On Atheism vs. Christianity

[shira]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There is a thing called God-Alcohol that produces a Religious realization-Intoxication that creates Religions-Pink Elephants and attacking those Religions-Pink Elephants delusions of the Religiously realized-Intoxicated does nothing to shake their faith in God-Alcohol because of that very Religiously realized-intoxication.

He who drinks from the well of God's love collapses time and space and ceases to exist in this world. Your admonitions that he is deluded will not reach him for he has hidden himself so completely behind you that he looks our of your own eyes.

Well, you were making sense until that final phrase. Anyone looking out of MY eyes might well be deluded, but certainly not with God-alcohol.

Maybe this will make what I meant more clear.

Actually, it doesn't.

This article about the beliefs of Eckhart of Hochheim (of whom I'm well aware), is speaking of Satchidananda (misspelled in that article), or the supposed bliss that comes from the awareness of oneness with the beloved (which can be God or a lover). Naturally, I think the concept is nonsensical (but I wish it weren't).

But regardless, Satchidananda has nothing to do with the phrase of yours I bolded. If you had written that God was gazing through my eyes and vice versa, this article would be relevant. But you weren't; you were referring to true believers, the imbibers of the God-alcohol, as you put it. There's no I-am-they-and-they-are-I between me and the God-alcoholics.

I appreciate your creativity and flair with phrasing, Moonie, but sometimes you get things a little mixed up. I forgive you.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
There is a thing called God-Alcohol that produces a Religious realization-Intoxication that creates Religions-Pink Elephants and attacking those Religions-Pink Elephants delusions of the Religiously realized-Intoxicated does nothing to shake their faith in God-Alcohol because of that very Religiously realized-intoxication.

He who drinks from the well of God's love collapses time and space and ceases to exist in this world. Your admonitions that he is deluded will not reach him for he has hidden himself so completely behind you that he looks our of your own eyes.

Well, you were making sense until that final phrase. Anyone looking out of MY eyes might well be deluded, but certainly not with God-alcohol.

Maybe this will make what I meant more clear.

Actually, it doesn't.

This article about the beliefs of Eckhart of Hochheim (of whom I'm well aware), is speaking of Satchidananda (misspelled in that article), or the supposed bliss that comes from the awareness of oneness with the beloved (which can be God or a lover). Naturally, I think the concept is nonsensical (but I wish it weren't).

But regardless, Satchidananda has nothing to do with the phrase of yours I bolded. If you had written that God was gazing through my eyes and vice versa, this article would be relevant. But you weren't; you were referring to true believers, the imbibers of the God-alcohol, as you put it. There's no I-am-they-and-they-are-I between me and the God-alcoholics.

I appreciate your creativity and flair with phrasing, Moonie, but sometimes you get things a little mixed up. I forgive you.

I think he was calling us God.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: shira
I just watched a video of Usain Bolt running 19.19 last week in the 2009 World Track and Field championships. I'd watched that video several times before. I knew exactly what the outcome of the race would be. To say in this situation , "I had expectations today that Usain Bolt would run a 19.19 in 200 meters" is just nonsensical. I had no "expectations" whatsoever.

I bet you that if Usain watches it, he gets some emotional charge from it. Unless you were some huge Bolt fan I would not expect you to get any thrill one way or the other regarding your example.

Edit: My use of "Expectations" merely refers to God wanting us to hold to a standard. His desire for us to hold to a standard is an expectation for us to do something. I am not sure what "tense" or grammatical form I am using the word, but it is not the same as how you are thinking. I thought that was evident, but I am not the best communicator, so maybe not.

So... if God.. watches a video of himself.. I think I lost track of this metaphor.

Anyway, how do you make these claims about what God desires for us, or what his intentions are?

It doesn't matter who the viewer is, the point is just that knowing the outcome does not inhibit emotional reaction. Obviously encountering an unknown probably would bring about a stronger emotion.. not necessarily though.

I am referring to the Christian God, so my claims come from the Bible.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: shira
I just watched a video of Usain Bolt running 19.19 last week in the 2009 World Track and Field championships. I'd watched that video several times before. I knew exactly what the outcome of the race would be. To say in this situation , "I had expectations today that Usain Bolt would run a 19.19 in 200 meters" is just nonsensical. I had no "expectations" whatsoever.

I bet you that if Usain watches it, he gets some emotional charge from it. Unless you were some huge Bolt fan I would not expect you to get any thrill one way or the other regarding your example.

Edit: My use of "Expectations" merely refers to God wanting us to hold to a standard. His desire for us to hold to a standard is an expectation for us to do something. I am not sure what "tense" or grammatical form I am using the word, but it is not the same as how you are thinking. I thought that was evident, but I am not the best communicator, so maybe not.

So... if God.. watches a video of himself.. I think I lost track of this metaphor.

Anyway, how do you make these claims about what God desires for us, or what his intentions are?

It doesn't matter who the viewer is, the point is just that knowing the outcome does not inhibit emotional reaction. Obviously encountering an unknown probably would bring about a stronger emotion.. not necessarily though.

I am referring to the Christian God, so my claims come from the Bible.

So which Christian God you referring to? The God of Moses who did do his own killing. Or the Latter GOD who spoke to Man and caused them to Kill in his Name.

I see a differance between the 2 . The God of Moses is scary powerful . The god that uses man to do his bidding is NO GOD . Show me a a GOD like Moses GOD . Not one that is used to break Gods own commandments for he is not god but evil. If he were GOD he do his own killing . For GOD commands us not to kill.

 

[Moonbeam]

So I'm saying to myself if I'm God, what am I going to do with shira. Obviously I have to send him to Hell for challenging my absolute power and knowledge while at the same time I don't want to feel like a prick about it since I always knew that's what he'd do since I predetermined him to be that way and even worse, he's holding that up in my face.

Well the simplest answer I can come up with of the top of my rather large head is that just before I get all enraged and womp his ass I'm going to will myself to forget I made him.

 

[Moonbeam]

M: Maybe this will make what I meant more clear.[/quote]

s: Actually, it doesn't.

This article about the beliefs of Eckhart of Hochheim (of whom I'm well aware), is speaking of Satchidananda (misspelled in that article), or the supposed bliss that comes from the awareness of oneness with the beloved (which can be God or a lover). Naturally, I think the concept is nonsensical (but I wish it weren't).

M: I didn't mean more clear in that you would experience oneness because of some words, but that I refer to that experience other have had.

s: But regardless, Satchidananda has nothing to do with the phrase of yours I bolded. If you had written that God was gazing through my eyes and vice versa, this article would be relevant. But you weren't; you were referring to true believers, the imbibers of the God-alcohol, as you put it. There's no I-am-they-and-they-are-I between me and the God-alcoholics.

M: None you are consciously aware of obviously. In you this truth sleeps. You haven't had the realization Eckhart did.

s: I appreciate your creativity and flair with phrasing, Moonie, but sometimes you get things a little mixed up. I forgive you.

M: Not a problem. The finger pointing at the moon in not the moon. Mix up is the state we are in.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So I'm saying to myself if I'm God, what am I going to do with shira. Obviously I have to send him to Hell for challenging my absolute power and knowledge while at the same time I don't want to feel like a prick about it since I always knew that's what he'd do since I predetermined him to be that way and even worse, he's holding that up in my face.

Well the simplest answer I can come up with of the top of my rather large head is that just before I get all enraged and womp his ass I'm going to will myself to forget I made him.

God doesn't predetermine people to be any way. People make their own choices. Of by predetermine you mean foreknowledge+creation, it is still choice of the man to do what he wants.

edit: As God has said in His Word, He does not delight in the death of the unrighteous. However, He can not tolerate sin, and all are unrighteous. People have a choice. As is fairly evident, people are unable to live up to His righteous requirements. That is why Christ died for us all- to take on the punishment that we deserve. Whether or not we accept that is up to us.

 

[spittledip]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: CoinOperatedBoy

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: shira
I just watched a video of Usain Bolt running 19.19 last week in the 2009 World Track and Field championships. I'd watched that video several times before. I knew exactly what the outcome of the race would be. To say in this situation , "I had expectations today that Usain Bolt would run a 19.19 in 200 meters" is just nonsensical. I had no "expectations" whatsoever.

I bet you that if Usain watches it, he gets some emotional charge from it. Unless you were some huge Bolt fan I would not expect you to get any thrill one way or the other regarding your example.

Edit: My use of "Expectations" merely refers to God wanting us to hold to a standard. His desire for us to hold to a standard is an expectation for us to do something. I am not sure what "tense" or grammatical form I am using the word, but it is not the same as how you are thinking. I thought that was evident, but I am not the best communicator, so maybe not.

So... if God.. watches a video of himself.. I think I lost track of this metaphor.

Anyway, how do you make these claims about what God desires for us, or what his intentions are?

It doesn't matter who the viewer is, the point is just that knowing the outcome does not inhibit emotional reaction. Obviously encountering an unknown probably would bring about a stronger emotion.. not necessarily though.

I am referring to the Christian God, so my claims come from the Bible.

So which Christian God you referring to? The God of Moses who did do his own killing. Or the Latter GOD who spoke to Man and caused them to Kill in his Name.

I see a differance between the 2 . The God of Moses is scary powerful . The god that uses man to do his bidding is NO GOD . Show me a a GOD like Moses GOD . Not one that is used to break Gods own commandments for he is not god but evil. If he were GOD he do his own killing . For GOD commands us not to kill.

I don't really know what you are referring to.. sorry.

 

[Moonbeam]

Originally posted by: spittledip

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So I'm saying to myself if I'm God, what am I going to do with shira. Obviously I have to send him to Hell for challenging my absolute power and knowledge while at the same time I don't want to feel like a prick about it since I always knew that's what he'd do since I predetermined him to be that way and even worse, he's holding that up in my face.

Well the simplest answer I can come up with of the top of my rather large head is that just before I get all enraged and womp his ass I'm going to will myself to forget I made him.

God doesn't predetermine people to be any way. People make their own choices. Of by predetermine you mean foreknowledge+creation, it is still choice of the man to do what he wants.

If somebody knows what I am going to choose before I do I don't have choice. That's how I see it. But I didn't get myself all knotted up in a ball by creating absolutes. My God gets to be as surprised by what I do as I do.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: Moonbeam
So I'm saying to myself if I'm God, what am I going to do with shira. Obviously I have to send him to Hell for challenging my absolute power and knowledge while at the same time I don't want to feel like a prick about it since I always knew that's what he'd do since I predetermined him to be that way and even worse, he's holding that up in my face.

Well the simplest answer I can come up with of the top of my rather large head is that just before I get all enraged and womp his ass I'm going to will myself to forget I made him.

Your stuck on the Fact that God is omni present.

God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

 

[IcePickFreak]

Meh, this thread make me appreciate being agnostic.

 

[imported_gardener]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Your stuck on the Fact that God is omni present.

God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

28 pages of bullshit and this is where you end up, either your name was in a book before you were born, or it wasn't.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: gardener

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1

Your stuck on the Fact that God is omni present.

God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

28 pages of bullshit and this is where you end up, either your name was in a book before you were born, or it wasn't.

Yes. When I was taught this and seen it in scripture it set off many alarms. But They taught me enough for me to know that I don't know GODS nature and to pretend I do would be fruitless. You have to remember that There was a WAR in Heaven before man over man. Even tho Satan lost that war . Satan is still in heaven he has not been cast out yet. I sure if it happens as written we will all know that day, As far as I can tell from scripture Satan is and was flesh! You and I are talking about 2 differant things . Your talking about the gods / watchers/angels. I am talking about the Brain trust that made life possiable 2 differant enities . There is only 1 GOD and that GOD does his own Killing . Why would God Ask man or Command man to do that which he commands them not to. Your saying GOD is a liar. I am saying thats impossiable. Your saying GOD is a trickster. I am saying NOT. There more than 1 god at work here . But only 1 true GOD.

 

[imported_gardener]

I'm saying that you believe what you were told to believe, and that you aren't good at math.

 

[Nemesis 1]

Originally posted by: gardener
I'm saying that you believe what you were told to believe, and that you aren't good at math.

Show me any religion that believes what I believe . No religion could stand in my beliefes. It would fall in on itself. My belief is choice and that God is the only being with authority , No others. I only believe that were not accidents or happen stance. I believe that there is NO law. other than obedience to God. As far as I can tell God commands less from us than MAN does . Whos the bad guy here?

 

[IcePickFreak]

I've read a lot of things, all of which as I recall were written by man - the ever opinionated and corruptible man.

 

[WHAMPOM]

Belief in an Almighty God is just a mental defect, as proof I recommend you read the posts in this topic.

 

[babylon5]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Belief in an Almighty God is just a mental defect, as proof I recommend you read the posts in this topic.

:thumbsup:

 

[LumbergTech]

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Belief in an Almighty God is just a mental defect, as proof I recommend you read the posts in this topic.

wasting your time posting insults like this is a sign of a mental defect..

you do realize that religious people have created some very important things? there have been many religious scientists in the past...even if you dont agree with their viewpoints on everything its quite ridiculous to marginalize people simply because you dont believe in one thing or another

think about politics...death penalty vs non death penalty ..abortion vs no abortion ...there are good people on both sides and they should be judged on what they do and what they contribute instead of being mocked for their beliefs.....its very tempting to dismiss someone who disagrees with you by saying they are mentally deficient, but its a trap of the mind...the bitterness will harm you

 

[Red Irish]

There is considerable evidence to suggest that all monotheistic Semitic religions can be traced back to the innovative religious changes introduced by a pharaoh named Akhenaten:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Akhenaten

Despite the differences that their practioners take pains to emphasise, Judaism, Christianity and Islam, in all likelihood, owe their existence to this single source.

Atheists, if you need somebody to blame, blame this guy.

 

[CoinOperatedBoy]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech

Originally posted by: WHAMPOM
Belief in an Almighty God is just a mental defect, as proof I recommend you read the posts in this topic.

wasting your time posting insults like this is a sign of a mental defect..

you do realize that religious people have created some very important things? there have been many religious scientists in the past...even if you dont agree with their viewpoints on everything its quite ridiculous to marginalize people simply because you dont believe in one thing or another

think about politics...death penalty vs non death penalty ..abortion vs no abortion ...there are good people on both sides and they should be judged on what they do and what they contribute instead of being mocked for their beliefs.....its very tempting to dismiss someone who disagrees with you by saying they are mentally deficient, but its a trap of the mind...the bitterness will harm you

To play devil's advocate, all of that doesn't mean that unfounded belief is not evidence of some mental defect. That is, just because someone has done great things with their life doesn't mean they don't have something wrong with them. For example, those amazing true stories portrayed in the films Rain Man and Forrest Gump.

 

[shira]

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea. Since each of our names is on or not on the list, and there's NOTHING that can be done to get our names added or removed, it's clear our actions here on Earth are futile. So, why doesn't God just show us the damn book and let us know our fate? Then, the truly righteous can continue striving for righteousness and live up to their destiny. And those of us already doomed to eternal damnation won't have to try so hard at being righteous, and can have some fun.

But your post has absolutely clarified to me that each of us has free choice, and thus control over our own destinies. I can see how rational and compelling this logic is, and how impossible it is NOT to believe. :disgust:

 

[MotF Bane]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea. Since each of our names is on or not on the list, and there's NOTHING that can be done to get our names added or removed, it's clear our actions here on Earth are futile. So, why doesn't God just show us the damn book and let us know our fate? Then, the truly righteous can continue striving for righteousness and live up to their destiny. And those of us already doomed to eternal damnation won't have to try so hard at being righteous, and can have some fun.

But your post has absolutely clarified to me that each of us has free choice, and thus control over our own destinies. I can see how rational and compelling this logic is, and how impossible it is NOT to believe. :disgust:

If you can't get your name removed, then even those who are going to heaven can do anything they want. Fuck being good!

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: LumbergTech
wasting your time posting insults like this is a sign of a mental defect..

you do realize that religious people have created some very important things? there have been many religious scientists in the past...even if you dont agree with their viewpoints on everything its quite ridiculous to marginalize people simply because you dont believe in one thing or another

think about politics...death penalty vs non death penalty ..abortion vs no abortion ...there are good people on both sides and they should be judged on what they do and what they contribute instead of being mocked for their beliefs.....its very tempting to dismiss someone who disagrees with you by saying they are mentally deficient, but its a trap of the mind...the bitterness will harm you

Passing mythology as fact is a mental defect no matter what anyone does with their life. And these childish mythologies we call religions have negative social and psychological consequences.

My best friend is an electrical engineer currently getting his master's degree. He had a female lab partner in some of his classes. She was a really good electrical engineer, but she was a total nutter Christian. She told my friend that he would go to Hell if he didn't accept Jesus. Of course he now and forever thinks of her as a fruitcake, end of story. Of course what happened was her parents taught her all this nonsense and now she is going around spreading it to other people who want nothing of it.

People with strong religious beliefs should be marginalized for the sake of everyone else's sanity.

 

[Dissipate]

Originally posted by: shira

Originally posted by: Nemesis 1
God gave a gift to man called free choice . You get to choose even if God knows your choice. YOU still Choose . The Book of life existed befor man . Every mans name in it shall be saved . No names will be removed or added to the list . From time beginning man.

Charity begets Faith, Faith is in HOPE! In more than just GOD. Man is a player here also.

Hey, I've got a GREAT idea. Since each of our names is on or not on the list, and there's NOTHING that can be done to get our names added or removed, it's clear our actions here on Earth are futile. So, why doesn't God just show us the damn book and let us know our fate? Then, the truly righteous can continue striving for righteousness and live up to their destiny. And those of us already doomed to eternal damnation won't have to try so hard at being righteous, and can have some fun.

But your post has absolutely clarified to me that each of us has free choice, and thus control over our own destinies. I can see how rational and compelling this logic is, and how impossible it is NOT to believe. :disgust:

Wow, you are trying to sort out all that nonsense? :Q