Oh. So this is why Star Trek: Enterprise failed miserably...

[Chapbass]

It's one of those things that's a symptom of the bigger problem.

So you have a slight twitch in one eye.
It might be a symptom of a brain tumor.
"But it's just a twitch in your eye! Big deal!"

I honestly don't think thats true, but thats just me.

 

[MrPickins]

how dare you.

star wars above anything else.

IMO, the two are almost different genres.

classic trek for camp fun.

the rest can and will be forgotten.

TNG isn't going to be forgotten, I can assure you.

 

[DigDog]

TNG had some good things (Picard, counselor Troy's chest, Data) and some aweful things which make it unwatchable (Riker, Geordie .. Whoopi Goldberg).

The low budget sci-fi didn't work with serious characters and plots. Or maybe it did for someone, but the way i see it is that nobody's gonna watch it in 20 years andthink ooh, this was a classic, because it was already riding on fanboysm when it came out.

But people in 20 years will still watch classic trek, like they will watch Plan 9 From Outer Space.

 

[MrPickins]

TNG had some good things (Picard, counselor Troy's chest, Data) and some aweful things which make it unwatchable (Riker, Geordie .. Whoopi Goldberg).

The low budget sci-fi didn't work with serious characters and plots. Or maybe it did for someone, but the way i see it is that nobody's gonna watch it in 20 years andthink ooh, this was a classic, because it was already riding on fanboysm when it came out.

But people in 20 years will still watch classic trek, like they will watch Plan 9 From Outer Space.

It's been 20 years since TNG ended, and it's already regarded as a classic.

I don't think you're giving the series enough credit...

Don't forget, it won way more awards than any other Star Trek series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_received_by_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

 

[mmntech]

how dare you.

star wars above anything else.

classic trek for camp fun.

the rest can and will be forgotten.

Let's not get too crazy here. Depends on which Star Wars we're talking about. Everything after 1983 can go suck Jar Jar's dong, with the exception of the video games.


I think I must have been the only person who never got into DS9. I can't exactly pinpoint why though. It just never grabbed me.

I loved TNG growing up. Watching it now, it certainly does have more mediocre episodes that classics. I still like it though.

Voyager is underrated I feel. I've said for a long time that I never really liked Kate Mulgrew in that role. She's too stern, too wooden. I don't think it's her fault as an actress though. The whole show was a bit too stiff. Somewhere along the line, Trek started taking itself too seriously. It would have been nice to see some echos of TOS in there. I think they should have played up the adventure angle a bit. After seeing her in OITNB, for some strange reason, I think it could have worked.

Enterprise was a great concept that was just poorly executed. Once again I don't think it was the cast fault. They were doing the best they could with what they had. Berman and Braga get most of the blame. Letting Jonathan Franks direct so many episodes was just a bad idea. The writing was also pretty weak and awkward. Had it been put into the hands of someone like a Joss Whedon or JJ Abrams back then, it would have been a much better show.

 

[DigDog]

im talking real star wars, not the reboot blasphemy.
may i kindly point you in the direction of the RedLetterMedia reviews?
http://redlettermedia.com/plinkett/star-wars/star-wars-episode-1-the-phantom-menace/
the guy talking could well be me.

for TNG winning awards, thats where you should start getting suspicious. TOS didnt win awards, and yet its now a true classic.
i wouldnt say they were anti-estabilishment, but they sure did their own thing.

 

[Skel]

It's been 20 years since TNG ended, and it's already regarded as a classic.

I don't think you're giving the series enough credit...

Don't forget, it won way more awards than any other Star Trek series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_received_by_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

Really depends on who is calling it a classic. I asked a bunch of the 20somethings around my girlfriend's work and when asked which what was classic "Star Trek" (non-new movies) all of them mentioned the Shatner stuff. TNG is huge for the people that watched it when it was new on TV but most of the younger people either don't know about it or thought it was stupid when they attempted to watch it. It won't age anywhere near as well as TOS as that has that classic 60s not taking itself too seriously vibe going on.

 

[MrPickins]

Really depends on who is calling it a classic. I asked a bunch of the 20somethings around my girlfriend's work and when asked which what was classic "Star Trek" (non-new movies) all of them mentioned the Shatner stuff. TNG is huge for the people that watched it when it was new on TV but most of the younger people either don't know about it or thought it was stupid when they attempted to watch it. It won't age anywhere near as well as TOS as that has that classic 60s not taking itself too seriously vibe going on.

IMO, a lot of that has to do with Shatner being such a caricature of himself. At this time, he's almost got a legendary status.

How many of your 20-something friends actually watched ToS? I'd wager few of them have.

I will admit TNG had plenty of campy (or downright crappy) episodes, but overall the writing on the show was very good and the main cast made for a great ensemble.

I'm watching the series again for the first time since it originally aired with my wife who has never watched it, and we both agree that overall, the show is very well done.

 

[Viperoni]

how dare you.

star wars above anything else.

classic trek for camp fun.

the rest can and will be forgotten.

LOL

TNG > Voyager & TOS > Enterprise > DS9 > * > Star Wars

 

[maniacalpha1-1]

Star Wars has never had a proper TV series, I refuse to count Clone Wars, it needs to be live-action. If it ever does, if done right it could be better than any Trek series.

 

[T9D]

I think Enterprise would have gone on for much longer too if it hadn't been at a time people were getting a little burned out on Trek or at least had seen it all before. TNG led into Voyager, then deep space nine. That's a lot of years and years of Trek. Then Star Gate had started up and was stiff competition and something new. I think if Enterprise had come out before some of those people would have fonder memories of it too.

 

[Skel]

IMO, a lot of that has to do with Shatner being such a caricature of himself. At this time, he's almost got a legendary status.

How many of your 20-something friends actually watched ToS? I'd wager few of them have.

I will admit TNG had plenty of campy (or downright crappy) episodes, but overall the writing on the show was very good and the main cast made for a great ensemble.

I'm watching the series again for the first time since it originally aired with my wife who has never watched it, and we both agree that overall, the show is very well done.

I totally agree that the reason those younger folk even know about ToS is because Shatner has entered this odd legendary caricature status. The point was that odds are ToS will outlive TNG. TNG was a big thing for people in my age group and above because it brought back Star Trek and it was one of the very few Sci-Fi shows on at the time. Only people that were fans would call it a classic. ToS has people who can't stand it calling it classic.

 

[Paratus]

To find the most awesome captain I am using the first pictures when searching "Captain 'X' meme" on google images.

(For research of course)

So in order of awesomeness I rank it:

Kirk
Sisko
Picard
Janeway*
Archer*

*Archer's meme is more awesome in the loosest sense than Janeway, but I had to go to the second picture on Google because the first didn't actually have a picture of Archer. That knocked him into last.

 

[MrPickins]

I totally agree that the reason those younger folk even know about ToS is because Shatner has entered this odd legendary caricature status. The point was that odds are ToS will outlive TNG. TNG was a big thing for people in my age group and above because it brought back Star Trek and it was one of the very few Sci-Fi shows on at the time. Only people that were fans would call it a classic. ToS has people who can't stand it calling it classic.

Again, my wife never watched TNG until very recently and has called it a classic.

Anecdotal, yes, but I'd wager a lot of new viewers have the same response.

 

[Craig234]

It's weird.

I think ToS was great - but when I watch it, I keep thinking 'well other episodes were'.

Battlestar Galactica (the new one of course), I think 'ugh, I would not want to watch that sgain', but put an episode on and I really like it while watching.

When I'm not watching, I can't stand the idea of the annoying characters, the tedious plots, it's a chore - but put that episode on, and 'this is really great'.

It's funny how things work like that work. A game I think is great I won't want to play, and one that's not good I'll play a lot.

Go to the market and buy stuff I think I'll want to eat, then it'll sit in the fridge.

I mention this just as a caveat about how it's not that simple rating these shows. I still think ToS was great, but of course it had a lot of flaws.

But take a really flawed ToS episode, and I find things to like a lot more about it than a high-quality production episode of any of the other series.

Maybe it's similar that I really enjoy some of 'The Prisoner', even though it's a terribly flawed show also, and really annoying with the unexplained things.

That seems like one of the early shows to break the past conventions of TV - the standard spy thriller - to do something new. Ironically, TV has remained a lot more formulaic.

Mostly. Series like Dexter (the premise, not the many episodes) or Breaking Bad do pretty fresh things.

 

[Skel]

Again, my wife never watched TNG until very recently and has called it a classic.

Anecdotal, yes, but I'd wager a lot of new viewers have the same response.

It's very possible that a lot of new viewers could call it classic. I just really don't think they would unless someone seeded the idea in their head. Of course that goes for most things.

 

[zinfamous]

Again, my wife never watched TNG until very recently and has called it a classic.

Anecdotal, yes, but I'd wager a lot of new viewers have the same response.

Not this guy
<---

 

[Ichinisan]

I think Enterprise would have gone on for much longer too if it hadn't been at a time people were getting a little burned out on Trek or at least had seen it all before. TNG led into Voyager, then deep space nine. That's a lot of years and years of Trek. Then Star Gate had started up and was stiff competition and something new. I think if Enterprise had come out before some of those people would have fonder memories of it too.

For the record, DS9 came before Voyager.

 

[MrPickins]

Not this guy
<---

You know what Zim, you can go to hell, and I will see you there. Burning!!!

 

[phucheneh]

I finished Enterprise. Except for the last episode. Figured it was better to just avoid it, given how terrible I'd heard it was.

Seasons 3 and 4 were pretty good. Mostly the third. Four got a bit tiresome with its 3-4 episode 'arcs' that made it like a bunch of miniseries.

Trying to watch Voyager now. Hard to get into it. Needs more interesting TNG-esque mysterious plots. I'm on like episode 8 of season 1, I think. The one with the recycled TNG plot where a boring-ass Riker knockoff murders the shithead husband of some shithead female alien.

...literally, their species...shitheads. They are humans, but with big lumps of shit on their heads. Who comes up with this shit?

 

[Jeff7]

It's been 20 years since TNG ended, and it's already regarded as a classic.

I don't think you're giving the series enough credit...

Don't forget, it won way more awards than any other Star Trek series:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...ns_received_by_Star_Trek:_The_Next_Generation

Of course, that includes awards like "Outstanding Achievement in Hairstyling for a Series."


All that, and they don't have an award that says "Fabulous?" It's blasphemous.

 

[Mastercommander]

Just started trying to watch this. Never got into Voyager or DS9. Intend to try DS9; doubt I give two shits about Voyager.

Wanted to try Enterprise for the 'different.'

Tell me they didn't keep these opening credits for the whole four seasons. Clearly someone should have stood up and said 'this show can never be a success with this horrible montage set to Meatloaf.'

Why do people miss such simple things?

Oh, also, complete lack of effort always annoys me. I hate to nitpick shit like this, but painting Vulcan eyebrows on top of human eyebrows, making some fucktard Y-brows...why? Why not just do it right?

Is this why Trek nerds hate Enterprise? Lots of this type of 'simple fix' stuff what someone just couldn't be bothered with? I normally don't nitpick based on such...but it's....bothering me.

It is meh. But they fixed the intro in season 3 and beyond with a simple bass background. Amazing how much it dramatically improved the soundtrack

 

[poofyhairguy]

It is meh. But they fixed the intro in season 3 and beyond with a simple bass background. Amazing how much it dramatically improved the soundtrack

Are you kidding me? It made it worse.

For those who actually liked the intro because they don't have any music taste: they were pissed

For those who hated the intro and wanted effort being put into a replacement: they were pissed

It was a rare lose-lose.

 

[T9D]

Yeah I love the original intro soundtrack. I hated when they changed it later.

 

[phucheneh]

I actually thought the change DID improve the intro music. I mean, it took it from like a 1/10 to like a 2/10. But it somehow did at least make it better.

Truthfully, it did grow on me. The whole show did.

I just finished Voyager, and it made me SERIOUSLY miss Enterprise. Fucking hell, Voyager sucked fucking ass, through and through. I can't even bring myself to try DS9 now.

All in all, aside from, you know, everything...Voyager's biggest problem was the characters. Which is funny, because people said the same about Enterprise, and I liked a lot of the characters there. Hell, I liked some of the recurring people better than I liked any of the leads on Voyager. Like the blue guy with the wiggly forehead penises.

Voyager was affirmative action Star Trek. The captain is a chick, #2 is a space indian, engineering is led by a Mexican klingon, and, uh...fuck, I can't even remember any more characters. Oh yeah, some fucking Asian guy with one of those half-white names. Johnny Kim, or Steve Wang or some shit. And one white dude, who seemed to have closely studied the character of William Riker, but the only part he got right was slowly getting fatter over the course of the show.