Originally posted by: McCarthy
Internet's getting to be like trying to read an an owner's manual printed in between the decals on the side of the #29 GM Goodwrench, AC Delco, Snap-On, Sonic, Goodyear, NASCAR Winston Cup Chevrolet Monte Carlo. ***This post sponsored by Hormel Food Corporation.***
Originally posted by: ness1469
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Originally posted by: Moralpanic
Wow, talk about whining. Subscribe if you don't like the banner ads. It's only $2.50 a month... the cost of a cup of coffee.
I guess I need to spell this out for YOU.....
Subscribers give money directly to anandtech. Non-subscribers pay anandtech's bill also. No one would put ads on the site if there were not any non-subscribers. By putting these ads on the left, Anandtech is going to run off non-subscribers.
On top of that, why should I be forced to subscribe?? The ads make the forum nasty to use. I am not going to pay anandtech because they forced me into that situation. I don't need or want any of the subscriber features. I can deal with looking at ads when they don't interfere with the forum. I don't feel a need to pay for something because anandtech did something stupid.
Besides, once you get past the first two or 3 posts the ads end.
Stop getting all furious over this is deal with it. All of you have gotten some benefit from this place for no charge, and it's all adding up on the bills.
I didn't read 80% of these posts because I got sick of people whinning. I have no problem at all with the ads. They sit to the left of my screen and don't harm my reading at all. Maybe some of you people just have your favorites open with it stretched halfway across your screen or something.
Get over it. It is Anand's message board, and what he wants done will be done. He lets everyone in free of charge, and some of you (looking in FS/FT and HD) are making/saving money from it. Not to mention the great amounts of help that we all get from each other.
How you can say that it's unfair for them to put ads up here is beyond me. When you start paying the bills, then you can dictate how it goes. When you put your money foward to support this place, then you have the right to complain... oh wait, I believe they call that subscribing....
So why should you subscribe? The ads aren't forcing people to subscribe. The ads aren't driving away users, the ads are just giving the people who think that 100 pixels of width is too much a reason to complain. By subscribing, you are helping pay server bills, which on a site this large I'm sure are quite costly. Don't want to subscribe? That's fine. You can deal with the ads then. The revenue they generate will help bridge the gap in the bills. Sorry guys, but there is no such thing as a free lunch. The internet is no longer a place of profit for webmasters unless they are selling something, and you should all thank AT for not trashing the site to save money.
Originally posted by: jmagg
That ad is not going to piss off very many people, or cause them to not use this forum.
Just a few.
Originally posted by: jmagg
That ad is not going to piss off very many people, or cause them to not use this forum.
Just a few.
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Story number 1:
Sorry about the additional banners. We are experimenting as google no longer allows us to put their banner on the bottom of the page. We are doing our best to minimize banners.
It was suggested that we move it to the right side of the screen of to the top.
Story number 2:
Google no longer pays for banners that are "below the fold". This just means they do not give us any credit for banners that can be seen only by scrolling down. Unfortunately, this is a HUGE problem. The forums and site cost an extrodinary amount of money to maintain, and we have to take action in order to pay for bandwidth.
He obviously ignored the suggestions to move it to the right or the top.
Story number 3:
1.) We cannot move this banner to the top because there are already banners there. Yes it would be nice to not need additional banners but we do need to pay for the bandwidth. Some members were correct in saying we are probably not able to move the banner to the right side. This does not mean we are bending to the will of a certain advertiser. Perhaps you have seen other websites and how they are dealing with plummeting click through rates and advertising prices.
Wow another story. Why can't they move it to the right? He said they probably can't? I guess I will have to wait until he can pull some other BS out of his butt. The crap about why they can't move it to the top is just BS. They sure as hell can MAKE space at the top if they wanted to make people happy with the situation.
The best quote from this guy:
you aren't giving your 30 dollars to AT to pay for bandwidth (subscription), and you aren?t viewing the banners, we have no way to generate money for the bandwidth. Eventually, we will run out of money and the site will go under
Well guess what? By pissing off all the people with the ad on the left do you not think most people won't just block it?
Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Originally posted by: Codewiz
Story number 1:
Sorry about the additional banners. We are experimenting as google no longer allows us to put their banner on the bottom of the page. We are doing our best to minimize banners.
It was suggested that we move it to the right side of the screen of to the top.
Story number 2:
Google no longer pays for banners that are "below the fold". This just means they do not give us any credit for banners that can be seen only by scrolling down. Unfortunately, this is a HUGE problem. The forums and site cost an extrodinary amount of money to maintain, and we have to take action in order to pay for bandwidth.
He obviously ignored the suggestions to move it to the right or the top.
You see that as ignoring the suggestion. I see it as explaining exactly what Google is requiring for their ads, and for whatever reason not addressing whether it can be placed on the right. No malice or intentional disregard for the suggestion is obvious.
Story number 3:
1.) We cannot move this banner to the top because there are already banners there. Yes it would be nice to not need additional banners but we do need to pay for the bandwidth. Some members were correct in saying we are probably not able to move the banner to the right side. This does not mean we are bending to the will of a certain advertiser. Perhaps you have seen other websites and how they are dealing with plummeting click through rates and advertising prices.
Wow another story. Why can't they move it to the right? He said they probably can't? I guess I will have to wait until he can pull some other BS out of his butt. The crap about why they can't move it to the top is just BS. They sure as hell can MAKE space at the top if they wanted to make people happy with the situation.
Not another story. An addressing of the suggestion of moving it to the right, which you complained about not getting before. And AT Deals didn't say "probably". S/he said members were correct when THEY said they probably couldn't be moved. I.e, a member said "they probably can't move it" and that was a correct statement, s/he is right that they can't be moved.
It is of course your opinion that it's crap that they can't move it to the top, but you're not the one who decides what layout is allowed for the site, are you? They could make room at the top, yes, they could reformat the page. That doesn't mean the ones that decide that will allow it to be done. It's not necessarily the fault of AT Deals that it isn't where you want it.
The best quote from this guy:
you aren't giving your 30 dollars to AT to pay for bandwidth (subscription), and you aren?t viewing the banners, we have no way to generate money for the bandwidth. Eventually, we will run out of money and the site will go under
Well guess what? By pissing off all the people with the ad on the left do you not think most people won't just block it?
Maybe they know it, maybe they don't. Block the ads, leave, don't click, whatever you choose to do in protest. If it results in problems paying for it, they will hopefully come to realize that it's just as much of an issue as you think it is and change it. They know there's resentment, they couldn't possibly not know after 360+ posts about it. They currently feel they need to keep the ads where they are, either permanently, or for testing purposes, or because they needed to put them somewhere that complied with Google's requirements until they're able to think up some other solution. As I've mentioned, putting them on the right side is probably NOT acceptable to Google, so I really don't understand why people keep saying to do that. And yes putting them at the top is possible, but they've chosen to not do that.
By coming back over and over and over to discuss it, you obviously haven't been driven off by the horror of ads on the left side. If you've blocked them entirely, good for you, you're using the tools available to you to show AT with actions how you feel, by depriving them of the ad revenue -- the power of the consumer to not consume, so that the provider of services sees that they need to change.
We obviously have vastly different interpretations of the "story" we've received explaining this. I feel that my interpretation takes the words as they are, while your interpretation starts from the perspective of expecting some malign purpose behind it all and reads the words in a way that reinforces that.
And yes, I do feel that people coming here and saying that they don't like the banners on the left, and suggesting possible solutions, is a good thing. The forums do need feedback of that type. I just don't think that multi-paragraph posts threatening to leave or boycott/block ads and going on and on about how horrible they are and how the admins just not care about the welfare of the site or the users is the way to get the administration to view your opinions as coherent. It just sounds like someone venting irrational anger, and something that will eventually go away.
Yeah the people it pisses off will just use software measures to remove the ad. That REALLY takes away revenue from Anandtech. That hurts AT more than if they just left IMO. They use the bandwidth and cut the ads out in another way.
I haven't removed the ad. I am waiting til this weekend. If the ad gets moved then I plan on sticking around. If not then I am going to head elsewhere. I am not going to stick around and remove the ad myself. I just feel that is wrong solution. Two wrongs don't make a right.
Originally posted by: oldsmoboat
This is far from the truth. I am not sure how you can afford that subscription considering what you must spend on knee pads.Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
I think I'm pretty well set here, out of well over 300 posts I'm pretty much the only one bothering to consider that there's any side to this besides "AT sucks and wants to make us miserable".
Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
Gee, sorry I can't remember the full content of all 360+ posts in this thread. But you specifically weren't really the target of the comment about leaving, it was a general reference to the many people who said that.
I just can't understand how a single ad is enough to completely destroy your ability to use the forums, yet everyone is capable of ignoring ads everywhere else they appear. People b!tched and complained when websites started getting more agressive with ads, too, and when they go too far there are still complaints, but people still use the websites.
I would put money down on this ad change not really affecting traffic on the forums. It might reduce the clickthrough rate since more people will be figuring out how to filter it, but I don't think it will result in the site failing because of it. I don't think it'll even change significantly enough to be obviously attributable to anything but normal variations, until the click rate stays down for a significant period.
I won't subscribe just to remove ads either, at least not 30 dollars a year for it. I've always been against the subscription system here, for all the reasons everyone has mentioned. But that doesn't mean I'm going to leave the site because they need to place the ads in a more visible area. The ad placement isn't that significant, it's FAR FAR more acceptable than the ads at most sites, and absolutely better even than the ad content on the main site.
Originally posted by: Lord Evermore
I don't get what the smilies are about, unless you can't think of anything intelligent.
Anand never responds to any issues with the forums anymore. I don't really think he cares as long as the hits continue.
03/17/03 in FIOriginally posted by: Lord Evermore
I haven't seen anything from Anand directly in the forums for a long long time. I started thinking a long time ago that he didn't really care about the place.
Originally posted by: Codewiz
OK I am sick of fvcknuts that can't read. If you can't read the whole thread and understand the problem then don't FVCKING POST.
You aren't worth my time.
For the last time...
Subscribers help pay the bills.
Non-subscribers help pay the bills.
You don't want to piss off EITHER group. They are both valuable. Pissing off non-subscribers by not placing the ads at the top is the problem.
There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that has been put forth that validates NEEDING the ads on the left side of the screen.
Originally posted by: ness1469
Originally posted by: Codewiz
OK I am sick of fvcknuts that can't read. If you can't read the whole thread and understand the problem then don't FVCKING POST.
You aren't worth my time.
For the last time...
Subscribers help pay the bills.
Non-subscribers help pay the bills.
You don't want to piss off EITHER group. They are both valuable. Pissing off non-subscribers by not placing the ads at the top is the problem.
There is NO REASON WHATSOEVER that has been put forth that validates NEEDING the ads on the left side of the screen.
You are WRONG. Yes, they both help pay the bills, but subscribers GARUNTEE money, while non-subscribers only hold the POSSIBILITY of making money. I mean, we're talking about making FRACTIONS of a CENT for one click-through. I seriously doubt that every non-subscriber is going to generate 2.50 in click-throughs a month. So this brings me back to what I said. If you don't want to put forth your money, then you have no right to tell the staff how to run things. Which brings me right to my next point... if the ads were totally OUT OF THE WAY...then no one is going to click them, and AT won't make any money for having them here. DUH. Think about it. Do you really thing they are going to put them where you won't notice them? And clearly, by the response to this thread, people have noticed them. It's not about trying to make people happy, because people are going to come no matter what. All of the people that said they are leaving because of these ads have probably posted since then. So if you don't like the fact that Anand is trying to pay his bills by using sucessful marketing and business strategies, then you should get rid of your TV, radio, phone, refuse all mail and never step out of your house because if you do any of these things, you see advertisements. If you put up this much of a stink over 100 pixels, then I'd hate to see what you do when you see a billboard or commercial on TV.
If I'm not worth your time, then why don't you stop whining and do something more productive than arguing a point that has no claim. For crying out loud, it's 100 pixels you are bitching about! If you don't like it then you have no choice but to deal with it or leave. Personally, I PREFER the ads on the left, because when I don't stop to look at the usernames for posts, it doesn't get in the way. Putting the ads on the right would just make the posts look boxed in.
Get over it and deal with it, because it isn't going to change.