Ok, Just what Created the BIG BANG then? Creationism Overrules IMO..

[Panther]

can I get an amen?

 

[bigdog1218]

ross i'm just messin with you, its always fun to mess with an educated man, until the next battle, good night

 

[KrispyKremer]

Mikal, it's those kinds of people that give Religion in general, and Christianity in particular, a bad name.

We have yet to determine whether the universe is infinite or in an "in-between" stage of contracting and expanding.

Maetryx, you bring up Descartes arguments, but his basic argument is flawed in that it presupposes the "I" in the equation. True, there is thinking going on, but who or what is doing that thinking?

The probability of such events occuring as they have cannot accurately be determined. Who are we to even begin to imagine our feeble brains have the capacity to grasp the very concept and understand this topic? Sure, it makes for some great conversation, but it makes me think of a bunch of people sitting around a campfire, passing a big doobie and staring off into the night sky filled with stars and muttering,"whoaaaa" in that Keanu Reeves annoying voice

I do recognize familiar names in a lot of these threads, and even though many don't hold the same viewpoint, it's obvious topics such as these are deemed important enough to discuss.

 

[SendTrash]

the unmoved mover

 

[Pyro]

<< Isn't there a thread on this, like, every week?

My god guys, take Astronomy 101 or somethin', it'll answer a lot of questions you have. I just got done with Astronomy in High School and it answered all my questions. And it just reinforced my disbelief in god. >>



or read A Brief History of Time. If more people bothered to read it, it would eliminate 98% of dumbasses in these threads.




Let me tell you something. What existed before the Big Bang is of no consequence. In a singularity, the density of matter is infinite (yes, a hard concept to understand, but it certainly seems that these singularities exist), and becuase of this all laws of physics break down and time actually stops existing. Time itself started at the big bang. Whatever happened before that cannot affect the current universe. Get it?

Like someone said, there is a theory of an 'oscillitating' universe, where a big bang occurs, universe expands, but gravity then brings matter togerther and there is a big crunch, followed by a big bang etc etc. Of course, that can never be proven, only theorized.

 

[Jeffwo]

It's really not that hard to understand. Hey, read the book. What's it say?

IN THE BEGINNING GOD........

 

[Jeffwo]

<<

<< It's really not that hard to understand. Hey, read the book. What's it say? >>

Once upon a time... >>





LOL....Verrry cute.

That's how peeps are, when they don't have anything of their own to say, they just mock someone who does!

 

[nomahe]

<< That's how peeps are, when they don't have anything of their own to say, they just mock someone who does! >>


I believe he was going to tell us a story until you interrupted him.

 

[iamfried]

<< Like someone said, there is a theory of an 'oscillitating' universe, where a big bang occurs, universe expands, but gravity then brings matter togerther and there is a big crunch, followed by a big bang etc etc. Of course, that can never be proven, only theorized. >>



Well, scientists do know that if there is atleast 3 atoms/m^3 throughout the universe, the universe will in fact collapse. (gravity like you said) They also know that the expansion of the universe is slowing because the things further away from us are going slower than the things closer to us. What's this mean, you may ask???
How the hell should I know?
<edit>Left incorrect to show my mistake. </edit>

 

[Jeffwo]

<<

<< Like someone said, there is a theory of an 'oscillitating' universe, where a big bang occurs, universe expands, but gravity then brings matter togerther and there is a big crunch, followed by a big bang etc etc. Of course, that can never be proven, only theorized. >>



Well, scientists do know that if there is atleast 3 atoms/m^3 throughout the universe, the universe will in fact collapse. (gravity like you said) They also know that the expansion of the universe is slowing because the things further away from us are going slower than the things closer to us. What's this mean, you may ask???
How the hell should I know? >>








Well put, grasshopper.

 

[Pyro]

They dont actually know if it will collapse. Scientists can't acurately measure the total amount of matter in the universe. Whether the universe will collapse, continue exapanding in an asymptote like say (slowing down and almost stoping) or continue expanding until it runs out of energy, no one can say

 

[iamfried]

Pyro, last I will say on this. I didn't say they know it will. I said,


<< if there is atleast 3 atoms/m^3 throughout the universe, the universe will in fact collapse >>


You are right, we don't know how much matter is out there and until we do, we won't know. There is a pretty good &quot;proof&quot; right next to me though that does state that if we have atleast 3 atoms/m^3 it will collapse.

 

[josphstalinator]

Since we have existence now, evidenced by the undenialbe tenet &quot;I think, therefore I am&quot;, we know that SOMETHING must alwyas have existed. It follows from cause-and-effect. There must have been SOMETHING that was uncaused i.e. uncreated, or our chain of cause-and-effect would extend backwards infinitely.

But an acutal infinite is impossible. And given that the universe is expanding, it must have had a finite beginning, or it would have expanded infinitely by now. Since it had a begninning, it had a Beginner.

Existence, let alone self-aware intelligence, screams out for the existence of God.

that SOMETHING is matter and all that exists now in all of space is a result of this matter interacting with itself, and this interaction is governed by the laws of physics.

why does matter exist? dunno, it just does. and it seems as if you use that same answer to explain god &quot;god exists cause he does&quot; which in reality isnt an answer at all.

the problem w/ religion is that it comes and goes. take greek mythology for example. we today view it as a myth but ancient greeks believed it just as modern christians believe christianity.

religion also evolves. it used to be that god created earth and the earth was the center of the universe, but now its just god created the earth.

 

[josphstalinator]

scientists arent sure if the univers expands forever or if it will eventually collapse on itself and start the process over creating a perfect 100% efficient cycle. so saying that the univers has a finite begining based on the bing bang theory is incorrect.

 

[Pyro]

<< Pyro, last I will say on this. I didn't say they know it will. I said,


<< if there is atleast 3 atoms/m^3 throughout the universe, the universe will in fact collapse >>


You are right, we don't know how much matter is out there and until we do, we won't know. There is a pretty good &quot;proof&quot; right next to me though that does state that if we have atleast 3 atoms/m^3 it will collapse. >>



sorry, must've misread...

 

[MereMortal]

iamfried wrote:
<<They also know that the expansion of the universe is slowing because the things further away from us are going slower than the things closer to us.>>

Want to try again? You might want to consider something called Hubble's Law.

 

[Quaggoth]

HipnoticTranz

That's probably half of the reason they teach it.....

 

[Retro2001]

Simply because one cannot explain or grasp something is not proof that there is a more tangable answer to the idea. For example, I do not fully understand how my TV converts radiowaves into an image and sound. However, because I do not understand I do not belive that there is an elf in my TV painting the screen. This is a very simplified example but I think that it applies. I cannot fully explain how our universe came into existance, but this is not proof that there must be a more tangable solution (ie. God said...).

Also, on a side note, in Chistian theology, who created the light? Genesis says &quot;God said, 'Let there be light'&quot;. The book does not specify exactly who did the creating. Just curious.

Will

 

[KrispyKremer]

<< Also, on a side note, in Chistian theology, who created the light? Genesis says &quot;God said, 'Let there be light'&quot;. >>


Why, the little elf in your tv, silly

You can't have a watch without a watchmaker.

Do some truly feel that just by some chance/luck/coincidence we all just happened to form by chemical compositions over billions of years.... *POOF* make it so?

The probability of it happening in this manner - by chance/coincidence is so abysmally rare as to disregard as a possibility. Things happen for a reason, folks. Of course, I may not understand that reason.

 

[iamfried]

I don't remember being rude and offensive to anyone, why the outlash?:Q
I did misspeak though to your credit. I had them backwards.
At any rate, the most distant galaxies are moving faster (this is where I had my head up my a$$) then Hubble's Constant and hence the theory that the expansion is slowing.

 

[KrispyKremer]

The farther out in space we are able to view, supposedly the farther back in time we're seeing...

Is this inversely proportional to the following?

In something like a black hole, matter becomes more dense and once it reaches a singularity, infinitely dense (like some of us on these boards and thus no time, no space.



We weave ourselves through time in the tapestry that is life.
Ugh, I need some sleep...

 

[MereMortal]

I'm sorry, iamfried, I carried my anger from another thread over here, and was undeservedly rude to you. My apologies.


Current evidence implies that the expansion is actually accelerating.

 

[RossGr]

<< The probability of it happening in this manner - by chance/coincidence is so abysmally rare as to disregard as a possibility. Things happen for a reason, folks. Of course, I may not understand that reason. >>



Are you guessing or do you know the propability, I do not. Some how, because it seems unlikely, does not seem sufficient reason to create an even more unlikely the scenario, the existance of a god. Is there some metaPhysical force (god?) acting, which some how creates life? Maybe, if so, that force will be universal, Therefore the universe should be absolutly filled with life. If life, on the other hand, is a mere happenstance, a lucky bolt of lighting hitting a unique molecular formation, does not that make it even more precious and wonderful then if some god makes it happen. Perhaps this is why so many religions seem to place such a small value on life. While most scientists dedicate their lifes to improving conditions for mankind.

 

[iamfried]

Well said RossGr.
I myself am a Creationist, always will be. Don't need to know why, how, when, or where, I just know.
I do believe in the big bang though. Don't need to know why, how, when, or where, I just do.
And dinosaurs too.

 

[KrispyKremer]

<< Perhaps this is why so many religions seem to place such a small value on life >>


Some may not, but this is definately not the case with all of them. In fact, seems the central focus on one particular religion is love, which would seem to put a very high value on life and what we do with it.

Life is a gift from God, and what we do with it is our gift to God.