OK, I Screwed up by buying a Radeon video card

[stranger707]

Budman, my son's computer has an Antec Truepower 380 and my machine has an Antec 430.

 

[Budman]

Originally posted by: stranger707
Budman, my son's computer has an Antec Truepower 380 and my machine has an Antec 430.

cant be the psu then,before you completely give up on ATI if I were you I would try a clean install of the OS.

 

[stranger707]

Markfw900

I will not accept that it is a requirement to reformat or re-partition a computer's hard drive to install an ATI video card. This is unacceptable. Come on, now. This is 2004. Nvidia does not require this extreme measure. The 5700 Ultra works just great on my son's computer after I removed the 9800 Pro - no Driver Cleaner, no reformatting, no re-partitioning.

If ATI has a product that requires a 3rd party drive cleaner, or re-partitioning or reformatting of the hard drive for their product to function properly, then they need to get into a new line of business.

They sell their video cards in stores an upgrade product, and they don't require, in their installation literature, these extreme measures. If I was shopping for a video card and the manufacturerer required that I reformat a hard drive to install a new video card - I would never buy their product.

 

[sharq]

Originally posted by: stranger707
I didn't spend $500 for that card. I got the 9800 Pro for $230. And, actually, your logic is strange. Why should I have to spend more time fixing a problem on a video card that is more expensive, really expensive. Rolls Royce drivers don't expect more problems with their cars than Volkwagen drivers. They expect perfection.

I understand what you're saying, and I agree with you that when you're paying that much you expect a certain level of perfection (or whatever one wants to call it). But, if I spend $230 on a video card, on anything, I make sure it works and works right. I'll have the company replace it, try a few solutions before I take a loss on my investment because I can't get it to work, or I can't get it replaced or something. I took our new car to the dealer whenever I felt something wasn't perfect with it, had them look at it, give it to me in writing that nothing was wrong. The customer shouldn't be expected to do that when they've spent 10's of thousands of dollars, but guess what, it's your hard earned money! They sold it to you, they don't care what you do with it, so it is up to you to make sure you got what you paid for.
Sucks that you had badluck, but to me it seems like you went in expecting it to fail, and when it did, you are here venting your anger. I don't know if you even asked for help on how to fix your problem. Plus cmon, you honestly think the problem with migrating between drivers has to do with ATI and not the windows OS that you were running? The reformat is recommended by anyone with a "sub 100 IQ" as a last resort (a first resort for some of us) simply cause of the OS, it has nothing to do with the hardware.

EDIT: It may be 2k4, but there is no bug free OS on the market. Windows/linux/unix/bsd/dos they all have their problems. The reformat is to deal with the OS's bugs, not the hardware or the driver!

 

[NFactor]

I have been aware of some freezing problems in Call of Duty with the new Cat's but besides that your problems are very weird. I run a 9700 Pro and i have several friends who do as well and i have had no lock up problems in games or any other 3D app that i run.

Your problem is most likely not because of the physical video card because otherwise there would have been an uproar here a long time ago. If you really want to know what the problem is post your system specs and descriptions of the problems and the people here will most likely help you through it.

 

[AIWGuru]

I own 3 all in wonder cards (ve, 8500DV, 9600Pro) and a 64MB radeon VIVIO and a rage pro somethingorother. I can tell you beyond a shadow of a doubt that these cards are all flakey because of their drivers and software. The AIWs have to undergo regular formatting just to stay completely functional and upgrading drivers is an impossibility without formatting with those in particular.

ATI's quality control is really crappy. Of late (3.8) they've released drivers where OpenGL was completely broken (as in reset system) on absolutely all all in wonder cards ever made. That means they didn't even fire up one openGL game during this driver's testing on any AIW.

Then there's the R200 series problems which span several recent revisions and Terry Makedon (head of Catalyst Team)'s admission that hey don't have much r200 testing. Also, the current OpenGL gamma fiasco.

It's safe to say that ATI's software is incredibly flakey especially MMC and Guide+.

I've only owned two Nvidia cards recently (GeForce 3ti 200 - some time ago) and the one in my sig. While they may not be power houses, they're the only reliable videocards I own.

Sorry ATI.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: NFactor
I have been aware of some freezing problems in Call of Duty with the new Cat's but besides that your problems are very weird. I run a 9700 Pro and i have several friends who do as well and i have had no lock up problems in games or any other 3D app that i run.

Your problem is most likely not because of the physical video card because otherwise there would have been an uproar here a long time ago. If you really want to know what the problem is post your system specs and descriptions of the problems and the people here will most likely help you through it.

Visit rage3d's catalyst support forum. You'll find that your sitution is the odd one - being able to run COD. Most radeon users can't without using 3.7 and even then it's flakey.

 

[oldfart]

I have a buddy that is a BF1942 fanatic (mostly DC). He plays that game constantly. He runs a 9700P and never has any problems. I am more of a casual gamer (dont have the time for it). I run a 9800P and have never had a problem with BF9142 either.

 

[VTrider]

Originally posted by: stranger707
Ok, but when you buy a computer product that has software (drivers) and hardware, the product is the sum of both. If ATI can't produce a fully functional set of drivers for the video card, the hardware is worthless. I don't care whether there is no problem with my video card. I care whether ATI can provide hardware and drivers that will function fully in my computer with the software that I use. Otherwise, they are selling worthless crap!

Man

talk about jumping to conclusions, this sounds more like an attempt to start a flame war, but I guess we have to give stranger707 the benefit of the doubt and try to inject some reality about hardware/software to this matter.

I believe both ATI and NVidia produce fine Hardware and Software, tens of thousands of ATers here will attest to that. Your problem probably lies in some silly conflict either hardware and/or software in 'your' system - thing is and everybody ofcourse knows this that no two systems are alike. Stop making assumptions because it's the easiest thing to do, start doing some troubleshooting and asking for some help, hey you might fix your problem and learn a thing or two in the process!

Fact is, you don't know what's wrong and to make such a across the board generalization of one companies product is just, well just foolish...

 

[caz67]

I have never used ATI products..I was thinking about 9800XT.

I think ill wait for the new Nvidia Nv4X series.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: VTrider

Originally posted by: stranger707
Ok, but when you buy a computer product that has software (drivers) and hardware, the product is the sum of both. If ATI can't produce a fully functional set of drivers for the video card, the hardware is worthless. I don't care whether there is no problem with my video card. I care whether ATI can provide hardware and drivers that will function fully in my computer with the software that I use. Otherwise, they are selling worthless crap!

Man

talk about jumping to conclusions, this sounds more like an attempt to start a flame war, but I guess we have to give stranger707 the benefit of the doubt and try to inject some reality about hardware/software to this matter.

I believe both ATI and NVidia produce fine Hardware and Software, tens of thousands of ATers here will attest to that. Your problem probably lies in some silly conflict either hardware and/or software in 'your' system - thing is and everybody ofcourse knows this that no two systems are alike. Stop making assumptions because it's the easiest thing to do, start doing some troubleshooting and asking for some help, hey you might fix your problem and learn a thing or two in the process!

Fact is, you don't know what's wrong and to make such a across the board generalization of one companies product is just, well just foolish...

I don't know about this guy, but I'm speaking from a huge pool of experience and years of troubleshooting / dealing with ATI's driver team.

Here's another "board" (sic) generalization: VIA makes a shoddy product.

 

[sharq]

AIWGuru, if you think their support/drivers/troubleshooting is bad, why do you own 3 all-in-wonder cards?? I have owned a TV card in the past from ATI and I will say their drivers for AIW or TV stuff are 50-50. But I own a radeon and have not had problems with it.
People, you are the consumer, exercise your right to choose. You dictate how the market goes, not a company's monopoly.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: sharq
AIWGuru, if you think their support/drivers/troubleshooting is bad, why do you own 3 all-in-wonder cards?? I have owned a TV card in the past from ATI and I will say their drivers for AIW or TV stuff are 50-50. But I own a radeon and have not had problems with it.
People, you are the consumer, exercise your right to choose. You dictate how the market goes, not a company's monopoly.

I've been an ATI fan forever and have been active in the community as a beta tester and working with the boys at Rage3d to improve the product line.

Don't get me started on ATI's partisan support for their TV wonder line (although you're going to like the impending HDTV wonders which will be bundled with AIWs to start - two cards.)

I know the score with ATI and I tell it like it is. I always have. But...I still like them.

I'm going to buy a HDAIW as soon as released...

And when I need a system that runs all the time I have my two Nvidia cards.

 

[sharq]

As wierd as your answer is AIWGuru, I respect your honesty about the product you support and are a fan of.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: stranger707
About 3 months ago I started a flamefest on this forum by asking why I should buy an ATI card. I have been a staunch Nvidia fan for years, and I have had no problems with the GeForce cards. I have bought GeForce 2 Pro's, GeForce 3 Ti200's, GeForce 4 4800's and many more. They all worked fine in AutoCAD and many, many games.

But many people who posted on my original post 3 months ago convinced me to try an ATI card. So last month I bought two new cards: an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro for my machine and an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro for my son's computer. My son soon bought Battlefield 1942 and tried out the 9800 Pro. What a disaster. It locked up the computer over and over. We updated the Catalyst drivers, and the problems never abated. I was disappointed by the ATI product support solution to the problems with this new DirectX 9.0 game -- to turn off the best rendering capabilities of the 9800 Pro.

This problem is not isolated to Battlefield 1942. I have experienced the same problems with Call of Duty on my 9700 Pro.

I finally bought an Nvidia 5700 Ultra for my son's computer so that he could play Battlefield 1942 on LAN games without having the computer lock up. Since we installed the 5700 Ultra he has had no problems.

So I wonder why the ATI crowd can recommend these video cards. They obviously cannot perform, they obviously cannot meet the minimum specifications that they claim to achieve.

Why would you recommend such a product???????

I would say you FUBARED the drivers. Off the top of my head i can think of a dozen guys I Lan with using 9600, 9700, and 9800 Pros and Not one of them has had any problwn like you describe with those games unless they didn't correctly remove the previous cards drivers first. Sounds like you Just don'r know as much as you think you do about properly installing and configuring cards and drivers.

 

[Adul]

lan gaming place i know of uses all 9800 pro in their pcs.

battlefield 1942 is not an issue for them on 24 computers

 

[Shamrock]

ya know, it's pathetic when you have to recommend REFORMATTING to get a video card to run. I've NEVER done that. If Driver cleaner doesnt do the trick, something is wrong

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: stranger707
The Call of Duty issues were not fixed in 3.8

They still exist and have not been fixed.

Thats a load of crap It runs just fine for me. You just have your system whacked. It isn'r ATI's fault that your old Nvidia drivers left their droppings behind when you uninstalled them. thats why there is a driver cleaner to get rid of all the crap that the nvidia drivers leave behind.

 

[flexy]

So I wonder why the ATI crowd can recommend these video cards. They obviously cannot perform, they obviously cannot meet the minimum specifications that they claim to achieve.

Why would you recommend such a product???????

That's NOT the question - millions of users use these cards (incl. me) and are happy with 'em and have no problems.

I almost bet you're the same guy who posted over at rage3e..sounded identical. If you NV card works for you, good.

But if you have setup/config-issues with your PC and are unable to solve them (because of a lack of knowledge) then do me a favor and stop posting nonsense.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: stranger707
Ok, but when you buy a computer product that has software (drivers) and hardware, the product is the sum of both. If ATI can't produce a fully functional set of drivers for the video card, the hardware is worthless. I don't care whether there is no problem with my video card. I care whether ATI can provide hardware and drivers that will function fully in my computer with the software that I use. Otherwise, they are selling worthless crap!

ATI produce(d) and still does, every month, a nice set of new cats. I just d/l the 4.3 which were released TODAY. Never had any issues (not to mention CRASHES) ever...

A PC is more complex than seeing a problem and pointig the finger at a company and saying it's their fault. If it were - why do i and countless others have NO problems ?

But...if you think ATI is selling worthless crap...so be it Be happy with your 5700.

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: NesuD

Originally posted by: stranger707
The Call of Duty issues were not fixed in 3.8

They still exist and have not been fixed.

Thats a load of crap It runs just fine for me. You just have your system whacked. It isn'r ATI's fault that your old Nvidia drivers left their droppings behind when you uninstalled them. thats why there is a driver cleaner to get rid of all the crap that the nvidia drivers leave behind.

Yes. Because YOU don't have any trouble with your unique set of hardware, drivers, software and settings, NO ONE DOES!
Makes sense...
Here are some threads for you from the experts:
Mar 9: call of duty still unplayable

current stuttering problems apply to CoD too
"I reformatted my PC last night and it still does it?!" 4.10 (and up) causes cod to crash

 

[AIWGuru]

Originally posted by: flexy

Originally posted by: stranger707
Ok, but when you buy a computer product that has software (drivers) and hardware, the product is the sum of both. If ATI can't produce a fully functional set of drivers for the video card, the hardware is worthless. I don't care whether there is no problem with my video card. I care whether ATI can provide hardware and drivers that will function fully in my computer with the software that I use. Otherwise, they are selling worthless crap!

ATI produce(d) and still does, every month, a nice set of new cats. I just d/l the 4.3 which were released TODAY. Never had any issues (not to mention CRASHES) ever...

A PC is more complex than seeing a problem and pointig the finger at a company and saying it's their fault. If it were - why do i and countless others have NO problems ?

But...if you think ATI is selling worthless crap...so be it Be happy with your 5700.

Are you running 4.2 or 4.3? Do me a favour, fire up an OpenGL app and try to change the gamma LOL!

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: sharq
hehe I will find it hilarious if he's here complaining and never tried a reformat.

i NEVER ever re-formatted my comp (XP, SP1). How many Radon drivers did i install ? (I started with a 8500 just when it came out and isntalled as god as EACH driver, including BETAS..the really EARLY ones). now have a 9800 and install as good as each new CAT (ok, skipped 4.2

NO problems whatsoever..i dont even use driver cleaner.

What i do:
- Just normal uninstall of CP, then drivers.

- then use a tool called 'regcleaner' and erase all ATI related entries in the registry. (Just to make sure.....)

- install new drivers, install new CP

NEVER EVER locks, BSODS, crashes whatsoever - AMAZING, ain't it ? What garbage does ATI produce there......

PS i also overclock moderatlely

 

[AIWGuru]

I've heard people say they've never had a problem with a KT133 (no a)
Same thing as what you're doing.

 

[flexy]

e. The AIWs have to undergo regular formatting just to stay completely functional and upgrading drivers is an impossibility without formatting with those in particular.

i real 'guru' wouldnt recomend formmatting every few months to get rid of problems. Maybe consider changing your nick