OK, I been thinking... exactly when was America "great?"

[Muse]

Yeah, when?

I can't think of an era. I took American history courses, I've been here a while, have striven to inform myself in a variety of ways.

Was it Tom Brokaw who coined the term, "the greatest generation?" What was so damn great about America 1941-1945? Yeah, we stopped the Axis nations, but life sucked, it was terrible. Able bodied men were sent off the war all over the planet, women were pressed into service in the factories. Staples were rationed. Millions were being butchered all over the planet. Life sucked.

Pre WW II, it was isolationism. Prohibition failed, hypocrisy was everywhere. There was the Great Depression. Sucked!

Before that, the robber barons of capitalism. The industrial revolution set us on a course to ruin the planet. Then the war to end all wars, WW I, followed by the Spanish flu, prohibition, the Great depression.

Mid 19th century America was a time I would not want to have lived. It was relatively barbaric as we plundered the land and mistreated a major portion of the populace in ways that boggle the mind. Before that, well, it was practically prehistoric.

Post WW II was a dull period of psychological depression called the 1950s.

After that was the swingin' 60's, but whoa! The Vietnam War, the conflict in the streets, the protest movement aspect of America being seriously embedded in the national consciousness. America did not escape from its psychological/cultural/political chains.

The 1970's we witnessed the cooptation of all that was positive about the 1960's and the birth of more radical subcultures based on rejection of everything before.

The 1980's we had the me generation, gag me with a spoon.

The 1990's we had political polarization that turns your stomach and it's only gotten worse.

The 21st century has revealed that mankind is self destructing and the USA is abdicating its leadership position in moving forward in a positive way.

Great again? What mularky!

 

[zinfamous]

Back when Cabbage Patch dolls cost $300 and a BJ.

 

[glenn1]

When America was "great" depends on what single factor you want to isolate. Want to cherry pick that "income inequality was at its lowest" in Year X and ignore a higher quality of life in 2019 and the other negative factors about Year X like segregation, lower lifespans, blatant sexism? Go for it. Want to cherry pick that "marriages lasted longer with fewer divorces in Year X than they do now" and ignore the homophobia and McCarthyism of the era? Go for that too.

 

[SlowSpyder]

America was never great if all one does is focus on the negatives of every era. But, how did America compare to other contemporary countries?

 

[KMFJD]

It's always been a great place for rich WASP's

 

[Texashiker]

Yeah, when?

I can't think of an era. I took American history courses, I've been here a while.

I doubt you have seriously studied history. You may have taken some history classes, but I doubt you studied it outside of what you were taught in school.

Let me break it down for you, from around 1945 - the early 1980s was when America was at its greatest point in history..

After WW II we had the greatest manufacturing base the planet had ever seen. We were one of the few superpowers that did not get the hell bombed out of us, or our cities leveled.

Improved wages and working conditions.

The interstate highway project. People do no realize how much we, and the entire world, benefited from building a coast to coast highway system. The interstate highway system allowed us to become the breadbasket of the world.

Research into nuclear power.

Massive dam projects which controlled flooding and generated power. This allowed for areas to have crops grown when previously impossible.

Putting a man on the moon.

Then Nixon opened communications with China, and the government gave our factories away through free trade. Rather than protecting our jobs and factories through fair and balanced trade, various free trade agreements were signed, and those jobs started disappearing.

The late 1970s and early 1980s were a turning point in American history. The veterans of World War II (the greatest generation) built the greatest nation the world has ever seen, then they gave our wealth away to China.

Part of it was also a lack of foresight. When the oil crunch happened in the late 1970s, people dumped their gas hog cars and trucks, and turned to fuel economic toyotas.

By the time the Berlin Wall had fallen, the United States was already on the decline. First went our toy and textile factories, then our electronics, and now just about everything is made overseas.

To make matters worse, China is using the technology we gave them to build their infrastructure and military. The United States will continue to decline as China replaces us as a leading world super power. We do not even have the money to fix our bridges, while China builds some of the largest constrcution projects ever seen.

 

[Indus]

I doubt you have seriously studied history. You may have taken some history classes, but I doubt you studied it outside of what you were taught in school.

Let me break it down for you, from around 1945 - the early 1980s was when America was at its greatest point in history..

After WW II we had the greatest manufacturing base the planet had ever seen. We were one of the few superpowers that did not get the hell bombed out of us, or our cities leveled.

Improved wages and working conditions.

The interstate highway project. People do no realize how much we, and the entire world, benefited from building a coast to coast highway system.

Research into nuclear power.

Massive dam projects which controlled flooding and generated power. This allowed for areas to have crops grown when previously impossible.

Putting a man on the moon.

Then Nixon opened communications with China, and the government gave our factories away through free trade. Rather than protecting our jobs and factories through fair and balanced trade, various free trade agreements were signed, and those jobs started disappearing.

The late 1970s and early 1980s were a turning point in American history. The veterans of World War II (the greatest generation) built the greatest nation the world has ever seen, then they gave our wealth away to China.

Part of it was also a lack of foresight. When the oil crunch happened in the late 1970s, people dumped their gas hog cars and trucks, and turned to fuel economic toyotas.

By the time the Berlin Wall had fallen, the United States was already on the decline. First went our toy and textile factories, then our electronics, and now just about everything is made overseas.

To make matters worse, China is using the technology we gave them to build their infrastructure and military. The United States will continue to decline as China replaces us as a leading world super power.

It all happened due to the New Deal and the 90% top tax bracket.

And yet you oppose it.. is it because you want us to suck ass?

 

[Muse]

I doubt you have seriously studied history. You may have taken some history classes, but I doubt you studied it outside of what you were taught in school.

You have no reason to think that I only studied it in school. Very presumptuous and your taking a stab at me before saying anything more marginalizes your position before you began making it.

Edit: Reading on in your post I can see that you've drunk the Kool-aid.

 

[Vic]

American has been great each and every single day since July 4, 1776.

 

[Texashiker]

It all happened due to the New Deal and the 90% top tax bracket.

And yet you oppose it.. is it because you want us to suck ass?

As tax rates go up, overall taxes taken in goes down - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

Through federal income tax, states income tax, property tax, sales tax, medicare / medicaid tax.... you do not think rich already pay enough? If not, how much is enough?

Trump got rid of some of the SALT write offs, so the rich will have to pay more on their expensive homes.

 

[Texashiker]

You have no reason to think that I only studied it in school. Very presumptuous and your taking a stab at me before saying anything more marginalizes your position before you began making it.

Post a picture of some of the history books in your personal library.

Date stamp would be nice.

 

[KMFJD]

I doubt you have seriously studied history. You may have taken some history classes, but I doubt you studied it outside of what you were taught in school.

Let me break it down for you, from around 1945 - the early 1980s was when America was at its greatest point in history..

After WW II we had the greatest manufacturing base the planet had ever seen. We were one of the few superpowers that did not get the hell bombed out of us, or our cities leveled.

Improved wages and working conditions.

The interstate highway project. People do no realize how much we, and the entire world, benefited from building a coast to coast highway system. The interstate highway system allowed us to become the breadbasket of the world.

Research into nuclear power.

Massive dam projects which controlled flooding and generated power. This allowed for areas to have crops grown when previously impossible.

Putting a man on the moon.

Then Nixon opened communications with China, and the government gave our factories away through free trade. Rather than protecting our jobs and factories through fair and balanced trade, various free trade agreements were signed, and those jobs started disappearing.

The late 1970s and early 1980s were a turning point in American history. The veterans of World War II (the greatest generation) built the greatest nation the world has ever seen, then they gave our wealth away to China.

Part of it was also a lack of foresight. When the oil crunch happened in the late 1970s, people dumped their gas hog cars and trucks, and turned to fuel economic toyotas.

By the time the Berlin Wall had fallen, the United States was already on the decline. First went our toy and textile factories, then our electronics, and now just about everything is made overseas.

To make matters worse, China is using the technology we gave them to build their infrastructure and military. The United States will continue to decline as China replaces us as a leading world super power. We do not even have the money to fix our bridges, while China builds some of the largest constrcution projects ever seen.

So youre saying that America was at its greatest when it was at its most socialist and taxed the most?

 

[Jhhnn]

As tax rates go up, overall taxes taken in goes down - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

Through federal income tax, states income tax, property tax, sales tax, medicare / medicaid tax.... you do not think rich already pay enough? If not, how much is enough?

Trump got rid of some of the SALT write offs, so the rich will have to pay more on their expensive homes.

There's absolutely no evidence that we're anywhere near the point of diminishing returns on the Laugher curve.

You also ignore the enormous inequality that exists even in the top 1%. That's where it's at it's worst. The people at the tippy top receive very preferential tax treatment.

 

[pmv]

Conservatives have issues with spelling. Trump's fulfilling his promise to make America grate again.

 

[Jhhnn]

So youre saying that America was at its greatest when it was at its most socialist and taxed the most?

Oh, man, his synapses are gonna start smoking...

 

[zinfamous]

So youre saying that America was at its greatest when it was at its most socialist and taxed the most?

He is.

 

[zinfamous]

lol at TH trying to cite the laugher curve. what a maroon.

 

[BurnItDwn]

It may have been really great before smallpox and imperialist conquests.

 

[Texashiker]

So youre saying that America was at its greatest when it was at its most socialist and taxed the most?

No, not at all. You are twisting my words to fit your narrative.

The United States was at its greatest when we had factories, along with fair and balanced trade.

We were the greatest nation on earth when we were building. We had factories to build bridges, clothes, toys, cars, trucks.... and we had a thriving middle class because of those jobs.

Then along came free trade, those jobs moved overseas, and we have been on the decline ever since.

Taxing the rich at 70 - 90 percent had little to do with it

lol at TH trying to cite the laugher curve. what a maroon.

you have something that says otherwise?

 

[glenn1]

lol at TH trying to cite the laugher curve. what a maroon.

The basic concept seems sound (you'll yield zero tax revenue at 0% tax rate and no one will bother working at a 100% tax rate). The problem would be that determining where the "maximum revenue generation point" of tax rates is (from 0.0001% to to 99.9%) seems irrelevant. No politician asks "how I can generate the highest possible amount of tax revenue" since how much taxation is "too much" or "too little" is an entirely political question.

 

[Indus]

As tax rates go up, overall taxes taken in goes down - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Laffer_curve

Through federal income tax, states income tax, property tax, sales tax, medicare / medicaid tax.... you do not think rich already pay enough? If not, how much is enough?

Trump got rid of some of the SALT write offs, so the rich will have to pay more on their expensive homes.

What is rich?

For us its those who make more than 10 million a year.

For you its those who make more than 20k.

And that is exactly why you're guilty of making the middle class into the working poor.

 

[Texashiker]

And that is exactly why you're guilty of making the middle class into the working poor.

Please explain how I am guilty?

 

[pmv]

I doubt you have seriously studied history. You may have taken some history classes, but I doubt you studied it outside of what you were taught in school.

Let me break it down for you, from around 1945 - the early 1980s was when America was at its greatest point in history..

After WW II we had the greatest manufacturing base the planet had ever seen. We were one of the few superpowers that did not get the hell bombed out of us, or our cities leveled.

Seems to me you hit on the key point there. The post-war boom occurred in good part because the destruction of that war reset the whole economic system - and the US was uniquely well-placed to benefit, having been spared most of the destruction. Short of another global conflagration you aren't going to reproduce that.

Also, those days weren't _so_ great for anyone not white and male.

 

[UNCjigga]

I’d say America was greatest between the end of WW2 up until the Kennedy assassination. During that time, the post-war economy boomed, the American dream was attainable for even lower middle class, and we had a leadership position on the world stage. We essentially built the liberal new world order.

After Kennedy was killed, we started slipping. Vietnam War, MLK killed, 1968 riots, Nixon’s disgrace, Iran hostage affair, Iran-contra and Reaganomics all eroded public trust in our institutions, while wealth gaps widened and the middle class eroded. Government, which was supposed to be of the people, by the people, and for the people was now “too big”. We had some successes (Civil Rights, moon landing) but those came fewer and far between.

I would say our cultural influence has been waning somewhat too. All the biggest pop songs are written and produced by Swedes. Netflix is introducing more foreign produced series and movies to US audiences. Hollywood is dwindling somewhat.

 

[glenn1]

Seems to me you hit on the key point there. The post-war boom occurred in good part because the destruction of that war reset the whole economic system - and the US was uniquely well-placed to benefit, having been spared most of the destruction. Short of another global conflagration you aren't going to reproduce that.

Also, those days weren't _so_ great for anyone not white and male.

About 70 or 80 million people died in WW2, many of those white and male so it's not like it was a bonanza for them either although you're right systemic racism, sexism, homophobia and other factors made life even worse for the non white and male folks. That amount of dead might have something to do with wages and "income inequality" as well, wages tend to go up when you remove a large part of the workforce. But as I said earlier, it's not like you can scientifically isolate one single element of the period of the 1940-1960 period whether it be "91% marginal tax rates" or millions of war dead or anything else.