OMG I just saw Black Hawk Down....

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RaWrulez

Senior member
Mar 4, 2001
968
0
0
BECAUSE we are Americans. And everyone that isn't us, know we are the devil. As for the movie, It was awesome. But if I hear HooAh! one more time for the rest of my life... it would be too soon....
 

MedicBob

Diamond Member
Nov 29, 2001
4,151
1
0
I saw it yesterday with several members of my infantry company, I am the senior medic in the company. It was a very good movie, graphic yes, but realistic.

The question was raised if this movie would change your mind about joining the military. It shouldn't, it was a movie based on real life events. I would suggest reading the book. it has better details and goes into greater depth.

BTW, I have been serving for 14 years so far.

Bottom line good flick, will buy when it comes out on DVD
 

Emos

Golden Member
Oct 27, 2000
1,989
0
0
I saw BHD last night and thought it was very good...it realistically showed how a chaotic firefight would be. It remained rather faithful to the book too.
 

perry

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2000
4,018
1
0
The part that got me was when they were doing "surgery" on the guy in the building. The closeups of his leg and the guy reaching his arm up in there to get to the artery. That was pretty damn graphic.
 

konichiwa

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
15,077
2
0
My comments...

Very good movie, however, the book was a LOT better. Not only does the book give the complete story of the US involvement in Somalia, it also develops the characters a lot more strongly and gives the story, at times, from both sides of the fence: Rangers/Delta/SOAR Soldiers as well as Somalis. To quote a friend of mine:

<< Mark Bowden, Black Hawk Down the Novel: "The story of combat is timeless. It is about the same things whether in Troy or Gettysburg, Normandy or the Ia Drang. It is about soldiers, most of them young, trapped in a fight to the death. The extreme and terrible nature of war touches something essential about being human?"

Jerry Bruckheimer/Ridley Scott: Dugga dugga dugga! Neeeeeooooow! Boooooooom! >>


So yes, the movie was good, but I'd put it in the class of The Rock, not a truly great war movie.

-----

Another very interesting thing (albeit long) that many of you would (or should, cough-AndrewR-cough :| ) enjoy reading:

"Black Hawk Down" - Hollywood drags bloody corpse of truth across movie screens
By Larry Chin

January 3, 2002 -- True to its post-9/11 government-sanctioned role as US war propaganda headquarters, Hollywood has released "Black Hawk Down," a fictionalized account of the tragic 1993 US raid in Somalia. The Pentagon assisted with the production, pleased for an opportunity to "set the record straight." The film is a lie that compounds the original lie that was the operation itself.

Somalia: the facts

According to the myth, the Somalia operation of 1993 was a humanitarian mission, and a shining example of New World Order morality and altruism. In fact, US and UN troops waged an undeclared war against an Islamic African populace that was hostile to foreign interests.

Also contrary to the legend, the 1993 Somalia raid was not a "Clinton foreign policy bungle." In fact, the incoming Clinton administration inherited an operation that was already in full swing -- planned and begun by outgoing President George Herbert Walker Bush, spearheaded by deputy national security adviser Jonathan Howe (who remained in charge of the UN operation after Clinton took office), and approved by Colin Powell, then head of the Joint Chiefs.

The operation had nothing to do with humanitarianism or Africa-love on the part of Bush or Clinton. Several US oil companies, including Conoco, Amoco, Chevron and Phillips were positioned to exploit Somalia's rich oil reserves. The companies had secured billion-dollar concessions to explore and drill large portions of the Somali countryside during the reign of pro-US President Mohamed Siad Barre. (In fact, Conoco's Mogadishu office housed the US embassy and military headquarters.) A "secure" Somalia also provided the West with strategic location on the coast of Arabian Sea.

UN military became necessary when Barre was overthrown by warlord Mohammed Farrah Aidid, suddenly rendering Somalia inhospitable to US corporate interests.

Although the pretext for the mission was to safeguard food shipments, and stop the "evil Aidid" from stealing the food, the true UN goal was to remove Aidid from the political equation, and form a pro-Western coalition government out of the nation's warring clans. The US operation was met with "surprisingly fierce resistance" -- surprising to US officials who underestimated Somalian resolve, and even more surprising to US troops who were victims and pawns of UN policy makers.

The highly documented series by Mark Bowden of the Philadelphia Inquirer on which the film is based , focuses on the participants, and the "untenable" situation in which troops were placed. But even Bowden's gung-ho account makes no bones about provocative American attacks that ultimately led to the decisive defeat in Mogadishu.

Bowden writes: " Task Force Ranger was not in Mogadishu to feed the hungry. Over six weeks, from late August to Oct. 3, it conducted six missions, raiding locations where either Aidid or his lieutenants were believed to be meeting. The mission that resulted in the Battle of Mogadishu came less than three months after a surprise missile attack by U.S. helicopters (acting on behalf of the UN) on a meeting of Aidid clansmen. Prompted by a Somalian ambush on June 5 that killed more than 20 Pakistani soldiers, the missile attack killed 50 to 70 clan elders and intellectuals, many of them moderates seeking to reach a peaceful settlement with the United Nations. After that July 12 helicopter attack, Aidid's clan was officially at war with America -- a fact many Americans never realized."

Hundreds, perhaps thousands, of Somalis were killed in the course of US incursions that took place over three months. In his book The New Military Humanism, Noam Chomsky cites other under-reported facts. "In October 1993, criminal incompetence by the US military led to the slaughter of 1,000 Somalis by American firepower." Chomsky writes. "The official estimate was 6-10,000 Somali casualties in the summer of 1993 alone, two-thirds women and children. Marine Lt. Gen. Anthony Zinni, who commanded the operation, informed the press that 'I'm not counting bodies . . . I'm not interested.' Specific war crimes of US forces included direct military attacks on a hospital and on civilian gatherings. Other Western armies were implicated in serious crimes as well. Some of these were revealed at an official Canadian inquiry, not duplicated by the US or other governments."

Bowden's more forgiving account does not contradict Chomsky's in this regard:

"Official U.S. estimates of Somalian casualties at the time numbered 350 dead and 500 injured. Somalian clan leaders made claims of more than 1,000 deaths. The United Nations placed the number of dead at ``between 300 to 500.'' Doctors and intellectuals in Mogadishu not aligned with the feuding clans say that 500 dead is probably accurate.

The attack on Mogadishu was particularly vicious. Quoting Bowden: "The Task Force Ranger commander, Maj. Gen. William F. Garrison, testifying before the Senate, said that if his men had put any more ammunition into the city 'we would have sunk it.' Most soldiers interviewed said that through most of the fight they fired on crowds and eventually at anyone and anything they saw."

After 18 US Special Forces soldiers were killed in the final Mogadishu firefight, which included the downing of a US helicopter, television screens filled with the scene of a dead US soldier being dragged through the streets by jubilant Somalis. Clinton immediately called off the operation. US forces left Somalia in disgrace. Some 19,000 UN troops remained for a short period, but eventually left in futility.

The Somalia defeat elicited howls of protest and rage from the military brass, congressional hawks, and right-wing provocateurs itching for an excuse to declare political war on the "liberal" Clinton administration.

The "Somalia syndrome" would dog Clinton throughout his presidency, and mar every military mission during his tenure.

Today, as right-wing extremist George W. Bush occupies the White House, surrounded by his father's operatives, and many of the architects of the original raid, military fanaticism is all the rage. A global war "without end" has just begun.

What a perfect moment to "clean up" the past.

Hollywood to the rescue

In promoting the film, producer Jerry Bruckheimer (who rewrote another humiliating episode of US military history with "Pearl Harbor") is seeking to convince Americans that the Somalia operation was "not America's darkest hour, but America's brightest hour;" that a bungled imperialist intervention was a noble incident of grand moral magnificence.

CNN film reviewer Paul Tatara describes "Black Hawk Down" as "pound for pound, one of the most violent films ever released by a major studio," from "two of the most pandering, tactless filmmakers in Hollywood history (Jerry Bruckheimer and Ridley Scott)" who are attempting to "teach us about honor among soldiers."

More important are the film's true subtexts, and the likely emotional reaction of viewers.

What viewers see is "brave and innocent young American boys" getting shot at and killed for "no reason" by "crazy black Islamists" that the Americans are "just trying to help." (Subtext one: America is good, and it is impossible to understand why "they hate us." Subtext two: "Those damned ungrateful foreigners." Subtext three: "Those damned blacks." Subtext four: "Kill Arabs.")

What viewers will remember is a line spoken by one of the "brave soldiers" about how, in the heat of combat, "politics goes out the window." (Subtext one: there is no need for thought; shoot first, talk later. Subtext two: it is right to abandon one's sanity, morality and ethics when faced with chaos. Subtext three: when the Twin Towers went down on 9/11, America was right in embracing radical militarism and extreme violence, throwing all else "out the window.")

In the currently lethal political climate, in which testosterone rage, mob mentality, and love of war pass for normal behavior (while reason, critical thinking, and tolerance are considered treasonous), "Black Hawk Down" will appeal to the most violent elements of American society. Many who have seen the film report leaving the theater feeling angry, itching to "kick some ass." In short, the film is dangerous. And those who "love" it are dangerous.

Considering the fact that Somalia is one of the targets in the next phase of the Bush administration's "war on terrorism," the timing of the film is no coincidence.

As Herbert London of the Hudson Institute said of "Black Hawk Down," "I would never deny the importance of heroism in battle, but just as we should recognize and honor heroes, we should also respect the truthfulness of the events surrounding their heroic acts. In the case of 'Black Hawk Down,' we get a lot of the former and almost nothing of the latter."
 

Logix

Diamond Member
Jul 26, 2001
3,627
0
0


<< ...was the fact that militia troops were on the rooftops unloading massive amounts of gunfire on humvees passing through, and it seemed that the top gunner was NEVER getting hit. That part toward the end where they took over the mobile rocket launchers and lit up the roof for the straffing run was very very sweet >>


Agreed. I just saw it, and that was one of the better parts of the flick.

The movie was well made, and told the story well, but didn't seem to have a point. It was just one big, big war sequence. A well-filmed war sequence, but that was it.
 

NonTechGuy

Banned
Jan 21, 2002
174
0
0


<< I saw it yesterday with several members of my infantry company, I am the senior medic in the company. It was a very good movie, graphic yes, but realistic. >>


it may have been a good movie but it is VERY FAR from the truth, in reality those guys got their asses blown off, the americans failed miserably on that one
 

AdamDuritz99

Diamond Member
Mar 26, 2000
3,233
0
71
I just got back from the theater a couple hours ago, and Black Hawk Down was awsome. Definantly worth watching and i can't wait to get the DVD.

peace
sean
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,634
27
91
Just got back from seeing. Very good movie. You wouldn't have known it was a Jerry Bruckheimer flick (I did know actually) until ya saw the HUGE American flag hanging up in the hanger as Josh Hartnet was preparing his troops for battle. Then there were a few scenes where the soldiers were blatantly leaning their right shoulders into the camera so that you could see the american flag on the arm.

And another thing (concerning Tom Seizmore). Have you noticed that in both Saving Private Ryan and Blackhawk Down that when the action gets rough and bullets start flying that he just WALKS AROUND STRAIGHT UP AND UNASSUMING LIKE NOTHING IS GOING ON?? Bullets whizzing by and he is just strolling along without a care in the world.

GOD THAT PISSED ME OFF...in BOTH movies!!!:|:|
 

Nefrodite

Banned
Feb 15, 2001
7,931
0
0
bullets start flying that he just WALKS AROUND STRAIGHT UP AND UNASSUMING LIKE NOTHING IS GOING ON??

yes but was it the actor or the directors decision. i don't think the director coulda missed something that obvious.. hmm i dunno
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,634
27
91


<< bullets start flying that he just WALKS AROUND STRAIGHT UP AND UNASSUMING LIKE NOTHING IS GOING ON??

yes but was it the actor or the directors decision. i don't think the director coulda missed something that obvious.. hmm i dunno
>>


It's Seizmore. He did the same fuggin thing in Saving Private Ryan and it pissed me off to no end. In BHD, everyone else is ducking and running and he is just strolling along talking on the radio w/o a care in the world (actually, he does it on more than one occasion in BHD). ARGHH!!!:|:|
 

Hammer

Lifer
Oct 19, 2001
13,217
1
81
The history channel has a special tonight on 'The True Story of Black Hawk Down'. It's at 8pm CST I think. Has interview with the actual operators and a lot of stuff left out of the movie, should be interesting.
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,634
27
91


<< The history channel has a special tonight on 'The True Story of Black Hawk Down'. It's at 8pm CST I think. Has interview with the actual operators and a lot of stuff left out of the movie, should be interesting. >>


What do you mean by "operators?" When I think of operator, I think of the person that comes on the phone line when I dial 4-1-1
 

b0mbrman

Lifer
Jun 1, 2001
29,470
1
81


<<

<< decapitated some guys legs from his waist down >>


that ended my reading of whether or not to take this review in my contemplation of seeing this movie.
>>



Ha ha. Good movie though. Young Josh Hartnett didn't really convince me as a Ranger staff sergeant though...
 

Phokus

Lifer
Nov 20, 1999
22,993
776
126
Basic premise of black hawk down: Americans = heroic, leave out the insidious politics behind the mission, leave out the US soldiers shooting down a thousand innocent civilians.
 

fatbaby

Banned
May 7, 2001
6,427
1
0


<< Many who have seen the film report leaving the theater feeling angry, itching to "kick some ass." In short, the film is dangerous. And those who "love" it are dangerous. >>

ahahah

2 questions:

For that guy who was injured ("tell my parents that i did good today" or something), towards the end, you see him in the hospital and that captain guy ("i'm gonna have you licking oil until you can't distinguish oil from french frys" or something) is talking to him and the injured guy says "the medic said i'll be alright, just give it 2 days"...and then near the very end, you see josh harnett talking to his dead body "i'm going to tell your parents you did good" or something.

So he dies? or have i confused 2 different ppl?

and...in real life, what happens to the captured american pilot?

~fat
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,634
27
91


<<

<< Many who have seen the film report leaving the theater feeling angry, itching to "kick some ass." In short, the film is dangerous. And those who "love" it are dangerous. [/q ahahah

2 questions:

For that guy who was injured ("tell my parents that i did good today" or something), towards the end, you see him in the hospital and that captain guy ("i'm gonna have you licking oil until you can't distinguish oil from french frys" or something) is talking to him and the injured guy says "the medic said i'll be alright, just give it 2 days"...and then near the very end, you see josh harnett talking to his dead body "i'm going to tell your parents you did good" or something.

So he dies? or have i confused 2 different ppl?

and...in real life, what happens to the captured american pilot?

~fat
>>


2 different people
 

NFS4

No Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
72,634
27
91


<<

<< Call me a dumb ass but what's an RPG? >>



grenade propelled rocket
>>


Umm, Rocket Propelled Grenade or else it'd be called a GPR
 

Noriaki

Lifer
Jun 3, 2000
13,640
1
71


<< Don't ever go to a movie alone. First, you can't talk about it right after seeing it. Second, some people will think you can't get a date! >>

Why would some people think that?
And more to the point, why would you care what some random stranger in a movie theatre thinks?

Are you so insecure about yourself that you can't handle going to a movie you want to see alone, simply because society tells us that it makes you a reject?
I'm sure it's so much better to sit alone in your bedroom watching a mayalasian bootleg copy on your monitor. <dripping with sarcasm>At least then no one will think you can't get a date.

While having some friends go to a movie with you is nice, but if you want to see a movie and can't find anyone else to go with you, so you go alone, what is wrong with being self reliant for your own entertainment hmmmm? Are you really so weak willed that it matters to you that some other people you don't even know think you can't get a date?

People go to the Gym alone. People read books alone. People watch TV alone. Hell they invented walkmans, discmans, personal MP3 players etc, so that people that were doing things alone could have music to listen to. Why is there this odd stigmata associated with the movies?

Sorry for the Off Topic. I just find it odd that you should say such a thing because Skoorb is going to go to a movie alone. There's not a thing wrong with it. In fact I find it quite the opposite, people that can do things by themself tend to be very mentally healthy. Needing the company of other people all the time, is just as bad as never wanting other company.

All things in good balance my friend.
 

RossMAN

Grand Nagus
Feb 24, 2000
78,792
266
116


<<

<<

<< Call me a dumb ass but what's an RPG? >>



grenade propelled rocket
>>


Umm, Rocket Propelled Grenade or else it'd be called a GPR
>>



Thanks.

So have you seen it yet?
 
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