Ohio Attorney General investigating BB Ti4600 Deal

[Platinum]

And this one is SO desperate in his belief that he is entitled that he compares Best Buy's mistake to murder:

Maybe you fail to realize that I'm responding to a hypothetical question, "if you were the merchant..."

ever went to school and learn about analogy? ever heard the saying ,"if your friends jump off the bridge, would u?"

U don't think that whomever is saying that phrase REALLY refers to suicide, do u? Man, what a bunch of ignorant people on AT.

 

[Platinum]

You really are daft... retailers are not responsible for an ADVERTISED pricing mistake

Really, I seriously doubt that you have anything worthwhile to say. AGAIN, I EMPHASIZE, I'm NOT arguing if a retailer is responsible or not.

I mean, REALLY, how many times to I have to say this. So save your BS to someone who really cares.

 

[docmanhattan]

<< You really are daft... retailers are not responsible for an ADVERTISED pricing mistake

Really, I seriously doubt that you have anything worthwhile to say. AGAIN, I EMPHASIZE, I'm NOT arguing if a retailer is responsible or not.

I mean, REALLY, how many times to I have to say this. So save your BS to someone who really cares. >>

Yes. We know what you're trying to say. That these people that are pursuing this are noble

and doing this for free.

Newflash:
They're doing this to try and gain something for which they have no claim to. This isn't some altruisctic crusade for the betterment of consumers rights. This is a greedy witchhunt and while you may be claiming that you're not debating the morals or ethics of these people; by trying to elicit sympathy for their "hard work"

you are basically saying you agree with them.

 

[gunf1ghter]

You didn't necessarily edit your post in response to what I had to say to you, but you DID remove the inane analogy in which you compared what BB did to leaving your door unlocked and letting a thief in.

You keep indicating that others here have nothing constructive to say when it's clear that you are the one that is flogging a dead horse.

Be a vulture as much as you want, but don't indicate that you are pursuing some crusade to put down evil retailers.

We all know how much it will break your heart if you can't get a video card for $200 less than cost.

Congratulations on convincing thousands of forum regulars that you are a complete knob.

 

[Platinum]

They're doing this to try and gain something for which they have no claim to. This isn't some altruisctic crusade for the betterment of consumers rights. This is a greedy witchhunt and while you may be claiming that you're not debating the morals or ethics of these people, by trying to elicit sympathy for their "hard work" you are basically saying you agree with them.

docmanhattan,

First of all, are u a lawyer? Do you have extensive knowledge of the law? Can u answer one question for me?
If this is indeed a greedy witchhunt in which Steve and them have no claim to, why is it that the Attorney Generals of some states are beginning to side with them? Is it because the AG are greedy too and wants the cards as well? If even the AG is saying there's nothing wrong with filing a claim, I don't see how you can state that they have no claim to it(unless you're the judge).

Now, I'm not saying that AG is correct in EVERYTHING, but there's gotta be some type of hard evidence to convince them to be on your side.

Again, the question of legitimacy is up in the air and I don't want to get into an argument on that.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Typical mis-information....

provide EVIDENCE that an AG in any state is actually involved in going after BB. Oh yea, you can't. The AG in Ohio might be investigating the claim, but it's going to take some strong evidence for them to litigate. Right now what is happening is that a lot of frustrated 16 year old computer geeks are calling up the local BBB and AG offices and crying that they can't get this GF4 card for lower than cost due to a pricing error. Period.

What I find particularly amusing is that pricing mistakes occur quite frequently and in many cases get discovered and fixed and noone goes on one of these crusades.

It would have to be the lure of getting the newest hotter vid card for less than what a mediocre one costs to bring the real whiners out of the woodwork.

 

[isildur]

Congratulations on convincing thousands of forum regulars that you are a complete knob.

<snort>

its amusing to me that the only people in this thread who can be deemed "indignant" or "whiney" by the content of their posts are those that are complaining about the "indignant" and "whiney" people who placed orders w/ BB.

It is difficult to assume the "moral highroad" when the foundation of your position consists of telling someone that they are behaving in a way and for motivations that are other than what they claim with no more evidence or support than your own opinion.


<internal monologue> Damnit! How does this thread keep sucking me back in! </internal monologue>

Edited to fix retarded mistake ---

and, BTW there is some fuzzy math going on here:
- there are 2000 orders being represented by Steve
- the cost /card to BB is $350 (most reliable number and confirmed by a BB manager)
- difference between BB cost/"sale" price: 350 - 129.99 = 220.01
- net loss: 220.01 x 2500 (round up for safety) = $550, 025

...for those who were suggesting that this was a $3mill issue in danger of closing BB's doors...

<shrug>

 

[Platinum]

You didn't necessarily edit your post in response to what I had to say to you, but you DID remove the inane analogy in which you compared what BB did to leaving your door unlocked and letting a thief in.

D@mn, kid...what have you been smoking? How is it that I remove the analogy when it's still there? I'll even post it here:

Don't give me that righteous crap about price mistakes and all. I mean, if I made a mistake of leaving my door unlock at home and a thieve come in, can I tell the thieve , "hey, I made a mistake of leaving the door unlock. Can you pls give me back the stuff u rob??" Chances are, if u make a mistake, you have to DEAL with it...just like everyone else.

For your information and concern about my "editing", I change one spot of the post. And that is here...:

The real question is , if you DIDN'T order the card, why are YOU here?
"Well, u see...BB pay me $2.95/hr to post this and give all of you a hard time..."

Original I put xxxx.xx. Not sure if u can check with the mod on the backup server but before you try to emphasize a point...make sure u get someone else as a witness and agrees with u as well so u don't look like a moron

 

[docmanhattan]

<< First of all, are u a lawyer? >>

Nope. Are you a english teacher?


<< Do you have extensive knowledge of the law? >>

Nope. But I can claim to have a good bit of common sense.


<< Can u answer one question for me? >>

Maybe.


<< If this is indeed a greedy witchhunt in which Steve and them have no claim to, why is it that the Attorney Generals of some states are beginning to side with them? >>

IMHO, it's an AG looking to make a name for themself, as cliched as that sounds. Why did Johnny Cochran take O.J.'s case?


<< Is it because the AG are greedy too and wants the cards as well? >>

It would've been a good deal if BB didn't catch the error.

BTW: Did you ever look at the threads from when the pricing error occurred?

 

[isildur]

Gun - speaking of looking like a nob:

Typical mis-information....

provide EVIDENCE that an AG in any state is actually involved in going after BB. Oh yea, you can't. The AG in Ohio might be investigating the claim, but it's going to take some strong evidence for them to litigate. Right now what is happening is that a lot of frustrated 16 year old computer geeks are calling up the local BBB and AG offices and crying that they can't get this GF4 card for lower than cost due to a pricing error. Period.

What I find particularly amusing is that pricing mistakes occur quite frequently and in many cases get discovered and fixed and noone goes on one of these crusades.

It would have to be the lure of getting the newest hotter vid card for less than what a mediocre one costs to bring the real whiners out of the woodwork.

It isn't mis-information to indicate that a representative from the Ohio AG has expressed a general opinion that, at first glance, "they" (he used the plural, I would assume to denote multiple lawyers in the office?) feel that BB is legally obligated to complete the orders.

What I find amusing is your constant generalizations about anyone involved in this and the condescending attitude you have taken while assuming things that you have no evidence for.

Case in point: Right now what is happening is that a lot of frustrated 16 year old computer geeks are calling up the local BBB and AG offices and crying that they can't get this GF4 card for lower than cost due to a pricing error. Period

How can you declare this with such authority? What is the source of your information? If you are interested in "fact," you might be interested in knowing that Steve at least advised people NOT to take these actions, as they are counter productive. I said it once before, but you clearly missed it - the Ohio AG asked Steve to have any of the Ohio residents who were in this deal contact them. To my knowledge, one person emailed the AG office and pointed them toward Steve's page and THEY CONTACTED HIM to express their opinion.

You have made assumptions about the motivations of people involved in this issue and compounded it with assumptions you've made about their character and attitude and arrived at a conclusion based on smoke that you proclaim as if a declaration from the Lord.
I have attempted repeatedly to engage you rationally, but you have declined to do so.

Who exactly is showing "thousands" of readers that they are a "knob?"

 

[Platinum]

Are you a english teacher?

Was that a crack on me or on yourself? Try "Are you an english teacher?"

Did you ever look at the threads from when the pricing error occurred?

Not before I order, a friend at work told me about it.

 

[gunf1ghter]

Isildur,

That's actually one of the first rational posts that I have seen from you on this issue... the problem here is that many folks who want to get in on the TI4600 deal are making it very obvious from their posts that they understood right up front that this was a pricing error but that they still feel like they are entitled to something.

I am not an attorney but I believe that BB would have to be proven to have intentionall misled it's customers in order for the AG of any state to force BB to make restitution to the "victims".

I could really care less if people get into a class action lawsuit over this thing to try to get BB to do something for them... what bothers me is that it is disingenuous for people to say that they are on some kind of consumer crusade when in fact they knew that this card was incorrectly priced and are still beating their chest and beating the war drums about how something is owed them.

 

[isildur]

Expressions that have been thrown about with great frequency here are things like "greedy vulture" and "altruistic crusade."

It is childish and irrational to think that these are the only two or even the two most logical answers to the question of how/why someone would have participated in this deal.
You commit a fallacy when you present this situation as either a.) someone who is just trying to get a card cheap OR b.) someone who is out to prove something to the world. These are both great extremes between which there is an entire world of room to populate.

If you go to a bake sale at a charity and make some purchases, have you purchased food because it is good and you are hungry or have you purchased them to support a good cause, or both?

I am one of the guys who saw Steve's page where he indicated that he had called BestBuy twice to confirm this price; once from a CSR and once from a CSM.

I shrug and say to myself, damn, they must be running some kind of crazy "first 500 cards at $129.99!" sale and head over to get one.

Once it got cancelled, I said, Hmmm, that sucks - oh well, not like I lost anything, but I wonder if they are allowed to just up and cancel something like that...

Come to find out, this action is of questionable legality in the already grey world of internet commerce.
I'm not bitching, I'm not whining (and I'm not 16); I'm just asking questions and telling BB that I don't think they can or should do business like this - a point I make because it is significant that this is a chronic problem for BB.
<shrug>

If you can show me something in my actions or posts that justifies your condemnation of me as "whiney @sshole" or "greedy vulture" then we'll talk, but it looks to me like you are basing those conclusions on opinions of your own and ignoring any evidence to the contrary.

 

[docmanhattan]

<< Are you a english teacher?

Was that a crack on me or on yourself? Try "Are you an english teacher?"

Did you ever look at the threads from when the pricing error occurred?

Not before I order, a friend at work told me about it. >>

You got me on the "a", an." But I really do suggest reading the original posts because what you'll see is a bunch of people who know that it's an error.

Okay, after digging around, it would appear that the original post was removed. whatever. Here are links to others that are discussing the Ti4600 price error. They all hover around a bit after Feb. 6th.

Hot Deals

Hot Deals

Off Topic

Hot Deals

Video

 

[gunf1ghter]

hmmm... let's look at one of your early comments in this thread.



<< even after calling twice to confirm? Um, NO.

BUT, how about the fact that IT DOESN'T EVEN MATTER.
they agreed to sell and then balked and relied on a TOS that doesn't meet the FTC standards for binding TOS. Thus, they are in breach of contract.

teh ignorant = STFU >>



The fact of the matter is you do not know whether or not the TOS meets the FTC requirements... even if you have read the FTC requirements and read the BB TOS you are not a lawyer and your opinion on this is just that, your opinion.

A few people early on pointed out that this kind of thing becomes a magnet for the wounded monitor children of the world (something that can be frequently seen in the hot deals forum) and you respond by calling on everyone who doesn't agree with your opinion on this to STFU.

I wouldn't say that I am the only one who is quick to draw opinions about peoples motivations.

I also might point out that it's going to be pretty damn funny if people really hold out hope for getting a card like this for $129... since BB stands to lose over 6 figures on this if it's ruled against them they are going to stall till the GF4 is a dinosaur and the GF6 is out.

 

[isildur]

I am not an attorney but I believe that BB would have to be proven to have intentionall misled it's customers in order for the AG of any state to force BB to make restitution to the "victims".

I could really care less if people get into a class action lawsuit over this thing to try to get BB to do something for them... what bothers me is that it is disingenuous for people to say that they are on some kind of consumer crusade when in fact they knew that this card was incorrectly priced and are still beating their chest and beating the war drums about how something is owed them.


It is true that it would have to have been intentional for it to constitute a "bait/switch" practice, which is ALWAYS illegal, but the problem is that (it looks like) their TOS simply is not legally binding.

The FTC/UCC codes regarding TOS's set up a number or hurdles that each TOS MUST clear for it to be binding. A couple of these are (forgive me, this is from memory) - it must be conspicuous, it must placed in such a way that the customer has adequate reason to know that they are agreeing to a TOS, and there is even some vague language in there about assuming that the average customer will NOT read every word on every page of a site and that the company bears the burden of ensuring that a customer knows about the TOS prior to purchasing items. Of course, in the end it states that NO TOS may supercede any consumer protection laws of any kind (which is why "breach of contract" has been suggested - <shrug> like Russ pointed out, I'm no lawyer, I can't comment much on that).

It's not about getting "restitution for damages" or being compensated as a victim - it just looks to me like BB simply isn't legally covered by their TOS to allow them to do these kinds of cancellations.

<shrug again>

heck, I've done all the legwork I intend to do & I have no interest in small claims. if they decide that the TOS is legal then its legal - if its not, then I might get a sweat card cheap, so I'm 1/10 part "greedy vulture" and 1/10 part "crusader" and 8/10 parts layed back.

 

[isildur]

???
copied from me above - * and now fixed to replace retardedness *

and, BTW there is some fuzzy math going on here:
- there are 2000 orders being represented by Steve
- the cost /card to BB is $350 (most reliable number and confirmed by a BB manager)
- difference between BB cost and "sale" price = 220.01
- financial cost of this, if fulfilled: $550,025

<shrug>

Sure, not chump change to us, but BB IS the nation's largest, most successful consumer electronics retailer and they just had a record breaking earnings year last year...


hey, I apologize for gettin snippy - I reacted to attitude with 'tude of my own and it snowballed.


hope those last couple helped clarify me.

whistle's blowin yall, time to get the heck outa dodge. the weekend calls...

 

[gunf1ghter]

<< Yea, I suppose the British called the Colonists "whiney bitches" too when they were screaming no taxation without resprentation. >>

This was a comment that some dim bulb made early on in this thread... although it might not be what everyone who jumps on one of these pricing errors thinks it is actually pretty typical of what you will see not only on the AT Hot Deals forum but on other deal forums like dealcatcher.com.

When I bought a digital camera a few months back some guy was boasting that he "knew his rights as a consumer" and proceeded to fight it out with a Sears manager trying to force him into doing a price match with an illegitimate retailer (based on a phony receipt no less).... [aside] if I had been the manger I would have called the cops and had the guy removed[/aside]

It's this mentality of entitlement that rubs so many of us (especially those of us who have actually worked for a living, including working retail) the wrong way and results in our classification of said individuals as "vultures".

 

[docmanhattan]

<< << Yea, I suppose the British called the Colonists "whiney bitches" too when they were screaming no taxation without resprentation. >>

This was a comment that some dim bulb made early on in this thread... although it might not be what everyone who jumps on one of these pricing errors thinks it is actually pretty typical of what you will see not only on the AT Hot Deals forum but on other deal forums like dealcatcher.com.

When I bought a digital camera a few months back some guy was boasting that he "knew his rights as a consumer" and proceeded to fight it out with a Sears manager trying to force him into doing a price match with an illegitimate retailer (based on a phony receipt no less).... [aside] if I had been the manger I would have called the cops and had the guy removed[/aside]

It's this mentality of entitlement that rubs so many of us (especially those of us who have actually worked for a living, including working retail) the wrong way and results in our classification of said individuals as "vultures". >>

Agreed. That's what makes me a bit cranky. It does make me chuckle, however, to think that when it's all said and done, the card's going to be outdated and going for $20 on Ebay.

 

[isildur]

Yes, I've worked retail as well and do continue to work for a living and you are right that I cannot claim with authorative certainty that the TOS won't hold water. BUT that is the hinge-pin of my position: the one and only reason that BB would need to complete these orders is if the TOS doesn't hold up and they are found to be in breach of contract. It looks to me, from reading the relavent materials, that they are, but again, I don't sit on anybody's supreme court.

As for the guy w/ the pricematch - I too find him to be an @ss, but that scenario is radically different than mine where the vendor put a hold on my CC, told me I had purchased one and even told me that my purchase was on backorder and "would ship as soon as possible" and then up and cancelled.

Thus, my position of "entitlement" hinges entirely on the validity of the contract and the legality of their TOS, just as I have said all along.
If it goes through and I get a card for 129 and they have to quit doing stuff like this, I think that would be great for everyone and I would certainly have fun w/ my new cheap card (and we are NOT talking about millions of dollars here).

If it doesn't go through and BB starts doing a better job w/ their website and makes consumers agree to their TOS before they make a purchase, then this is better for everyone too.

<shrug>

 

[Corn]

<< and, BTW there is some fuzzy math going on here:
- there are 2000 orders being represented by Steve
- the cost /card to BB is $350 (most reliable number and confirmed by a BB manager)
- retail at BB is $399.99
- financial cost of this, if fulfilled: (399.99 - 350) x 2000 = $99,980 >>



Yeah, that's fuzzy math alright:

($350 (cost) - $129 (vulture price) = $221 loss per card) * 2000 cards = $442,000 hard loss (not including the $50 lost profit/card).

For your sake, I sure hope that your "legal skills" are superior to your basic math skills.......

 

[hammer01]

Corn, how's it going bud? Anywho back to these folks who are trying to rationalize to every one else on this board that what they aree doing is saving a bunch of folks from that evil entity known as Best Buy, when all they really want is a cheap video card. I guarantee you that if anyone of these worms that crawled outta the woodwork got his card we would never hear from them again (which may actually be worth it really). But that is the beauty of doing the right thing, it is the right thing all the time, even when it is inconvenient or out of fashion or even when some lawyer is trying to tell you that this company screwed you over and you need to sue their asses for everything they are worth. The folks who know the right thing and do the right thing can be counted easily and I can spot them pretty easily they don't backpeddle or feel a need to defend themselves in the face of all this crap you WMC's are trying to throw here, but I expect all of this to be just simply beyond your grasp of the situation as you really don't get it. I can guarantee that anyone who feels the need to pull this kinda crap over something as simple as a mistake is not worthy to trade with me on these boards and goes on my DNT list for sure.

 

[hammer01]

That said I believe that Platinum may just be slighly misguided, which I can understand as it must be hard to see where you are going with your head so far up Steve's ass.

 

[Oakenfold]

isildur



<< financial cost of this, if fulfilled: (399.99 - 350) x 2000 = $99,980 >>


Um don't know what manager confirmed this but employee price is cheaper than that, also how do you figure the math? This is what figure? It can't be the LOSS figure, the loss figure for this example would be
(BB COST)- (BB Actual Price sold) x( # of UNITS)= LOSS
Also your attitude is not very nice, give me a HUG WE ARE BROTHERS, The love in here doesn't feel very good. Let's change that, I GOT LOVE FOR YOU ALL! Except for the Imac users, that's just...wrong..j/k

 

[jjones]

Well, to me it does seem as if the Ohio AG does have a case. What BB did is not a simple pricing mistake; they are taking advantage of their TOS to cover errors in their online ordering system. It is one thing to advertise a product with a pricing error; it is quite another to actually take an order, a legally binding contract at that point, and then cancel it.

With a simple pricing error, a business can usually get away with any of a number of reasons for not accepting an order; and I make distiction between an advertising a mistake and actually accepting orders. However, BB accepted orders and then cancelled them. Usually, once an order is taken it must be fulfilled, or if cannot be fulfilled there must be a comparable product at the same or comparable price made available to the purchaser.

BB should not be able to hide behind a legally weak TOS and should be made to honor all orders accepted by one means or another. They seem to have a simple "accept all orders" policy and then cancel them at their convenience behind their TOS. This is not right legally or ethically.