Originally posted by: TechnoKid
Anything but a fram or fram copy or a honda oem filter, unless its a japan one, but those are very hard to find in the states
Yup, I change mine usually as soon as I can over 3,000. Once it hits there I think "oil changing time" and then get to it...so it's usually between 3k-4.5k. I get castrol gtx for ~$10/case[12] + ~$3 filter...4 qt capacity & I do it myself so it ends up costing me $7. Pretty cheapOriginally posted by: Freejack2
I have mine changed as close to 3000 miles as possible. Granted at 100,000 miles it'll be 33, 3000 mile oil changes, vs 20, 5000 mile changes. I pay about $25 for an oil change so it's $325 over the life of the car. On the other hand if it saves me even one major repair it's paid for itself!
But PLEASE change your oil every 3K or 3 months UNLESS 80% or more of your drving is highway driving with little speed changes. If you use a good Synthetic then you can go UP TO 4K or 3 months
As such using Syn. oil after using regular will not hurt the motor. Now mind you Syn. oil is thinner and can leak easier, so that is why a lot of people beat up there cars or buy a used car and put Syn. in it and it starts to leak or burn. Its not the oils fault, its the motors fault(caused by a bad owner)
Also for just about all the cars on the road use 10W30 year round.
5W30 if you live in a cold climate.
15W40 for Diesel motors.
20W50 if you have a really old car/truck that burns or leaks real bad and it is not to cold, if it is cold then use 15W40.
NEVER USE 10w40.
And only use good oils. Some are...
Mobil
Exxon
Valvoline
Havoline
And never use Castrol. I have broken down motors with that in it and was even once charged extra to get a block clean as Castrol is JUNK, I know this first hand, so don't give me any junk from I heard this or saw a commercial.... Even Castrols Syntec oil IS NOT SYNTHETIC. Mobil sued them and came to find out, to be able to call your oil Syn. , only the polymers have to be Syn. the Base can be regular oil, Like Castrols Syntec. So castrol won as they just meet standards to call their oil syn.
Originally posted by: Aquaman
Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Damn, Eli... :Q
What he said
Cheers,
Aquaman
Originally posted by: Eli
Wow, there's a lot of misinformation in here.. :Q
First of all, Merlin covered the myth about petrolium oil and switching to a synthetic.. When you think about it, it makes sense.. but it doesen't work like that. lol...
To answer your most important question, YES.. synthetics are worth it. Of course, you cannot change your oil every 3000 miles if you use a synthetic, or it will kill your wallet. The thing is, you don't need to. Those of you that say it's not worth it "now" that his car has 100,000 miles on it, or whatever, are dead wrong. There is absolutely nothing wrong with using better oil, it doesen't matter how many miles your engine has on it. 100% synthetic oils are superior to petrolium based oils in every aspect. All it's going to do is prolong the life of your engine even longer.
Basically, as others have said.. 3000 miles is like, the bare minumum. Any regular dead dino juice should last that long.
I'm going to disagree with some things that Merlin says, however...
But PLEASE change your oil every 3K or 3 months UNLESS 80% or more of your drving is highway driving with little speed changes. If you use a good Synthetic then you can go UP TO 4K or 3 months
What? That's not true... lol.. Any good synthetic is good for many, many... more than 4,000 miles.. Up to 35,000, or 1 year. That said, the best (And really only) way to truely tell the condition of your oil is to take a sample and have it analyzed. It is also very important to use a good quality oil filter, and change it at the recomended intervals.
As such using Syn. oil after using regular will not hurt the motor. Now mind you Syn. oil is thinner and can leak easier, so that is why a lot of people beat up there cars or buy a used car and put Syn. in it and it starts to leak or burn. Its not the oils fault, its the motors fault(caused by a bad owner)
What? Synthetic oil is not "thinner" than petrolium oils. 10W-30 is 10W-30 as far as that goes. The reason it appears more liquid at room temperature is because it has a pour point several orders of magnitude lower than the average petrolium based oil. A good synthetic will pour at -50F, while a "normal" petrolium based oil would be solid at that temperature. Being more liquid at room temperature is a good thing. The hydrocarbon/polymer chains in a synthetic oil will not uncoil passed their rated viscosity.
Also for just about all the cars on the road use 10W30 year round.
5W30 if you live in a cold climate.
15W40 for Diesel motors.
20W50 if you have a really old car/truck that burns or leaks real bad and it is not to cold, if it is cold then use 15W40.
NEVER USE 10w40.
I'll pretty much agree with this, but I will say that you should use whatever your owners manual says to use. If it says 10W-40, use 10W-40. As long as it meets the manufacturers minimum requirements, it is fine.
And only use good oils. Some are...
Mobil
Exxon
Valvoline
Havoline
And never use Castrol. I have broken down motors with that in it and was even once charged extra to get a block clean as Castrol is JUNK, I know this first hand, so don't give me any junk from I heard this or saw a commercial.... Even Castrols Syntec oil IS NOT SYNTHETIC. Mobil sued them and came to find out, to be able to call your oil Syn. , only the polymers have to be Syn. the Base can be regular oil, Like Castrols Syntec. So castrol won as they just meet standards to call their oil syn.
I would like to see some specifications that show those oils are "good", and that Castrol is bad. You can't necessarily go by "shop experience" on this one, because every engine has seen a completely different life. Just because the engine is worn out, or has a lot of buildup doesen't mean the oil they used was garbage unless you know the story.
That said, I wouldn't use any of those oils in any of my engines. :Q Mobil 1 0W-30 is probably the worst of the bunch(Don't know anything about Exxon's oils), with a wear scar of 0.607mm on the Four Ball Wear Test(ASTM D4172).. 40kg pressure @ 150C, 1800rpm, for 1 hour. The smaller the scar, the better. Quaker State 4x4 comes in at 0.595mm. Mobile 1 5W-30 produces a wear scar of 0.589mm. Castrol Syntec 5W-50 produces a wear scar of 0.576mm. Pennzoil 5W-30 produces a wear scar of 0.540mm.
100% synthetic AMSOil Series 2000 0W-30 produces a wear scar of 0.373mm. As tested by independant laboratories in 1999.
Another important property of oil is the Noack Volatility test. I don't know specs of the oils mentioned offhand, however.. almost all petrolium based oil loose at least 15%, and as much as 25% of their mass when exposed to heat due to vaporisation. This causes the oil's viscosity to thicken over time.. A good volatility rating is under 10%, and preferrably as low as 6%.
Yet another very important property of your engine oil is it's Total Base Number(TBN), which is a measure of how well the oil can neutralize and withstand acids produced during normal combustion. The higher, the better. Some oils have TBNs as low as 6 or 7. Good oils have a TBN of 8-10. The best oils have TBNs of 11-12+.
The only oils I've found that meets all these requirements are AMSOil oils. They are expensive.. Then again.. Let's do some math.
AMSOil 0W-30 is $8.10/quart. Let's say your engine holds 4 1/2 quarts, that's $36.45. Wow, you say.. Much more than the 1.50/quart I pay!
1.50 * 4.5 = $6.75. A savings of almost 30$.
But wait, you "have" to change the cheap oil 11 times more often than the synthetic. 6.75 * 11 = $74.25. :Q
You could change at half the recomended interval(16,500 miles), and you would still be spending the same amount of money.
Not only are you paying more, but your engine is going to wear out faster even though you change it every 3000 miles just because of the petrolium based oil's physical properties. Is it worth it?
No, I didn't think so.
Edit: I highly recomend The Motor Oil Bible. It's at least a good book to keep in the bathroom, ontop of the magazines.
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Aquaman
Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Damn, Eli... :Q
What he said
Cheers,
Aquaman
Sorry for the long post. I do hope you read it though. I'm very anal about the lubrication I use.
(man, I set myself up bad on that last comment...)
Originally posted by: Eli
Originally posted by: Aquaman
Originally posted by: NightFlyerGTI
Damn, Eli... :Q
What he said
Cheers,
Aquaman
Sorry for the long post. I do hope you read it though. I'm very anal about the lubrication I use.
(man, I set myself up bad on that last comment...)
Originally posted by: Goosemaster
Yes... 35,000 miles. You have to remember that you must change your oil filter at the recomended intervals during this time. Your oil filter is the only thing keeping particles that cause engine wear out of your oil. If you drive in extremely dirty or dusty conditions, and don't change your filter.. it doesen't matter what oil you put in your crankcase. Dirt + any oil = grinding compound. That's why I recomend oil analysis if you're really serious about the longevity of your engine. It costs 10-15 bucks, but it tells you everything you would ever want to know about your used engine oil. If it has a lot of silica in it, you have dirt entering your engine somewhere..Originally posted by: Eli
Wow, there's a lot of misinformation in here.. :Q
<snip>
Congradulations, Eli
YOU are now DA MAN!
But seriously, 35,0000 friggin thousand friggin miles?
Damn.
Would you have any links on how to easily change your oil...
<---newbie hopefully under your guidance
Typical oil filters only filter out particles in the 25-40 micron range. 60% of engine wear is caused by particles in the 5-20 micron range. There are bypass oil filters available that will remove particles down to 1/10th of 1 micron. This virtually eliminates engine wear.
That's another thing I like about AMSOil. It seems difficult to find specifications for most other brands of oils, but they post them right on their webpage.
Changing your oil is easy. The procedure is pretty much the same on any car, however.. since every car is put together differently, it may be worth the investment to buy the Chilton's manual for your car. It will clearly tell you how to change your oil.
Basically, all you have to do is crawl under the car with some sort of pan to drain the oil into, and wrench on the drain plug.. Let the oil drain out into the pan. It's important to change your oil while the engine is warm, too. Warm oil flows better, and the detergents still have the particles you want out of there in suspension. Clean everything up nice, and put the drain plug back in.
Change your oil filter if you need to. This is pretty much a no brainer.. unscrew old one, clean things up.. lubricate new oil filter's rubber seal with new oil, and screw it home. Add your oil, check for leaks.. and you're done.
lol.. If you've really never done it before, and aren't too mechanically minded.. I'd have a friend who has some experience come over for a few brewskies, and some pointers.
I'm very anal about the lubrication I use.
Originally posted by: Citrix
DO NOT GET ANY OIL WITH A WALMART LABEL!!
My father inlaw trying to save a few bucks bought a oil from walmart with thier label on it. He put the stuff in both of his ford rangers. one seized up and the other started running rough. The oil turned into black pudding with only 400 miles!!!! I helped him tear the engines apart and when we pulled out the oil pickup it was totally clogged. One of his rangers the cams are shot and we think we got the other ranger before any real damage happend.
I have always used Mobile1 in my truck and geo, so far i have no engine problems at all and my geo is about to go over 140K miles. so yes i think the synthetics are worth it.
Exelent post Eli! I have heard of Amsoil but never read about them... I will have to get some of this stuff. hey a 55 gal drum is only $901.00 hehehe
Originally posted by: Marlin1975
Eli said...
What? Synthetic oil is not "thinner" than petrolium oils. 10W-30 is 10W-30 as far as that goes. The reason it appears more liquid at room temperature is because it has a pour point several orders of magnitude lower than the average petrolium based oil. A good synthetic will pour at -50F, while a "normal" petrolium based oil would be solid at that temperature. Being more liquid at room temperature is a good thing. The hydrocarbon/polymer chains in a synthetic oil will not uncoil passed their rated viscosity.
Synthetic oil is thinner. Yes the Viscosity is the same, BUT the size of the molecule is smaller and can leak through smaller holes and piston rings. Reg oil all the molecules are a little different size, but syn. Oil is made from a gas (at least mobile1, and all REAL Syn. oils) and the molecules are all the same very small size. If they are all the same size then the oil will perform more consistent and will break down less. Hence being able to go a little longer on oil changes.
Someone else asked about the new 5W20.
I didn?t know Honda had started telling people to use it. I know Ford has been putting it in their cars. The reason for the thinner oil is, the less weight of the oil (viscosity) the less power it takes to move it in the engine, and the cars get just a little better gas mileage. A lot of race cars have used 5W20 in the past, but it is just coming to light to put it in new cars.
How will it hold up in a car, no body really knows as this is a new thing? The reason is so these car companies will get better tax savings from the government, when their cars get better gas mileage. I would play it safe if it was my car and use 10W30, unless it is cold and then use 5W30. But again the new 5W20 may be the next 10W30 of our time. Again this is a new thing, just like when car makers started telling people to stop using straight 30 weight and use a multi weight oil. But if the car is under warranty then use it until the warranty runs out if you are not getting gas mileage you want.
Posted by Pacfanweb
What Marlin says is correct. There have been numerous articles that have documented how changing to synthetic in older cars resulted in leaks, since the oil flows so much easier that is will leak out places where petroleum oil won't.
Once again, if you change the oil every 3k miles, you'll never have an oil-related problem, and your engine will last just as long as if you use amsoil, syntec, or any other synthetic. Nobody has oil-related failures anymore, unless it's because the oil wasn't changed.
It is cheap insurance.
Also, one other misstatement I saw is that changing to synthetic won't harm an engine. In some cases, that may be true, but not all. Changing to synthetic can absolutely hurt an older engine. It won't harm them all across the board, but it happens in more than a few isolated cases.
Example: Our shop foreman has a friend who had a fleet of Chevy trucks (plumbing business) who had switched to Mobil 1. He mentioned to our foreman that they all knocked on cold starts, then the noise went away when the oil pressure came up.
The foreman, after asking me (I had this identical problem on both my Tahoes) then asked the guy what kind of oil he was using. When the guy said "Mobil 1" our guy said "that's your problem".
The man changed all the trucks to regular oil and the problem went away. He had changed to Mobil 1 after they started getting up there in mileage so he'd get a bit more use from them.
Originally posted by: DaveSohmer
Consumer Reports did a test of dino oils about fiveyears ago. The test was done on NYC taxi cabs using different oil, oil filters, change intervals, etc. Their conclusion was that all motor oil is the same and to use the grade and change interval reccomended by your owners manual. Anything else is a waste of money.