Older truck recommendations...

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Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
2000 F150 4 door ext cab 4x4
150k miles
5.4 Triton engine

Decent. Spark plug maintenance on that motor in that body is a royal PITA, and some of those motors have issues with ejecting the spark plug, along with the threads in the cylinder head, without warning. It is repairable, just a bit expensive and a huge hassle.

On the plus side we had a 4WD Expedition just like that we sold with 250k miles on it and never had a major drivetrain repair.

At about 3000 or 3200 be a nice deal.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,701
27
91
[EDIT] Didn't read the whole thread, whoops. Anyway, research what the repair is for a blown out plug and see how involved/costly it is. I know the dealerships get $500+ to replace plugs on the '04 and up 5.4's.

I'd stay away from the 1997-2003 F-150's with the 5.4. They had an issue with blowing spark plugs out of the heads. Apparently there weren't enough spark plug threads on the cylinder heads and the things would strip out and launch the plugs prompting Ford to re-design the cylinder heads for the 2004 and later models.

I just bought a 2006 F150 extended cab with the 5.4. These have their own spark plug issues as well. The plugs break off in the head due to carbon build up on the tips.

Fortunately Lisle makes a tool to remove the snapped off tips so you don't have to pull the heads. Just finished replacing mine last night. I started Monday night hoping I wouldn't need the tool. Broke two and the other 6 came out. Ordered the tool and it came yesterday so I was able to pull the snapped off tips out and get it all back together last night.
 
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mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
A little more research, and I discovered this little bit:
I'm not sure if there is any pattern to which one blows out. My dad had his number 7 blow out, summer time on a 200 mile trip where I was following him. Truck had the plugs in it from purchase, not knowing what they were torqued to. I think the general consensus is that it is due to the lack of threads in the head and the factory torque recommendations, regardless of who installed them, if anytiseize and 13-15ft/lbs or whatever it was were used... there was a chance they would come out. I have not heard of ANYONE who has used the now recommended no antiseize and 28ft/lbs and had one blow out.

Taken from: http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-engines/439232-5-4-spark-plug-blow-out.html

Having read through that, I would suspect if I bought it and replaced all plugs and torqued to 28ft/lbs, I'd be ok?

I dunno, I suppose I should pass. But if there is a simple fix, perhaps it'd be worth my time to just do it straight away if I did purchase it.
 

AMCRambler

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2001
7,701
27
91
A little more research, and I discovered this little bit:
I'm not sure if there is any pattern to which one blows out. My dad had his number 7 blow out, summer time on a 200 mile trip where I was following him. Truck had the plugs in it from purchase, not knowing what they were torqued to. I think the general consensus is that it is due to the lack of threads in the head and the factory torque recommendations, regardless of who installed them, if anytiseize and 13-15ft/lbs or whatever it was were used... there was a chance they would come out. I have not heard of ANYONE who has used the now recommended no antiseize and 28ft/lbs and had one blow out.

Taken from: http://www.f150online.com/forums/v8-engines/439232-5-4-spark-plug-blow-out.html

Having read through that, I would suspect if I bought it and replaced all plugs and torqued to 28ft/lbs, I'd be ok?

I dunno, I suppose I should pass. But if there is a simple fix, perhaps it'd be worth my time to just do it straight away if I did purchase it.

I really can't see how torquing the plugs to 28ftlbs is going to prevent them from popping out of the block. If the threads are weak and tend to shear, putting mor torque on the plug will just weaken them more I would think.

I guess it depends on the price of the truck. If its a good deal, then $500 to get a repair made wouldn't be the end of the world. If you're driving it long distances though, the potential for getting stuck somewhere for me wouldn't be worth it.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
I really can't see how torquing the plugs to 28ftlbs is going to prevent them from popping out of the block. If the threads are weak and tend to shear, putting mor torque on the plug will just weaken them more I would think.

I guess it depends on the price of the truck. If its a good deal, then $500 to get a repair made wouldn't be the end of the world. If you're driving it long distances though, the potential for getting stuck somewhere for me wouldn't be worth it.

Well, of the most part, this is going to be an A-B truck for trips to HomeDepot, furniture stores, dirt lots, etc. I seldom see it being used for long trips, though I suppose that could change in the future.

In calling and talking with my mechanic, the spark plug thing seemed to be a non-issue in his opinion. He's dealt with them, but it wasn't much of a problem.

I am trying to figure how big this issue would be compared to a transmission issue or similar. In other words, is this problem a bigger deal than a different problem I would find on a different vehicle. As it is only a $4k (pre-haggle) truck, I would have to expect problems to surface.

The way I am looking at this right now is that the insight you guys have given me may serve as a good notion for preventative maintenance. IE - If the truck sounds good, drives good, etc, I could buy it and then take it to my local Ford dealer and have it looked over and have the spark plugs replaced by them. Then, just make sure to have them replaced every 50-75k miles. Or perhaps have my mechanic do it. He's always been sure to let me know if something crops up with a repair they've done, they'll take care of me.

I guess the big question is, at $4k and the kind of shape it appears to be in, is this potential issue worth risking. From what I've read here: http://www.walleyecentral.com/forums/archive/index.php/t-159880.html and other places, it seems that aside from this particular issue, these engines commonly see 250k+ miles. Many comment on their F150s being bulletproof and that sort of thing.

The consensus on the torque idea seems to be that it only threads in 4 turns instead of the standard 8. The factory specs originally suggested 14ft/lbs of torque, but the problem with that is that it was just enough, and if someone didn't apply that amount, the plug would come loose, rattle about, and eventually blow off. By applying torque to 28ft/lbs, it does not come loose and thereby does not rattle about and blow off. Basically, if not torqued enough, eventually shock will cause it to break free and set freely in the threads (not tight). Apparently shock won't be enough to break the "seal" of higher torqued plugs. This is just hypothesis on my part, but it sounds like the threads of the hole are fine until the plug comes free and destroys them. Question 51 of this page (http://www.blownoutsparkplug.com/faqs.htm#Q: Why do you prefer 28-32 foot lbs torque instead of the factory specification) suggests what I've found. With original equipment, 10 Ford Master techs have concluded that 28ft/lbs is satisfactory, and have even gone so far as to apply 100ft/lbs without failure.

I guess at this point, I am still leaning towards taking a look at it. If the engine sounds quiet, then it should be safe to assume that a plug hasn't blown out.

Long story short, the information you've given me at least sets me down the path of investigating or doing something immediately upon taking ownership of the truck if that happens. As it is, with as many of them as I see driving about, I have to suspect that the problem isn't terrible, and most mechanics have figured it out and have some method of correcting it.
 

Sluggo

Lifer
Jun 12, 2000
15,488
5
81
Long story short, the information you've given me at least sets me down the path of investigating or doing something immediately upon taking ownership of the truck if that happens. As it is, with as many of them as I see driving about, I have to suspect that the problem isn't terrible, and most mechanics have figured it out and have some method of correcting it.

I wouldn't do that, especially if its a 2nd or 3rd vehicle. Just try to get as good of a deal as possible and be aware that the plug issue COULD happen, it may not ever happen, ours never did. Buy drive it until it dies and figure it still has value with a bad motor as a parts vehicle for somebody.

I sold my 99 Silverado 2WD with a serious motor knock and 280,000 miles on the drivetrain for $1500, there is always a salvage value for the vehicle, pick-ups seem to be a bit more than cars. Probably more guys trying to keep one on the road as a work vehicle.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
I wouldn't do that, especially if its a 2nd or 3rd vehicle. Just try to get as good of a deal as possible and be aware that the plug issue COULD happen, it may not ever happen, ours never did. Buy drive it until it dies and figure it still has value with a bad motor as a parts vehicle for somebody.

I sold my 99 Silverado 2WD with a serious motor knock and 280,000 miles on the drivetrain for $1500, there is always a salvage value for the vehicle, pick-ups seem to be a bit more than cars. Probably more guys trying to keep one on the road as a work vehicle.

Well, I did end up taking a look at the truck. Way too much rust in the door frame area. While it is only 4k, that is not something I want to deal with. I'd like the body to be as sound as possible, and I can fight with any minor annoyances. On to other vehicles at this point.

I will say that, after opening up to fords, it seems there are a lot my options in the lower price range than other brands. I didn't mind the way the truck drove, and the guy had a 99 that seemed to have a lot more power than the one I was originally more interested in. As it is, I have about 3-4 more local options to try, all about the same feature wise, all about the same price wise. Just hoping to find one with minimal rust.
 

herm0016

Diamond Member
Feb 26, 2005
8,432
1,061
126
that looks like a nice truck. should be very reliable. that is a base engine, a little better would be the 5.7L but that is also a good choice.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
looks to be in good shape. original engine? any rebuild?

Original.

I met with the guy yesterday and discovered that it may need a U joint replaced, tie rod ends, an alignment, and tires.

It comes with a set of extra tires as well.

I agreed to buy it despite those issues, as it ran great and the body was the nicest I've seen in the price range. Unfortunately, he was fairly firm on the price, so I only wiggled off a couple hundred, but he seemed like a sharp guy with good mechanical sense, and had already replaced pads and other normal items that were needed.

I figure I can sell the extra set of rims (I don't really care for most non-factory rims anyway), and get some of the other stuff taken care of. I'll probably do the joint and tie rod ends myself. Alignment through the dealer along with replacing the ignition as it is very temperamental on the key switch. Run over to Costco and grab some tires. And fairly soon add in a Herculiner bed liner.

But, at the age and price point, the engine and body are pretty much the best I've seen.

In this area, I've seen these trucks go for a bit more with a lot more rust in the wheel wells. All in all, it should shape up pretty nicely.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
Well, got the truck bought and in the driveway. Working on getting everything up to snuff over the next couple of weeks which includes:

First things:
1) New driver's side mirror
2) New universal joints (gonna pull the shaft, so just as well do both, right?)
3) New tie rod ends.
4) New shocks all the way around.

Second things: (at dealer)
1) New ignition tumbler - have to turn the key kinda funny to get it to work.
2) Alignment.

Third thing:
1) New windshield. Haven't decided where to go for that yet.

Possibly fourth thing:
1) Rust repair. Guess there was a little more than I thought, but still not terrible.

Ordered the parts for the first part at just over $300. Moog tie rod ends, Moog U-Joints. Monroe SensaTrac shocks. A fairly highly rated mirror assembly (also sold at Amazon and rated highly so it should hopefully be sturdy and not vibrate too much).

Dealer work should be just under $300 total, but I'd prefer not to screw with the ignition myself. Need a steering wheel removal tool, possible risk of airbag deployment if you screw up. Just not worth it in my book.

The windshield may be replaced with used, haven't decided yet. Gotta price it out.

The rust may or may not get repaired. Not sure yet. If I can find a good enough quote, I'd like to get it straightened out, but if not, I'll have to figure a way to tighten it up as best I can.

 
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SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
Does your auto insurance offer free zero deductible windshield replacement? I would call and ask.

Mine does.
 

mvbighead

Diamond Member
Apr 20, 2009
3,793
1
81
Does your auto insurance offer free zero deductible windshield replacement? I would call and ask.

Mine does.

They might. Only problem is, if I bought the truck that way, I feel like I would be responsible for it, at least this time around. Am I wrong in thinking that?
 

SilthDraeth

Platinum Member
Oct 28, 2003
2,635
0
71
They might. Only problem is, if I bought the truck that way, I feel like I would be responsible for it, at least this time around. Am I wrong in thinking that?

Not really wrong. But considering how much you have payed into auto insurance...

Most people never use their insurance ever, yet we all pay it. The only claims I have ever had is autoglass replacement in 12 years of driving. So I have cost my insurance about $500 worst case scenario, which is a pretty pricey windshield replacement.

Not sure about you, but I would feel just fine in having them pick up the tab on this one.
 
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