Oil & Gas thread:12-17-08 OPEC & non-members agree to largest reduction in history 7 percent

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: JohnCU
i still haven't drove for five yet

SOME DAY you will JohnCU. Some day. And when that day comes, even if it's 6 years later, Dave will proclaim he is a visionary LOL

Many people have been syaing it's odd that it's not at least $5 now if not more based on how high oil has gone.

Europe is paying over $10, why are your Oil buds holding back here in te U.S.?

You seem to have an inside track with them even more so than I did when I lived in their backyard so let's hear it.

Doesnt matter what people say. It isnt 5/gal like you said it would be two Christmases ago.

If you actually KNEW anything about how oil is priced, and how gasoline is taxed, you would know why it is more expensive in Europe and Asia. But you dont, and you refuse to learn. Inside track? Not really. I'll give you a hint though...the higher prices have NOTHINg to do with per barrel pricing.

Do your own reading. For once.

 

[trenchfoot]

well, from what i've read so far in this thread, i'm to assume that no matter if the demand for oil goes up or down, profits from it will continue to go up by leaps and bounds for no apparent reason. hmmmm. yeah, that makes sense. if refineries aren't making a killing, and the poor oil robber barons are portraying themselves as patriotic loyal americans that are just getting by from day to day then who is responsible for the cost of fuel and resulting profits surging the way it has since bush and cheney (both oilmen themselves) took office? gee, i'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

so much for the theory of supply and demand. lol

edit- syntax

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: tweaker2
well, from what i've read so far in this thread, i'm to assume that no matter if the demand for oil goes up or down, profits from it will continue to go up by leaps and bounds for no apparent reason. hmmmm. yeah, that makes sense. if refineries aren't making a killing, and the poor oil robber barons are portraying themselves as patriotic loyal americans that are just getting by from day to day then who is responsible for the cost of fuel and resulting profits surging the way it has since bush and cheney (both oilmen themselves) took office? gee, i'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

so much for the theory of supply and demand. lol

edit- syntax

You have to remember it isnt just US consumption we're talking about either when it comes to supply/demand. Asia is a HUGE factor right now. And its also not that simple. Refining and drilling play a part also.

As far as your "poor oil robber barons" comment goes...well...I dont think anyone in this thread (or any other for that matter) has accused those at the VP level or higher of being "poor". Not sure where you got that idea from.

And ...um...your Bush and Cheney comments. I'll offer you the same deal I offered Dave. Provide clear and irrefutable proof either one of them has something to do with the profits of the oil companies and I'll paypal you $10.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: tweaker2
well, from what i've read so far in this thread, i'm to assume that no matter if the demand for oil goes up or down, profits from it will continue to go up by leaps and bounds for no apparent reason. hmmmm. yeah, that makes sense. if refineries aren't making a killing, and the poor oil robber barons are portraying themselves as patriotic loyal americans that are just getting by from day to day then who is responsible for the cost of fuel and resulting profits surging the way it has since bush and cheney (both oilmen themselves) took office? gee, i'm sure that had nothing to do with it.

so much for the theory of supply and demand. lol

edit- syntax

You have to remember it isnt just US consumption we're talking about either when it comes to supply/demand. Asia is a HUGE factor right now. And its also not that simple. Refining and drilling play a part also.

As far as your "poor oil robber barons" comment goes...well...I dont think anyone in this thread (or any other for that matter) has accused those at the VP level or higher of being "poor". Not sure where you got that idea from.

And ...um...your Bush and Cheney comments. I'll offer you the same deal I offered Dave. Provide clear and irrefutable proof either one of them has something to do with the profits of the oil companies and I'll paypal you $10.

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Maybe if environmentalists would let us build refineries instead of screaming bloody murder....

Then they all wouldn?t have to operate at 100% capacity all the time, and you wouldn?t scream bloody murder when they don?t.

Your false echos blaming non-existent eco-environmentalists is beyond old:

March 3, 2008 Valero may sell U.S. plants in hard refinery times

Top U.S. refining company Valero Energy Corp (VLO.N) said on Tuesday it is considering selling nearly a third of its North American refineries amid a U.S. economic slowdown that is crimping fuel demand, and that it is exploring new projects in the Middle East and Asia.

The outlook marks a major shift in Valero's strategy after a decade of sterling profits, acquisitions and expansions transformed the San Antonio-based company from small independent refiner into a behemoth.

Valero Chief Executive Bill Klesse, speaking at the National Petrochemical and Refiners Association meeting, said the company is close to selling refineries in Aruba, Memphis, Tennessee, and Krotz Springs, Louisiana, and has received interest from potential buyers for two other plants.

Klesse reiterated that Valero will spend about $4 billion to $5 billon on capital expenditures this year and about $5 billon in 2009.

Valero two weeks ago announced it will spend $2.4 billion to expand its Port Arthur, Texas refinery by the mid-2011. The expansion of the refinery will boost throughput to 415,000 bpd from the current capacity of 325,000 bpd.

U.S. 'GOLDEN AGE' OVER

After a stretch of soaring profits that Valero once dubbed "the golden age" of refining, the sector in the United States has faced a sharp downturn.

Surging crude oil prices, softening demand growth, tough environmental regulations and rising costs for materials and labor have cut into margins and led U.S. refiners to slow fuel production and scrap more than a half a million barrels per day in expansion plans in recent months.
==================================================
Criminal.

All these people should be held accountable and put in prison including those that support these criminals.

If not environmentalists, then who is responsible, or what is the cause, of abandoning US refineries?

I posted absolutely crystal clear proof right out of the top Refiner's mouth here in the U.S. that it has nothing to do with Supply and Demand and they aren't running at 100% as you claim and in fact they are scaling back and selling off Refinery capacity in the U.S. on purpose yet you continue to spout drivel and garbage.

Why is this continued to be allowed?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I posted absolutely crystal clear proof right out of the top Refiner's mouth here in the U.S. that it has nothing to do with Supply and Demand and they aren't running at 100% as you claim and in fact they are scaling back and selling off Refinery capacity in the U.S. on purpose yet you continue to spout drivel and garbage.

Why is this continued to be allowed?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Instead of a government takeover of current companies, I propose the government opens up an oil company to produce/manage refineries so you can show the current oil companies how its done.

Government competition in an open market would be a more ideal solution than a government take over. You can become the ?Wal-Mart? of gasoline and put everyone else out of business with lower prices if you?re so damn good.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

I posted absolutely crystal clear proof right out of the top Refiner's mouth here in the U.S. that it has nothing to do with Supply and Demand and they aren't running at 100% as you claim and in fact they are scaling back and selling off Refinery capacity in the U.S. on purpose yet you continue to spout drivel and garbage.

Why is this continued to be allowed?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Why would you post this comment regarding two seperate issues? Did you cut/paste by mistake? You post two completely seperate issues

Theres interesting quotes from the full article from Reuters, which you didnt post (of course):

Subsidized prices and a weakening U.S. dollar have helped keep fuel demand high in many consuming nations, he said.

Surging crude oil prices, softening demand growth, tough environmental regulations and rising costs for materials and labor have cut into margins and led U.S. refiners to slow fuel production

He added that poor margins, particularly in the Midwest, had led the company to slow some gasoline production even as pump prices hit new peaks.

-------------------------------------------------------------------

Kinda opposes some of your comments and theories.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I posted absolutely crystal clear proof right out of the top Refiner's mouth here in the U.S. that it has nothing to do with Supply and Demand and they aren't running at 100% as you claim and in fact they are scaling back and selling off Refinery capacity in the U.S. on purpose yet you continue to spout drivel and garbage.

Why is this continued to be allowed?

Inquiring minds would like to know.

Instead of a government takeover of current companies, I propose the government opens up an oil company to produce/manage refineries so you can show the current oil companies how its done.

Government competition in an open market would be a more ideal solution than a government take over. You can become the ?Wal-Mart? of gasoline and put everyone else out of business with lower prices if you?re so damn good.

I'm not opposed to whatever it take to get the job done.

I see it as either put the oil thugs in prison or as you said beat them at their own game.

 

[Jaskalas]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Instead of a government takeover of current companies, I propose the government opens up an oil company to produce/manage refineries so you can show the current oil companies how its done.

Government competition in an open market would be a more ideal solution than a government take over. You can become the ?Wal-Mart? of gasoline and put everyone else out of business with lower prices if you?re so damn good.

I'm not opposed to whatever it take to get the job done.

I see it as either put the oil thugs in prison or as you said beat them at their own game.

If "their own game" is to produce cheap gasoline for the consumer and they are indeed inflating prices, then competition that is determined to achieve the lowest price would knock them out of the way or defeat them so handedly they would be forced to match your low price.

If you put them in prison and dissolve the oil companies and/or have a government takeover, then I view it is as a possible disaster. Our government with a monopoly is both slow and bloated and I fear for its competence or corruption when it comes to controlling such a resource. Imagine for a moment if Clinton had done this prior to the Bush presidency. Would you want that man to be an oil Czar for the past eight years?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Instead of a government takeover of current companies, I propose the government opens up an oil company to produce/manage refineries so you can show the current oil companies how its done.

Government competition in an open market would be a more ideal solution than a government take over. You can become the ?Wal-Mart? of gasoline and put everyone else out of business with lower prices if you?re so damn good.

I'm not opposed to whatever it take to get the job done.

I see it as either put the oil thugs in prison or as you said beat them at their own game.

If "their own game" is to produce cheap gasoline for the consumer and they are indeed inflating prices, then competition that is determined to achieve the lowest price would knock them out of the way or defeat them so handedly they would be forced to match your low price.

If you put them in prison and dissolve the oil companies and/or have a government takeover, then I view it is as a possible disaster. Our government with a monopoly is both slow and bloated and I fear for its competence or corruption when it comes to controlling such a resource. Imagine for a moment if Clinton had done this prior to the Bush presidency. Would you want that man to be an oil Czar for the past eight years?

It can be run like the military not necessarily like an admin office, huge difference.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jaskalas

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Jaskalas
Instead of a government takeover of current companies, I propose the government opens up an oil company to produce/manage refineries so you can show the current oil companies how its done.

Government competition in an open market would be a more ideal solution than a government take over. You can become the ?Wal-Mart? of gasoline and put everyone else out of business with lower prices if you?re so damn good.

I'm not opposed to whatever it take to get the job done.

I see it as either put the oil thugs in prison or as you said beat them at their own game.

If "their own game" is to produce cheap gasoline for the consumer and they are indeed inflating prices, then competition that is determined to achieve the lowest price would knock them out of the way or defeat them so handedly they would be forced to match your low price.

If you put them in prison and dissolve the oil companies and/or have a government takeover, then I view it is as a possible disaster. Our government with a monopoly is both slow and bloated and I fear for its competence or corruption when it comes to controlling such a resource. Imagine for a moment if Clinton had done this prior to the Bush presidency. Would you want that man to be an oil Czar for the past eight years?

It can be run like the military not necessarily like an admin office, huge difference.

oh WTF lol now Im curious how this would be done. Please explain. Keep in mind the only way youre going to control (you, as in Dave) is 1. lower the taxes, 2. lower the cost of drilling and exploration, or 3. convince traders to manipulate the market.

Please explain how you would do this.

 

[Engineer]

Summer gasoline usage to drop for first time since 1991.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Record-high gasoline prices will reduce U.S. demand for the fuel this summer by 85,000 barrels per day compared with last summer, the first drop in summer motor fuel consumption since 1991, the government's top energy forecaster said on Monday.

ADVERTISEMENT



"We see a slowdown in gasoline demand," Guy Caruso, head of the federal Energy Information Administration, told reporters. "We are for the first in a long time actually looking at a lower demand for gasoline this summer than last summer."

Summer gasoline consumption is forecast to decline 0.9 percent, less than 1991's summer drop of 1.1 percent, but certainly opposite of the 1.5 percent growth the U.S. normally sees in gasoline demand, according to an EIA official.

Caruso was reluctant to expand on the EIA's revised estimates, saying the agency will release on Tuesday its official summer gasoline forecast.

Caruso said the agency will upwardly revise its forecast for the peak price that consumers will pay for gasoline this summer to above $3.60 a gallon. He said the EIA still does not believe the average pump price will hit $4 a gallon on a national basis, though it will reach that level in some parts of the country.

The national price for regular, self-service gasoline jumped 4.2 cents over the last week to set a new record of $3.33 a gallon, up 53 cents from a year ago, the EIA said on Monday its weekly survey of service stations.

Separately, Caruso said OPEC needs to pump more oil supplies to help lower crude prices that are above $100 a barrel. "We think the market is still very tight," he said. "We're calling for more OPEC oil in the first half of 2008."

OPEC Secretary-General Abdullah al-Badri said over the weekend that there was plenty of oil in the market and OPEC does not need to increase its output levels.

Badri blamed high crude prices on a weak U.S. dollar, a shortage of refining capacity and geopolitical tensions in major oil producing countries.

Caruso said some of those factors mentioned by Badri are contributing to the volatility in oil prices, "but not to the level, the sharp rise" that crude costs have soared.

(Reporting by Tom Doggett; Editing by Marguerita Choy)

Heh, you reap what you sow.

 

[ElFenix]

refiners profits are actually way down this year.

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: ElFenix
refiners profits are actually way down this year.

Thats because Bush & Co are stealing them all.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: Engineer
Summer gasoline usage to drop for first time since 1991.

WASHINGTON (Reuters) - Record-high gasoline prices will reduce U.S. demand for the fuel this summer by 85,000 barrels per day compared with last summer, the first drop in summer motor fuel consumption since 1991, the government's top energy forecaster said on Monday.

ADVERTISEMENT



"We see a slowdown in gasoline demand," Guy Caruso, head of the federal Energy Information Administration, told reporters. "We are for the first in a long time actually looking at a lower demand for gasoline this summer than last summer."

Summer gasoline consumption is forecast to decline 0.9 percent, less than 1991's summer drop of 1.1 percent, but certainly opposite of the 1.5 percent growth the U.S. normally sees in gasoline demand, according to an EIA official.

Caruso was reluctant to expand on the EIA's revised estimates, saying the agency will release on Tuesday its official summer gasoline forecast.

Caruso said the agency will upwardly revise its forecast for the peak price that consumers will pay for gasoline this summer to above $3.60 a gallon. He said the EIA still does not believe the average pump price will hit $4 a gallon on a national basis, though it will reach that level in some parts of the country.

The national price for regular, self-service gasoline jumped 4.2 cents over the last week to set a new record of $3.33 a gallon, up 53 cents from a year ago, the EIA said on Monday its weekly survey of service stations.

Separately, Caruso said OPEC needs to pump more oil supplies to help lower crude prices that are above $100 a barrel. "We think the market is still very tight," he said. "We're calling for more OPEC oil in the first half of 2008."

OPEC Secretary-General Abdullah al-Badri said over the weekend that there was plenty of oil in the market and OPEC does not need to increase its output levels.

Badri blamed high crude prices on a weak U.S. dollar, a shortage of refining capacity and geopolitical tensions in major oil producing countries.

Caruso said some of those factors mentioned by Badri are contributing to the volatility in oil prices, "but not to the level, the sharp rise" that crude costs have soared.

(Reporting by Tom Doggett; Editing by Marguerita Choy)

Heh, you reap what you sow.

Reduced gasoline consumption is good news IMO.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Reduced gasoline consumption is good news IMO.

For who???

 

[Farley2k]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Reduced gasoline consumption is good news IMO.

For who???

Wouldn't it be "everyone"? Since lower gas prices mean lower prices for all products shipped by means which use gas....so basically everything. So, as consumers, we all benefit when gas prices don't rise too much.

 

[CADsortaGUY]

Originally posted by: Farley2k

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Reduced gasoline consumption is good news IMO.

For who???

Wouldn't it be "everyone"? Since lower gas prices mean lower prices for all products shipped by means which use gas....so basically everything. So, as consumers, we all benefit when gas prices don't rise too much.

But if it doesn't directly help dave immediately - then it's BAD BAD BAD...

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic

Reduced gasoline consumption is good news IMO.

For who???

Me, of course. I'm a shill for an environmental group and they cut me a check every time someone consumes less.

 

[dmcowen674]

Woo hooooo on a roll

4-9-2008 Gas, oil prices hit new records

NEW YORK - The upward trend in energy prices showed no sign of abating Wednesday as gasoline set yet another record at the pump and crude oil reached its own milestone in the futures market.

The national average price of a gallon of regular unleaded gas rose 1.2 cents to a record $3.343 a gallon.

Light, sweet crude for May delivery up $3.45 to $111.95 on the New York Mercantile Exchange after earlier rising as high as $112.21.

That bests a trading record of $111.80 set last month.

Analysts expect demand for gas and oil to fall further as prices rise.

Theoretically, that should bring prices down.

But so far this year, gas and oil prices have shown little inclination to fall in response to eroding demand.

 

[Vic]

Should we go back to $1/gal. gas and 8 mpg SUV's again, Dave? Didn't you used to rail and cry against that here? Didn't you once say that you wanted gas to go over $10/gal? I know that you did. Haven't you been saying "Drive for 5" for 5 years now? I know that you have. And now it's headed towards $4... and you're angry? And you wonder why no one likes you here anymore... get back to us when you decide to do something besides being a bitchy drama queen, eh?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic
Should we go back to $1/gal. gas and 8 mpg SUV's again, Dave? Didn't you used to rail and cry against that here? Didn't you once say that you wanted gas to go over $10/gal? I know that you did. Haven't you been saying "Drive for 5" for 5 years now? I know that you have. And now it's headed towards $4... and you're angry? And you wonder why no one likes you here anymore... get back to us when you decide to do something besides being a bitchy drama queen, eh?

Higher the better, more suffering the better, it's what Americans like you want.

 

[Vic]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic
Should we go back to $1/gal. gas and 8 mpg SUV's again, Dave? Didn't you used to rail and cry against that here? Didn't you once say that you wanted gas to go over $10/gal? I know that you did. Haven't you been saying "Drive for 5" for 5 years now? I know that you have. And now it's headed towards $4... and you're angry? And you wonder why no one likes you here anymore... get back to us when you decide to do something besides being a bitchy drama queen, eh?

Higher the better, more suffering the better, it's what Americans like you want.

Why do you hate America?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Vic
Should we go back to $1/gal. gas and 8 mpg SUV's again, Dave? Didn't you used to rail and cry against that here? Didn't you once say that you wanted gas to go over $10/gal? I know that you did. Haven't you been saying "Drive for 5" for 5 years now? I know that you have. And now it's headed towards $4... and you're angry? And you wonder why no one likes you here anymore... get back to us when you decide to do something besides being a bitchy drama queen, eh?

Higher the better, more suffering the better, it's what Americans like you want.

Why do you hate America?

Where do you see hate? They are enjoying it, you are enjoying it so I am enjoying it.

 

[Linux23]

So refiners aren't make enough, so they are cutting back production, thus increasing prices at the pump, regardless of lower demand for their product?

Isn't that extortion?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Linux23
So refiners aren't make enough, so they are cutting back production, thus increasing prices at the pump, regardless of lower demand for their product?

Isn't that extortion?

It's called "Free Market" Supply and Demand according to the guys here in P&N.

Just because they artificially manipulate the supply doesn't make it wrong or extortion.

They are doing their job according to the interests of their respective World Leaders (such as king of Saudi Arabia etc), CEO's, Politicians they control and shareholders.

Suck it up, you must comply and enjoy with a smile.