Oil thread 9-7-06:Former BP head of Pipeline invokes 5th

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Strk

Lifer
Nov 23, 2003
10,198
4
76
astrosfan90,

The entire reason for this downtime is because of negligence -- it's that simple. How do I know? Aside from the news stories, you have Whoozyerdaddy saying it and he is probably the biggest supporter of Alaskan oil on this board. So far this year BP has had over a quarter of a million barrels oil spill and an explosion that has killed over a dozen employees. It is a negligent company. BP is a company facing criminal charges.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: astrosfan90


Okay, you're right, close their doors, shutter em up and shut down BP's operations.

Oh, wait.

That'd drive prices up, don't do that! Oh noes, my SUV won't be as cheap to fill up and get 2 mpg!1!!!

What do you propose to do? Say you're put in charge right now and can do whatever you want? What's your plan?

Short of creating a time machine to go back in time and catch up on the maintenance, there's not much you can do to retroactively fix the problem besides shutting the line down and fixing it, which BP is doing.

Sincerely,
Shameless BP apologist
(I suppose I am a bit less critical since I was smart enough to invest in shares of the publicly traded company, BP, as well as one of it's competitors; something, incidentally, any of you are free to do as well)


So your answer is to come up with an even more stupid response?

Brilliant!

You should have figured out by now what my solution is - strip BP of their oversight and maintenance work.
There would be no change fro BP - thay didn't even do anything anyway.

The feeder lines are jopintly run by BP and 2 other Petro groups, Exxon Mobil and Connoco Phillips,
which don't have this neglegect Managment Syndrome, and let them take up and rebuild the defective sectors
since they, at least seem to have done their assigned protion correctly for the last 14 years, in spite of BP.
BP is 'Odd-Man Out', excluded from participation and financial gains, and whaever fines are assessed against BP should wipe out
all profit and gains over and above the cost of reconstruction back to where it should have been in the first place.

The feeder line sections are not ALL down, just those which were BP's Prime Objective, and as they are cycled through
and re-established, for God's sake don't let BP touch them again - ever.
Let responsible companies assume those tasks which BP refused to perform to the minimum standards of the industry.

BP should not be able to reap any award from their actions tha allow an upward spike in pricing based on their incompetance.

Moving the control away from BP - even if they do shutter their doors won't devastate the industry,
it simply transfers tha access to marketable resources to more reliable and cost effective companies.

Why are you so insistant on rewarding incompetance and stupidity by BP?
You buy that much stock in a foriegn company?
What kind of problem do you have in 'Buy American'?



 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
1,156
0
0
Well at least I got two intelligent and well-reasoned replies. Thank you. I'll admit that I don't know the full implications of what's happened, but in my world, when someone spills milk, they don't stand around screaming at each other trying to determine who to point the fingers at, they stop what their doing, grab some towels, and mop up the milk. It seems to me that BP is at the very least doing that right now, even if it is late, even if it comes out that the milk was spilled because they were holding it improperly, etc.

As for what I have against "Buy American"? Ask me again when you can post on a fully American-manufactured, developed, and built computer. This is a global economy. What makes you think I'm not equally invested in American companies? I merely listed one of my investments--and for the record, my interest in BP extends back to when they were an American company. American Oil Company, aka Amoco, which was later acquired by a British company, British Petroleum, aka BP.

I also drive a foreign car--made by manufacturer owned by an American company. My desktop computer is from an American company--and made in Taiwan. There's really no such thing as "buy American" anymore. It's not quite that simple.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: astrosfan90
Well at least I got two intelligent and well-reasoned replies. Thank you. I'll admit that I don't know the full implications of what's happened, but in my world, when someone spills milk, they don't stand around screaming at each other trying to determine who to point the fingers at, they stop what their doing, grab some towels, and mop up the milk. It seems to me that BP is at the very least doing that right now, even if it is late, even if it comes out that the milk was spilled because they were holding it improperly, etc.

As for what I have against "Buy American"? Ask me again when you can post on a fully American-manufactured, developed, and built computer. This is a global economy. What makes you think I'm not equally invested in American companies? I merely listed one of my investments--and for the record, my interest in BP extends back to when they were an American company. American Oil Company, aka Amoco, which was later acquired by a British company, British Petroleum, aka BP.

I also drive a foreign car--made by manufacturer owned by an American company. My desktop computer is from an American company--and made in Taiwan. There's really no such thing as "buy American" anymore. It's not quite that simple.



I think the context of your post sums it up in one package.

America Was Sold-Out.

 

astrosfan90

Golden Member
Mar 17, 2005
1,156
0
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk

I think the context of your post sums it up in one package.

America Was Sold-Out.

Erm. If you say so. Personally I'm not one for ISI economics and protectionist policies, particularly not after growing up in a third-world country that did a fantastic job of digging itself deeper into third-world status with exactly the same sort of attitude you have, but I suppose we can agree to disagree on that one.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Looks like the corrosion was caused by bacteria.

Bacteria that is found in the sludge that would have been cleaned out if they had run a pig through the system once or twice a month like everyone else.

That link pissed me off. BP has been saying "gee, we never knew. We thought were OK" while everyone else is saying "Duh... You have to clean the pipes."


On the bright side... They are now saying that they might not have to shut down the entire field. Looks like the western half might be OK... Maybe.

Link
Prudhoe oil may still flow
BP, officials seek ways to keep some Prudhoe oil flowing

By WESLEY LOY
Anchorage Daily News

Published: August 9, 2006
Last Modified: August 9, 2006 at 07:48 AM

BP continued deactivating the mammoth Prudhoe Bay oil field on Tuesday, but signals began to emerge that the shutdown might be shorter and less extensive than first feared.


A BP spokesman, Daren Beaudo, said company managers along with state and federal regulators were studying options to possibly keep the western half of the field running.

By late Tuesday afternoon, workers had shut down the eastern half of the field, where severe corrosion was found inside a major pipeline that sprang a leak over the weekend. That brought Prudhoe's production down to about 200,000 barrels per day, half its normal output.

A top federal pipeline regulator, meanwhile, questioned why BP announced Sunday its intent to shut down the entire field because of corrosion fears. And U.S. Energy Secretary Samuel Bodman suggested the western half of the field might not have to be idled, as pipeline corrosion worries might not be as acute in that section of the field.

U.S. Sen. Lisa Murkowski, R-Alaska, said she had spoken with BP executives and got the same impression -- that an enormous and extended oil shortage might be averted.

"I do believe there is hope that they will not have to fully shut down the entire Prudhoe Bay," Murkowski said.
But...
BP's decision to close the western side was a surprise, as pipelines in that part of the field have undergone extensive corrosion testing since the spring spill, Barrett said. He added that his office didn't order any shutdown.

"We want to understand whether BP has some new information" that prompted the company to say it would shut down the western side, he said. "We want to understand what motivated them."

Actually, BP's Beaudo said, the problem is the company doesn't have enough information, and that's what prompted the move toward a full-field shutdown. That will likely take the rest of the week to complete, he said.

Unlike pipes on Prudhoe's east side, pipes on the west haven't been tested for corrosion with a smart pig, he said. It was a smart pig that, in late July, turned up 16 bad spots in the steel wall of the pipeline that leaked Sunday.

So it kind of sounds like they'll close down the eastern half and watch the west half like a hawk untill the east's repairs are completed. But until they run a pig through the western lines we won't know what they're going to do.

 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: Whoozyerdaddy
Originally posted by: Gigantopithecus
Looks like the corrosion was caused by bacteria.

Bacteria that is found in the sludge that would have been cleaned out if they had run a pig through the system once or twice a month like everyone else.


I'm quite skeptical as well about this report.
Bacterial itself will not 'Eat' through the pipe lining, but the organic waste of a bio-colony mass, if left unattended
can build up to either base (caustic) or acidic levels which can cause local corrosion - after long spans of time.

There IS an organic life-form which CAN eat metals directly, and even glass - mold.
Slime molds can even move from place to place, mirgation to better food sources.
Eventually everything, organic or inorganic, is suceptable to consumption by molds.

But this again, like WhooshierDaddy said - lack of proper maintainence, managment decision.
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
How long will it take to run a smart pig through the western lines to determine if there are any weak failure points?
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Originally posted by: EagleKeeper
How long will it take to run a smart pig through the western lines to determine if there are any weak failure points?

It doesn't take long to run a pig through the lines. That said, they haven't announced when (or IF) they would pig the western lines. But considering that BP was in charge of both sides I don't know why the west pipes would be in any better shape than the east pipes.

The really negative sign would be that the spill they had this winter was in the west field. So that's not very encouraging. Since then they have been engaging in "extensive" corrosion detection on that side but they were using the same ultrasound methods that failed to detect any problems on the east side.

The options they seem to be weighing now include closing down the east side to replace the pipes and running daily visual inspections by walking the west pipes and scanning them with IR sensors looking for hotspots that would indicate tiny leaks. A process I dub the "cross your fingers and pray" method.

Another idea, Barrett said, would be having people walk along the above-ground pipelines daily with infrared sensors to pick up embryonic leaks of hot oil running through the pipes, which are clad in insulation and a steel jacket that can cloak leaking oil before it actually drops onto the tundra.
In other words... they already believe the west pipes are in as bad of shape as the east lines but since they are under sooo much pressure not to shut down the entire field they will hope they can finish the east side repairs before something else bad happens on the west side. Apparently, running at half capacity for twice as long as a full shut down is better than a full shut down.

Here's the rub... it's still summer up there. In two months (less really - but that is how long it could take to fix the east pipes) it will be winter. These repairs are challenging enough in the summer. In the winter it will be an absolute nightmare.

All that having been said... They have still not announced exactly what they intend to do. Right now they official word is still that they are shutting down the whole field.

adn.com will have the best reporting on the issue if you want to follow this.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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Linky
It's official. (Soon to be Ex-)Governor Murkowski has directed Alaska Atty General Dave Marquez to see what the state's options are in pursuing damages and recovering lost state revenues from the Prudhoe shutdown.

He's also creating a new cabinet to hold hearings, question people under oath and investigate what happened.




I have a work crew up at Kuparuk (A Conoco-Phillips managed field about 40 miles west of Prudhoe) right now. I had a chance to talk to one of my guys this afternoon. It sounds like that field will ramp up production slightly to cover the loss of deisel that they use for themselves but other than that they aren't expecting to see any changes in production to cover the shortfall from Prudhoe. Kuparuk is the other 400,000 barrels that run through the TAP every day. It also sounded like BP was going to try to figure out a "repair as you go" type of fix for Prudhoe whereby they don't have to shut down the entire field. Conoco-Phillips is diverting man power to Prudhoe to help with the repairs. It is safe to assume that other companies are doing the same but I don't have confirmation of that.

So the rumor mill right now is suggesting that the situation, while really really bad... itsn't completely doom and gloom. The next couple of days will tell the tale.
 
Jun 27, 2005
19,251
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Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I knew there were Big Oil Apologist's on here.

And who would that be? Other than Astrosfan95 (who later deferred) who is defending the parties involved in this mess?

Or are you just trolling for a reaction?
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Looks like BP was told in Februrary of 2004 that what they were doing was questionable.

BP Warned

Insiders state that the 'cost and corner cutting dates to around 1999' -

Cost cuts created "anxiety in the workforce, and that impacts safety," a contractor and supplier said in the report. "Contractors, suppliers and the conservation community were concerned about BP's purported drive to support the highest standards, yet push for reduced costs in its operations."

The company "has been cutting corners" since about 1999, said Charles Hamel, a former oil broker who lobbies government regulators on behalf of Alaskan oil workers. BP "shareholders were not well served by" the company's cost-cutting, he said in an interview this week.



But again, if they hadn't pigged the lines since 1992 or 1994 there had already been a Managment Decision made
to choose profit over maintainence responsibility.

 

Pabster

Lifer
Apr 15, 2001
16,987
1
0
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
I knew there were Big Oil Apologist's on here.

Where are these "Big Oil Apologists's" Dave?

I haven't seen any one defend the (mis)conduct of BP in this situation.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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Another Update...

Looks like they are going to keep the west half of the field pumping while they fix the pipes on the east half. A final decision will be made this weekend but for now the field is still up and running.

Link
BP will try to keep half of Prudhoe Bay open

By JEANNETTE J. LEE
The Associated Press

Published: August 10, 2006
Last Modified: August 10, 2006 at 04:48 PM


PRUDHOE BAY - BP officials said Thursday they might be able to keep one side of the nation?s largest oil field open, just days after the company said it was closing the entire field as a precaution because of leaks and severe corrosion.


The eastern side of the field was closed Tuesday.

BP officials said they may be able to keep the western side of the field open because the company doesn?t want to shut down the pipeline entirely.

A final decision was expected this weekend.

About 140,000 gallons of oil were still flowing out of Prudhoe Bay as of late Thursday, said Craig Wiggs, a performance unit leader for BP.

If the western side kept flowing, that would mean the company would be able to maintain the 140,000-barrel capacity - and possibly ramp up to 185,000 barrels - while work continues on the eastern side.
 
Jun 27, 2005
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**IT'S OFFICIAL**
The western half of Prudhoe will remain open for now. But the rationale is self conflicting.

They are relying on ultrasound test results in determining that the pipe system on the western half is safe. This would be the same technology that was used to determine that the eastern half was safe until last weekend when they ran a pig through those pipes and found them to have the integrity of swiss cheese.

They plan to pig the western pipes in November (just about the time the east repairs should be completed... hmmm) to sweep out the sludge and check pipe integrity. (But I thought ultrasound testing said they were fine?)

So basically, they are bowing to pressure not to completely shut down the whole field at once.

As a result, the entire board of directors at BP is crossing their fingers and toes while praying to God, Allah and Tom Cruise to keep the west half of the field free from disaster for the next two months.

Link
Total shutdown averted
Western portion will be vigilantly monitored, company says

By WESLEY LOY
Anchorage Daily News

Published: August 12, 2006
Last Modified: August 12, 2006 at 07:05 AM


BP executives on Friday abandoned plans to completely shut down the vast Prudhoe Bay oil field for fear of pipeline leaks, saying a closer look at key pipes showed the western half of the field could keep pumping safely.

See testing methods below... jeezzz

That means Prudhoe -- normally averaging 400,000 barrels a day, a big component of total U.S. oil output -- will produce at only about half capacity in coming weeks as BP moves to tighten up pipeline maintenance.

BP executives laid out extraordinary measures to prevent leaks from a key 5-mile section of pipe, known as a transit line, on the field's west side. The precautions include continuous ground and air patrols by crews looking for leaks.

The company came up with the plan to keep Prudhoe at half strength after consulting Friday with state and federal regulators. They pored over 1,400 ultrasonic inspections -- tests that can reveal thinning or holes in steel pipeline walls -- conducted along the pipe and concluded that western Prudhoe could keep running safely.

what, What, WHAT?

"With greatly enhanced surveillance and response capability, I am confident we can continue to safely operate the line," said Bob Malone, president of BP America.

Friday's announcement means BP's startling original plan, announced last Sunday, to close the nation's largest oil field entirely will not be played out.

Through the week, the company had gradually closed down the hundreds of wells and processing plants across Prudhoe's eastern side, but left the western side up for the most part.

BP executives had said a leak from an east-side pipeline Sunday had shaken their confidence in the integrity of pipelines elsewhere in the field, especially on the western side. Right after finding the leak, BP started a shutdown of the field, a move regulators said they didn't order.

In a statement Friday, the company said it intends to replace 16 miles of transit lines by early next year. It also said it's possible engineers can find safe ways to boost Prudhoe's production to more than half capacity.

So they are going to put even more pressure on a system with very questionable integrity? Oh my...

The transit lines are major arteries within Prudhoe, feeding crude oil from across the field into the mouth of the trans-Alaska pipeline, which runs 800 miles south to the Valdez tanker port.

Pending the pipeline replacements, the company vowed to keep a much closer eye than normal on the 5-mile westside transit line. The pipe links to another, shorter segment that failed this spring, allowing 201,000 gallons of oil to spill onto the tundra. It was the largest oil spill ever on the North Slope.

But the western pipes are fine, right? What?

Among the monitoring measures BP announced Friday:

? The company will fly over the western transit line daily, looking for leaks with infrared cameras. Oil coming out of Prudhoe wells is hot, and the infrared can detect small leaks from the heavily insulated lines by sensing changes in a pipe's surface temperature.

? Two vehicles equipped with spill response equipment and infrared gear will patrol the line 24 hours a day. Also, pipeline walkers will inspect the line by sight 10 times a day.

The company also vowed that by the end of November it would run devices known as pigs through its western transit line to clean out sludge and test for corrosion-related wall thinning or holes.

But I thought the ultrasound tests said everything was fine?

Regulators have criticized BP for not using these pigs for many years on the transit lines, allowing sludge and bacteria to build up, a recipe for corrosion that can eat through the steel. BP now is under orders from the U.S. Pipeline and Hazardous Materials Safety Administration to do so.

BP spokesmen have conceded the company should have used the pigs, though they note that transit lines aren't high corrosion risks because of the waterfree oil they carry and that the outbreak of corrosion caught them by surprise.

Aside from regulators, BP's pipeline maintenance practices are under scrutiny from members of Congress as well as a federal grand jury, which has issued BP a sweeping subpoena for documents.

In another development Friday, BP spokesmen and state Department of Environmental Conservation officials said the east-side transit line leak last Sunday, which triggered BP's field shutdown, was bigger than originally thought.

They said 15 barrels, or 630 gallons, of crude oil had been collected off the grassy tundra alongside the pipeline. The recovered oil is triple the amount BP initially indicated had spilled, and the final tally on the spill volume could go slightly higher, DEC officials said.

BP owns about 26 percent of the Prudhoe Bay field and operates it on behalf of itself and partners including Exxon Mobil and Conoco Phillips, each of which own about 36 percent.

At normal output, Prudhoe Bay's 400,000 barrels a day is almost half of overall North Slope production, 8 percent of U.S. production, and 2.6 percent of total U.S. crude oil supply counting imports.

Prudhoe's output stood Friday at 155,000 barrels per day.

After BP announced its shutdown, market prices for crude oil spiked higher temporarily on fears the field shutdown could last weeks or months, creating shortages for refineries and higher gasoline prices at retail pumps.

On Friday, the price of North Slope crude for delivery to West Coast spot markets closed at $73.05 a barrel, up 35 cents from Thursday but well off the near-record $75.68 closing price on Monday, the first trading day after BP announced the shutdown.

Crude oil prices are extremely important not only to refiners and consumers, but to the state government. State officials had estimated that a full shutdown of Prudhoe Bay would cost the state $6.4 million per day in royalty and tax collections and would run the state budget into the red in about 60 days.

I say make them fix their mess then kick them off the slope and hand their operations over to more responsible people.

 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Where is that guy that continues to insist Oil inventories are not at record highs?

8-17-2006 Oil prices continued to slide Thursday as international traders responded to U.S. government data showing that crude oil stockpiles are above average

The U.S. Energy Department reported that the country's commercial crude oil inventories fell 1.6 million barrels in the week ending Aug. 11.

However, inventories remain well above the average range for this time of year at 331 million barrels.
===============================================
Inventory has never dropped below 5 yr high.

There has never been a fvking SUPPLY problem :|
 

GoPackGo

Diamond Member
Oct 10, 2003
6,441
501
126

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,420
14,322
136
Originally posted by: catnap1972

Awesome news! And just in time (<12 weeks) to get the status quo reelected in November by the American sheep.

:roll:

The American sheep should know by now that oil and gas prices always go down in the fall. I've been telling this forum for years that the direction oil prices will move can be predicted just by looking at a calendar but most of the people here continue to believe that (to use another Orwell reference) the chocolate ration never changes.

I will now predict that prices will spike back up just before Labor Day, then plummet starting in mid-September and that will we have $2 gas by December. There will be a brief spike around the holiday season, then back to $3 gas in the spring.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic

The American sheep should know by now that oil and gas prices always go down in the fall. I've been telling this forum for years that the direction oil prices will move can be predicted just by looking at a calendar but most of the people here continue to believe that (to use another Orwell reference) the chocolate ration never changes.

I will now predict that prices will spike back up just before Labor Day, then plummet starting in mid-September and that will we have $2 gas by December. There will be a brief spike around the holiday season, then back to $3 gas in the spring.

What would be the mitigating factor for gas to go back to $2 when Oil is still around $70???
 

Vic

Elite Member
Jun 12, 2001
50,420
14,322
136
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic

The American sheep should know by now that oil and gas prices always go down in the fall. I've been telling this forum for years that the direction oil prices will move can be predicted just by looking at a calendar but most of the people here continue to believe that (to use another Orwell reference) the chocolate ration never changes.

I will now predict that prices will spike back up just before Labor Day, then plummet starting in mid-September and that will we have $2 gas by December. There will be a brief spike around the holiday season, then back to $3 gas in the spring.

What would be the mitigating factor for gas to go back to $2 when Oil is still around $70???

Oil will drop below $70 obviously.
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
Originally posted by: Vic
Originally posted by: dmcowen674
Originally posted by: Vic

The American sheep should know by now that oil and gas prices always go down in the fall. I've been telling this forum for years that the direction oil prices will move can be predicted just by looking at a calendar but most of the people here continue to believe that (to use another Orwell reference) the chocolate ration never changes.

I will now predict that prices will spike back up just before Labor Day, then plummet starting in mid-September and that will we have $2 gas by December. There will be a brief spike around the holiday season, then back to $3 gas in the spring.

What would be the mitigating factor for gas to go back to $2 when Oil is still around $70???

Oil will drop below $70 obviously.

We'll see this before Oil ever drops ever again:

Protests erupt after Nepal fuel price hike
 
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