Oil Thread 8-30-07:Oil climbing towards $80 again. Did they run out of gas for summer? Nope

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

First, one shouldn't be so quick to draw lines between politics and economics. They are tightly linked to eachother. A market economy cannot exist in a communist state (at least legitimately), and you're never going to be waiting in line for free toilet paper in a capitalist state.

Second, your trading tactics gave you a buffer against high oil prices. When they went up, your investment went up. When they went down, your pump prices went down. The very nature of this as a buffer is why I call it a discount on oil. While the link is weak, it's there.

Third, you knew to invest that money in oil. Others didn't. So, while you were enjoying the rewards of your knowledge of the economic system, others with different things to worry about decided to stay out. Your knowledge turned into economic buying power. While I'm not saying this is intrinsically bad, I don't believe all people should be required to have this knowledge to stay viable in society, and I don't believe this knowledge should be used at the significant expense of others. I'm not an economist, an accountant, or anything else related to the field of business. I am studying engineering, and I wish to be an engineer. If I work 40 hours a week with my college-earned skillset, I don't believe lucky people at home tweaking their portfolio online have done as much of a service for humanity to deserve the superior pay. Again, this last part is just opinion.

Awesome, welcome to P&N

Rich Republicans version of the American dream is everyone like them is a rich investor with illegal Mexicans serving all their domestic services all others fvk off and die.

I hope you arent implying I am either rich, or Republican, because I am neither. I'm a middle class stiff who is trying to save for retirement just like everyone else. Maybe the difference for me is that I actually READ info about what Im investing in. It's not hard. You can read Money magazine while on the toilet and learn enough to make wise investments. And to repeat what I said earlier, you dont have to be rich. Most people can afford $50/month. The only excuse for not doing so is either ignorance or stupidity.

I usually read Racecar Engineering while I'm on the toilet. I spend every free moment either learning about cars or, just for fun, attempting to disprove famous mathematicians. I'm determined to make a hell of a mark on the world, and it's not going to be through some stroke of luck playing the horses in the Wall Street Journal. I'm not going to make money by investing in others. I'm going to make money by investing in myself. What's so wrong with that? Henry Ford didn't make his money by throwing money at Toyota. Charles Walgreen III didn't make his money by throwing some money at competing pharmacies. Thomas Edison didn't make his money by investing in Alexander Bell. Why should I be required to have a diverse portfolio just to keep from getting raped by oil tyrants? Investment should be optional for survival. I'm a student, and I have loans that should be paid before I start investing money at a lower rate than my loan interest.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: blackangst1

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

First, one shouldn't be so quick to draw lines between politics and economics. They are tightly linked to eachother. A market economy cannot exist in a communist state (at least legitimately), and you're never going to be waiting in line for free toilet paper in a capitalist state.

Second, your trading tactics gave you a buffer against high oil prices. When they went up, your investment went up. When they went down, your pump prices went down. The very nature of this as a buffer is why I call it a discount on oil. While the link is weak, it's there.

Third, you knew to invest that money in oil. Others didn't. So, while you were enjoying the rewards of your knowledge of the economic system, others with different things to worry about decided to stay out. Your knowledge turned into economic buying power. While I'm not saying this is intrinsically bad, I don't believe all people should be required to have this knowledge to stay viable in society, and I don't believe this knowledge should be used at the significant expense of others. I'm not an economist, an accountant, or anything else related to the field of business. I am studying engineering, and I wish to be an engineer. If I work 40 hours a week with my college-earned skillset, I don't believe lucky people at home tweaking their portfolio online have done as much of a service for humanity to deserve the superior pay. Again, this last part is just opinion.

Awesome, welcome to P&N

Rich Republicans version of the American dream is everyone like them is a rich investor with illegal Mexicans serving all their domestic services all others fvk off and die.

I hope you arent implying I am either rich, or Republican, because I am neither. I'm a middle class stiff who is trying to save for retirement just like everyone else. Maybe the difference for me is that I actually READ info about what Im investing in. It's not hard. You can read Money magazine while on the toilet and learn enough to make wise investments. And to repeat what I said earlier, you dont have to be rich. Most people can afford $50/month. The only excuse for not doing so is either ignorance or stupidity.

You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

Hell, if I had an extra $50 a month, I might have that damn car company started already. I'm pretty resourceful with small amounts of cash because I have so damn little of it. After I got laid off from my research job I resorted to detailing cars as a franchise to my friend's business. It's hard work, and I haven't gotten enough clients to make what I was making, but the experience running a business will help me later, and the hope that I'll get a lot of business through hard work is what the American dream is all about.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Do you think you'd be able to save $50 a month working a minimum wage job? I hardly think so. Living expenses are far too great.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Which ones would you cut?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Do you think you'd be able to save $50 a month working a minimum wage job? I hardly think so. Living expenses are far too great.

With all the support the government and states give towards getting an education...and with companies willing to promote responsible hard workers, I would never make minimum wage.

It is very difficult to be a hard working and responsible person and make minimum wage. Usually it is the poor choices people make that puts them in the situations they are in. It's not a lottery, it's straight up individual motivation.

Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Which ones would you cut?

Gym, History?

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

 

[blackangst1]

Wow. Just wow. It boggles me how little about money most people know. All this talk about getting raped by oil tyrants? You mean the ones that paid me over 20% interest average over the last 3 years? They arent raping me...oh how about this talk of risk...ever heard of mutual funds? Your money is riskier sitting in a bank savings account. Man you guys need some econ 101 in a bad way...sounds like a case of the have nots whining about something they can actually DO something about again...

 

[blackangst1]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

Who here suggested investing in a risky market? Maybe youre confusing this with another thread?

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

Make coffee at home?
Drive to a bus depot or ask around work?

Socialists are completely impractical...no wonder they rely on gov't subsidies and are nagging to give more money to those who cannot fend for themselves.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

Make coffee at home?
Drive to a bus depot or ask around work?

Socialists are completely impractical...no wonder they rely on gov't subsidies and are nagging to give more money to those who cannot fend for themselves.

I'm not a socialist. I guess I'd say I'm a moderate. I really don't have much of a political affiliation because I think every politician is mentally handicapped. The system is screwed up and I don't know how to fix it because I'm not an expert. I just know what I believe. I'm willing to admit my shortcomings when it comes to forming opinions on matters, which is something I wish many more would do, but it also seems to me that too many people trust politicians because they think that it must take brains to get into power. The system is filled with two kinds of fool.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

Make coffee at home?
Drive to a bus depot or ask around work?

Socialists are completely impractical...no wonder they rely on gov't subsidies and are nagging to give more money to those who cannot fend for themselves.

I just told you I detail cars. I have to drive to each individual job site. Public transit sucks here. I'm making less than minimum wage right now, but I have a dream that fuels me. It's only been a few weeks. Things will get better. No success story is made over night.

I don't think I've ever been in the habit of buying coffee. Making it is a lot cheaper. You can't "save" money when you're not making or spending it in the first place.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Which ones would you cut?

Gym, History?

Cutting gym class is going to instill even more laziness in the American public, and cutting history is going to give us a bunch of generations that repeat the mistakes of history. (Iraq=Vietnam, but that's just my opinion)

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

Which ones would you cut?

Gym, History?

Cutting gym class is going to instill even more laziness in the American public, and cutting history is going to give us a bunch of generations that repeat the mistakes of history. (Iraq=Vietnam, but that's just my opinion)

With gym kids are getting fat, with history we are going to Iraq. Those subjects are doing us no good (imo)...basic finance and budgeting would be much more worth while.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: Stunt
Don't buy a coffee in the morning, carpool to work...two ways to save at least $50 a month.

Start off the day not firing on all cylinders to invest on risky market?

Car Pool with who???

Make coffee at home?
Drive to a bus depot or ask around work?

Socialists are completely impractical...no wonder they rely on gov't subsidies and are nagging to give more money to those who cannot fend for themselves.

I'm not a socialist. I guess I'd say I'm a moderate. I really don't have much of a political affiliation because I think every politician is mentally handicapped. The system is screwed up and I don't know how to fix it because I'm not an expert. I just know what I believe. I'm willing to admit my shortcomings when it comes to forming opinions on matters, which is something I wish many more would do, but it also seems to me that too many people trust politicians because they think that it must take brains to get into power. The system is filled with two kinds of fool.

I'm a moderate as well...everyone can claim they are a moderate as there is always someone more wacky than you...and in your own eyes, your opinion always makes the most sense.

I am a Pragmatic...not politically affiliated in the least; I look at things on an issue by issue basis. It just so happens I tend to believe choices are the key to success and failure. Politicians have far too much power in the states and you guys are under represented, compounding the problem. I can understand your views.

 

[nergee]

..basic finance and budgeting is something a parent could and should teach.......

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: nergee
..basic finance and budgeting is something a parent could and should teach.......

Not when parents themselves do not understand...

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: nergee
..basic finance and budgeting is something a parent could and should teach.......

Not when parents themselves do not understand...

How did you learn? Why can't everyone do what you did? That is, after all, the conservative ideal: I made it, so why can't you?

 

[HamSupLo]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

I think the story points out the irony in this whole discussion in that the manipulation of energy prices is eating into the average american's ability to set aside $50 that hasn't been eroded by rising gas, housing, or healthcare costs. before you know it, you'll have $40, then $20, then $10 left to invest in your own retirement.

 

[Stunt]

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: nergee
..basic finance and budgeting is something a parent could and should teach.......

Not when parents themselves do not understand...

How did you learn? Why can't everyone do what you did? That is, after all, the conservative ideal: I made it, so why can't you?

That's not a conservative ideal.

I learned through my family because I was fortunate enough to have parents with good values. I wish all people had the similar values and passed it on...but that's not the case. Parents have made bad choices to get where they are now, their children should not have to suffer for their parent's mistakes.

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: HamSupLo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

I think the story points out the irony in this whole discussion in that the manipulation of energy prices is eating into the average american's ability to set aside $50 that hasn't been eroded by rising gas, housing, or healthcare costs. before you know it, you'll have $40, then $20, then $10 left to invest in your own retirement.

Welcome to P&N

That's just it.

The guys commenting on this $50 are not impacted by the rising prices at all. They have disposable income at the end of the month. They have no idea what it is to have to survive check to check not even breaking even but in the hole.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: kevinthenerd

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: nergee
..basic finance and budgeting is something a parent could and should teach.......

Not when parents themselves do not understand...

How did you learn? Why can't everyone do what you did? That is, after all, the conservative ideal: I made it, so why can't you?

That's not a conservative ideal.

I learned through my family because I was fortunate enough to have parents with good values. I wish all people had the similar values and passed it on...but that's not the case. Parents have made bad choices to get where they are now, their children should not have to suffer for their parent's mistakes.

I believe money management would be a good topic to teach in schools, but I don't think it should be at the expense of other classes. Why don't we just lengthen the school day so children can get free education in things like music and art (and finance) that will benefit them in ways that "practical" people can't see? It would be nice to offer a taste of classes related to career exploration, too, to encourage more of them to go to college to study what they really want (and not just the general education everyone has to get in highschool). Had I known college was going to be so much more enjoyable than highschool (because I was able to choose my major) I would have looked forward to it much more.

 

[kevinthenerd]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: HamSupLo

Originally posted by: Stunt

Originally posted by: dmcowen674
You have $50 a month disposable income to put into risky market, then yes, you are rich and Republican ideology of what believe America is all about now.

$50 disposable income is easy...consumers just have no clue how to budget and cannot manage their money for the life of them.

I am a firm believer of financial planning in schools instead of other useless subjects.

I think the story points out the irony in this whole discussion in that the manipulation of energy prices is eating into the average american's ability to set aside $50 that hasn't been eroded by rising gas, housing, or healthcare costs. before you know it, you'll have $40, then $20, then $10 left to invest in your own retirement.

Welcome to P&N

That's just it.

The guys commenting on this $50 are not impacted by the rising prices at all. They have disposable income at the end of the month. They have no idea what it is to have to survive check to check not even breaking even but in the hole.

Yup. I'll bet they've never been in a situtation where a check overdraft was unavoidable. They can't even fathom the concept of choosing between a $34 overdraft fee to get some groceries (ramen, mac&cheese) or getting kicked to the street when the rent isn't paid. They get into this mindset that all poor people deserve to be poor and that they're somehow supposed to just know the means of getting out of it... as if their only reason for being poor is laziness.

 

[Vic]

I had a small amount of disposable income even when I was struggling through school and making minimum wage (or close to). It ain't what you make, it's what you spend. It's not about laziness, it's about not being disciplined.

Away from the trolls and back on topic:

Big drop puts oil near $65

LONDON (Reuters) -- Oil dropped $1 Monday as OPEC looked set to keep pumping at high rates to ensure world consumers were well-supplied despite a 20 percent fall in prices since mid-July.

The market was also pressured by Iran's offer to halt temporarily its atomic work, slowing economic growth, robust fuel stocks and a sluggish hurricane season.

"U.S. supply is comfortable and demand is about to enter a comparative lull. The Iran premium is dwindling too as the negotiations between Iran and the U.N. drag on," said Tobin Gorey of the Commonwealth Bank of Australia.

U.S. light crude for October delivery fell 95 cents to $65.30 a barrel in early electronic trade, falling more than a dollar earlier in the session to a fresh five-month low of $65.22. The front month contract lost more than 4 percent last week.

London Brent crude fell 88 cents to $64.45.

The Organization of the Petroleum Exporting Countries (OPEC) met Monday in Vienna, and is widely expected to keep current production limits unchanged at 28 million barrels per day.

For more than a year OPEC has been pumping at or near its fastest rate for 25 years. But forecasts that demand for OPEC oil will decline in 2007 are beginning to worry some in the group that pumps a third of the world's oil.

But Saudi Oil Minister Ali Al-Naimi, OPEC's most influential voice, said oil demand would remain healthy next year.

"Market fundamentals are very sound," he told reporters. "We are beginning to see a slight decrease in economic growth, very slight ... It is nothing alarming."

Some analysts predicted that prices have peaked.

"Although risks remain, we now think that the $80 peak we had called is indeed the peak and that the ebb of crude oil and refined products prices has started," said Morgan Stanley in a research note.

Bearish sentiment was exacerbated on cautious optimism over Iran's nuclear dispute with the West.

Iran's chief nuclear negotiator Ali Larijani offered a two-month suspension of Tehran's nuclear enrichment program in weekend talks with EU foreign policy chief Javier Solana, an EU diplomat said on Sunday.

But it was unclear if Iran would meet the Western demand that it suspend enrichment before the start of any talks on trade incentives aimed at ending the nuclear stand-off. An Iranian official denied Tehran had offered any freeze on enrichment.

"The market seems to be reacting to the cautiously positive outcome of Iran's meeting with the EU," said Mike Wittner of Calyon Bank.

"I don't think the OPEC meeting holds a whole lot of significance for the market today. It's really a bit of a footnote, as a rollover seems to be a done deal."

As I posted here a couple of months ago, the energy boom is busting. The uber-rich blackangst1, with his unpardonable $100 in disposable income per month, should sell his mutual funds.