. Obstruction of Justice is a crime no matter who commits it, even the President. The Constitutional remedy is impeachment, conviction & removal from office.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Where in the constitution does it say the president can order anybody in the executive branch to commit murder or molest a child?

Where in the Constitution does it say a POTUS can obstruct justice?

Bear in mind that the Constitution doesn't specifically say that a POTUS can hire and fire at will either. It gives him powers of appointment, subject to Senate confirmation, but says nothing about firing. What it says is far broader than that, to wit: "the executive Power [of the United States] shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." The problem is, if you interpret that language broadly enough to permit him to exercise executive authority in such a manner as to violate one criminal statute, the implication is that he can violate any other criminal statute, so long as he is exercising his executive power while doing so. Any time a POTUS orders an employee of the executive branch to do anything, that is an exercise of executive power. If it doesn't matter that the order would otherwise be criminal in the case of obstruction, it likewise does not matter if the order would be criminal in case of murder or child molesting.

I truly think you do not understand the implications of what you are arguing.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,650
50,906
136
Where in the Constitution does it say a POTUS can obstruct justice?

Bear in mind that the Constitution doesn't specifically say that a POTUS can hire and fire at will either. It gives him powers of appointment, subject to Senate confirmation, but says nothing about firing. What it says is far broader than that, to wit: "the executive Power [of the United States] shall be vested in a President of the United States of America." The problem is, if you interpret that language broadly enough to permit him to exercise executive authority in such a manner as to violate one criminal statute, the implication is that he can violate any other criminal statute, so long as he is exercising his executive power while doing so. Any time a POTUS orders an employee of the executive branch to do anything, that is an exercise of executive power.

I truly think you do not understand the implications of what you are arguing.

My guess is that he will say that's not what he's arguing and will refuse to elaborate why.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Where in the Constitution does it say a POTUS can obstruct justice?
Nowhere. Firing an FBI director isn't obstruction of justice. President can't "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" if he's ordering murders and child molestation.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Desperate duh-version. Obstruction of Justice is a crime no matter who commits it, even the President. The Constitutional remedy is impeachment, conviction & removal from office.
It is. Firing an FBI director isn't obstruction of justice.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,650
50,906
136
Nowhere. Firing an FBI director isn't obstruction of justice. President can't "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" if he's ordering murders and child molestation.

You could argue that the president can't deprive someone of life without due process but there's certainly nothing in the Constitution that prevents him from ordering the moleststion of children.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
Nowhere. Firing an FBI director isn't obstruction of justice. President can't "faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States" if he's ordering murders and child molestation.

What does that even mean? He can't do that if he's obstructing an investigation into his own possibly criminal conduct either.

This is actually pretty simple. The argument you are aping here, which comes from Gingrich and Dershowitz, is that the POTUS has absolute authority over the executive branch under the Constitution. Accordingly, any statute which purports to any in way limit or restrict the exercise of that power is unconstitutional when applied to the POTUS, so long as he is exercising his executive power. In order for these criminal statutes to apply, we'd have to amend the Constitution to say, "The executive Power [of the United States] shall be vested in a President of the United States of America, except that the President may not order any executive branch official to molest a child and/or______" Otherwise, the POTUS can do whatever he wants with the executive branch. And taking it one step further, since his order would be legal, the person he ordered to commit the murder could carry it out with no risk of legal jeopardy.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

woolfe9998

Lifer
Apr 8, 2013
16,189
14,114
136
You could argue that the president can't deprive someone of life without due process but there's certainly nothing in the Constitution that prevents him from ordering the moleststion of children.

Possibly true, I hadn't thought about that one. Still, I'm sure we can brainstorm a 100+ more heinous crimes a POTUS could commit with impunity.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,650
50,906
136
Possibly true, I hadn't thought about that one. Still, I'm sure we can brainstorm a 100+ more heinous crimes a POTUS could commit with impunity.

Yes, a constitutional theory that the president could order unlimited child moleststation and various other felonies but had to stop short of murder is not one that any sane person or any stable country could embrace.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
Guys, he thinks firing Comey did nothing to affect the investigation. Because reasons!

This is why it's quickly less and less surprising to me that he believes the Earth is flat AND isn't willing to defend that position anymore.

Pedant and coward are the primary traits of the person with which you are trying to engage, ignoring his hilariously stupid views about the planet.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,650
50,906
136
Guys, he thinks firing Comey did nothing to affect the investigation. Because reasons!

This is why it's quickly less and less surprising to me that he believes the Earth is flat AND isn't willing to defend that position anymore.

Pedant and coward are the primary traits of the person with which you are trying to engage, ignoring his hilariously stupid views about the planet.

You said he deleted his flat earth posts. Due to his views on evolution him believing in a flat earth is not implausible but can you at least link to the threads with the deleted posts?
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,701
8,923
146
Well shit we could spend hours listing things that aren't obstruction of justice, until they are. Absolutely firing Comey could rise to the level of obstruction if the intentions behind the action are of corrupt heart.
 
Reactions: DarthKyrie

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Guys, he thinks firing Comey did nothing to affect the investigation. Because reasons!

This is why it's quickly less and less surprising to me that he believes the Earth is flat AND isn't willing to defend that position anymore.

Pedant and coward are the primary traits of the person with which you are trying to engage, ignoring his hilariously stupid views about the planet.

Buckshot is actually quite talented at turning naive liberals into co-morons. He'll purposely be trivially wrong, and libtards trip over themselves trying to correct it as if he ever cared.

Frankly I suspect many liberals are more comfortable with having these sorts around than any new order where there's no easy arguments to make. I mean, arguing the basic reality of evolution/agw/etc is a free win. Conservatives in all fairness present a very compelling proposition: "I'll make dumb arguments for you to beat on and feel smug over the hapless mental midgets, and in return you'll basically let me take the incompetence plea instead of exposing the underlying degeneracy". It's just how that system works, and it's difficult to break these mutually beneficial relationships.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
You could argue that the president can't deprive someone of life without due process but there's certainly nothing in the Constitution that prevents him from ordering the moleststion of children.
The ordering of molestation of children isn't an enumerated power of the executive.

When you turn to nonsense like this you know its over. You're wrong.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Guys, he thinks firing Comey did nothing to affect the investigation. Because reasons!

This is why it's quickly less and less surprising to me that he believes the Earth is flat AND isn't willing to defend that position anymore.

Pedant and coward are the primary traits of the person with which you are trying to engage, ignoring his hilariously stupid views about the planet.
If the earth was flat Trump is still well within his constitutional power to fire the FBI director for any reason. If congress thinks he obstructed justice then they should impeach him. It isn't a crime.
 

fskimospy

Elite Member
Mar 10, 2006
85,650
50,906
136
The ordering of molestation of children isn't an enumerated power of the executive.

When you turn to nonsense like this you know its over. You're wrong.

You already brought up the unitary executive, remember? Either telling members of the executive branch what to do is acting under the president's constitutional powers or it isn't. Which one is it? Since your argument is that the president can't obstruct justice while exercising his constitutional powers it only stands to reason he cannot commit any other crime while doing so. Woolfe just used child moleststion to highlight the absurdity of the position you're parroting. (And a position I am 100% sure you conveniently adopted very recently)

When you stubbornly refuse to address the logical outcomes of your argument you know it's over. You're wrong, is it really this hard to admit it? Just admit you hadn't thought it through.
 

zinfamous

No Lifer
Jul 12, 2006
111,137
30,088
146
Are you saying tripled down on stupid is better?

I'm saying that you are both illiterate (implied if you were literate and thus understood that post), and your math sucks. If you think I even doubled or tripled down, it means you can't read.

This is why you are so easy to manipulate: you create the world as you want it in your head, then filter out that which conflicts with your fantasy world, before it enters your cognitive center. You have no idea what I said in various posts, because you are a fucking idiot. I mean, really, it's that simple: you're a fucking idiot.

A dummy. a moron. a foolish poltroon. an ignoramus of the highest order. an imbecile. a barely sentient slime mold. a pre-neural spontaneously aborted fetus. etc etc.
 

Younigue

Diamond Member
Feb 5, 2017
5,888
1,446
106
If the earth was flat Trump is still well within his constitutional power to fire the FBI director for any reason. If congress thinks he obstructed justice then they should impeach him. It isn't a crime.
Ok, I keep forgetting to put you on ignore before I close out.

Holy Trumpublican, Batman! How many people are telling you that you are wrong about Trump's right to fire Comey? No one. Fire away Trump. Hope he fires more people investigating him... the optics alone, amirite?

Slow your roll, tool and comprehend what is being said to you over and over again. Trump fired Comey. He didn't do it for any other reason then to disrupt the investigation in to his man Flynn and *biting his finger nails* possibly him. Your man is a weasel, a coward and yup treasonous beyond all doubt. The process to make any and all of his illegal doings stick will be time consuming but by all rights Meuller's putting together a team specialising in all the areas intelligent people already know he's guilty of. There would be no need for this specific team if... good lawyers would suffice if the evidence they are gathering were tenuous.

Little Buddy, you got a problem. Does your skin get itchy when you're not defending Trump? Wear mittens!
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
I'm saying that you are both illiterate (implied if you were literate and thus understood that post), and your math sucks. If you think I even doubled or tripled down, it means you can't read.

This is why you are so easy to manipulate: you create the world as you want it in your head, then filter out that which conflicts with your fantasy world, before it enters your cognitive center. You have no idea what I said in various posts, because you are a fucking idiot. I mean, really, it's that simple: you're a fucking idiot.

A dummy. a moron. a foolish poltroon. an ignoramus of the highest order. an imbecile. a barely sentient slime mold. a pre-neural spontaneously aborted fetus. etc etc.
Lots of flailing around for an "enlightened" person who doesn't even understand what impeachment was. If I am all of those things you list here what does that make you?

By my count you quadrupled down, you don't need much math to figure that out. Oh, and I was right and you were wrong.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
You already brought up the unitary executive, remember? Either telling members of the executive branch what to do is acting under the president's constitutional powers or it isn't. Which one is it? Since your argument is that the president can't obstruct justice while exercising his constitutional powers it only stands to reason he cannot commit any other crime while doing so. Woolfe just used child moleststion to highlight the absurdity of the position you're parroting. (And a position I am 100% sure you conveniently adopted very recently)

When you stubbornly refuse to address the logical outcomes of your argument you know it's over. You're wrong, is it really this hard to admit it? Just admit you hadn't thought it through.
Those are not the logical outcomes of my argument. I don't believe the president has the authority to instruct anybody to commit unlawful acts, nobody does who holds this view. He can guide and influence investigations that are under the executive branch, that's part of his job. We do not have a 4th branch of government which is what you're assuming we have.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
I'm saying that you are both illiterate (implied if you were literate and thus understood that post), and your math sucks. If you think I even doubled or tripled down, it means you can't read.

This is why you are so easy to manipulate: you create the world as you want it in your head, then filter out that which conflicts with your fantasy world, before it enters your cognitive center. You have no idea what I said in various posts, because you are a fucking idiot. I mean, really, it's that simple: you're a fucking idiot.

A dummy. a moron. a foolish poltroon. an ignoramus of the highest order. an imbecile. a barely sentient slime mold. a pre-neural spontaneously aborted fetus. etc etc.

In all fairness, as mentioned buckshot is manipulating liberals pretty well by pretending to be so dumb instead of completely degenerate. Degenerates know that 2+2 doesn't make 22, but like trump he'll swear up and down that it is to frustrate people who think it's possible to educate degenerates.
 
Reactions: soundforbjt

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Buckshot basically claims that obstruction of justice isn't a crime if the President does it.

It didn't work out that way for Nixon, but, well, everything is post-truth now.
 

agent00f

Lifer
Jun 9, 2016
12,203
1,242
86
Buckshot basically claims that obstruction of justice isn't a crime if the President does it.

It didn't work out that way for Nixon, but, well, everything is post-truth now.

Pathological liars will just say anything useful toward some end. Seems some liberals have trouble understanding how that works.
 

buckshot24

Diamond Member
Nov 3, 2009
9,916
85
91
Buckshot basically claims that obstruction of justice isn't a crime if the President does it.

It didn't work out that way for Nixon, but, well, everything is post-truth now.
Witness tampering, bribes, suborning perjury are crimes. Firing an FBI director isn't a crime.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |