**OLD THREAD** League of Legends - F2P MOBA (like DOTA)

[ivan2]

i always use the HP regen mastery from the defensive tree. I run everyone without HP regen and had taken ez to mid starting with a mana rod. risky but works ok for me

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

Does the unique even double up on 2 IE's? I figured they didnt and wondered if the guy had any idea that they didnt.

Nothing unique ever stacks.

 

[zebano]

Nothing unique ever stacks.

see my earlier reply you can stack auras twice (once from you, once from someone else)

 

[Obsoleet]

I imagine he's buying HP pots for regen.

Starting item is Doran's shield. I'll go back to buy boots and a couple wards at 6. Then it's save up for BF Sword.

i always use the HP regen mastery from the defensive tree. I run everyone without HP regen and had taken ez to mid starting with a mana rod. risky but works ok for me

TY.. very informative.
I'm actually posting some questions directly from my friend to ask you guys.. such as how to stay in lane with no mana regen. Not really my question per se.
Regarding the talk on Ashe KSing.. I dont mind because she is a late-game carry. But, if she's not using it for initiating stuns, or to help her teammates escape, and ONLY saving it for KSing, then it's a bad Ashe. KSing is acceptable for late game carries though, period. Honestly though, it moves to slow anyway and isn't easy to hit or use as a KS tool regardless.

With my Anivia build, I don't really have a mana problem. I use clarity and first item is ArchStaff, and late game when pickup Golem frequently which allows for non-stop glacial storms. I use this as intimidation as much as anything. While defending our last mid tower last night I use it to kill all the minions (stopping the opposite team from being able to attack my champs), and if they ever try to advance I toss it where they're coming in the base and that usually scares them (I run a mostly pure AP build and can 1v1 pretty well).
We played the same team twice last night winning both games. Garen and me got pushed out of our lane at top, everyone else pretty much got pushed out and mid got pushed hard. We sat at base just like that for a while, but with no minions hitting our tower ever they had no real hope even tho they were slightly fed.

So I used my stun + storm and we eventually killed 4 of them and got their 1st mid tower and they surrendered. I noticed after the game the 2 guys in our lane were lvl30s, and decent players (I missed too many stuns or we'd pushed them out IMO).

Sometimes when trying to get into their base I'll put the storm down on the side of the tower where most of them are sitting, then we'll all bum rush the other side of the tower buying us a little bit of time, allowing me to hit my double damage icepick, and stunning one or two as they are bunched up.

I've been having decent success going manamune, boots (one of the defensive or swiftness if I don't need either), then zeal then infinity edge, then other stuff to give more damage (game is usually ending around this point). Two infinity edges isn't really a good idea.

Edit oh atma's impaler after IE. If the game hasn't ended after getting IE you're going to have a ton of health from enrage.

So Manamun>Boots of Swiftness>Zeal>IE>Atma's. TY I'm going to try this. I find many people simply run from me, and they get away with it because he's so slow. Or stun me, which I keep Cleanse for. He does have potential though if built right as DPS/Tank.

If your going to play pure dps, you would be better served by Olaf. Plus Sion suffers from a low mana pool and he has a really crappy attack speed to boot. Even with boots and his ult you might be around 1.2 aspd if your lucky. Sion has right around 600ish mana at 18, so thats basically enough for 2 stuns, 2 shields and your ult and then you'll need to blue pill to get any mana back, since with no mana regen it'll be awhile before you can cast anything else.

With crappy ASPD and no frozen mallet to slow you'll get in one hit after a stun, and then they'll flash and run (or just run) and you'll be SoL, since your stun has a shorter range than flash.

You're def right. That is a crappy build. I'm starting to see based on your points, where Sion is not that great overall... simply unspectacular in all areas.

edit to add- Yeah, that's why I started to use the debuff spell with Sion. Some games I don't deal with as many stuns, but it's stopped me from killing 1v1 without it before (WW for example). I went looking for DPS builds like that cuz I wanted to find a DPS Tank. He seems to fit the build but ya, unspectacular.

 

[Obsoleet]

dp

 

[crownjules]

TY.. very informative.
I'm actually posting some questions directly from my friend to ask you guys.. such as how to stay in lane with no mana regen.

A full set of mana regen runes (seals) and the appropriate masteries will give you all the mana regen you need for Ashe. Volley isn't on a short enough cooldown until rank 4-5 to run you out of mana before that unless you're also doing some heavy harassing with Frost Arrow.

 

[Obsoleet]

I've been having decent success going manamune, boots (one of the defensive or swiftness if I don't need either), then zeal then infinity edge, then other stuff to give more damage (game is usually ending around this point). Two infinity edges isn't really a good idea.

Edit oh atma's impaler after IE. If the game hasn't ended after getting IE you're going to have a ton of health from enrage.

I like this build, but IE takes forever to get. I ended up doing Manamune>Berzerker's Boots>Zeal>Infinity Edge>Atma's Impaler. I think a chill/slow item between Zeal and IE would be appropriate, any recommendations?

edit- Tried a Phage inbetween the Zeal and IE, didn't really help as much as I'd hoped as we were in their base by that time. Also looked at the Frozen Mallet but it's too expensive.. I think in a chase the Phage would do what I was looking for.
Next game I'm going to try Manamune>Berzerker's Boots>Phage>Zeal>IE>Atma's. I'm not too into the idea of starting with Manamune, but it does solve his low mana problem nicely all game.

edit2- Meh, not sure I'm a huge fan of adding the Phage/FM. By late game there's not a ton of epic chases going on and my flash spell does that as well as it does escapes.

 

[LurkerPrime]

You're def right. That is a crappy build. I'm starting to see based on your points, where Sion is not that great overall... simply unspectacular in all areas.

edit to add- Yeah, that's why I started to use the debuff spell with Sion. Some games I don't deal with as many stuns, but it's stopped me from killing 1v1 without it before (WW for example). I went looking for DPS builds like that cuz I wanted to find a DPS Tank. He seems to fit the build but ya, unspectacular.

I wouldn't say that Sion isn't that great overall, its just he doesn't fit as well into a pure DPS build as other characters do. He makes a much better tank(with some dps) or hit and run mage with his great AP ratios.

Face it, as a tank your job isn't to be able to solo the dps carries 1v1, its to be able to survive and keep them off your carries (with a stun) and then assist while your carries do thier jobs.

CC makes a big difference in games. Lane Sion with someone else that has a good stun early game (taric or ryze for example) and getting a few kills before the end of the laning phase is cake.

 

[zebano]

.....I dont mind because she is a late-game carry. But, if she's not using it for initiating stuns, or to help her teammates escape, and ONLY saving it for KSing, then it's a bad Ashe. KSing is acceptable for late game carries though, period. Honestly though, it moves to slow anyway and isn't easy to hit or use as a KS tool regardless.

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong again. This is a team game, there is no such thing as KSing. Consider all the escape tools in the game, ghost, flash, cleanse, QuickSilver sash, Ghostblade, Rocket jump, Trynd ult, spinning slash, all the heals, all the CC, , rocket jump, Zilean ult, Guardian angel, Kayle ult, Gragas Dash, Ezs' flash, black shield, etc. etc. etc. hell, fortify might even qualify in th eright circumstance.

Now consider that if they don't KS, your team may not get an assist and thus gets 33% less gold in total!!!! That's terrible. There is no reason ever to not help because you might KS. Towers and dragon are such great things to destroy also because your entire team gets gold. This is a team game, and team objectives trump letting an individual get a kill whether or not they've done most of the damage.

 

[zebano]

I didn't get a chance to play yesterday but I'm willing to bet Irelia is OP, just because they realize that most melee is UP right now and they went overboard trying to fix it.

That said, the new item looks sweet, +35 AD, +30MR and a spell shield if your health gets low for about the cost of a BF sword. Unfortunately this is probably just more love for the ranged AD carries though I could see it helping melee out.

I do have to poitn out to humble that his favorite (already OP) item just got cheaper. They lowered the cost and upped the AS on SotD!!!!

 

[crownjules]

Anyone play the new champ Irelia yet? From the champion spotlight, it seemed like she had huge potential to be OP. I was reading on other forums that people are building her with straight ASPD rune pages. But her abilities are just, well ridiculous: built in CC reduction for teamfights as a passive (that does stack, though not additive, with Merc Treads), a true damage buff, a slow or stun, a self-heal, and an offensive blink.

 

[darkewaffle]

I only played against one and with one last night (Irelia) and neither were very good. My friends tell me shes pretty overpowered if played decently but I haven't seen it yet.

She does jungle very well though, and with only boots and a Madreds Razor at mid level she heals herself for almost 30 every auto attack. Or so I saw, pretty sure there wasn't a Sterks or anything around.

 

[v8envy]

Played against 2. One was functioning pretty much as an at-relese Xin, and feasting on the slow and the squishy. The other one was food.

Overall, I'd say fairly balanced. Definitely much better than the garbage tier and a solid candidate for one of the top tiers, IMO.

 

[Obsoleet]

Wrong wrong wrong wrong wrong and wrong again. This is a team game, there is no such thing as KSing. Consider all the escape tools in the game, ghost, flash, cleanse, QuickSilver sash, Ghostblade, Rocket jump, Trynd ult, spinning slash, all the heals, all the CC, , rocket jump, Zilean ult, Guardian angel, Kayle ult, Gragas Dash, Ezs' flash, black shield, etc. etc. etc. hell, fortify might even qualify in th eright circumstance.

Now consider that if they don't KS, your team may not get an assist and thus gets 33% less gold in total!!!! That's terrible. There is no reason ever to not help because you might KS. Towers and dragon are such great things to destroy also because your entire team gets gold. This is a team game, and team objectives trump letting an individual get a kill whether or not they've done most of the damage.

WrOnG wRong WRong?!!!(!)!(!)? Where do we disagree? Semantics? Whether you prefer the word KS in your vocab or not, any extra kill by a late game carry is never wrong.

Of course we agree it's a team game and kills should always be sought for in all cases, you're merely stating the obvious. If a late game carry "takes" your kill, then don't complain, it's for the best. I never stated that you should not help in any fight. I'm addressing statements being made against Ashe final hitting.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I like this build, but IE takes forever to get. I ended up doing Manamune>Berzerker's Boots>Zeal>Infinity Edge>Atma's Impaler. I think a chill/slow item between Zeal and IE would be appropriate, any recommendations?

Without some hefty attack speed, phage just isn't going to be reliable enough on Sion, and you're already complaining that IE takes too long so it's not good to be adding stuff without taking stuff away. If you want IE faster, You can substitute manamune for a chalice + mana regen runes and it'll help a ton although it won't be near infinite like with manamune and you won't get the attack power manamune gives. I'd advise against zerker boots. They're just really not great; most people consider them a sign of someone being a nub like old malady.

Have to rely on stun + ultimate +running people down with better move speed to wreck people, which once you have IE you pretty much will vs carries.

 

[zebano]

WrOnG wRong WRong?!!!(!)!(!)? Where do we disagree? Semantics? Whether you prefer the word KS in your vocab or not, any extra kill by a late game carry is never wrong.

Of course we agree it's a team game and kills should always be sought for in all cases, you're merely stating the obvious. If a late game carry "takes" your kill, then don't complain, it's for the best. I never stated that you should not help in any fight. I'm addressing statements being made against Ashe final hitting.

I disagree because the concept of KSing should not even exist. There is no such thing as taking a kill and one should never complain about that.

DotA is slightly different in that late game carries can wipe an entire team if fed. That simply isn't true (by design) in LoL. Sure it is preferred that a carry get a kill (especially compared to a tank or support) but it is not worth arguing or not helping out in a gank because of it.

I may have over-reacted to your statement, rereading it it doesn't say quite what I thought it said, I apologize. I do agree that an Ashe that only last hits with arrow is a bad Ashe.

 

[Obsoleet]

I'm in agreement the KS concept in this team game is silly. As you said, there are definitely too many escapes to not always try to last hit. I was just trying to stay in context of the convo the guys were having on the subject of Ashe. I never complain about it either, but in a perfect world I prefer my Ashe allies purposefully seek out last hits (checking the map, shooting her ult while I'm in a battle or the enemy is low on HP and tanking a turret). Then again, I don't play with scrub Ashe players, only ones I know personally.
I play with an Ashe all the time, and when laning I let her last hit all minions and whoever gets the champ kills gets them. I farm mid to late game with my AOE when she's on the other side of the map and wouldn't get to the minions in time to matter anyway. By late game, my friend who plays Ashe is saving my ***, 3 shotting people like she's got a Benelli Automatic shotgun.

A great example of escapes was a game 2 days ago, 3 or all 4 of my teammates were running from a Morde and others, I was heading from base, they were in jungle, I icewalled Morde off from them, put the blizzard on him, and we started pegging him thru the wall. He died, and my team rallied behind me and we wiped the rest of their team. Obviously, any chance of the last hitting anyone on my team (I do prefer that over "KS" as well) they didn't take advantage of would be pretty absurd. They surrendered right after.

Just hit lvl22 last night and filled out my utility branch, nice feeling to have those cooldown reductions.

 

[alkemyst]

I think those talking KS are talking about fighting with a teammate off in the jungle or in the background doing nothing until they die and the teammate rushes in to finish the opposer off. It's like those that end up with 19/0/2 at the end of a game with all other with mid single digit deaths.

 

[Obsoleet]

I think those talking KS are talking about fighting with a teammate off in the jungle or in the background doing nothing until they die and the teammate rushes in to finish the opposer off. It's like those that end up with 19/0/2 at the end of a game with all other with mid single digit deaths.

I also hate that, but honestly when I do what you said alkemyst, I feel it's due to my own stupidity being too far off by myself without any backup nearby. I'm frustrated because I feel people should be coming to me sooner, but you cant rely on that without using microphones.

I don't put much credence into KDR in this game. Yeah, those who play DPS and are supported by a great team think they are the only ones who do anything (in a win or loss), but honestly, I've won a ton of games that I shouldn't have simply because I play Anivia. My KDR is positive, but in no way does it reflect the clinch moments I save people from deaths, tons of assists and general CC. I enjoy being support, I just don't enjoy being the healing b**** who has no other fun abilities.

Without some hefty attack speed, phage just isn't going to be reliable enough on Sion, and you're already complaining that IE takes too long so it's not good to be adding stuff without taking stuff away. If you want IE faster, You can substitute manamune for a chalice + mana regen runes and it'll help a ton although it won't be near infinite like with manamune and you won't get the attack power manamune gives. I'd advise against zerker boots. They're just really not great; most people consider them a sign of someone being a nub like old malady.

Have to rely on stun + ultimate +running people down with better move speed to wreck people, which once you have IE you pretty much will vs carries.

I'm going to try to follow your advice. I really want to keep trying Sion but I simply add little to the team so far. I've seen people play Kassadin, ChoGath and Sion with amazing results and I want to use one of these champs as an alt and do the same. Just new to the whole genre honestly. My friend who plays Ashe has hundreds (or more) HON games under his belt. I'm still a noob really IMO even tho I have many epic games. I only played DOTA once, and I'm only at 93 wins and 2100 takedowns so far in LoL.
I am using Cleanse + Flash with Sion is this what you use? I find myself stunned all the time with him. I think I'll go with boots of swiftness or the stun reduction boots next time. I didn't know Berzerkers were ill-regarded, the attack speed increase looked tempting for him.
And what do you think about Sheen>MercuryTreads>Atma's>Guardian?
The more I'm playing Sion the less impressed I am other than hit ult and his shield. But his mana pool takes a big item to make up for it, and his attack speed is so slow.

edit3- Meh, I'm writing Sion off. He's not a tank, not great DPS, low mana pool, hits slow. Needs items and farming to get his HP up but no one's going to let stupid Sion farm and let others not. I like the fact he can basically heal himself. He was critting for 570 and critting very often by the end of game with IE but there are just better heroes out there IMO. Maybe as a jungler he'd be decent at ganks. People just run away from you tho. He's no Anivia by even the longest stretch. I have yet to face a Sion that as Anivia I can't destroy due to his lack of range. He also provides little to the team. If I'm wrong on these conclusions plz let me know, before he's taken off rotation.

 

[alkemyst]

yeah it sucks when I pull crowstorm, get them down to a smidge and die; only to have some dude just sitting there still waiting for backup while he is full health/mana.

 

[Obsoleet]

I lied about Sion. I tried an AP build and didn't have an amazing score as I'm perfecting the art, but it was a huge improvement. AmpTome>Sheen>Soulstealer>Boots of Swiftness>Zhonyas>Abyssal>Triforce was hella amazing. It's all about his shield and the Sheen. Ran Ignite and Flash. First time I had people running from me as soon as I jumped out of the grass.

 

[AyashiKaibutsu]

I'm going to try to follow your advice. I really want to keep trying Sion but I simply add little to the team so far. I've seen people play Kassadin, ChoGath and Sion with amazing results and I want to use one of these champs as an alt and do the same. Just new to the whole genre honestly. My friend who plays Ashe has hundreds (or more) HON games under his belt. I'm still a noob really IMO even tho I have many epic games. I only played DOTA once, and I'm only at 93 wins and 2100 takedowns so far in LoL.
I am using Cleanse + Flash with Sion is this what you use? I find myself stunned all the time with him. I think I'll go with boots of swiftness or the stun reduction boots next time. I didn't know Berzerkers were ill-regarded, the attack speed increase looked tempting for him.
And what do you think about Sheen>MercuryTreads>Atma's>Guardian?
The more I'm playing Sion the less impressed I am other than hit ult and his shield. But his mana pool takes a big item to make up for it, and his attack speed is so slow.

edit3- Meh, I'm writing Sion off. He's not a tank, not great DPS, low mana pool, hits slow. Needs items and farming to get his HP up but no one's going to let stupid Sion farm and let others not. I like the fact he can basically heal himself. He was critting for 570 and critting very often by the end of game with IE but there are just better heroes out there IMO. Maybe as a jungler he'd be decent at ganks. People just run away from you tho. He's no Anivia by even the longest stretch. I have yet to face a Sion that as Anivia I can't destroy due to his lack of range. He also provides little to the team. If I'm wrong on these conclusions plz let me know, before he's taken off rotation.

He provides a strong CC, good damage, AoE heal, the ability to make squishes stay at the edges of a team battle, and he has the best scaling of any characters in ultra long games.

Granted, he still isn't ultra good, but if you're playing him well he's an asset to the team. I usually take flash/exhaust, but really I probably should take cleanse/exhaust or flash. I only ever pick him when my team already has a tank + range carry and we don't have a ton of CC already.

Sion is pretty amazing at farming. You should be prioritizing leveling shield with Sion whether you're AD or AP; even with 0 AP his shield will bring most of the mobs to 1 hit range. I usually go shield/enrage/shield/stun/shield (ult/shield/enrage/stun as a priority order) . Might get stun sooner if a kill is looking likely. His attack speed really isn't that bad, and whenever it really matters you have your ultimate to make it quite good even.

I really don't like AP Sion. You give up a lot of his strengths to be able to do good burst once every 10 seconds or so, and while you start out strong AP gets to be weak as the game drags on.

 

[zebano]

I lied about Sion. I tried an AP build and didn't have an amazing score as I'm perfecting the art, but it was a huge improvement. AmpTome>Sheen>Soulstealer>Boots of Swiftness>Zhonyas>Abyssal>Triforce was hella amazing. It's all about his shield and the Sheen. Ran Ignite and Flash. First time I had people running from me as soon as I jumped out of the grass.

AP Sion is all about the sheen, but you should be building that into lichbane, not triforce. You basically want boots3, Lichbane, and appropriate AP items (abyssal if they have mages, void if they stack MR, CDR if you don't need anything DFG really adds to his combo and maxxing CDR lets him do his thing every 6 seconds instead of 10). It's not necessary buy I highly suggest flash + ghost on AP Sion. You want to be stunning/nuking the tanks and you need mobility to get into range since Sion has no natural movement abilities.

 

[Chiropteran]

I lied about Sion. I tried an AP build and didn't have an amazing score as I'm perfecting the art, but it was a huge improvement. AmpTome>Sheen>Soulstealer>Boots of Swiftness>Zhonyas>Abyssal>Triforce was hella amazing. It's all about his shield and the Sheen. Ran Ignite and Flash. First time I had people running from me as soon as I jumped out of the grass.

I'd go blue crystal as first item instead of tome. The extra ~20 dmg per stun with the tomb is barely noticeable, but the massive boost of sion's normally tiny mana pool helps a lot.

 

[zebano]

I'd go blue crystal as first item instead of tome. The extra ~20 dmg per stun with the tomb is barely noticeable, but the massive boost of sion's normally tiny mana pool helps a lot.

You actually have 3 options here.

1. Run both blue and yellow runes as MP5/lvl, start with tome, you will have enough mana
2. Run a standard caster page (CDR blue, MP5/lvl yellow, MPen red, health quints) buy the mana crystal.
3. Similar to 2 but go with D. Ring, I only do this when I have a 1v2 lane as the extra health can be very useful.