OMG!!!! Thermaltake wants Mikewarrior to close his site?!?!?!?

[JellyBaby]

The Register might be interested in reading this thread. Corporate control over the once free internet is really becoming obvious this year. This trend is frightening and it takes a lot to frighten me.

 

[Cerb]

While I do wonder about the Super Orb, for the price the Orbs aren't that bad. I'm using a Chrome Orb, and while it doesn't perform as well as other coolers, I can get a Golden Orb or Chrome Orb for $10-$15. If I get a pre-tested CPU and want to do some real overclocking, I'd get something better. But that is main point of Mikewarrior2's site, of course: They aren't the best, but numerous web reviews say they are, or are very near it.

 

[Windogg]

Mike has finally put into a full review what many of us here and other forums have been saying for a long time. TT coolers are inferior to Alphas, GlobalWins, and the ever economical Taisols, They are nice examples of form over function. A polished turd is just that, a piece of crap. The "orb" coolers are the iMac of heatsink/fan combos.

Windogg

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Before you guys pull out the torches. The only "official" notice of this action I see is a post on www.millisec.com. The page is on free webspace and I think if some big company wanted it removed, it is still there,it would be gone in a flash . I'm not doubting Mikewarrior but I don't see the need to go yelling about first ammendment rights yet.

 

[MortaniuS]

Mikewarrior, if they wanna mess with you, i got a whole domain for ya to move to with anandtech-like script setup, infopursuit.com ;-) Thermaltake can TRY to screw with me ;-)

 

[Windogg]

Yes, it's not a first ammendment issue since no goverment agency is threatening to throw Mike in jail. The issue at heart is strongarm tactics.

Windogg

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Windogg
The point I'm getting at is that your calling it "strong armed tactics" based on a webpage. I see no other proof yet. Its not even mentioned on Mikes page.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

AntiSocial Virge-

I have not mentioned it because it isn't worth mentioning on my page. I am talking about socket-a temp measurements, and i've backed up everything i've said with scientific "theory's" and now some p3 diode versus socket-thermistor tests. Until thermaltake "officially" sues me, i'm gonna just take it in stride. They asked that my page be taken down. I refused. I dont' know what will happen next.

To the two people that I believe i am targeting thermaltake, explain why this isn't on my page. It is certainly newsworthy, but it does not pertain to socket-a temp measurements. It is not my personal responsibility that it turns out the orbs "cheat" socket-thermistor readings. I don't know how, yet.

Mike

 

[Maverick2002]

Mike let me know if this gets out of hand, we've got out own forums now at MIKHAILTECH (my hardware site), so go register there
Anyway, let me know if they do anything, and I'll do all I can to support you all the way through. We can't put up with this S*** any longer.
But it is weird, wouldn't you think a company would be TRYING to GET customers and not LOSE them? By using a scare tactic on one site they just lost a BIG chunk of sales, considering most people that buy their stuff are overclockers & computer HW people.

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Ok thats fine. I'm kinda curious how a orb sitting on a core can affect a socket-thermsitor under the core more than any other heatsink. Would like to see an explanation for that.

I just think everyone should start looking at this from a different standpoint. What is Mike is wrong? Would you, being the owner of Thermaltake, not want his site shut down? I know he is a good and valuable member of this board but don't stop questioning things and follow like sheep.

Good luck Mike and I hope to see some good reading in the future.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

One theory is this.

Sockets are not sealed. neither are cpu-socket junctions. ORb's wrap air around themselves at 360 degrees, whereas most heatsinks only do it on 2 edges(and it isn't a circular effect, at that). Test REsults Here. I've done lots of theoretical work on this and now some testing to that clearly exhibits this, and have waited many, many months before putting the page together. Probably took 6 months to learn as much about why socket-thermistor readings are wrong, then find out about the compression, etc. IN essence, no heatsink tested on socket-thermsitors is right, but the orbs exhibit very strange behaviors.

Will look into it more..


Mike

 

[Sunny129]

BIGGDOG, while the Gorb isnt the best air cooler out there, it isnt the worst either. what i'm saying is that you might be able to make some money off the 4 Gorbs you have left instead of throwing them away. while almost everyone in these forums now know not to get a Gorb b/c there are better coolers out there, the people who buy on e-bay are pretty much all suckers. you could probably make some money trying to seel them on e-bay...just a thought.

 

[Maverick2002]

E-gay you mean? yea you'll make some $$

 

[Antisocial Virge]

Hmmm...The circular airflow is a good point. Easiest way to remove that variable is to seal the socket and CPU for testing purposes. Alphas would be way off wack also depending on if they "suck or blow" according to your theory Maybe the drop in temp I acheived by switching my alpha fan around was not correct.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Possible... but alpha's perform well, anyways.... There isn't a question to their performance like their is with the orbs.



Mike

 

[PCAddict]

These strongarm tactics make me sick. At least I know what coolers NOT to buy.



It would also seem that Thermaltake has a PR mole operating under the name NateDog on Anandtech forums(and probably elsewhere) that is spreading misinformation. He denied being a Thermaltake employee but his IP was traced back to Thermaltake's domain.

I hope this guy has a flame-retardant suit. ROFL!

 

[natedog]

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!! I just saw this thread for the first time. Somebody mentioned it in that thread about taisols from nerdsbyte i started.

Soo, what do I have to say about all this. First of all, I'm not a Thermaltake PR mole. I never saw the original post at millisec, but my ip is NOT part of the thermaltake doman. I don't know where the hell they got that. Someone is seriously full of crap on that one. Secondly, because of that false information, I find it VERY hard to believe anything else said in the article.

Here's my deal. I bought an orb for my tbird, but then i started to read around and looks like the most part people didn't like them as much as some of the others. Seeing as how I want to overclock the crap out of it I decided I don't want to take the chance (big woop, I'm down $11). Soo, I ordered a taisol from nerdsbyte. And I HAVE to have the best!!

My main problem with mike was the way he came into the forums throwing around some speculative information, but never really saying it was. People starting thinking his numbers were straight from the Gods and stopped thinking for themselves. And I quote from this very thread:

&quot;I'm not entirely sure I can explain HOW, but looking at Diode versus Socket Thermistor Readings <http://mikewarrior.freeservers.com/problem_vi.html>, that's what appears to happen.&quot;

Quite frankly mike can throw around numbers all day, but he will still choose to say that the readings for the TT hsf's are somehow being cheated, even though he has NO REASON why. Hmmm, maybe because there isn't a reason? Just a suggestion, which I'm sure mike will discount in 2 sec.

I'm sure many of you think I'm the devil, but I totally agree that this probably isn't the best cooler out there, but people should be able to hear from SOMEONE ELSE and realize that JUST MAYBE mike doesn't have all the answers. I totally respect mike and what he is doing, but I'm sorry mike, you've got to learn to do your &quot;journalism&quot; in a much less biased way.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

You know what, you flamin' piece of thermaltake PR mole... Go ahead, sue me. There, I said it. Do you honestly think this won't turn into a complete PR disaster for you guys?

DIODE Versus Thermistor Tests on Orbs, Globalwins and Taisols.

Until you can give me a valid reason why the results on that page are wrong, SHUT THE F UP!!! And on that page, you can see that performance order changes with socket-thermsitor readings, versus internal diode readings. Bear in mind that Internal Diode readings are the only way to measure relative heatsink changes.

I have always said THEORETICAL CORE TEMP. AND I have always backed up it up with hard scientific proof. Just because you do not believe in physics or science or anything of logic is not my problem.

Since you're a PR person, maybe you can put a spin on why orb's effect socket-thermistor readings more than other heatsinks? I'm sure your company knows what is going on. There obviously is a reason for these results, because of hundreds of ORB reviews online all done with socket-thermsitor experience a magical performs within 1C of an alpha phenomenon.

And it clearly does not. Going by Thermaltake's own numbers, the c-orb has a C/W of .82. You know what that means on a 25C case temp t-bird 1.1ghz @ 1.8V? a cpu core temp of 78C. That is going by what your company publishes on their own website. Compare this with alpha c/w of ~.37, which is magically matched by the super-orb which has a c/w of .62

Maybe you should go take a physics class, or some basic math... because its obvious that science escapes you. What you take as bias, I take as truth. I speak of thermaltake on ONE SINGLE PAGE on my webpage. I have no published the &quot;Shut down your site&quot; information. WHY? Because it has nothing to do with my page. So take this BIAS BULL$hit and either do your stupid lawsuit or shut the hell up.


Mike

To everyone else, i'm requisitioning the raw logs from Freeservers so that I may publish the thermaltake domain info... they do not give access to logs older than 7 days. I certainly hope they still hold onto them.

 

[tongboy]

Okay I'm not going to say Mike is lying or anything But I without Proof I can't believe a damn thing. A emergancy install doesn't (usually) mean that you can't get your email files off or something that drastic. and without those or some other kind of indisputable proof I just can't believe a claim like this. And the fact that your claiming natedog is a pr rep he claims he isn't your word against his. You may have built respect in this forum but I don't know about any of it so you too are on level grounds as far as I'm concerned.

I am in the process of dispatching an email to thermaltake about the situation and the actuallity of it. I will of course upon response post both emails.

 

[holdencommodore]

I decided to get a FOP32-1 for my Duron thanks to Mikewarrior's site.
I'm glad I got Global Win and not ThermalTake.!

Sometimes the best products arn't always the best looking!

 

[tongboy]

If you got a fop32 why not a fop38 same design just bigger and according to as far as I know every hardware site on the internet (okay only most) it's the best cooler?

I'm just saying don't put your eggs in one basket.

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Tongboy,

Once again, I have not posted this on my page as there has been no follow-up from thermaltake. THE emergency reformat was because i could use windows for more than 5 seconds... that precludes use of burner or forwarding the mail to another account.. I don't normally backup-emails. I hadn't reformatted this computer for some 9-odd months.

What makes you so certain that thermaltake will not reneg on the orignal e-mail? They certainly have not followed up the e-mail or any further action against me. As I said, I have requested the logs from Freeservers. Until I get them, you're right, I can't prove natedog is thermaltake pr. But judging from this and previous threads, his lack of faith in science and utter stupidity is certainly in keeping with PR mentality.

Or is it because they supplied the heatsink for you to test on your site that you're defending them? What is so hard to believe about a big-company strong-arming little ones? I've read on Millisec that thermaltake has threatened to sue them several times for &quot;disparing&quot; comments about thermaltake. I don't think Ihave disparaging comments on the company itself, but rather the performance of their coolers.


Mike
Also, I do not bank on reputation. If I wanted to, I could have let word of Thermaltake's actions against me. And i'd get support on these and other forums. I personally chose not to until it further developed. I cannot stop others from publishing that information, though. Was it premature, possibly. But were they wrong in publishing it, that's nto for me to decide

 

[Mikewarrior2]

Tongboy,

I see thermaltake is listed as one of your sponsors... I on the other hand, am sponsored by nobody. Some bias, perhaps?



Mike

 

[Liquid_Lenny]

You know, one of the nice things about IE 5 or IE5.5 is the ability to save webpages. I saved all of your pages, Mike, and I'll re-edit the links to make sure they work and put it up on my website if the bastards make you take your down.

Screw 'em. This is a First Amendment issue.

 

[Double Trouble]

<<What is Mike is wrong? Would you, being the owner of Thermaltake, not want his site shut down? I know he is a good and valuable member of this board but don't stop questioning things and follow like sheep.>>

Whether Mike is right or wrong does not matter in the least. I don't even care about the results of his tests. The overriding concern is that he is an independent reviewer, and he should be able to post whatever theories he wishes. It's up to you and I, the readers, to decide whether the theories hold water or not. Unless Mike posts something slanderous (which to my knowledge he has not), ThermalTake should not resort to threats to try and silence critics. It's a dangerous precendent for everyone that values unbiased or objective review.

ThermalTake is done for me... even if they make the best cooler in the history of the world, I refuse to support a company that tries to intimidate critics into silence.