Oil Thread 12/11/06 DRIVE FOR $5 IS DEAD

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Dave, what say you?

Oil Drops on Forecasts for Above-Normal Northeast Temperatures

By Robert Tuttle

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil fell for a second day on forecasts that milder weather moving into the U.S. will reduce demand for heating fuels.

Higher-than-normal temperatures will persist for at least the next six to 10 days in the U.S. northeast, where 80 percent of U.S. heating oil is burned, National Weather Service forecasts show. New York and Philadelphia temperatures will average 57 degrees Fahrenheit (14 degrees Celsius) on Dec. 19, 20 degrees above normal, according to MDA Federal Inc.'s Earthsat Energy.

``When people see the weather forecast being warm, especially in the Northeast, that reduces the demand for heating oil, which, in turn, reduces the demand for crude oil,'' said Andy Lipow, president of Lipow Oil Associates LLC, a consulting company based in Houston. ``At this time of year, it's all about the weather.''

Crude oil for January delivery fell 26 cents, or 0.4 percent, to $61.77 a barrel at 11:19 a.m. on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Prices fell as low as $61.25 earlier, the lowest since Nov. 29.

Brent crude oil on the London-based ICE Futures Exchange was up 5 cents to $62.25 a barrel.

Heating demand in the Northeast through Dec. 18 will be 37 percent below normal, according to forecaster Weather Derivatives in Belton, Missouri.

``A lot of people will be saving on heating costs in the mid part of the month,'' said Dale Mohler, senior meteorologist at AccuWeather Inc. in State College, Pennsylvania. ``As we get out toward Christmas, there might be some cooling off in the East but no prolonged cold.''

Crude oil accounts for about 60 percent the retail price of heating oil. Heating oil for January delivery fell 1.67 cents, or 1 percent, to $1.7406 a gallon in New York.

Output Reduction

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, the producer of 40 percent of the world's oil, meets in Nigeria on Dec. 14 to consider making a second output reduction this year. Crude oil inventories in the U.S., the world's largest consumer, were 14 percent above the five-year average the week ended Dec. 1.

``There is more than adequate crude oil supply, so OPEC actually needs to cut inventories just because the world is running out of room to store the oil,'' Lipow said. ``Judging from what they did in October and November, they weren't very successful.''

OPEC production dropped by 550,000 barrels a day in November, according to a Bloomberg survey last week of oil companies. In October, the group agreed to cut output by 1.2 million barrels a day, starting in November. The group will review its quota policy at this week's meeting.

Ammunition

``It's always very dangerous to announce another cut before the first has been fully implemented, and too many cuts for the first quarter may leave OPEC short of ammunition in the second,'' said Frederic Lasserre, head of commodities research at Paris- based Societe Generale.

``OPEC may say that they agree in principle to cut but that they'll leave the precise timing'' to a later date, he said.

With U.S. oil prices at about $62 a barrel, the group will probably leave quotas unchanged, said Andrew Harrington, a commodities analyst at Australia & New Zealand Banking Group Ltd. in Sydney.

OPEC President Edmund Daukoru, who is also the Nigerian oil minister, said last week he's ``not comfortable'' with current oil prices and Nigeria will seek a cut at the meeting in Abuja. Officials from Venezuela and Iran said within the past two weeks that the group should reduce supply because of rising inventories.

The biggest oil exporter, Saudi Arabia, said on Dec. 1 that stockpiles are too high.

``Unless we see a very, very defined cut of another 500,000 barrels a day at least, the market is going to sell off very, very strongly,'' said Dominick Chirichella, an analyst at Energy Management Inc. in New York.

OPEC convenes this week in Abuja, Nigeria, its first conference in Africa's largest oil-producing nation since 1972.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602099&sid=a0He2aOOua58&refer=energy
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Dave, what say you?

Oil Drops on Forecasts for Above-Normal Northeast Temperatures

By Robert Tuttle

Dec. 11 (Bloomberg) -- Crude oil fell for a second day on forecasts that milder weather moving into the U.S. will reduce demand for heating fuels.

Higher-than-normal temperatures will persist for at least the next six to 10 days in the U.S. northeast, where 80 percent of U.S. heating oil is burned, National Weather Service forecasts show. New York and Philadelphia temperatures will average 57 degrees Fahrenheit (14 degrees Celsius) on Dec. 19, 20 degrees above normal, according to MDA Federal Inc.'s Earthsat Energy.

``When people see the weather forecast being warm, especially in the Northeast, that reduces the demand for heating oil, which, in turn, reduces the demand for crude oil,'' said Andy Lipow, president of Lipow Oil Associates LLC, a consulting company based in Houston. ``At this time of year, it's all about the weather.''

Crude oil for January delivery fell 26 cents, or 0.4 percent, to $61.77 a barrel at 11:19 a.m. on the New York Mercantile Exchange. Prices fell as low as $61.25 earlier, the lowest since Nov. 29.

Brent crude oil on the London-based ICE Futures Exchange was up 5 cents to $62.25 a barrel.

Heating demand in the Northeast through Dec. 18 will be 37 percent below normal, according to forecaster Weather Derivatives in Belton, Missouri.

``A lot of people will be saving on heating costs in the mid part of the month,'' said Dale Mohler, senior meteorologist at AccuWeather Inc. in State College, Pennsylvania. ``As we get out toward Christmas, there might be some cooling off in the East but no prolonged cold.''

Crude oil accounts for about 60 percent the retail price of heating oil. Heating oil for January delivery fell 1.67 cents, or 1 percent, to $1.7406 a gallon in New York.

Output Reduction

The Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries, the producer of 40 percent of the world's oil, meets in Nigeria on Dec. 14 to consider making a second output reduction this year. Crude oil inventories in the U.S., the world's largest consumer, were 14 percent above the five-year average the week ended Dec. 1.

``There is more than adequate crude oil supply, so OPEC actually needs to cut inventories just because the world is running out of room to store the oil,'' Lipow said. ``Judging from what they did in October and November, they weren't very successful.''

OPEC production dropped by 550,000 barrels a day in November, according to a Bloomberg survey last week of oil companies. In October, the group agreed to cut output by 1.2 million barrels a day, starting in November. The group will review its quota policy at this week's meeting.

Ammunition

``It's always very dangerous to announce another cut before the first has been fully implemented, and too many cuts for the first quarter may leave OPEC short of ammunition in the second,'' said Frederic Lasserre, head of commodities research at Paris- based Societe Generale.

``OPEC may say that they agree in principle to cut but that they'll leave the precise timing'' to a later date, he said.

With U.S. oil prices at about $62 a barrel, the group will probably leave quotas unchanged, said Andrew Harrington, a commodities analyst at Australia & New Zealand Banking Group Ltd. in Sydney.

OPEC President Edmund Daukoru, who is also the Nigerian oil minister, said last week he's ``not comfortable'' with current oil prices and Nigeria will seek a cut at the meeting in Abuja. Officials from Venezuela and Iran said within the past two weeks that the group should reduce supply because of rising inventories.

The biggest oil exporter, Saudi Arabia, said on Dec. 1 that stockpiles are too high.

``Unless we see a very, very defined cut of another 500,000 barrels a day at least, the market is going to sell off very, very strongly,'' said Dominick Chirichella, an analyst at Energy Management Inc. in New York.

OPEC convenes this week in Abuja, Nigeria, its first conference in Africa's largest oil-producing nation since 1972.

http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20602099&sid=a0He2aOOua58&refer=energy

Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: jrenz
Dave's "Drive for Five"

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They are planning on $5 gallon after Christmas.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Here's your source, they are calling it "The Drive For Five"
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wait till after the Election and Christmas shopping season....the Ziiiing
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Do you have proof they did not start the campaign "Drive for Five"???
------
Dave's Runaway gas prices:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

10/31Jumped 10 cents here overnight.

11/07$2.14 to $2.34 jump here today.

11/14 Climbing back towards $2.50 here steadily everyday.
11/14 Up nearly 30 cents here since the Election, climbing towards $2.50 steadily everyday. 2 or 4 cent increase everyday.

11/18 Up 9 cents today to $2.29

11/20 and gas prices went up another 10 cents today.

12/07 Back up to $2.30 a gallon her and climbing everyday.

Bump, just in case Dave forgot about this. Are you still in hiding Dave?
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

12-11-2006 Oil dips to $62 as crude inventories are at the highest level for this time of year since 1993

Oil prices eased below $62 on Monday, extending last week's losses, as concern over brimming global fuel inventories offset a likely second supply cut by OPEC and news of deepening Saudi export curbs.

Saudi Arabia, whose powerful minister Ali al-Naimi has also cited oversupply, appeared to send the strongest signals yet that a second cut was in the offing by telling major Asian refiners that it will reduce their supplies next month.

State oil firm Saudi Aramco has told Japanese, South Korean and Taiwanese refiners that it will cut January crude supplies to 8 to 9 percent below their contracted annual volumes, deeper than the 4 to 5 percent curbs it imposed in December.

12-11-2006 Gas Prices Up For Fifth Straight Week

Gasoline prices in Massachusetts rose an average of one cent last week, making it the fifth consecutive week of increases, according to AAA Southern New England.

In the latest survey of local gas stations, the average price for a gallon of regular unleaded now stands at $2.26 per gallon.

Gas prices have now gone up 14 cents in the last five weeks.

A year ago at this time the average price was $2.13.

The range in prices for regular unleaded in this week's survey is 20 cents, from a low of $2.19 to a high of $2.39.

12-11-2006 Gas Prices Start To Climb Again

OPEC is giving US motorists an expensive gift this holiday: Higher gas prices.

The cost of regular unleaded gas has climbed about six cents since last week alone.

The holiday lights may be twinkling, but so are the lights at the pump at an Exxon station in north Baltimore. It's not the cost of filling their Christmas stockings, but their tanks that drivers are talking about.

"It's taking more. It's taking more to fill my tank and all up. It's crazy," said Lisa Zelenka.

Craziness that amounts to a statewide average of $2.29 per gallon of regular unleaded. The national average is just one penny higher, way up from the summer travel season.

"Late August, if you will, through most of October, we saw about a 96 cent decline in gas prices. Probably gave many of us a little bit of hope that we could expect to see lower and lower gas prices," said Ragina Averella, AAA Mid-Atlantic.

But with a 14 cent increase in the past month, hope is fading as end of year prices come better into view.

Good thing Santa's not using unleaded to fly this Christmas.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?

What part of show me where gas stations are out of gas do you not understand?

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,889
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
12-9-2006 Rebound in gas prices raises suspicion of politics - AAA mystified by post-election boost

The record price and seven-month-long drop, followed by a late-year increase, has some industry watchers confused and fuels the angst of conspiracy theorists who believe gas producers manipulate the market.

The post-election price uptick "is surprising because there doesn't appear to be anything going on fundamentally to back that up," said Michael Geeser, a AAA of Northern California spokesman.

The 10-cent-a-gallon, post-election boost, bringing the statewide average price of regular to $2.50 a gallon, "seems to deny market fundamentals," Geeser said.

Gas producers do have control over the refinery margin - the wholesale price of gas minus the market price for crude oil. This gives them the best influence at the pump.

In early May, when pump prices were peaking, the refinery margin, which includes both the cost and profit of refining gas, was $1.06 a barrel of gasoline, according to the state Energy Commission.

On Nov. 6, the day before the election, the margin was 46 cents a barrel, down 57 percent from May.

The commission does not know how much of the refinery margin is costs and how much is profit, Schlichting said
 

Banzai042

Senior member
Jul 25, 2005
489
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674


The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?

What part of show me where gas stations are out of gas do you not understand?

When talking supply and demand for gas you get the following: overall supply = gas at gas stations + available production.

Refineries shut down = less gas = lower overall supply with the same amount of demand

Are gas stations not allowed to restock on gas until they are completely out? Or is it that the supply and demand situation is such that if we see even the hiccup in supply gas stations everywhere will instantly have no gas whatsoever?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674


Originally posted by: JD50
Originally posted by: jrenz
Dave's "Drive for Five"

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
They are planning on $5 gallon after Christmas.
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Here's your source, they are calling it "The Drive For Five"
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Wait till after the Election and Christmas shopping season....the Ziiiing
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Do you have proof they did not start the campaign "Drive for Five"???
------
Dave's Runaway gas prices:
Originally posted by: dmcowen674

10/31Jumped 10 cents here overnight.

11/07$2.14 to $2.34 jump here today.

11/14 Climbing back towards $2.50 here steadily everyday.
11/14 Up nearly 30 cents here since the Election, climbing towards $2.50 steadily everyday. 2 or 4 cent increase everyday.

11/18 Up 9 cents today to $2.29

11/20 and gas prices went up another 10 cents today.

12/07 Back up to $2.30 a gallon her and climbing everyday.

Bump, just in case Dave forgot about this. Are you still in hiding Dave?
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Dave, are you that.....oh, nevermind, I don't want to get banned. Dave, your own postings show a $.04 drop in gas prices from Nvoember 7th to December 7th.

 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
12-9-2006 Rebound in gas prices raises suspicion of politics - AAA mystified by post-election boost

The record price and seven-month-long drop, followed by a late-year increase, has some industry watchers confused and fuels the angst of conspiracy theorists who believe gas producers manipulate the market.

The post-election price uptick "is surprising because there doesn't appear to be anything going on fundamentally to back that up," said Michael Geeser, a AAA of Northern California spokesman.

The 10-cent-a-gallon, post-election boost, bringing the statewide average price of regular to $2.50 a gallon, "seems to deny market fundamentals," Geeser said.

Gas producers do have control over the refinery margin - the wholesale price of gas minus the market price for crude oil. This gives them the best influence at the pump.

In early May, when pump prices were peaking, the refinery margin, which includes both the cost and profit of refining gas, was $1.06 a barrel of gasoline, according to the state Energy Commission.

On Nov. 6, the day before the election, the margin was 46 cents a barrel, down 57 percent from May.

The commission does not know how much of the refinery margin is costs and how much is profit, Schlichting said

Once again Dave you not only cherry pick your stories, and you not only FAIL to post the entire story, but you ONCE AGAIN try to mislead people. The article you posted has to do with California, and talks about a state prop that *may* have contributed to a small rise at the pumps.

How long can you get away with this? Why the fvck arent you banned? You continually do this ****** and every time you get called out and apperantly mods dont care how much you twist, lie, and mislead. I for one am sick of it. Very rarely do I say this, but I sincerely think this board would be a better place without you.
 

crownjules

Diamond Member
Jul 7, 2005
4,858
0
76
Can we just keep this contained to the other Gas thread? We don't need an additional thread about the same topic.
 

blackangst1

Lifer
Feb 23, 2005
22,902
2,359
126
Originally posted by: crownjules
Can we just keep this contained to the other Gas thread? We don't need an additional thread about the same topic.

Why not? Dave can do whatever he wants with threads including changing aticle titles, changing subjects midstream, and mislead?
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
What part of show me where gas stations are out of gas do you not understand?

Christ almighty Dave.

When supply goes down, and demand goes up, prices rise until an equilibrium is reached in which demand is on par with supply, which is why we don't run out of gas.

Honestly, are you trying extra hard to be brain dead today?
 

CPA

Elite Member
Nov 19, 2001
30,322
4
0
Originally posted by: crownjules
Can we just keep this contained to the other Gas thread? We don't need an additional thread about the same topic.

Dave's got two threads on the same topic.

This is a very different topic. It's about the death of the most irreverant predictions ever made on this board.
 

QuantumPion

Diamond Member
Jun 27, 2005
6,010
1
76
ECONOMICS OF PRICES by Walter E. Williams

Here's what one reader wrote: "Williams, I can understand how the destruction of Hurricane Katrina and Middle East political uncertainty can jack up gasoline prices. But it's price-gouging for the oil companies to raise the price of all the gasoline already bought and stored before the crisis." Several other readers made similar allegations. Such allegations reflect a misunderstanding of how prices are determined.

Let's start off with an example. Say you owned a small 10-pound inventory of coffee that you purchased for $3 a pound. Each week you'd sell me a pound for $3.25. Suppose a freeze in Brazil destroyed half of its coffee crop, causing the world price of coffee to immediately rise to $5 a pound. You still have coffee that you purchased before the jump in prices. When I stop by to buy another pound of coffee from you, how much will you charge me? I'm betting that you're going to charge me at least $5 a pound. Why? Because that's today's cost to replace your inventory.

Historical costs do not determine prices; what economists call opportunity costs do. Of course, you'd have every right not to be a "price-gouger" and continue to charge me $3.25 a pound. I'd buy your entire inventory and sell it at today's price of $5 a pound and make a killing.

If you were really enthusiastic about not being a "price-gouger," I'd have another proposition. You might own a house that you purchased for $55,000 in 1960 that you put on the market for a half-million dollars. I'd simply accuse you of price-gouging and demand that you sell me the house for what you paid for it, maybe adding on a bit for inflation since 1960. I'm betting you'd say, "Williams, if I sold you my house for what I paid for it in 1960, how will I be able to pay today's prices for a house to live in?"

If there's any conspiracy involved in today's high gasoline prices, it's a conspiracy of cowardice and stupidity by the U.S. Congress. Opening a tiny portion of the coastal plain of the Arctic National Wildlife Refuge in Alaska to oil and gas production, according to the U.S. Geological Survey's mean estimate, would increase our proven domestic oil reserves by approximately 50 percent. The Pacific, Atlantic and eastern Gulf of Mexico offshore areas have enormous reserves of oil and natural gas, but like the Alaska reserves, they have been put off limits by Congress. Plus, the U.S. Office of Naval Petroleum and Oil Shale Reserves estimates the world supply of oil shale at 1.6 trillion barrels, of which 1.2 trillion barrels are in the United States.

Because of costly regulations and political restrictions, U.S. nuclear energy production is a fraction of what it might be. Nuclear power creates 75 percent of France's electricity, nearly 50 percent of Sweden's and only 20 percent of ours. Nuclear energy is very safe. That's something to keep in mind when we hear of tragic deaths of coal miners. There would be fewer mining deaths if we used less coal and more nuclear power for electricity generation.

You say, "What about the effect on prices of all those oil company profits and CEO pay and retirement benefits?" If Congress mandated that CEOs work for zero pay, gasoline prices would fall by less than a penny. If Congress mandated that oil companies earn zero profit, gasoline prices might fall by 10 cents; of course, we'd have to worry about gasoline availability next year.

CEOs tend to be cowards when dealing with politicians and environmental extremists, but I have a recommendation that requires only a modicum of courage. At each gasoline station they should put up photos, perhaps videos, of penguins, caribou, polar bears and other critters frolicking along Alaska's coastal plain. Then have a voice-over or caption reading:
Don't be selfish. Your paying $3, $4 and $5 a gallon for gas keeps these critters happy and their play space clear of oil rigs.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?

Maybe he doesn't get how mere supply and demand can cause the price to jump over 50% in one year. Can you explain what caused the jump a year or two ago from $2 a gallon to over $3 a gallon? Since supply and demand are the only factors, please point out the extreme shortage/demand increase that occured to cause a 50% increase in prices.
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Let's start off with an example. Say you owned a small 10-pound inventory of coffee that you purchased for $3 a pound. Each week you'd sell me a pound for $3.25. Suppose a freeze in Brazil destroyed half of its coffee crop, causing the world price of coffee to immediately rise to $5 a pound. You still have coffee that you purchased before the jump in prices. When I stop by to buy another pound of coffee from you, how much will you charge me? I'm betting that you're going to charge me at least $5 a pound. Why? Because that's today's cost to replace your inventory.

Historical costs do not determine prices; what economists call opportunity costs do. Of course, you'd have every right not to be a "price-gouger" and continue to charge me $3.25 a pound. I'd buy your entire inventory and sell it at today's price of $5 a pound and make a killing.

Williams skips the issue on what actually is causing oil to become vastly more expensive to produce.
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?

Maybe he doesn't get how mere supply and demand can cause the price to jump over 50% in one year. Can you explain what caused the jump a year or two ago from $2 a gallon to over $3 a gallon? Since supply and demand are the only factors, please point out the extreme shortage/demand increase that occured to cause a 50% increase in prices.

All of the factors involved have been talked about ad nauseum in both of his other gas/oil threads. The supply and demand baseline argument is used rather than talking about each individual contributing factor every time Dave makes an idiotic post, because it's hard to get anything else through to him (even S&D is above his head apparently).
 

jrenz

Banned
Jan 11, 2006
1,788
0
0
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Let's start off with an example. Say you owned a small 10-pound inventory of coffee that you purchased for $3 a pound. Each week you'd sell me a pound for $3.25. Suppose a freeze in Brazil destroyed half of its coffee crop, causing the world price of coffee to immediately rise to $5 a pound. You still have coffee that you purchased before the jump in prices. When I stop by to buy another pound of coffee from you, how much will you charge me? I'm betting that you're going to charge me at least $5 a pound. Why? Because that's today's cost to replace your inventory.

Historical costs do not determine prices; what economists call opportunity costs do. Of course, you'd have every right not to be a "price-gouger" and continue to charge me $3.25 a pound. I'd buy your entire inventory and sell it at today's price of $5 a pound and make a killing.

Williams skips the issue on what actually is causing oil to become vastly more expensive to produce.

Armed conflict, political uncertainty, OPEC, etc.
 

SSSnail

Lifer
Nov 29, 2006
17,458
82
86
Yesterday filled up for $2.35/gal. Today AM @ $2.40/gal.

Edit: I keep seeing these "supply and demand" arguments just keep popping up. You're telling me that there are twice the amount of cars out there on the road as there were a few years ago?

Based on my limited understanding of the subject, and a novice in the oil prodution field as some of the experts around here, I failed to grasp that concept. The supply and demand cycle is the same every year, that much I understand. What I don't understand is why I'm paying double the price versus that of a few years ago?
 

blackllotus

Golden Member
May 30, 2005
1,875
0
0
Originally posted by: jrenz
Originally posted by: blackllotus
Originally posted by: QuantumPion
Let's start off with an example. Say you owned a small 10-pound inventory of coffee that you purchased for $3 a pound. Each week you'd sell me a pound for $3.25. Suppose a freeze in Brazil destroyed half of its coffee crop, causing the world price of coffee to immediately rise to $5 a pound. You still have coffee that you purchased before the jump in prices. When I stop by to buy another pound of coffee from you, how much will you charge me? I'm betting that you're going to charge me at least $5 a pound. Why? Because that's today's cost to replace your inventory.

Historical costs do not determine prices; what economists call opportunity costs do. Of course, you'd have every right not to be a "price-gouger" and continue to charge me $3.25 a pound. I'd buy your entire inventory and sell it at today's price of $5 a pound and make a killing.

Williams skips the issue on what actually is causing oil to become vastly more expensive to produce.

Armed conflict, political uncertainty, OPEC, etc.

But how much of that is legit? OPEC can artificially limit the supply. They've done it in the past, an extreme example being the 70's oil crisis, and it makes them money (well, it actually makes the oil companies money and I doubt OPEC would go out of the way to help oil companies if it gave them no personal gain).
 

Ika

Lifer
Mar 22, 2006
14,264
3
81
So now we have to worry about Global Warming instead of rising oil prices. Yay!

Just kidding. I don't believe in global warming.
 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: blackangst1
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: crownjules
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Please explain why gas prices continue to rise when Oil inventories are through the roof?

Easy. You posted it last week. Two refineries shut down, including the largest in the US. All the oil in the world won't help you if you can't refine it into a useable product (in this case gasoline).

The old Refinery excuse.

Not working bud, show me gas stations out of gas.

Dave. What part of supply and demand do you not understand? The supply part?

What part of show me where gas stations are out of gas do you not understand?

OMG You cant be serious? How about the gas stations are low of gas, so they jack up the prices, so people buy less, so they dont run out. A gas station will never run out, because they'd charge an arm and leg for last few gallons.
 

bobdelt

Senior member
May 26, 2006
918
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Originally posted by: SSSnail
Yesterday filled up for $2.35/gal. Today AM @ $2.40/gal.

Edit: I keep seeing these "supply and demand" arguments just keep popping up. You're telling me that there are twice the amount of cars out there on the road as there were a few years ago?

Based on my limited understanding of the subject, and a novice in the oil prodution field as some of the experts around here, I failed to grasp that concept. The supply and demand cycle is the same every year, that much I understand. What I don't understand is why I'm paying double the price versus that of a few years ago?

Because there has been a tremendous increase in demand for gasoline worldwide from the emerging markets, i.e. china.

Also, the dollar is less valuable than it was a few years ago... less value= less oil = higher price for the same quantity of gasoline.

Gas companies are spending more on alternative energy sources, increased R&D expenses, OPEC cut production, violence around the world, pipelines bursting... there are tons of reasons why gas would increase.
 
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