Oil change question...

[imagoon]

I don't see how anyone could "damage" their vehicle with an oil change unless one forgot to put in the oil and started the engine or somehow stripped the drain plug.

Jiffy Lube drained my manual gear box for me....

 

[Bartman39]

I don't know about oil specifically, but historicalily walmart is known for selling lower quality name brand tires.

IE the walmart goodyear viva 2 is not the same goodyear viva 2 you would get from tirerack.com or discount tire.

There's no differentiation between the walmart style and the retail style. No markings, no way to know.



So yes, walmart does sell shitty products specifically catered to their bottom of the barrel quality and pricing. And I wouldn't be surprised if they did it with oil - especially the walmart supertech branded stuff.

This one you can by looking at the tread wear rating, traction and speed rating... I found this a good while back and will agree Walmart tires are not created equal...

Back to the oil (Supertech) myself along with many other companies rely on the same oil analysis lab so for their full synthetic I do not have issue with it period... I cannot say anything about their dino oil products they sell so each to his own on that one...

 

[Gillbot]

I used to run the Supertech Synthetic blend and it wasn't bad at all.

 

[Meghan54]

In my region Advanced and Autozone must be struggling, or maybe its there buissness model, or maybe i just stay away from the ghetto part of town where there buissness clients reside,

Advance and Autozone ghetto. That's rich considering there's usually a NAPA and a jobber-related parts store within shouting distance of those two---and that's been pretty much true in the regions I've shopped, incl. No. VA/DC area, Cape Cod/Boston, ATL and other parts of GA, SC, FL, NH, NJ, and others.

And if there isn't an Advance or Autozone near the jobber-type parts store, that's usually because the jobber store is in a worse part of town vs. the Advance/Autozone. The jobber-type parts stores are usually the older stores, in sections of town that may have been "nicer" decades ago but now are just decaying parts of town. Of course, the jobber stores predate Advance/Autozone/etc. and are mostly hole-in-the-wall, dirty stores that only a mechanic could tolerate. Been in more than a few, esp. with my brother, who "toured" the jobber stores with me as he picked up parts for his shop.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

In my area (large city), most napas are about 30 miles away from each other while advance/autozone are only 10 miles from each other.

It's easily a 30 minute drive to a napa versus a 5 minute drive to autozone. So, if it's something generic retail (oil, car wash soap, anything packaged) I will deal with autozone.

If it's an actual part I will always go to napa. I've had way too many major major issues with autozone/advance branded parts being way out of spec from the box. Warranty, sure, but that doesn't help me when I've spent 4 hours chasing down some bizarre sensor issue caused by a faulty brand new part.

Past that, advance in my area is TERRIBLE. I will do anything to avoid advance stores. They don't have separate cashiers, so you have to wait in line with people who can't communicate properly trying to diagnose some issue just to ring up my $2.99 bulb. Their stores seem to be very poorly managed. They are poorly stocked. Their workers are all miserable and depressing to deal with.

Napa > Rockauto > Autozone > OReillys > Advance

 

[slag]

Napa > Rockauto > Autozone > OReillys > Advance

I've never had a problem with any of them. Sure, every once in awhile I'll get a bad rebuilt starter or alternator but its the nature of the beast. I go to napa when I need parts for my mercruiser. Otherwise, its usually autozone with the 40 and 50% off coupons they always seem to have.

 

[jolancer]

Advance and Autozone ghetto. That's rich considering there's usually a NAPA and a jobber-related parts store within shouting distance of those two---and that's been pretty much true in the regions I've shopped, incl. No. VA/DC area, Cape Cod/Boston, ATL and other parts of GA, SC, FL, NH, NJ, and others.

not that it matters, but just clearifying.. i was responding to the post referring to there buisness clients. not retail locations. I don't see as nearly as much if any at all Advanced/autozone delivery trucks in my area as apposed to reputable parts dealers.

 

[sontakke]

Suppose the story about the Castrol/Walmart is true. Does anybody here actually believes that somebody manning the phone lines at Castrol would be privy to that information and will be willing to tell the juicy details to some random guy who called?

As this topic has shown, the common sense is hard to come by here.

 

[Zorba]

Suppose the story about the Castrol/Walmart is true. Does anybody here actually believes that somebody manning the phone lines at Castrol would be privy to that information and will be willing to tell the juicy details to some random guy who called?

As this topic has shown, the common sense is hard to come by here.

They had a list of lot numbers, IIRC it was 4 lots, with 3 different weights. All the lot numbers were bottled exclusively for wal-mart.

It is extremely common when there is a recall or notice of issue for the customer service reps to know where the product is/was sold. I specifically asked if it was limited to the wal-mart exclusive bottles or if all shops had it, since I didn't trust the oil and wasn't about to go buy another bad jug.

I also think they must have gotten quite a few calls about the issue because the phone operator immediately knew what I was talking about, and immediately started damage control.

Now, that doesn't mean that Wal-Mart had any knowledge of the issue before hand, or that they specifically bought the oil at a discount from Castrol, but with Wal-Mart's history I wouldn't put it past them.

EDIT: Just to clarify this part of my original post was 100% my opinion and interpretation. Castrol didn't say anything specific about Wal-Mart, except that the affected lots where only sold at Wal-Mart.

I.e. nobody else would take the oil that didn't meet 100% of all specs, including smell. Wal-Mart, however, was happy to have the discount.

 

[desy]

Suck it oil change babies
http://www.dutchdailynews.com/oil-change/

Former director of Castrol engine oil, now says that oil changing is not necessary at all. He already drove 350,000 kilometers himself on the same oil. Henk de Groot finds the complete oil-changing industry a big waste.

That's about 217,000 miles
FWIW I use Synthetic 'any brand as long as its the right weight' change once a yr, 15-18kmiles on two vehicles

 

[BUTCH1]

Suck it oil change babies
http://www.dutchdailynews.com/oil-change/

Former director of Castrol engine oil, now says that oil changing is not necessary at all. He already drove 350,000 kilometers himself on the same oil. Henk de Groot finds the complete oil-changing industry a big waste.

That's about 217,000 miles
FWIW I use Synthetic 'any brand as long as its the right weight' change once a yr, 15-18kmiles on two vehicles

I find that info sketchy at best, yes, modern cars can go much longer between intervals but when my OLM indicator tells me it's time, I'm changing the oil, $20-30 every 4 months is really cheap insurance if you think about it..

 

[Meghan54]

They had a list of lot numbers, IIRC it was 4 lots, with 3 different weights. All the lot numbers were bottled exclusively for wal-mart.

It is extremely common when there is a recall or notice of issue for the customer service reps to know where the product is/was sold. I specifically asked if it was limited to the wal-mart exclusive bottles or if all shops had it, since I didn't trust the oil and wasn't about to go buy another bad jug.

I also think they must have gotten quite a few calls about the issue because the phone operator immediately knew what I was talking about, and immediately started damage control.

Now, that doesn't mean that Wal-Mart had any knowledge of the issue before hand, or that they specifically bought the oil at a discount from Castrol, but with Wal-Mart's history I wouldn't put it past them.

EDIT: Just to clarify this part of my original post was 100% my opinion and interpretation. Castrol didn't say anything specific about Wal-Mart, except that the affected lots where only sold at Wal-Mart.

You blame WalMart instead of Castrol, eh? How much of an oil testing facility do you think WalMart has? Or NAPA? Or any parts selling store?

I'd put the onus squarely on Castrol in this instance as this was a Castrol problem, not a WalMart problem. If the oil wasn't 'up to snuff", it probably didn't pass QC testing and should never have been bottled in the first place. Just because WalMart doesn't test every lot of oil doesn't make WM the villain here...no parts chain tests their delivered boxed oil shipments and instead depends upon the manufacturer to ensure through quality control and testing that what's being bottled and packaged meets quality standards. Makes me think much less of Castrol than of Walmart.

 

[Meghan54]

Suck it oil change babies
http://www.dutchdailynews.com/oil-change/

Former director of Castrol engine oil, now says that oil changing is not necessary at all. He already drove 350,000 kilometers himself on the same oil. Henk de Groot finds the complete oil-changing industry a big waste.

That's about 217,000 miles
FWIW I use Synthetic 'any brand as long as its the right weight' change once a yr, 15-18kmiles on two vehicles

What's not being said is that the oil that's being claimed to be in the crankcase is NOT what was there 350,000 Km ago. Engines burn oil, so that engine's been "topped off" several times, which in essence is adding a quart every few thousand Km. Then there's the issue of no oil filter will last 350,000 Km without clogging and going into bypass, which indicates that the filter has been changed a few times over that 350,000 Km of driving, along with the addition of the quart of oil that was removed when the filter was changed. So he's NOT on the original oil he started out with, unless he's a complete dumbass.

I find that article a little misleading at best.

 

[jolancer]

You blame WalMart instead of Castrol, eh? How much of an oil testing facility do you think WalMart has? Or NAPA? Or any parts selling store?

I'd put the onus squarely on Castrol in this instance as this was a Castrol problem, not a WalMart problem. If the oil wasn't 'up to snuff", it probably didn't pass QC testing and should never have been bottled in the first place. Just because WalMart doesn't test every lot of oil doesn't make WM the villain here...no parts chain tests their delivered boxed oil shipments and instead depends upon the manufacturer to ensure through quality control and testing that what's being bottled and packaged meets quality standards. Makes me think much less of Castrol than of Walmart.

[EDIT: Meghan54 on the same note - justa thought but if someone paid you to sell your s hit in a bottle relabled as chocolate fudge... who would they blame? you or the person paying you to sell it as chocolate fudge? ]

a long time ago i saw some type of news show, might of been a documentary, specifically about walmart, they interviewed a few product supplyers and walmart exects, at the location walmart holds there meetings where new supplyers pitch there buissness at walmart... near the start of this thread i tried searching for it but came up empty, i thought maybe it was on pbs, but all i found there was frontline : is walmart good for america documentary, but that doesn't look like what i saw.... In what i saw the supplyers told the interviewer... I don't remember exact wording but it went like this - they pitch there product to walmart for a reasonable deal, and walmart shoots them all down and gives them an altimatum, to get there products to a lower cost or gtfo, and they don't care how they do it just make it cheap.

..about the link desy posted - you guys realize that could be a hoax or someone hackedm and put it up as a joke... It might not be but like Meghan54 said, theres a lot of relavant info missing... on the same note if seen cars where i think people actually did this LoL, never changed oil.. and i believe a car would probably still run if you never changed it... but how much gas are you going to need to put into it if the mpg is cut in half because the bearings n s hit are shot

 

[Meghan54]

[EDIT: Meghan54 on the same note - justa thought but if someone paid you to sell your s hit in a bottle relabled as chocolate fudge... who would they blame? you or the person paying you to sell it as chocolate fudge? ]

WTF does that have to do with anything or mean? But I'll try....if I was selling hot sauce and it got relabeled as fudge, sure, the seller moving it as fudge is responsible. But that's not at issue here, is it? WM is not relabeling bottles of oil Castrol packages as something else.

If I'm a major retailer and contract with a supplier to supply me with something, like oil, I expect the bottles of that, which is labeled to meet API specs that's it's labeled for, to do exactly that. The onus for the quality inside those bottles of API cert'd oil falls squarely on the manufacturer. Of course, if the quality isn't there, naturally the consumer is going to complain to the retailer the product was purchased from, but that still doesn't mean the manufacturer isn't responsible for what was put into the bottles.

All you have to do is look at product recalls.....the manufacturer is held responsible, not the retailer. Food immediately comes to mind with that. Tainted food products routinely get recalled, be it contaminated beef or bean sprouts. But the retailers aren't held as responsible but instead the grower/manufacturer.


Now, we all do understand WalMart puts pricing pressure on suppliers of the goods sold in WM. That's an undisputed fact. And WM will often play one supplier against another simply to get cheaper wholesale prices. But that in no way diminishes the fact that a standardized good like motor oil, a good that has a certification standard to meet, has to meet that standard....otherwise the manufacturer is cheating the end customer.

But I guess it's easier and more convenient to assume that WM is the one cheating....and that Castrol, et al, are in no way responsible for the product they produce, esp. when said product states clearly it meets a certification standard.

Realistically, I doubt Castrol, Mobil, whoever, is going to cut their nose off just to meet a 5 cent lower wholesale price vs. the volume they can move through WM. Just makes no sense to jeopardize their reputation that way.

True, Levi's in WM are different than from Macy's, but they're also labeled differently. TV's carry different model numbers in WM vs. Best Buy. The computers carry differing model numbers, etc., etc. But something like motor oil.....just have a hard time accepting WM conspires with Mobil, Castrol, Valvoline, Pennzoil, et al, to accept 1/4 vegetable oil mixed with the dino oils to drive the end price down.....or that WM knowingly and willingly accepts a product that would not pass the certification for said product, namely the API cert. To do that knowingly and with the cooperation of the manufacturer just smacks of collusion and lawsuit material.

 

[jolancer]

you can blame them both, but walmart is the one in there buisness providing fuel to the fire. The people who would have a reason to or know how to bring up a law suit for such a matter don't shop at walmart and don't care... the gangsters and hillbillies there buying this stuff to wouldn't know the diff and would never bring up a law suit... and to be honest i personally don't blame the suppliers, if walmart paid me to bottle my s hit and lable it as chocolate fudge, i would do it as long as there paying me.. why anyone would buy it would be a hole different matter.

...depressing thought, about the food you mention, on that note i have a first hand true story - i worked at walmart for a part time job on the side.. or tried to at least.. it was at a nicer one to, middle higher class suburb area.. the s hit i saw, I couldn't stand it even part time, but instead of complaining or reporting anything i saw.. Iv had enough experience to realize people, especially the managment of such companies themself don't care and must be bribing inspections and regulations to get away with certain things.. so i just left withouta peep, and let walmart be walmart..

..the way the employees handled meat products for example - they unpackaged and labeled them outside of the cooler, probably took them longer to get the meat packages preped and into the display coolers than it does for me to leave home go to the grocery store get what i need and bring it back to my own fridge.. And I'm sure they have policies in there books somewere, but cross contamination was on NO bodys mind, except for mine i guess.. for example using the pda's/scanners with meat bloody hands and then washing your hands and picking back up the meat bloody scanner and giving it to other employees in the store was a good idea... and shopping carts used to transport various items including outdated unpackaged throwaway meat product, is put back into customer circulation without a single thought of...should i clean the salmonella off this before handing it to unsuspecting victums ooops i mean customers...and i'm refering to dep managers doing these things aswell. And yes i did everything i could to point out the danger in these actions NOT lol. seriously i didn't say i thing, i got the f u k out as quickly and quietly as possible.... I know walmart isn't the only type of retailer where such thing go on, but hell i don't think that makes it a good idea.

 

[Gillbot]

I'll leave this here: http://www.businessmanagementdaily.com/24872/how-snappers-ceo-said-noto-wal-mart

Moral, if you let your quality slip to meet a price point for a seller, YOU are responsible.

 

[Zorba]

You blame WalMart instead of Castrol, eh? How much of an oil testing facility do you think WalMart has? Or NAPA? Or any parts selling store?

I'd put the onus squarely on Castrol in this instance as this was a Castrol problem, not a WalMart problem. If the oil wasn't 'up to snuff", it probably didn't pass QC testing and should never have been bottled in the first place. Just because WalMart doesn't test every lot of oil doesn't make WM the villain here...no parts chain tests their delivered boxed oil shipments and instead depends upon the manufacturer to ensure through quality control and testing that what's being bottled and packaged meets quality standards. Makes me think much less of Castrol than of Walmart.

Actually, after I talked to Castrol and found out they knowingly sold the oil, I stopped buying Castrol. Since I talked to them, I have never bought another castrol product. Castrol did claim they had it independently tested, and it passed on everything except odor, but IMHO that still makes it b-stock and it should've been sold as such, or blended back into good stuff to diffuse the odor. I still didn't trust it, because WTH was making it smell so bad if everything was just fine? It also really upset me they had nothing about it on their website, you had to call to talk to someone and their phone bank was closed when I was working on the cars.

As for Wally, they may have had no idea and they were just the unlucky to get those lots. But what I have always assumed happened was Castrol called up Wally and said "Hey we've got this oil that smells, but is otherwise fine. If you take it off our hands we'll give you a good deal." and Wally said "sure." (Again, this is 100% my assumption and could be completely false)

I don't have any expectation that Wally test oil it receives, but knowingly buying b-stock items kind of fits their SOP.

 

[SpatiallyAware]

This "B stock" issue is a problem for many retailers who strongly negotiate on price. Even my beloved costco is not immune... In costco's case, they have dropped brands due to issues with B quality shipments. I imagine walmart is less picky.

 

[desy]

No doubt oil was topped off and probably filter changes which would require additional oil but my point is that oil changes are OVERATED in terms what needs doing to a car.
If you want your vehicle to run you should maintain it, Back the 80's our recommended fleet vehicles were 6000 miles changes because of all the HW driving we did, never had an engine issues across North America among thousands of fleets. Cars today are much better!
If you in Simpsons fashion want to pay the Bear tax and then assume the lack of bears is because of paying the bear tax go for it. I've never heard of a blown engine in 35 yrs of driving due to oil quality issues, and pretty much every time the rest of it falls apart before the engine does even with gross neglect.

 

[deadken]

What's not being said is that the oil that's being claimed to be in the crankcase is NOT what was there 350,000 Km ago. Engines burn oil, so that engine's been "topped off" several times, which in essence is adding a quart every few thousand Km. Then there's the issue of no oil filter will last 350,000 Km without clogging and going into bypass, which indicates that the filter has been changed a few times over that 350,000 Km of driving, along with the addition of the quart of oil that was removed when the filter was changed. So he's NOT on the original oil he started out with, unless he's a complete dumbass...

I still have my great grandfathers axe! It's over 100 years old. Sure, we've changed the head as needed and even changed the handle whenever it broke. But... It's still my great grandfathers axe, RIGHT??!?!?!?!?

WOW! This thread has gotten so far off topic it's insane! I agree with whoever said that they've lost a few brain cells reading through it (Sheesh, I can't even remember his name!).

As to the OP: It's no big deal if you changed your oil hot or cold. While hot oil *might* flow better than cold oil (it all depends on the temps we are talking about) you've also gotten more of the old oil out of the car because of more oil draining back into the pan. More of the 'cling' oil settles down because of gravity, which is why they say a cold start up is harsh on engines (it can take a few seconds to get the oil back up to the top end / everywhere). So, you could actually get more oil out of a cold engine compared to a warm engine. Of course, the small amount of difference doesn't really matter either way. Well, unless you suffer from OCD.

As to how contaminents settle start to settle out of the oil within 2 minutes: I'd be surprised if most do it yourself oil change guys get all of the draining done within 2 minutes. Besides, doesn't that make the case for letting the car sit overnight? So that all of the heavy stuff has a chance to fall back into the pan? If you are going to say that it doesn't matter, because you meant that the heavy stuff settles into little galleys in the head, etc.. then it wouldn't matter how fast you change it. The contaminents will end up in 'pockets' no matter if the oil was hot or cold.

Owww! There goes another brain cell! Why did I stoop so low as to entertain any of this?!? Thanks a lot OP! You've contributed more to ATTG guys getting Alzheimer's disease then inadequately ventilated workspaces and excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages COMBINED!

EDIT: I don't have any expectation that Wally test oil it receives, but knowingly buying b-stock items kind of fits their SOP. Fits their SOP?!? I thought it was more of a business model than a standard operating practice...

 

[BUTCH1]

I still have my great grandfathers axe! It's over 100 years old. Sure, we've changed the head as needed and even changed the handle whenever it broke. But... It's still my great grandfathers axe, RIGHT??!?!?!?!?

WOW! This thread has gotten so far off topic it's insane! I agree with whoever said that they've lost a few brain cells reading through it (Sheesh, I can't even remember his name!).

As to the OP: It's no big deal if you changed your oil hot or cold. While hot oil *might* flow better than cold oil (it all depends on the temps we are talking about) you've also gotten more of the old oil out of the car because of more oil draining back into the pan. More of the 'cling' oil settles down because of gravity, which is why they say a cold start up is harsh on engines (it can take a few seconds to get the oil back up to the top end / everywhere). So, you could actually get more oil out of a cold engine compared to a warm engine. Of course, the small amount of difference doesn't really matter either way. Well, unless you suffer from OCD.

As to how contaminents settle start to settle out of the oil within 2 minutes: I'd be surprised if most do it yourself oil change guys get all of the draining done within 2 minutes. Besides, doesn't that make the case for letting the car sit overnight? So that all of the heavy stuff has a chance to fall back into the pan? If you are going to say that it doesn't matter, because you meant that the heavy stuff settles into little galleys in the head, etc.. then it wouldn't matter how fast you change it. The contaminents will end up in 'pockets' no matter if the oil was hot or cold.

Owww! There goes another brain cell! Why did I stoop so low as to entertain any of this?!? Thanks a lot OP! You've contributed more to ATTG guys getting Alzheimer's disease then inadequately ventilated workspaces and excessive consumption of alcoholic beverages COMBINED!

EDIT: I don't have any expectation that Wally test oil it receives, but knowingly buying b-stock items kind of fits their SOP. Fits their SOP?!? I thought it was more of a business model than a standard operating practice...

Sorry, I had no idea the topic would generate this much controversy and a lot of people have the multi-viscosity issue backwards, when the oil is stone-cold it's at it's lowest viscosity so it can flow quickly to the internals, then it gradually thickens up to it's highest number, everyone who posted "warm it up so it flows better has it totally backwards..

 

[Zorba]

Sorry, I had no idea the topic would generate this much controversy and a lot of people have the multi-viscosity issue backwards, when the oil is stone-cold it's at it's lowest viscosity so it can flow quickly to the internals, then it gradually thickens up to it's highest number, everyone who posted "warm it up so it flows better has it totally backwards..

No you have it backwards. Basically all oils get thinner as they heat up. The 5w-30 means that it acts like a SAE 5 weight oil at low temperature and acts like a SAE 30 at warmer temperatures. The 5 and 30 aren't a viscosity, they relate to a specific set of properties put out by SAE.

I'll just leave some links for you:
Valvoline Oil Properties

More graphs

 

[deadken]

Sorry, I had no idea the topic would generate this much controversy...

Please... Don't take me serious.

... and a lot of people have the multi-viscosity issue backwards, when the oil is stone-cold it's at it's lowest viscosity so it can flow quickly to the internals, then it gradually thickens up to it's highest number, everyone who posted "warm it up so it flows better has it totally backwards

Well, I don't believe you have that correct. But, I don't believe it matters much in your case (IIRC, you live in FL), so the temp of oil left sitting in your car overnight shouldn't be so cold that it really affects how it flows as you drain it.

A simple experiment would be to put some of that oil in the freezer overnight and watch how it pours into a pyrex glass the next day. Then heat it up and see if you can tell it flows better. I'm pretty sure it'll be obvious that it does. Of course, be safe and wear appropriate safety equipment. Umm.... I'm pretty sure some will say that you shouldn't use that pyrex for cooking food anymore.

EDIT: Ok, Zorba beat me to it and his post has nifty graphs!

 

[BUTCH1]

Please... Don't take me serious.


Well, I don't believe you have that correct. But, I don't believe it matters much in your case (IIRC, you live in FL), so the temp of oil left sitting in your car overnight shouldn't be so cold that it really affects how it flows as you drain it.

A simple experiment would be to put some of that oil in the freezer overnight and watch how it pours into a pyrex glass the next day. Then heat it up and see if you can tell it flows better. I'm pretty sure it'll be obvious that it does. Of course, be safe and wear appropriate safety equipment. Umm.... I'm pretty sure some will say that you shouldn't use that pyrex for cooking food anymore.

EDIT: Ok, Zorba beat me to it and his post has nifty graphs!

Hmm, looks like I was totally WRONG on this one LOL, anyhoo I was thinking that by draining after an overnight sit I'd get more of the old out, looks like it didn't help at all but I don't think I did anything that would degrade the oil change, even if I'm not the sharpest tool in the shed at least I keep my oil changed, you'd be surprised at the amount of people that just put gas in a car and drive it for years without so much as popping the hood to check anything at all, sad really..