OK, I Screwed up by buying a Radeon video card

[rbV5]

Just to remind folks to make sure if you have issues with the Catalyst drivers to take the time submit the issue to the Catalyst Team. I personally have switched between my ti4200 and my AIW a couple times in both my Primary and one of my other rigs a few times this past year, and changed my Radeon driver numerous times without the kind of issues I've read here. I always use drivercleaner when switching between NV and ATI cards, and always use cab cleaner after an OS or SP install to remove legacy drivers just to make driver installs easier. Most of the time I simply install the ATI drivers over the top of the previous drivers, and unless you have a large gap between driver versions, is perfectly fine and recommended way to do it. I haven't reinstalled my OS for well over a year, and have had every available driver version installed for at least a little while. In that entire time, my biggest issue was a fubured OpenGL driver specific to AIW cards in one of the Cat packages, ATI quickly supplied a hot patch. ATI drivers don't seem any more problematic than the NV drivers from my experience.

The most common driver installation issue I've come across is not updating your MB chipset drivers prior to installing Catalyst.

 

[PCTweaker5]

Originally posted by: Atlantean

Originally posted by: PCTweaker5

Originally posted by: Atlantean

Originally posted by: stranger707
About 3 months ago I started a flamefest on this forum by asking why I should buy an ATI card. I have been a staunch Nvidia fan for years, and I have had no problems with the GeForce cards. I have bought GeForce 2 Pro's, GeForce 3 Ti200's, GeForce 4 4800's and many more. They all worked fine in AutoCAD and many, many games.

But many people who posted on my original post 3 months ago convinced me to try an ATI card. So last month I bought two new cards: an ATI Radeon 9700 Pro for my machine and an ATI Radeon 9800 Pro for my son's computer. My son soon bought Battlefield 1942 and tried out the 9800 Pro. What a disaster. It locked up the computer over and over. We updated the Catalyst drivers, and the problems never abated. I was disappointed by the ATI product support solution to the problems with this new DirectX 9.0 game -- to turn off the best rendering capabilities of the 9800 Pro.

This problem is not isolated to Battlefield 1942. I have experienced the same problems with Call of Duty on my 9700 Pro.

I finally bought an Nvidia 5700 Ultra for my son's computer so that he could play Battlefield 1942 on LAN games without having the computer lock up. Since we installed the 5700 Ultra he has had no problems.

So I wonder why the ATI crowd can recommend these video cards. They obviously cannot perform, they obviously cannot meet the minimum specifications that they claim to achieve.

Why would you recommend such a product???????

Because it is a hellofa lot better than the 5700 ultra, you obviously have little idea what you are doing because when I run battlefield 1942 it looks great. Perhaps you should have removed your old nvidia drivers with drivercleaner before you installed the 9800 pro... you may have gotten a lemon though and might need to warranty it... have you tried downloading the latest drivers?

He never said anything about how it looks so I take it it locks up for you too.

Umm nope I have never once had it lock up... thats why I was wondering what he is talking about... also if it had locked up wouldn't that mean that I am unable to play it?

No you can play it for a few minutes and then it locks up even then you are still playing it. But whatever going further with this discussion doesnt help anything.

 

[nitromullet]

Originally posted by: pdn "....Well................it's kind of funny on how I have 3 different pc's all with ATI cards and I haven't had the problems that has been suggested by all the NVIDIA hard core users! My games play well, awesome graphics. Sure I've had my share of problems....

Your sig indicates that you are running a RADEON 7000 64MB. Apparently, the definition of awesome is very subjective. I replaced a RADEON 7200 about 1.5 years ago with a GeForce 4 Ti4200, and noticed a considerable difference in FPS back then. Also, the 7000 is well over 2 years old now, so the drivers should be stable by now. The original poster had a slighly newer card... I'm not going to pick sides on this debate (my rig speaks for itself), but I just wanted to point out that you were comparing the stabilty of very mature (old) hardware/drivers to something considerably more cutting edge.

 

[Sid59]

maybe more positive answers bump?

dunno if i subscribe to the OP theory of "product A and B are in the same field. Product A should work exactly the same as product B because i've had great experiences with it. For the price of Product A, i expect it to work flawless without hitch."

 

[pdn]

Originally posted by: nitromullet

Originally posted by: pdn "....Well................it's kind of funny on how I have 3 different pc's all with ATI cards and I haven't had the problems that has been suggested by all the NVIDIA hard core users! My games play well, awesome graphics. Sure I've had my share of problems....

Your sig indicates that you are running a RADEON 7000 64MB. Apparently, the definition of awesome is very subjective. I replaced a RADEON 7200 about 1.5 years ago with a GeForce 4 Ti4200, and noticed a considerable difference in FPS back then. Also, the 7000 is well over 2 years old now, so the drivers should be stable by now. The original poster had a slighly newer card... I'm not going to pick sides on this debate (my rig speaks for itself), but I just wanted to point out that you were comparing the stabilty of very mature (old) hardware/drivers to something considerably more cutting edge.

I foregot to mention my other pc that I have is a Dell and has a 9700 PRO and yet still with the same results! My games play great and with awesome graphics! Looks to me that some of you bought the ATI cards expecting failure and the least little problem you start screaming that they're the worst cards in the world. HMM...........I just wonder if I would have the same results if I were to try an NVIDIA card. Probably so, since my rigs have only been running ATI, it's like going from one extreme to another!

 

[nitromullet]

Comparing the 9700 Pro makes more sense. Also, I didn't have any bad experiences with the 7200, I simply replaced it because it was not meeting my performance expectations anymore. I have swapped back and forth between nVIDIA and ATi a number of times, and have never has any major driver issues with either under Windows - any problems I had were persistent even after re-formatting. My primiary reason for preferring nVIDIA cards is for their superior Linux drivers. However, I will still probably buy an ATi card again sometime. I personally, never buy anything expecting failure... If I expect failure, I won't buy it.

 

[noodlessnoop]

Anyone know how to update drivers for aiw 9800 pro in winxp without xp automatically trying to put in your old drivers after reboot? I'm sure it can be done without going into safe mode but I'm not sure how. XP always automatically reinstalls the drivers after removing them upon getting back into windows and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it from automatically putting the old drivers back in. It gives me no option to stop them from installing automatically! HELP!

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: noodlessnoop
Anyone know how to update drivers for aiw 9800 pro in winxp without xp automatically trying to put in your old drivers after reboot? I'm sure it can be done without going into safe mode but I'm not sure how. XP always automatically reinstalls the drivers after removing them upon getting back into windows and I can't seem to figure out how to stop it from automatically putting the old drivers back in. It gives me no option to stop them from installing automatically! HELP!

Use cab cleaner from drivercleaner, and clean the driver.cab and sp1.cab and unplug your internet connection after uninstalling the driver and reboot. Then you should be able to cancel the windows driver installation after it reboots, and install the new driver.

 

[noodlessnoop]

What's the purpose of the cable network disconnect?

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: noodlessnoop
What's the purpose of the cable network disconnect?

XP will find the WHQL drivers on the internet and install them.

 

[noodlessnoop]

I read back to your earlier post and saw that you usually just overwrite your last drivers if it's the same card and just updating to the next driver they just released. I did that yesterday going from cat4.1 to 4.3 and everything seemed to work fine. Following the directions that ATI puts out doesn't work our right because xp tries to put the drivers you had just uninstalled back in after reboot and won't give the option to stop it. Are you saying that possibly xp is looking for drivers on the internet or something or what? Just trying to understand what you mean by telling me that I should basically shut off my cable modem before restart and why this matters. Thanks.

 

[noodlessnoop]

No kidding! Never was told that before. Well, that answers alot of questions. Just downloaded the program you recommended though to try in case I need it next time. Thanks

 

[rbV5]

Originally posted by: noodlessnoop
No kidding! Never was told that before. Well, that answers alot of questions. Just downloaded the program you recommended though to try in case I need it next time. Thanks

You also only need to use cab cleaner once, unless you install a SP, or reinstall your OS.

 

[flexy]

Originally posted by: noodlessnoop
Anyone know how to update drivers for aiw 9800 pro in winxp without xp automatically trying to put in your old drivers after reboot? HELP!

i think i posted it in the same thread...here's what i do:

- uninstall control panel (add/remove programs...)
- uninstall ATI display drivers
- reboot
- win comes up with two 'new hardware found' requesters....CANCEL THOSE !
[you are now in VGA mode with no drivers installed]

- use a tool caled 'regcleaner' and erase all "ATI" entries in the registry (just to be safe and get rid of all old driver entries)
^^^(might be able to skip this step, but i do anyway)

- install new drivers
- reboot
- install new control panel

 

[ectx]

Impossible to follow the thread. What happened? Did he have the problems fixed?

I have my shares of video card / driver / bios / video bios incompatibility problems. No big deal.

 

[tweeve2002]

im not here to debate on what card is better...stranger I know how you fell at times video problems can be a pain to fix...recently a friend of mine was having video problems...his Radeon 9600 XT would lag on games so bad it just about crashed the computer...we swaped out the 9600 for a Asus Geforce 4 TI 4800...didnt uninstall the ATI drivers or use a driver cleaner...Card worked perfect, but still lagged in games...come to find out it was nothing to do with the video card it was his Capture card not woking well with windows 2000...in fact untill resently he still had the Nvida and ATI drivers in the computer and had no problem.

Keep the 9800 and try looking at other hardware that could be having problems.

 

[pdn]

Originally posted by: tweeve2002
im not here to debate on what card is better...stranger I know how you fell at times video problems can be a pain to fix...recently a friend of mine was having video problems...his Radeon 9600 XT would lag on games so bad it just about crashed the computer...we swaped out the 9600 for a Asus Geforce 4 TI 4800...didnt uninstall the ATI drivers or use a driver cleaner...Card worked perfect, but still lagged in games...come to find out it was nothing to do with the video card it was his Capture card not woking well with windows 2000...in fact untill resently he still had the Nvida and ATI drivers in the computer and had no problem.

Keep the 9800 and try looking at other hardware that could be having problems.

Good point, meaning compatibility issues. You just went into it a little farther.

Originally posted by: flexy
...........................- use a tool caled 'regcleaner' and erase all "ATI" entries in the registry (just to be safe and get rid of all old driver entries)
^^^(might be able to skip this step, but i do any....................

I totally foregot about the Reg Cleaner but it makes sense. You should probally do this both ways going from ATI to NVIDIA, etc. With windows plug and pray setup, sometimes you kind of have to help it along in order for you to complete your task.

 

[Boonesmi]

Originally posted by: nick1985

Originally posted by: Todd33
You should not have to reformat a drive to switch video cards, stop suggesting that.

if all else fails, yes you do. or at least you should before you return the cards in a furious rage a buy a 5700Ultra.

i totally disagree
no you should NOT have to reformat just to get a video card working right

and i dont blame someone for returning a card and buying a new one (one that will have decent drivers) instead of reformatting the system


i currently use an ATI 9600pro
its been a good card, but i don't agree with all the folks out there who say "ATI drivers have matured and are now as good as nvidia"

 

[sxr7171]

Originally posted by: stranger707
Markfw900

I will not accept that it is a requirement to reformat or re-partition a computer's hard drive to install an ATI video card. This is unacceptable. Come on, now. This is 2004. Nvidia does not require this extreme measure. The 5700 Ultra works just great on my son's computer after I removed the 9800 Pro - no Driver Cleaner, no reformatting, no re-partitioning.

If ATI has a product that requires a 3rd party drive cleaner, or re-partitioning or reformatting of the hard drive for their product to function properly, then they need to get into a new line of business.

They sell their video cards in stores an upgrade product, and they don't require, in their installation literature, these extreme measures. If I was shopping for a video card and the manufacturerer required that I reformat a hard drive to install a new video card - I would never buy their product.

Do you realize that it is the NVIDIA driver that fails to completely remove itself upon uninstall, and that is what is causing the problems you are facing with your ATI cards? I had the same problem, and 30 seconds with Driver Cleaner fixed it. If you want to be so stubborn about it, just return the cards and use your 5700.

 

[jdogg707]

The funny thing is that when you go from an ATI machine to a Nvidia card, you'll run into the same problem, and vice versa. I don't care what the instructions say, I am going to install the hardware optimally, whether it takes a reformat, running Driver Cleaner, or anything else, because the whole point when buying the hardware is for it to make an imporvement. If you are ignorant enough to think that by following the instructions you'll reach that PC Nirvana you are looking for, don't blame Nvidia or ATI, just go buy a Dell and have someone fix it for you when it doesn't work the way you want it. I have built numerous systems, and with all of them I have used some kind of external tweaking that I have found here or on another forum, because it makes it perform better, and that is the whole point. I like my ATI cards, I haven't had issues in any of the games I play (C&C Generals, Warcraft 3, Unreal II, Unreal Tournament 2K4, Call of Duty, etc.), of course this doesn't mean they don't exist. I don't think it is fair to say ATI drivers are crap, because they are pretty good, not perfect, but I've not had any issues with them. I also don't think it is fair to say Nvidia drivers are better or superior, because until they make a driver with no problems at all, they still have something to work on also. I do think it is a bit irrational to spend money on a card, spend no time actually researching the problem and being upset at the possible fixes to it, and then plopping down more money on a sub par video card. If you buy something and don't invest the time to make sure it is going to work, or if it doesn't work, invest the time to get it working, then ultimately you do not deserve superior performance, because you are to stupid to get it.

 

[Jim123]

Hi, Stranger707, Thank you, this post gave me lots of pointers on how to go from a NVIDIA to ATI card. I did not do the clean install of Windows XP, that would be way to much, but I did add a BIOS Flash to the mix. and everything is working well. even with an old card.

Here's a post I have in the Video section:

-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Hi, just got and installed today a Refurbished Sapphire Radeon 9700 PRO. It's working fine, and installed easy. It's a big improvement over my old GeForce3 Ti200 card. I just have a few questions about the 9700 PRO, the card itself looks just like ATI's version, I cannot find Sapphire printed on it anywhere.

I have had not one problem with it so far, ( what would be a good way to test it ) to see if there is anything wrong with it, I have less then 15 days to return it for a refund or exchange.

It does not have a BIOS display of itself when booting up, is this the same with ATI 9700 PRO's ?

How I installed it

- Flashed the BIOS - Updated Motherboard Drivers - uninstalled NVIDIA Display Drivers - Removed Display Adapter from within Device Manager - Used Drive Cleaner (well I think it did something, but I'm not sure it did anything, within safe mode) - Removed old card / Installed new card - Installed CATALYST 4.3 Driver - Installed CATALYST Control Panel.

System Spec
Asus A7N8X Deluxe, rev 2.00, BIOS 1007 (was 1003), Nforce2 drivers 3.13 (in part)
AMD Athlon XP 2500+
768 MB RAM PC2700
Windows XP Home, with SP1

A side note on the boot screens, after flashing the BIOS the boot screen go by very very fast now, I can't read anything.

I need to test this card, because I have now less then 11 days left now to return it if it's bad.

One last thing, I got it at NewEgg.com

PS I think I got very lucky, but I want to be sure.

Thank you
Jim
-----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I don't have Call of Duty, so I can't test that, But I've had no problems with Homeworld2, and UT2003 (with all its add-on). Did you check your BIOS, Asus for my motherboard had two fix (one in two BIOS update) regarding the AGP bus for ATI 8500 cards. In my mind Asus was having issues with ATI, so go with the fix. And at the ATI website one of there fix's is update your BIOS. I am fairly sure my card is more then OK now, but I'll let you know if it goes bad.

This is a good post, lots of information here.

Again Thank you
Jim

 

[Slogun]

Looks like the author of this thread has a knack for producing flame bait.
BTW, COD and everything looks just spectacular on my 9800Pro.
Never had a problem with drivers, but I will try driver cleaner for the first time next time I upgrade.
My only (?) problem is I've now had to send it back to ATI twice in a 5 month period for replacement due to premature death.
Thank "Bob" for the 5 year warrantee. After 4 years of dealing with nVidia refresh rate fixes, there is no video card paradise.

 

[bsmithy]

the problem with ATI cards is they punish people who don'yt know what they're doing

 

[billbillw]

I might as well chime in here too. I don't consider myself a fanboy of either brand. I've built several systems, and had experience with both brands. (see my current rigs)

I upgraded last fall from a GF4 MX420 to a Radeon 9800Pro with no problems on my P4 system.

I didn't use driver cleaner or reformat or anything screwy. Just:
Unistall NV drivers.
Turn off, remove and replace card with ATI.
Reboot and install ATI drivers.
Reboot. Play games.

I play COD, UT2003, UT2004, MaxPayne, QIII, and others, all with no problems, whatsoever.
I have more problems with my damn SB Audigy drivers.

You shouldn't have to reformat/reinstall. If problems arise, my advice is:
Make sure your system is above the minimum requirements (esp power supply!) Hopefully this occurs before you buy the new card!
Make sure your bios is up to date and you are using current drivers for all of your hardware. In addition, make sure the bios settings are correct for your hardware config. LEARN YOUR BIOS!
Make sure that Windows Update has installed all the service packs/hotfixes and you have applied any game patches. If that is not enough, you probably do have incompatible hardware. Rare, but it happens.

My other system has an GF FX5900. It has quite a few problems playing games. I've had lockups and random reboots. Even with Half Life!
Right now I'm not sure if the lockups/reboots are related to the VGA card or other some other hardware issue. I've been troubleshooting it for over 2 weeks now and I think the problem is the MB or my memory. I do not blame NVidia for my problems, building custom systems is always risky. Out of all my experience, I have had the most problems with a TNT2 Ultra in an early Athlon system. I could never play games reliably with that setup, but I suspect it had more to do with my early Athlon Slot A motherboard (mixed AMD/VIA chipset) than it did with the TNT card.

I think that both companies make great hardware and both offer very good driver support. NV might be slightly better in the driver dept (XP64 drivers and Linux drivers), but ATI has nothing to be ashamed of.

 

[Revolutionary]

Originally posted by: bluemax
I've used both.

I like both.

[shrug] Whatever's the best deal - they both work fine.

Hear hear. You don't join a team or a family or a cult when you buy a friggin video card. You are not marrying a friggin video card. You simply buy a friggin video card. Its plastic and silicon and 8 inches long. You stick it in a box the day you get it, and you don't look at it again until you've decided to replace it, probably in a year.