Oil thread 9-7-06:Former BP head of Pipeline invokes 5th

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Sorry?

Sorry for being incompetent while making billions on top of billions in record profits while running such shoddy operations?

They are not sorry, it is pure profit allowed to happen by Bush & Co.

Enjoy even more raping America.

8-6-2006BP forced to shut off Alaska Oil Production due to corrosion, U.S. loses 8% of it's supply, BP says it is sorry]

ANCHORAGE, Alaska - Half the oil production on Alaska's North Slope was being shut down Sunday after BP Exploration Alaska, Inc. discovered severe corrosion and a small spill from a Prudhoe Bay oil transit line.

Once the field is shut down, in a process expected to take day, BP said oil production will be reduced by 400,000 barrels a day. That's close to 8 percent of U.S. oil production as of May 2006, according to data from the U.S. Energy Information Administration.

"We regret that it is necessary to take this action and we apologize to the nation and the State of Alaska for the adverse impacts it will cause," BP America Chairman and President Bob Malone said in a statement.

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Bottom line below is that time and time again shows that Supply & Demand has absolutely nothing to do with Oil & Gas prices.

Those that still stick to their guns and claim that is the case are FOS plain and simple.

Also the fact they must be in the circle of Oil Barons and directly profit from the price gouging.

If we do run out of Oil and still dependent on Oil we have no one to blame but ourselves anyway.

There is no reasonable explanation for still being so hooked on the black crap.

7-10-2006 Australians say that World is running out of Oil

Peak Oil

Australian Broadcasting Corporation Web Resouces on the Oil issue

Every Oil Reserve worldwide is in decline

=================================================
7-5-2006 Oil prices climb to record above $75

5-20-2006 Oil at $100? It's No Longer a Pipe Dream

Last May, Goldman Sachs raised eyebrows on Wall Street by releasing a report warning that crude oil could see a "super spike," with prices reaching as high as $105 per barrel.

And now? Well, the price of the front-month crude contract on the New York Mercantile Exchange is averaging above $65 per barrel for the year to date, after hitting an all-time high on Apr. 21 of $75.35. While crude prices have pulled back somewhat since then, it seems the Goldman warning may not be so far from reality after all.

Earlier projections assumed that a serious supply disruption would be necessary to move prices to their current lofty levels. And yet the market price has reached nearly $75 through a combination of factors that have had little effect on overall world supply

In short, the market has reached nearly $75 per barrel without a disastrous supply event.

The fact that the actual physical supply of oil doesn't seem to matter much in the current price equation is reflected in the loss of OPEC's ability to moderate price behavior.

Futures reflect the price of oil decided by demand for a primarily financial contract. There's nothing fundamental to the market in terms of costs of production or return on capital that decides whether the price of oil settles one day at $70, $80, or indeed $100 per barrel. It depends on the amount of money with which market players are willing to back long and short positions.

Given no shortage of crude oil in storage, the only explanation for the current spike is that the physical market's leverage on price has been temporarily suspended, or is being overridden by a futures market driven by a huge influx of capital. These investors are keying on future levels of risk to supply, rather than the immediate supply-demand balance.
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being overridden by a futures market driven by a huge influx of capital.

The super rich Republicans and their Oil Baron buddies are playing everyone like a fiddle and the American Sheeple love the sound of their music

===============================================
4-21-2006 Oil now over $75 - more than a quarter of the way to $300

4-19-2006 Oil hits $73.50

4-18-06 Oil passes $71

2-9-2006 Bush proposes drilling off Virginia and Florida coast despite Jeb Bush protests

Energy Companies say it is only way they can meet demand, who in here believes them???

All of the rich boys are a bunch of lying scum.
Shame on the American Sheeple particulary the religious ones for believing in them.
They should stick to believing in Centuries old myths rather than modern day Oil Barons and Rich boys.


10-30-2005 OPEC Urges Oil Companies to Invest Profits to increase their refining capacity and help ease pressure on oil prices

"This is a chance for them to invest," said Adnan Shihab-Eldin, acting secretary-general of the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Several major oil companies reported surging third-quarter profits this week.

"We've been saying this past year that refining has to increase," Shihab-Eldin said on the sidelines of a conference on long-term issues of energy supply being held in the Italian resort town of Rimini. "There needs to be more refining and upgrading."

Asked when global demand for oil could surpass production, Shihab-Eldin said that was a distant prospect.

"I think it's decades away ? at least three or four decades," he said.
==================================================
Meanwhile the Oil Barons continue to say there is NO shortage of OIL.

The so-called "supply and demand" is all phoney, just as phoney as Republicans are.


==========================================
Oh noes

Storm coming so raise prices:

8-24-2005 Crude Oil Prices Leap on Supply Worries From Tropical Storm Katrina

VIENNA, Austria - Crude oil prices rose above $66 a barrel Wednesday amid supply concerns in advance of the release of the latest U.S. petroleum inventories report and an approaching storm that could hurt Gulf of Mexico output.
===========================================

The rich and the wannabe rich and their Gas guzzling SUV's being blamed today.

8-10-2005 Oil price hits unprecedented 65 dollars a barrel

Oil prices hit 65 dollars a barrel for the first time on the back of sky-high demand thanks to gas-guzzling sports utility vehicles that have been doing particularly well in a summer sales price war launched by General Motors and now joined by the other big US car makers.


7-26-2005 Dow Drops 17 on Higher Oil Prices

BP Group PLC, one of the world's largest oil companies, said quarterly profits rose 29 percent on the strength of world oil prices.


Time for a new Poll.

Will a U.S. lawsuit against OPEC cause WWIII?

6-21-2005 http://news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story&u...050621/pl_nm/energy_congress_opec_dc_1

WASHINGTON - The U.S. Senate voted on Tuesday to allow the U.S. government to sue the OPEC oil cartel on antitrust grounds in an outcry against crude oil prices that are fast approaching the $60 a barrel mark.

The measure, added to wide-sweeping energy legislation by a voice vote, would give authority to the Department of Justice or Federal Trade Commission to sue the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries.

Gas and oil prices are too high and it's time that we do something about it," said Republican Sen. Mike DeWine

Republican Sen. Pete Domenici, the Senate's top energy bill negotiator, called the measure "nothing short of incredible," but did not act to block it.

"These are sovereign nations," Domenici said. "For us to decide here on the Senate floor that we're going to establish some new forum and litigation against the OPEC cartel is nothing short of incredible."
======================================

6-17-2005 Oil Prices Top $57 on Supply Concerns

OPEC failed to soothe the market earlier this week when it agreed to raise its daily output quota to 28 million barrels a day because its members had already been unofficially exceeding that level.

Including Iraq, which is not bound by the cartel's quota system, the Organization of Petroleum Exporting Countries is pumping close to 30 million barrels a day, or about 35 percent of global demand.


6-7-2005 The United States' emergency fuel tank ? the Strategic Petroleum Reserve ? is almost full for the first time since its creation about 30 years ago.

Will Market Notice Full Petroleum Reserve?

Whether or not prices ease after the SPR is full, the process's end will temporarily put to rest a debate about whether the Bush administration's policy of filling the reserve to the brim amid record-high oil prices was a good one.

Amounts to less than 0.2 percent of the average worldwide demand of about 84 million barrels a day.

The oil in the SPR now is roughly worth $18 billion.

With U.S. oil imports exceeding 10 million barrels per day, the SPR theoretically holds enough fuel to cover more than two months worth. However, the maximum drawdown capacity of the reserve is 4.3 million barrels a day, according to the government, which amounts to 27 percent of the daily input to refineries in the United States.

6-1-2005 Oil rises $2.50 back over $54

5-18-2005 Traders owned by Govt data showing Inventories up 34 Million Barrels from a year ago yet prices are 20% higher.

Peak Oil and Doomsday Fear scenario by Traders continues

and folks complain I am negative :roll:

5-6-2005 Oil Prices Rise for Third Day in a Row

Oil prices rose for the third day in a row Friday as traders brushed aside rising crude inventories and signs of slowing demand growth and focused instead on fears that producers will have trouble keeping the market adequately supplied longer term.




Bank Of Montreal says Saudi Arabia Reserve is in irreversible decline

They are injecting water, the fields will be dead very soon :thumbsup:

4-12-2005 Bank says Saudi's top field in decline

"The combination of the news that there's no new Saudi Light coming on stream for the next seven years plus the 27% projected decline from existing fields means Hubbert's Peak has arrived in Saudi Arabia"

Coxe uses the phrase 'Hubbert's Peak' to describe the situation. This refers to the seminal geologist M King Hubbert, who predicted the unavoidable decline of oilfields back in the 1950s.

The Bank of Montreal's analyst Don Coxe, working from their Chicago office, is the first mainstream number-cruncher to say that Gharwar's days are fated.

One factor contributing to the scrutiny the Gharwar field faces is the huge amount of water injection used.

Water is pumped into an ageing oilfield in order to maintain high pressure inside.

Coxe goes on to ask why new Saudi fields, not just ageing ones, are also water injected.

China Vs U.S. over Oil will end Civilization

End of Oil Could Fuel 'End of Civilization as We Know It'

The most dire and perhaps speculative forecast calls for global oil production to peak next year -- specifically on Thanksgiving.

The consequences will be grave: huge inflation, global resource wars -- China vs. the United States was emphasized as a possibility -- and the end of civilization as we know it.

U.S. peaked already

The argument stretches back to a 1956 prediction by M. King Hubbert that oil production in the lower 48 U.S. states would peak in the early 1970s.

He was right.


The United States now imports nearly 60 percent of the oil it uses.

Meanwhile, other countries are beginning to clamor for oil at unprecedented rates, and therein lies the recipe for potential disaster.

China uses a comparatively modest 1.5 billion barrels a year (perhaps 2.4 billion this year) according to some estimates. India consumes less. Both countries' economies are becoming increasingly dependent on oil

Yet China's own production has been flat since the 1980s and it now imports 40 percent of what it needs.

'When do we panic?'

"What matters in the short term is, when do we panic?" Nur said. "In my opinion, the point of panic has already taken place."

It's a behind-the-scenes sort of panic. The two largest economies on Earth -- China and the United States -- have already incorporated the finite nature of oil into their national security policies

The war in Iraq, a country second only to politically unstable Saudi Arabia in oil reserves, is another clue, he said.

"Civilization as we know it will come to an end sometime this century, when the fuel runs out," Goodstein said, adding that "I certainly hope my prediction is wrong."

$ Updates

3-1-05 over $53
3-3-05 over $55

4-3-05 Over $58

4-26-05 Still over $55

3-16-2005 Oil Surges to New High, $56.10 a Barrel

1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Certainly goes along the RRR FLL Mandate to pollute as much as humanly possible. :thumbsup:
 

MrYAK

Senior member
Aug 19, 2004
826
0
0
You ppl pay for firewood:Q You guys must be from the city. My dad and I every summer find a few dead trees, cut'em down, chop'em up, pile'em in the shed, not pay a dime to heat our house in the winter. We have 2 stoves in the basement that heats the whole house. Sh1t, come on down to Nebraska and i'll help you cut some trees up for free.

And before yall start in on me saying i'm a tree killer, these trees are already dead.

**EDIT**
Here are some steps to ensure that you reduce the pollution from burning wood.
http://eesc.orst.edu/agcomwebf.../home/dryfirewood.html
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!



How many people actually use oil to heat their homes?
 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Sure it pollutes more but it is renewable. The biggest problem with wood is you have to stact the damn wood. Then move the wood inside and stack it again. Then you have to put it on the fire every few hours.
 

charrison

Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
17,033
1
81
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Sure it pollutes more but it is renewable. The biggest problem with wood is you have to stact the damn wood. Then move the wood inside and stack it again. Then you have to put it on the fire every few hours.



Actually you got to split the wood as well. And with an air tight wood burning stove, you dont have to add wood that often. You still have a good bed of coals in the morning with these stoves.
 

Darkhawk28

Diamond Member
Dec 22, 2000
6,759
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Sure it pollutes more but it is renewable. The biggest problem with wood is you have to stact the damn wood. Then move the wood inside and stack it again. Then you have to put it on the fire every few hours.



Actually you got to split the wood as well. And with an air tight wood burning stove, you dont have to add wood that often. You still have a good bed of coals in the morning with these stoves.

I wish I had a wood burning stove. My apartment's heater sucks the big one.
 

MrYAK

Senior member
Aug 19, 2004
826
0
0
Actually you got to split the wood as well. And with an air tight wood burning stove, you dont have to add wood that often. You still have a good bed of coals in the morning with these stoves.

I can fill up our stove at about 1am before i go to bed, and wake up at about 7 and have some good coals going and the surface temp of the stove is around 100+ F.
 

burnedout

Diamond Member
Oct 12, 1999
6,249
2
0
Saw this story earlier today. Man, my parents own a whole hilltop in KY containing at least 10 cords of fallen timber. Too bad nearly everyone heats with either electricity, gas or coal back there.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.burncorn.com/

CsG
:thumbsup:

Incidentally, from what I've read, at least four new ethanol plants are opening up in Iowa in '05.
 

zephyrprime

Diamond Member
Feb 18, 2001
7,512
2
81
It doesn't make sense to me to burn corn. Why not burn the empty corn cobs? The cobs are useless and I would guess that they burn better than the kernels.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: burnedout
Saw this story earlier today. Man, my parents own a whole hilltop in KY containing at least 10 cords of fallen timber. Too bad nearly everyone heats with either electricity, gas or coal back there.

Originally posted by: CADsortaGUY
http://www.burncorn.com/

CsG
:thumbsup:

Incidentally, from what I've read, at least four new ethanol plants are opening up in Iowa in '05.

Amazing. Just seems there is more and more confirmation everyday that Iowa is rapidly becoming the Mecca of the U.S.

I just may have to move there to reverse this trend.

 

Spencer278

Diamond Member
Oct 11, 2002
3,637
0
0
Originally posted by: zephyrprime
It doesn't make sense to me to burn corn. Why not burn the empty corn cobs? The cobs are useless and I would guess that they burn better than the kernels.

The only reason for ethonal and burning corn is to support red neck farmers.
 

MrYAK

Senior member
Aug 19, 2004
826
0
0
The only reason for ethonal and burning corn is to support red neck farmers.

Lets be a little more ignorant. I'm sure you know all about what goes on there. I bet you think milk comes from the store and its a chemical that man made from magic white water and then picked calcium beans from trees to put into the mix and then added some cream cheese from cream cheese plants so it wasnt so runny. Well, yer wrong it comes from cows.
 

0marTheZealot

Golden Member
Apr 5, 2004
1,692
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Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).
 

Yzzim

Lifer
Feb 13, 2000
11,990
1
76
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).

that's what I've understood too. Haven't looked for anything to back it up, but many people have told me that, and I'm from a farming community.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Sure it pollutes more but it is renewable. The biggest problem with wood is you have to stact the damn wood. Then move the wood inside and stack it again. Then you have to put it on the fire every few hours.

Renewable only goes so far. I've seen some 1800's pictures of the area around some of the cities in the south and north east. There was nothing but stumps and dead limbs on the hills as far as the camera lens reached. Some of the wood burners that are avaliable today are a lot more efficient, but there are a lot more people too. Stcking it is a job. Spliting it is worse. I have some friends in Canada who heat a 4 bedroom house with wood and nothing else. They use two stoves and have a wood spliter that works off the PTO on the tractor. Wood is pretty good for limited use, but to replace oil entirely with it would be less than rosey.

 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
Originally posted by: charrison
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!



How many people actually use oil to heat their homes?

A lot of them outside the northern cities. Some inside the city where it snows a lot. In Canada, everyone where I lived used oil except for a couple of families.

 

CADsortaGUY

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
25,162
1
76
www.ShawCAD.com
Originally posted by: Yzzim
Originally posted by: 0marTheZealot
Ethanol is an energy loser and therefore will always need to be subsidized by an energy winner (re oil).

that's what I've understood too. Haven't looked for anything to back it up, but many people have told me that, and I'm from a farming community.

People run from trying to back it up. You see, the study and/or figures they cite are old I'd like to see something cited from the last decade from the people who continue to claim this.

CsG
 

BeauJangles

Lifer
Aug 26, 2001
13,941
1
0
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: Spencer278
Originally posted by: Condor
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
1-2-2005 Firewood Sales Up As Oil Prices Rise

Seasoned firewood is now selling for roughly $180 to $230 a cord compared to between $140 and $160 a year ago

Ray Colton of Pittsfield, Vt., said his company has sold more than 4,000 cords this season, about 1,000 more than last year: "We're selling as fast as we produce," he said.

A cord is a stack of firewood 4 feet wide, 8 feet long and 4 feet high.

Oil prices are hovering at close to $2 a gallon in Maine, up more than 30 percent from a year ago. At $2.18 a gallon, kerosene is 56 cents more than last year. And propane averages $2.06 a gallon, up 43 cents from a year ago.

Prices are also up out West, including in Colorado, where local hardwood begins at $180 per cord and imported oak costs $300.

"Firewood at $180 a cord is still a deal compared to what it costs to heat your home with oil," he said.

Wood does pollute a lot more!

Sure it pollutes more but it is renewable. The biggest problem with wood is you have to stact the damn wood. Then move the wood inside and stack it again. Then you have to put it on the fire every few hours.

Renewable only goes so far. I've seen some 1800's pictures of the area around some of the cities in the south and north east. There was nothing but stumps and dead limbs on the hills as far as the camera lens reached. Some of the wood burners that are avaliable today are a lot more efficient, but there are a lot more people too. Stcking it is a job. Spliting it is worse. I have some friends in Canada who heat a 4 bedroom house with wood and nothing else. They use two stoves and have a wood spliter that works off the PTO on the tractor. Wood is pretty good for limited use, but to replace oil entirely with it would be less than rosey.


As long as you practice sustainable cutting (not clear cutting), wood can be a great supplement to oil burning, but you're right, it can never replace oil.
 

imported_Condor

Diamond Member
Sep 22, 2004
5,425
0
0
My fear would be that we would practice sustainable cutting sort of like we practice oil conservation. Agreed that wood is a good limited energy source and would augment other initiatives. There are some good technologies on the market these days. We could do much more as a nation and this is not partisan. I haven't seen any leader in the past few years that focused on alternative energy technologies, nor have I seen any leader who really put anything on the board that would really help with consumption.

Moving slightly off topic:

To my mind, one of our biggest wastes of energy is the state of our railroads. I don't have statistics, but I think rail is the most energy efficient way to move goods and people. No leader in my memory has put any effort into making our rail systems what they need to be. When I see anyone ranting about leaders and energy, I look for mention of rail systems and if there are none, I dismiss the topic. The group or individual simply isn't serious. It kind of goes into the "low hanging fruit" buzzword that I got so sick of in the last few years. I think we could make fast and effective gains by working to improve rail systems. One of the unique advantages of rail systems is that, using the weight carrying ability of rails, new technologies could be developed and perfected while in use. Nothing else that I know of offers that. We use over the road trucks to move massive amounts of cargo now. That has to be one of the least efficient ways to move goods great distances. I don't think that is all the fault of our society and our need for instant gratification. I think that, in part, trucks are still used because they provide employment to who knows how many truckers and that makes employment figures look better than they really are. I've observed that across several administrations. Trucks will always be an integral part of any transportation system, but could be used in much more efficient ways. One of the reasons that so much of our industry has been outsourced overseas is the advent of today?s trans-oceanic transportation systems developed in the 1970's. They are pretty efficient and could be adapted to land. They already are to some degree but not enough. Well, so much for my rant.
 
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