On Atheism vs. Christianity

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Moonbeam, you indicate often that we humans are the same with only minor differences.

This would be true in a general sense but we have differences in the way our minds operate.

Minor?

I beg to differ.

Just posts in here clearly shows the major differences in how there are pea brains Vs real brains.

I think the mapping of the human genome provides that everyone cept identical twins and cloned Moonbeams are unique. I think also that mind function is not to be found on one section of DNA. I think a combo of different factors and DNA enables this conscious thinking stuff. I think it less likely for some and more likely for others to be capable of faith based assumptions. How can we have Republicans and Democrats (the ones who actually are truthful) see the same condition totally opposite.
IF Jesus said "It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven" what could he have been thinking? Assuming Jesus also said that he was the way to heaven and that it is factual why is it so hard for the rich man to simply accept Jesus? Is it cuz they think differently which is why they are rich to start with vis a vis the poor, let's say?
I wonder these things because I find it so easy to accept Jesus as my buddy. It is like without question that God exists. I know this to be true. While others ask for proof. Like I can invite them over and have tea and make the introductions.
We do have major differences while still not being so far from the average on my Bell Curve.


Edit: I was just asked if I accept evolution as how humans are on earth and that they evolved from The Ape. heheheheheh
My initial response was: IF God is an Ape like creature then sure. I then heard "Gramps said God is a monkey" When we close our eyes and imagine what God looks like I wonder how many picture him as that movie star that portrayed him or Moses looks like Chuck Heston, etc... I don't see God when I close my eyes... I feel God in my mind..

 

[dmcowen674]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I don't see God when I close my eyes... I feel God in my mind..

Well shit, there's your answer, you are GOD

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: dmcowen674

Originally posted by: LunarRay
I don't see God when I close my eyes... I feel God in my mind..

Well shit, there's your answer, you are GOD

Well... ok... And you ain't?

Guess when them folks talk about the Trinity and the Holy Spirit occupies the soul - and it is God - that they might be right.
IF the soul like the ego is the mind's intangible summation of consciousness I'd not expect to see it ... but like the ego I think I'd be able to feel it...

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Modelworks
This site explains the views better than I think anyone here has:
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/

Well, geese. It don't have the 'Imprimatur' so how can us Catholics read that. It might be filled with stuff that goes against Catholic doctrine. They could have gotten a bishop to sign off on it (only two were over ridden to my knowledge) and we'd be able to see what God is all about as they see it. We'll have to stay in the dark regarding that site, I guess. Besides who knows better than the Pope.
You see, once you become attached to a particular philosophy you get sorta brain washed but not in a bad way but in their way. Each here in their own way seeks to explain, define, defend and examine God or the lack thereof.
It is not at all about what others say but, rather, what we as individuals know is real, truth and complete.
I think.

You really need to ask yourself a couple of really insightful questions .


I have seen I believe it was you. Write in key Holy Catholic Church . you know thats wrong . It HOLY ROMANCatholic Church. .

What with all the FALSE IDOLS IN THOSE CHURCHES.

How is it the After Christ did say none can come to the father except threw me. Yet PAUL came to the father threw the Holy spirit . Not threw Christ.

Why is it the PAUL the ROMAN friend to ceasar and a scholar . Have more writings in scripture than the TRUE apostles. How is it Paul replaced MaryM. as 12 Apostle.
Why so little writen about Christ after # years of delivering the Word . I am sure he was prudent in his task .
No if it STinks like Rome and Looks like Rome Its Rome .

Go check out the last 4 corninations of Popes. Than Notice the Staff thats used in those ungodly ceramonies. What Happened to the Orginal Staff before Paul II/ ANS> that question and you will be on road to trueth. and recovery.

Paul never knew Christ he worked for ROME. He changed what Christ did say. Threw long borring second hand stories and and a Romans Bias to create a Church of CHRIST in ROMEs Image . That Why There is NO Christ in HOLY ROMAN CATHLOLIC CHURCH.

Its all cermony and BS and With all the False Idols Clothed in Gold and pricies jewels.

False Idols changing worship from Sabbath to SUNday . Christ did say as its written I come to fulfill the Law(covenent) not change it.

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: Modelworks
This site explains the views better than I think anyone here has:
http://www.philosophyofreligion.info/

Well, geese. It don't have the 'Imprimatur' so how can us Catholics read that. It might be filled with stuff that goes against Catholic doctrine. They could have gotten a bishop to sign off on it (only two were over ridden to my knowledge) and we'd be able to see what God is all about as they see it. We'll have to stay in the dark regarding that site, I guess. Besides who knows better than the Pope.
You see, once you become attached to a particular philosophy you get sorta brain washed but not in a bad way but in their way. Each here in their own way seeks to explain, define, defend and examine God or the lack thereof.
It is not at all about what others say but, rather, what we as individuals know is real, truth and complete.
I think.

You really need to ask yourself a couple of really insightful questions .


I have seen I believe it was you. Write in key Holy Catholic Church . you know thats wrong . It HOLY ROMANCatholic Church. .

What with all the FALSE IDOLS IN THOSE CHURCHES.

Ok... I guess that was Constantine's idea. But no matter, what flowed from that situation are what today folks believe, celebrate and defend. Who am I to condem their belief. I've said before that I don't see the need for which ever Saint some statue represents to intercede like a lawyer in court pleading on my behalf. I think Jesus understands even my most cryptic utterances.

How is it the After Christ did say none can come to the father except threw me. Yet PAUL came to the father threw the Holy spirit . Not threw Christ.

Why is it the PAUL the ROMAN friend to ceasar and a scholar . Have more writings in scripture than the TRUE apostles. How is it Paul replaced MaryM. as 12 Apostle.
Why so little writen about Christ after # years of delivering the Word . I am sure he was prudent in his task .
No if it STinks like Rome and Looks like Rome Its Rome .

I suppose Paul is an ancient groupie who also went to Woodstock in '69. I guess Paul equated the Father, Son and Holy Spirit as being one and the same, the Trinity. Who is to say that Paul didn't commune with Jesus and then Received the blessing of the Holy Spirit which illumanated him and enabled his conversion from Saul to Paul. Seems to me one can be inspired to do stuff under those conditions.. But, I don't recall him contradicting Jesus' message. Maybe he like the others felt compelled to spread the word. Doubt it was an evil endevor given it didn't seek to sew doubt of Jesus... well, except to some, it seems.

Go check out the last 4 corninations of Popes. Than Notice the Staff thats used in those ungodly ceramonies. What Happened to the Orginal Staff before Paul II/ ANS> that question and you will be on road to trueth. and recovery.

Paul never knew Christ he worked for ROME. He changed what Christ did say. Threw long borring second hand stories and and a Romans Bias to create a Church of CHRIST in ROMEs Image . That Why There is NO Christ in HOLY ROMAN CATHLOLIC CHURCH.

Its all cermony and BS and With all the False Idols Clothed in Gold and pricies jewels.

When I see all the pomp and circumstance of the rituals the Catholic Church puts on and then think of the poor hungry folks I cringe. But then I remember a comment Jesus was said to have made.. something about ... the poor will always be with us and let the girl put the oil on my feet... I suppose it was expensive oil or it wouldn't have mattered. So.. there is another way to look at it. I'd personally give the gold to the hungry and the homeless but not to convert them but, rather, to take those monies folks gave the church and disburse it. Sort of an economic stimulus.

False Idols changing worship from Sabbath to SUNday . Christ did say as its written I come to fulfill the Law(covenent) not change it.

Yep, Constantine again. Had to placate the Sun God worshipers. Easter and probably Christmas too. Go ahead and worship God on what ever day you choose I don't think God minds at all. I try to do that every day so to not be limited to the wrong day, just in case.
Edit: I think it was written that he said "I've come to fulfill the prophecy not to change it"
I think he also has been quoted to have said "I bring a new covenant".. so through him your sins are forgiven.. that was news then and perhaps a reason the Jew don't buy he is the Messiah. They still follow the traditions of their few versions of Judaism.

See the bold above

 

[Nemesis 1]

No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

Not sure how Barabbas fits in to it all, other than to somehow put blame for killing Jesus on the Jew who are said to have chosen him to be freed instead of Jesus.
The Covenant with Abraham was to do with his descendants becoming more numerous than the Stars... going to Hollywood to be Stars or what ever.
The Law and Prophesy is what they referred back then to what we call the Old Testament. I think Matt 5:17 indicates what he was on about there. But like most stuff you have to go else where to gather what he meant about fulfilling the Old Testament. These folks apparently knew what he was saying and knew he meant that he'd come to give them the new covenant whereby he was the vehicle through which their sins were forgiven. Which is what Isaiah said about the Messiah - The Savior - The Anointed One. These Jewish folks either accepted it - Christians - or not - Jews.
I don't think there is anything clandestine about any of this. Seems to me the entire deal was a fait accompli.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

Would that be Klaus Barbius, the infamous Butcher of Lyon? Or was that Klaus Barbi? It's so easy to get confused.

Or perhaps you mean the fictional "bandit" called "Barabbas" in the bible.

Did you know that before the Bible was compiled, this bandit was referred to as "Jesus Barabbas" in the constituent texts? Did you also know that "Barabbas" is theorized to have been a contraction of "Bar Abba" = "son of the father?"

Son of the father? Gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? But I don't want to confuse you any further. Faith is a quirky thing.

It's so odd, though. The crucifixion of Christ is hailed by Christians as the ultimate act of atonement for the sins of Man. And yet the Jews are BLAMED for the crucifixion? If Christ had NOT been crucified, the whole atonement business would have been a non-starter, and with it the whole Christian religion.

So can someone explain to me why Jews are hated as "Christ killers?"

 

[LunarRay]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

Would that be Klaus Barbius, the infamous Butcher of Lyon? Or was that Klaus Barbi? It's so easy to get confused.

Or perhaps you mean the fictional "bandit" called "Barabbas" in the bible.

Did you know that before the Bible was compiled, this bandit was referred to as "Jesus Barabbas" in the constituent texts? Did you also know that "Barabbas" is theorized to have been a contraction of "Bar Abba" = "son of the father?"

Son of the father? Gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? But I don't want to confuse you any further. Faith is a quirky thing.

It's so odd, though. The crucifixion of Christ is hailed by Christians as the ultimate act of atonement for the sins of Man. And yet the Jews are BLAMED for the crucifixion? If Christ had NOT been crucified, the whole atonement business would have been a non-starter, and with it the whole Christian religion.

So can someone explain to me why Jews are hated as "Christ killers?"

Well... I can.. and did above in my post.

It is not a significant factor or even to do with Jesus' mission on Earth.

If you seek answers why ask us? IF seeking repulses you by the logic of your mind then ask of the planet in the sky. If you get no answer is there no planet or is there no God? IF you are answered it shall be heard in your heart and not your mind but the question will remain as will the answer.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: shira

It's so odd, though. The crucifixion of Christ is hailed by Christians as the ultimate act of atonement for the sins of Man. And yet the Jews are BLAMED for the crucifixion? If Christ had NOT been crucified, the whole atonement business would have been a non-starter, and with it the whole Christian religion

So can someone explain to me why Jews are hated as "Christ killers?"

I will get to your question as soon as I can answer my own. I'm wondering who would need to be saved if there were no such hatred.

 

[ericlp]

What did the zen master say to the hot dog vendor?

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

Would that be Klaus Barbius, the infamous Butcher of Lyon? Or was that Klaus Barbi? It's so easy to get confused.

Or perhaps you mean the fictional "bandit" called "Barabbas" in the bible.

Did you know that before the Bible was compiled, this bandit was referred to as "Jesus Barabbas" in the constituent texts? Did you also know that "Barabbas" is theorized to have been a contraction of "Bar Abba" = "son of the father?"

Son of the father? Gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? But I don't want to confuse you any further. Faith is a quirky thing.

It's so odd, though. The crucifixion of Christ is hailed by Christians as the ultimate act of atonement for the sins of Man. And yet the Jews are BLAMED for the crucifixion? If Christ had NOT been crucified, the whole atonement business would have been a non-starter, and with it the whole Christian religion.

So can someone explain to me why Jews are hated as "Christ killers?"

Well... I can.. and did above in my post.

It is not a significant factor or even to do with Jesus' mission on Earth.

If you seek answers why ask us? IF seeking repulses you by the logic of your mind then ask of the planet in the sky. If you get no answer is there no planet or is there no God? IF you are answered it shall be heard in your heart and not your mind but the question will remain as will the answer.

Christ Died at HANDS of ROme. Jews made choice. I am not capable of passing judgement. But you really do not understand what the covenement betwwen God and Abramam was . But a refresher for ya . Sarah was barron . She gave an egyptian handmaiden to Abramham had Arab baby . Later like Mary an angle came to sarah and said she would have Abrahams childs the second child .

God did command Abraham to sacrific one of the children . I won't get into which one the aurgument not worth it. Point is God stopped it a substitututed a goat for blood sacrific.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the covent betwwen God and Man . NO more sacrificies. NO more anything . Christ said 2 come after one false one true . NO others no nothing . Christ was the end of the old covenant.

What Rome released on the world was not Christ teachings but the teaching of rome so as to control the hearts and minds of men.

Somehow you cant get by the Father of Great nation . If that were all there was to it . We wouldn't Have the ARABS and Jews in a War about who was being sacrificed on that great beginning day.

Jews claim that it was the beginning of the 12 tribes threw the sparred Child.

Arabs believe the exact same thing threw the Arab child.

One is a copy cat one is a liar one is false you judge and choose what the trueth is . But don't let religious Dogma sway you. YOU CHOOSE when you Choose what to believe. You also pass JUDGEMENT! Look out you are not capable to judge.

 

[Nemesis 1]

There Is NO earthly authority. Nazi popes are not a heavenly authority they are Romes authority nothing more . Pure evil.

Why are Children in doctranated into dogma and cannon law befor they reach the age of reasoning? That not free Choice.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: ericlp
What did the zen master say to the hot dog vendor?

One with everything, but he said it in such a manner, with wholly intoned resonance and forcefullness of being, that the hot dog vendor saw instantly the universe in his hot dog contained.

If you have a hot dog I'll give you one, and if you don't I'll take it away.

 

[Moonbeam]

LR: I think the mapping of the human genome provides that everyone cept identical twins and cloned Moonbeams are unique. I think also that mind function is not to be found on one section of DNA. I think a combo of different factors and DNA enables this conscious thinking stuff. I think it less likely for some and more likely for others to be capable of faith based assumptions. How can we have Republicans and Democrats (the ones who actually are truthful) see the same condition totally opposite.
IF Jesus said "It is easier for a camel to fit through the eye of a needle than a rich man to enter the gates of heaven" what could he have been thinking? Assuming Jesus also said that he was the way to heaven and that it is factual why is it so hard for the rich man to simply accept Jesus? Is it cuz they think differently which is why they are rich to start with vis a vis the poor, let's say?
I wonder these things because I find it so easy to accept Jesus as my buddy. It is like without question that God exists. I know this to be true. While others ask for proof. Like I can invite them over and have tea and make the introductions.
We do have major differences while still not being so far from the average on my Bell Curve.

M: I think there are a million fishes in the sea but that they all swim in water, the same water that is in your blood.

One fish is born a king and another a pauper. The degree to which we differ, one from the other, is vastly more decided by the environment than our DNA.

I believe that God is not a being or even something exactly real, but that God is the water of our being, the immense oceanic silence we were born into as children. God is He who is when time is not, when thought does not exist. God is what every animal experiences. I believe that the human brain is a mirror in which the universe is contained, but only when the mind can reflect in utter stillness. God is not something we add to or find out there, but what is when there is no noise from the ego. God is a state of consciousness, and one we have all already known. What differers from person to person, in my opinion, is the level of noise. So for me, belief in God is not a matter of the qualities or differences of ones brain, but an automatic function of having one.

What differs among folk, in my opinion, is the extent to which they are have been conditioned to love their noise in a world so loud the truth is almost impossible to hear. Now some may have been born with differences in the acuity of their hearing and some live with varying degrees of noise, the the real key in my opinion, is whether somebody has told you to listen. You grew up in a tradition that suggested the voice you should attempt to hear is the Word of God. Whatever your acuity of hearing, and whatever your level of noise, you were given the intention to focus which filters background noise. Those are the things that matter, I believe. We are all fish waiting for the fishers of men. Did I ever tell you the story of the three fish? Do you think it could be the stupid fish that was the winner?

Anyway, there is the parable of the sower, and it isn't the seed that is defective, but the ground though I guess one could argue as to whether we are the germ or the matrix that is seeded. I'm going with germ. We are all one seed and whether we yield a crop is purely by the chance of where we fell to earth.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Christ Died at HANDS of ROme. Jews made choice. I am not capable of passing judgement. But you really do not understand what the covenement betwwen God and Abramam was . But a refresher for ya . Sarah was barron . She gave an egyptian handmaiden to Abramham had Arab baby . Later like Mary an angle came to sarah and said she would have Abrahams childs the second child .

God did command Abraham to sacrific one of the children . I won't get into which one the aurgument not worth it. Point is God stopped it a substitututed a goat for blood sacrific.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the covent between God and Man.

I'm gettin' a wee bit confused here, laddie. If Christ fulfilled the covenant, then the Jews were doing what God wanted, right? They were doing his will, to satisfy their solemn agreement with God. That would be a GOOD thing, right?

But YOU say, "Jews made choice," as if it were a BAD thing. Can you reconcile this disconnect?

NO more sacrificies. NO more anything . Christ said 2 come after one false one true . NO others no nothing . Christ was the end of the old covenant.

What Rome released on the world was not Christ teachings but the teaching of rome so as to control the hearts and minds of men.

Somehow you cant get by the Father of Great nation . If that were all there was to it . We wouldn't Have the ARABS and Jews in a War about who was being sacrificed on that great beginning day.

Gee, and I thought the ongoing hostility between the Israelis and Arabs had to do with the existence of Israel on land the Arabs claim as Palestinian. I've read a lot of statements from the various Middle East players, and I must have missed the part about "who was being sacrificed." In fact, I don't think either Arabs or Israelis really care, since neither of them view Christ as the Messiah. Muslims view Christ as one in a succession of prophets. The Jews view Christ as a false Messiah.

Jews claim that it was the beginning of the 12 tribes threw the sparred Child.

Arabs believe the exact same thing threw the Arab child.

And what, precisely does this have to do with Christ?

One is a copy cat one is a liar one is false you judge and choose what the trueth is . But don't let religious Dogma sway you. YOU CHOOSE when you Choose what to believe. You also pass JUDGEMENT! Look out you are not capable to judge.

There seems to be a slight inconsistency here. You're saying people should judge what the truth is, and then you say people aren't capable of judging.

Man, I think you need to adjust your meds.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: LunarRay

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
No Jesus Was the Fulfillment of the Coventant between God and Abraham . The end of the Blood sacrifice. Threw his Blood and suffering on the Cross at the hands of Rome but choosen to suffer by the Jews . Over Barbius

Would that be Klaus Barbius, the infamous Butcher of Lyon? Or was that Klaus Barbi? It's so easy to get confused.

Or perhaps you mean the fictional "bandit" called "Barabbas" in the bible.

Did you know that before the Bible was compiled, this bandit was referred to as "Jesus Barabbas" in the constituent texts? Did you also know that "Barabbas" is theorized to have been a contraction of "Bar Abba" = "son of the father?"

Son of the father? Gee, that sounds familiar, doesn't it? But I don't want to confuse you any further. Faith is a quirky thing.

It's so odd, though. The crucifixion of Christ is hailed by Christians as the ultimate act of atonement for the sins of Man. And yet the Jews are BLAMED for the crucifixion? If Christ had NOT been crucified, the whole atonement business would have been a non-starter, and with it the whole Christian religion.

So can someone explain to me why Jews are hated as "Christ killers?"

Well... I can.. and did above in my post.

It is not a significant factor or even to do with Jesus' mission on Earth.

If you seek answers why ask us? IF seeking repulses you by the logic of your mind then ask of the planet in the sky. If you get no answer is there no planet or is there no God? IF you are answered it shall be heard in your heart and not your mind but the question will remain as will the answer.

In this thread, I'm not asking questions to further my own knowledge. Rather, I'm using a sneaky rhetorical device called the "rhetorical question" in the hope of jarring loose a cog or two in a few self-satisfied minds.

And my specific rhetorical question about the killing of Christ wasn't directed at you, since you're obviously a reasonable individual who actually thinks about what he believes.

 

[StageLeft]

I came upon the book of Ecclesiastes yesterday. Apparently my conclusions earlier in this thread had already been determined by a king some thousands of years ago. I thought it was a good read

 

[LunarRay]

Moonbeam,

MB: I think there are a million fishes in the sea but that they all swim in water, the same water that is in your blood.
One fish is born a king and another a pauper. The degree to which we differ, one from the other, is vastly more decided by the environment than our DNA.
And, Et. seq.

LR: Not sure if the difference you discussed is twixt fishy and human or among humans or among fishy but in either case there are big differences. A king fish human what don't got the appropriate genes can't create a Jupiter Symphony in C major. And, while I run to get my Slide Rule a Savant can do all sorts of incredible stuff In his mind.
This don't occur the result of the environment to any significant degree. It is cuz they made that way. Their brain functions in a way that enables the mind to do those amazing feats. Even to the food we find tasty... You like squiggly eels and I detest them.

I can't disagree or agree with the substance of what you believe because it is YOUR mind's conclusion based on YOUR mind. I accept it for what it is. I've not seen God - by which I mean Jesus - or had any revelation from near death experience that God existed or any other kind of introduction. My faith is mine. There may be some similar or even some that might more sense but I'd not know it. Every bit of 'Organized Religion' that I've encountered has not strengthened nor weakened my faith. I don't bounce rationalization off faith.

 

[LunarRay]

Shira,
You mentioned the Arab, who I presume would be Islamic, didn't believe Jesus to be the messiah.

"In Islam, Isa (Jesus) is also called the Messiah (Masih), but like in Judaism he is not considered to be the literal physical Son of God"

I'm not conversant with Islam but had this notion that they did consider him the Messiah. I looked and tried to garner an understanding of what that would have meant to their faith, if anything. The best I can determine is that the Messiah is for the Jew but not Islam. I think Islam considers the Messiah to be 'King of the Jews' or like that and a major prophet.

Regarding the rhetorical(s), I pretty much saw what you were attempting to do. You'll notice, I'm sure, that our friend has pretty much sated his quest for historical truth to support faith. Paul Harvey always had a 'The rest of the story' but some turned off the radio before that.
I'd love to discuss 'The DaVinci Code' in the context of the life of Jesus instead of mailing copies to the Taliban That discussion would outrage with out merit, I think. In those days it would be normal for a 30 yr old to have been married and etc. Actually, I'd think folks would have thought him abnormal otherwise. So abnormal that he'd have been hard pressed to then claim to be the Messiah. But, that is another story.

 

[shubh09]

Today's Christians have narrowed the definition of "Christian" so much that it excludes everything and everyone embarrassing to Christianity. Hitler was baptized a Christian and said he was promoting "Positive Christianity."While atheists often accuse Christians of limiting the definition of Christianity, they expand it to the extent that it is meaningless - such as calling Hitler a Christian when his definition of "Positive Christianity" was "Positive Christianity is National Socialism . . . .

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: shubh09
Today's Christians have narrowed the definition of "Christian" so much that it excludes everything and everyone embarrassing to Christianity. Hitler was baptized a Christian and said he was promoting "Positive Christianity."While atheists often accuse Christians of limiting the definition of Christianity, they expand it to the extent that it is meaningless - such as calling Hitler a Christian when his definition of "Positive Christianity" was "Positive Christianity is National Socialism . . . .

Well Stalin was an Orthodox Roman who supprted the church and built several Churches one of them in his own name, he also used religion as a means to his end.

The thing is, anyone can do that if you have followers who believe in an afterlife and that is why while general religious ideas are dangerous, personal religious ideas are not.

Don't make me cite all the examples, it would take several forum pages to fill the list.

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: LunarRay
Shira,
You mentioned the Arab, who I presume would be Islamic, didn't believe Jesus to be the messiah.

"In Islam, Isa (Jesus) is also called the Messiah (Masih), but like in Judaism he is not considered to be the literal physical Son of God"

I'm not conversant with Islam but had this notion that they did consider him the Messiah. I looked and tried to garner an understanding of what that would have meant to their faith, if anything. The best I can determine is that the Messiah is for the Jew but not Islam. I think Islam considers the Messiah to be 'King of the Jews' or like that and a major prophet.

Regarding the rhetorical(s), I pretty much saw what you were attempting to do. You'll notice, I'm sure, that our friend has pretty much sated his quest for historical truth to support faith. Paul Harvey always had a 'The rest of the story' but some turned off the radio before that.
I'd love to discuss 'The DaVinci Code' in the context of the life of Jesus instead of mailing copies to the Taliban That discussion would outrage with out merit, I think. In those days it would be normal for a 30 yr old to have been married and etc. Actually, I'd think folks would have thought him abnormal otherwise. So abnormal that he'd have been hard pressed to then claim to be the Messiah. But, that is another story.

Well you are wrong about Jesus being the Messiah in Judaism or Islam. He is seen as a prophet of the real Messiah in Islam and as pretty much nothing more than another human in Judaism.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
Christ Died at HANDS of ROme. Jews made choice. I am not capable of passing judgement. But you really do not understand what the covenement betwwen God and Abramam was . But a refresher for ya . Sarah was barron . She gave an egyptian handmaiden to Abramham had Arab baby . Later like Mary an angle came to sarah and said she would have Abrahams childs the second child .

God did command Abraham to sacrific one of the children . I won't get into which one the aurgument not worth it. Point is God stopped it a substitututed a goat for blood sacrific.

Jesus Christ fulfilled the covent between God and Man.

I'm gettin' a wee bit confused here, laddie. If Christ fulfilled the covenant, then the Jews were doing what God wanted, right? They were doing his will, to satisfy their solemn agreement with God. That would be a GOOD thing, right?

But YOU say, "Jews made choice," as if it were a BAD thing. Can you reconcile this disconnect?

NO more sacrificies. NO more anything . Christ said 2 come after one false one true . NO others no nothing . Christ was the end of the old covenant.

What Rome released on the world was not Christ teachings but the teaching of rome so as to control the hearts and minds of men.

Somehow you cant get by the Father of Great nation . If that were all there was to it . We wouldn't Have the ARABS and Jews in a War about who was being sacrificed on that great beginning day.

Gee, and I thought the ongoing hostility between the Israelis and Arabs had to do with the existence of Israel on land the Arabs claim as Palestinian. I've read a lot of statements from the various Middle East players, and I must have missed the part about "who was being sacrificed." In fact, I don't think either Arabs or Israelis really care, since neither of them view Christ as the Messiah. Muslims view Christ as one in a succession of prophets. The Jews view Christ as a false Messiah.

Jews claim that it was the beginning of the 12 tribes threw the sparred Child.

Arabs believe the exact same thing threw the Arab child.

And what, precisely does this have to do with Christ?

One is a copy cat one is a liar one is false you judge and choose what the trueth is . But don't let religious Dogma sway you. YOU CHOOSE when you Choose what to believe. You also pass JUDGEMENT! Look out you are not capable to judge.

Man, I think you need to adjust your meds.

Here I will help you . YOU said

Gee, and I thought the ongoing hostility between the Israelis and Arabs had to do with the existence of Israel on land the Arabs claim as Palestinian.

Ya you would think that . But the hate between the 2 is almost unspeakable.

I take it you don't know the legend Of Abraham and Sarah . I will give ya short refresher.

1) Abraham and Sarah 2 hebrew. Were growing old. sarah feeling she could not bare a child . So she Gave her handmaiden an egyptian a daughter of Cain She bared Abraham a male child (First Born )

2). Angle appears to Sarah rells her she shall have a child . She does . A male Child (Second Born )

3) God commands Abraham to sacrific a Child on the Alter. Abrahem Obeys, Just befor Abraham was to strike Angle stopped him . Instead said the Angle sacrifice the Ram stuck fasy in bushes.

Ever since the Arabs and Jews been fighting over which Child God Did command to be sacrificied the First born a decendent of CAIN or the Second born a Hebrew. By tradition it would be the First born . But to know full story much research. Ever Since these 2 been at war .



YOU SAID

I'm gettin' a wee bit confused here, laddie. If Christ fulfilled the covenant, then the Jews were doing what God wanted, right? They were doing his will, to satisfy their solemn agreement with God. That would be a GOOD thing, right?

But YOU say, "Jews made choice," as if it were a BAD thing. Can you reconcile this disconnect?

Every one involved made free choice. Knowing outcome doesn't change that. Abraham was Commmanded by GOD to sacrifice his SON . GoD stopped him and A Ram was substatuded for the scrafice. God Allowed his own Son to be sacrificed and Christ allowed it of his own free will. The BLOOD SACRIFICE was COMPLETED . Christ ended it by offerring himself for US. THast was the END of it. Period. All hebrew prophecy was Fulfilled IN CGRIST . JEWS just don't except it they wanted worldly Messiah. NOT spritual .

YOU SAID

There seems to be a slight inconsistency here. You're saying people should judge what the truth is, and then you say people aren't capable of judging.


No inconsistancy at all . You judge what to believe you choose its your choice. But judging others actions are not in our uncapable hands . Judgement of deeds belongs to GOD!

 

[JohnOfSheffield]

Originally posted by: Skoorb
I came upon the book of Ecclesiastes yesterday. Apparently my conclusions earlier in this thread had already been determined by a king some thousands of years ago. I thought it was a good read

Name the verse and please explain yourself.

You make it sound like you actually believe that someone in the bible predicted a discussion you have had on the internet in the recent days... I don't think you meant that though, i really really hope you didn't.