On creating what we fear:

[Moonbeam]

lol

I remember shopping in San Francisco in a major department store and watched to my amazement a professional hypnotist selling , I think some kind of cutlery. I watched as ne whipped the crowd that gathered to watch is demonstration whipped into a lather of envy and jealousy as he manipulated their egos with masterful aplomb. I wish I had a video of that event but that was way before the time of mobile phones or digital cameras. The thing I remember most was the free samples he was going to give away that he had piled at the front of his desk and as he spoke he would draw a few back and repeat. You could see the crown move closer to be the first in line to get one of these wondrous tools. And so it goes.

I never had the slightest interest in the AR 15 until I saw the hysteria about them and other guns on this forum and decided to investigate. I dug out my guns that I hadn't looked at in decades and started to clean them up. I had to learn a lot and I bought all manner of tools and enjoyed the process. I began to study the AR platform and decided to build one before the idiot Democrats in Sacramento took them all away. I had to pass tests and pay fees. You have to study to know how to build one that is Cal legal and still featureless. It's a shame I live in a state where Politicians care more about becoming marching morons rather than protecting shooter's hearing by banning silencers. I hope the Supreme court declares that law unconstitutional as it is based on little but arrogant ignorance.

If hippopotamus shoes become a political issue, California Democrats will instantly claim world authority on the subject of what laws should govern them.

 

[Moonbeam]

You are disgusting because I point out your ridiculous hypocritical bullshit pontificating.

The simple fact is gun nuts like you are responsible for the current gun violence we have in today's America. All that blood is on your hands too. You refuse to acknowledge the very simple fact that guns contribute to gun violence. It's disgusting.

You refuse to acknowledge the reality of the people we are facing who are trying to oppress us. I'm going to go around and shoot random people. Look who's projecting their self hate now you jackfuckwagon.

Ran across this just now in Google News:

Google News

Comprehensive up-to-date news coverage, aggregated from sources all over the world by Google News.

news.google.com

 

[cytg111]

I remember shopping in San Francisco in a major department store and watched to my amazement a professional hypnotist selling , I think some kind of cutlery. I watched as ne whipped the crowd that gathered to watch is demonstration whipped into a lather of envy and jealousy as he manipulated their egos with masterful aplomb. I wish I had a video of that event but that was way before the time of mobile phones or digital cameras. The thing I remember most was the free samples he was going to give away that he had piled at the front of his desk and as he spoke he would draw a few back and repeat. You could see the crown move closer to be the first in line to get one of these wondrous tools. And so it goes.

I never had the slightest interest in the AR 15 until I saw the hysteria about them and other guns on this forum and decided to investigate. I dug out my guns that I hadn't looked at in decades and started to clean them up. I had to learn a lot and I bought all manner of tools and enjoyed the process. I began to study the AR platform and decided to build one before the idiot Democrats in Sacramento took them all away. I had to pass tests and pay fees. You have to study to know how to build one that is Cal legal and still featureless. It's a shame I live in a state where Politicians care more about becoming marching morons rather than protecting shooter's hearing by banning silencers. I hope the Supreme court declares that law unconstitutional as it is based on little but arrogant ignorance.

If hippopotamus shoes become a political issue, California Democrats will instantly claim world authority on the subject of what laws should govern them.

When is the last time you fired a gun?

 

[mikeymikec]

Thanks to Trump they will now inexorably lose elections

No-one (aside from GQP supporters) fears that the GQP will lose elections. What I fear are the consequences of them losing another election, ie. Jan 6th was a rehearsal.

Liberals should take care not to make the same mistake. There are some pretty radically hateful people who post on this forum who continue naturally, in just a small additive way, to turn that wheel. Disgust is something we need not to indulge but to transcend. Do you see this or do you disagree?

The same mistake? GQP supporters at the very least tolerate being on the same side of the fence as literal Nazis.

How are people who are not GQP supporters "creating what they fear"? GQP supporters literally make up shit to justify their completely irrational hate of pretty much anyone who isn't a cis white church-going heterosexual male. The GQP has already attempted to subvert democracy and undermine the rule of law through its SC appointees.

Your only example of this 'hate' (aside from the GQP) you describe is MrSquished, so the basis of your argument seems pretty paper-thin to me.

Very occasionally do I see 'not GQP supporters' advocating similar shit to the GQP (like Greenman on another thread nigh-on admitting that he secretly wants group X lined up and shot) on say imgur, but they tend to be posts with no upvotes (ie. a score or 1 or less).

My main problem with what you've written here is that you've cited nothing to support your argument that 'liberals' (whoever the fuck they are) are in any way becoming what they behold, it's this long vague "hate is bad" statement which suggests that more civilised people than GQP supporters should try to moderate their feelings. To which I'd respond with two quotes:

Quote of the Day: Martin Luther King, Jr.

Quote of the Day: Martin Luther King, Jr.

www.hartford-hwp.com

It's funny how America has this rep of "freedom above all"; plenty of you will cry because you might not continue to have the unfettered and entirely unnecessary access to firearms that you crave, yet when the GQP are actively taking away your freedom to be who you want to be, agency over what goes on in your own body, subversion of the democratic process that gives you at least some influence over the laws being made in your country, you're like <shrugs> "let's be moderate and calm about this!".

 

[Moonbeam]

When is the last time you fired a gun?

Maybe 40 years ago. I'm not sure. I bought a 9mm Colt Combat Commander from a guy I new who needed money. Went to the range with another friend and shot a clip or two. It was loud and not that pleasant to shoot. Plus I don't like being at a gun range. Too much regimentation. My idea of fun would be shooting a rifle in the country from a cement table and a gun cradle under a big umbrella on a calm weather warm but not hot day. I'd also like all of that outside my back door.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Maybe 40 years ago. I'm not sure. I bought a 9mm Colt Combat Commander from a guy I new who needed money. Went to the range with another friend and shot a clip or two. It was loud and not that pleasant to shoot. Plus I don't like being at a gun range. Too much regimentation. My idea of fun would be shooting a rifle in the country from a cement table and a gun cradle under a big umbrella on a calm weather warm but not hot day. I'd also like all of that outside my back door.

Weird that you have 40 years without any practice with a firearm. How effective do you think you'll be when the y'allqeda attacks? Do you think a silencer or a 100-mag drum mag is really going to help if you have almost no recent experience with your tools?

There's regimentation at a range because the guns are really good at their job, and strict guidelines is how we maintain order and reduce risks. It's baffling how you can't see this, or how your day dreaming about the perfect shooting environment directly translates to lackadaisical gun control, the recipe for death.

 

[Moonbeam]

No-one (aside from GQP supporters) fears that the GQP will lose elections. What I fear are the consequences of them losing another election, ie. Jan 6th was a rehearsal.



The same mistake? GQP supporters at the very least tolerate being on the same side of the fence as literal Nazis.

How are people who are not GQP supporters "creating what they fear"? GQP supporters literally make up shit to justify their completely irrational hate of pretty much anyone who isn't a cis white church-going heterosexual male. The GQP has already attempted to subvert democracy and undermine the rule of law through its SC appointees.

Your only example of this 'hate' (aside from the GQP) you describe is MrSquished, so the basis of your argument seems pretty paper-thin to me.

Very occasionally do I see 'not GQP supporters' advocating similar shit to the GQP (like Greenman on another thread nigh-on admitting that he secretly wants group X lined up and shot) on say imgur, but they tend to be posts with no upvotes (ie. a score or 1 or less).

My main problem with what you've written here is that you've cited nothing to support your argument that 'liberals' (whoever the fuck they are) are in any way becoming what they behold, it's this long vague "hate is bad" statement which suggests that more civilised people than GQP supporters should try to moderate their feelings. To which I'd respond with two quotes:

Quote of the Day: Martin Luther King, Jr.

Quote of the Day: Martin Luther King, Jr.

www.hartford-hwp.com

It's funny how America has this rep of "freedom above all"; plenty of you will cry because you might not continue to have the unfettered and entirely unnecessary access to firearms that you crave, yet when the GQP are actively taking away your freedom to be who you want to be, agency over what goes on in your own body, subversion of the democratic process that gives you at least some influence over the laws being made in your country, you're like <shrugs> "let's be moderate and calm about this!".

Anger gets shit done all right. It creates what it hates. Anger is like a hammer to which everything looks like a nail. You are ignorant of the reality of anger because you are afraid to see that anger manifests when you see the self you hate out there in other people. You were personally shown what contempt for worthless people looks like when you were told that's you. What you fear is remembering how you came to hate evil.

 

[mikeymikec]

Anger gets shit done all right. It creates what it hates. Anger is like a hammer to which everything looks like a nail.

Nope, this is just another generalisation.

Anger *can* be expressed in a "Anger is like a hammer to which everything looks like a nail" way, but to imply that it always does this is like saying that lustful feelings always result in rape.

You are ignorant of the reality of anger because you are afraid to see that anger manifests when you see the self you hate out there in other people. You were personally shown what contempt for worthless people looks like when you were told that's you. What you fear is remembering how you came to hate evil.

Please provide an example of my "contempt for worthless people".

 

[Moonbeam]

Weird that you have 40 years without any practice with a firearm. How effective do you think you'll be when the y'allqeda attacks? Do you think a silencer or a 100-mag drum mag is really going to help if you have almost no recent experience with your tools?

There's regimentation at a range because the guns are really good at their job, and strict guidelines is how we maintain order and reduce risks. It's baffling how you can't see this, or how your day dreaming about the perfect shooting environment directly translates to lackadaisical gun control, the recipe for death.

You need to look on the bright side. In my ideal shooting experience the only person who could get shot is me. Effectiveness is for gun nuts. I want to take as long as I can before I shoot somebody. I already have to remember where a gun is I want to use, find the ammo, load by which time I'm probably already dead. Sure training would help that, but it's also not something I want to spend time and money doing. For me guns are about the pleasure of owning them, not the effort involved in being highly trained to kill.

I have been underprepared to defend myself at a moment's notice all of my life and expect to die without ever needing a gun. But I have, I believe, a moral duty to defend myself and others from dangerously mentally ill people. Having a gun with potential to be used in maybe 15 minutes of so is sufficient for me. I'm happy with that.

 

[Moonbeam]

Nope, this is just another generalisation.

Anger *can* be expressed in a "Anger is like a hammer to which everything looks like a nail" way, but to imply that it always does this is like saying that lustful feelings always result in rape.



Please provide an example of my "contempt for worthless people".

Explaining anger to you is just like explaining lust. You are not prepared to get either. What is lust and why do people feel it? Lust is repressed sexuality, the result of being told you are dirty because you have sexual feelings as a child which drives them underground where they fester and become obsessive and abnormal. It's the same thing with anger. You were made to swallow your anger and that creates rage. When I tell you that anger and rage are a sickness you hear you are worthless because you feel them. But that isn't what I am doing. I am telling you what they are so you can see for yourself the damage they do to your inner being. I am not trying to fuck you, you are already fucked by yourself and I suggest you stop doing it by becoming self aware. I am perfectly aware that anybody who tries to help you will be met with profound denial and resistance.

Anger is based on contempt, self contempt. You are the example but while you ask for an example that has noting whatsoever to do with whether you can see it when given.

 

[ch33zw1z]

You need to look on the bright side. In my ideal shooting experience the only person who could get shot is me. Effectiveness is for gun nuts. I want to take as long as I can before I shoot somebody. I already have to remember where a gun is I want to use, find the ammo, load by which time I'm probably already dead. Sure training would help that, but it's also not something I want to spend time and money doing. For me guns are about the pleasure of owning them, not the effort involved in being highly trained to kill.

I have been underprepared to defend myself at a moment's notice all of my life and expect to die without ever needing a gun. But I have, I believe, a moral duty to defend myself and others from dangerously mentally ill people. Having a gun with potential to be used in maybe 15 minutes of so is sufficient for me. I'm happy with that.

There is no bright side to a lazy attitude towards guns, or inexperience using them.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Explaining anger to you is just like explaining lust. You are not prepared to get either. What is lust and why do people feel it? Lust is repressed sexuality, the result of being told you are dirty because you have sexual feelings as a child which drives them underground where they fester and become obsessive and abnormal. It's the same thing with anger. You were made to swallow your anger and that creates rage. When I tell you that anger and rage are a sickness you hear you are worthless because you feel them. But that isn't what I am doing. I am telling you what they are so you can see for yourself the damage they do to your inner being. I am not trying to fuck you, you are already fucked by yourself and I suggest you stop doing it by becoming self aware. I am perfectly aware that anybody who tries to help you will be met with profound denial and resistance.

Anger is based on contempt, self contempt. You are the example but while you ask for an example that has noting whatsoever to do with whether you can see it when given.

Your basic premise about lust is flawed.

Lust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lust isn't merely relegated to strong desire sexually, you can lust after damn near anything.

Additionally, anger isn't necessarily based on contempt. Anger is our natural response based on our perceptions, here's another wiki for ya.

Anger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It seems that you intend on putting people into nice little categories based on what you perceive is the answer, while ignoring a wide range of explanations for a response.

 

[Moonbeam]

There is no bright side to a lazy attitude towards guns, or inexperience using them.

Please notice that you framed that proposition based on your opinion as to what you see. You have defined my approach as a lazy attitude and that there is no bright side to inexperience. I reject them as your personal opinion and have nothing to do with my position.

 

[senseamp]

I just decided to vote party line Democrat regardless the candidates in every election and ignore the noise.

 

[mikeymikec]

Explaining anger to you is just like explaining lust. You are not prepared to get either. What is lust and why do people feel it? Lust is repressed sexuality, the result of being told you are dirty because you have sexual feelings as a child which drives them underground where they fester and become obsessive and abnormal. It's the same thing with anger. You were made to swallow your anger and that creates rage. When I tell you that anger and rage are a sickness you hear you are worthless because you feel them. But that isn't what I am doing. I am telling you what they are so you can see for yourself the damage they do to your inner being. I am not trying to fuck you, you are already fucked by yourself and I suggest you stop doing it by becoming self aware. I am perfectly aware that anybody who tries to help you will be met with profound denial and resistance.

Anger is based on contempt, self contempt. You are the example but while you ask for an example that has noting whatsoever to do with whether you can see it when given.

When called out on baseless claims, you double-down with more baseless claims, when called out again, then you pull out the meaningless doublespeak / circular logic.

I'm done here.

 

[Moonbeam]

Your basic premise about lust is flawed.

Lust - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Lust isn't merely relegated to strong desire sexually, you can lust after damn near anything.

You mean to tell me that when he said lust doesn't always lead to rape he was talking about some other form of lust than sexual?

Additionally, anger isn't necessarily based on contempt. Anger is our natural response based on our perceptions, here's another wiki for ya.

Anger - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

It seems that you intend on putting people into nice little categories based on what you perceive is the answer, while ignoring a wide range of explanations for a response.

Did you read the article? Plenty there to support my position.

 

[Moonbeam]

I just decided to vote party line Democrat regardless the candidates in every election and ignore the noise.

I do the same but try to see faults on all sides. On what basis do you claim my claims are baseless other than your opinion? Again, you assume you know when something is baseless seemingly on nothing more than that you are personally offended.

 

[cytg111]

Maybe 40 years ago. I'm not sure. I bought a 9mm Colt Combat Commander from a guy I new who needed money. Went to the range with another friend and shot a clip or two. It was loud and not that pleasant to shoot. Plus I don't like being at a gun range. Too much regimentation. My idea of fun would be shooting a rifle in the country from a cement table and a gun cradle under a big umbrella on a calm weather warm but not hot day. I'd also like all of that outside my back door.

Then why are you pestering these people with firearm rhetorics? For the sole purpose of poking the bear? Holding up a mirror? Playing devils advocate with an agenda?
Well, at least you're evolving your methods. I guess.

 

[ch33zw1z]

Then why are you pestering these people with firearm rhetorics? For the sole purpose of poking the bear? Holding up a mirror? Playing devils advocate with an agenda?
Well, at least you're evolving your methods. I guess.

Its hard to take a person arguing for gun rights seriously when they can’t even take the time to practice proper gun usage.

 

[fskimospy]

You explained that I am not making my point very well in your previous post here, so I will lump both together here:

I didn’t just admit to the case against me here. My argument has never been that the number and ease of access to guns makes guns a big and special problem for the US. I have insisted instead that the liberal fears of guns are just another form of madness that have added to the difficulty of rationally dealing with the gun aspect of that issue.

I believe that the in the polarized political situation we find ourselves that fear, liberal and conservative has increased gun sales with half of recent gun sales going to women and minorities.

Gun fanatics and gun grabbers have only exacerbated the situation. Now even gun regulations that even most gun owners would agree need to be implemented can’t get passed. Liberal insanity is the cause in my opinion.

I am pro sane gun regulation but oppose outright gun bans as premature at best and impractical or even potentially nonsensical in the area is self defense. I keep hearing on gun sites that the Dalai Lama believes it is OK to use a gun in self defense. I don’t know the details or the context etc. but it is my opinion as well.

The second point I try to make is that the real cause of violence, of which gun violence is a subset is the universal, unaddressed, and profoundly avoided truth that we hate ourselves. We do not know we feel that at an unconscious and deeply repressed level and so engage in any and all manner of means of denial.

Because of this violence will persist no matter what we do. I challenge the notion that the gun problem can be solved simply at the level of the gun. I see this as just another form of abdication of responsibility. Being anti gun is just a way to deny the fact that gun hate is just a subset of our hidden hate for ourselves. We hate violence because it is what we unconsciously do to ourselves every day. We live to blame, to shift the responsibility of our need to manage our blame by justifying its expression on others. We are the source of violence in the world and it is dying from our self hate.

As always, conservatives have no agency. When they create an organization for the express purpose of defeating any and all gun regulation it’s because the liberals made them. What a joke.

Owning a gun is a stupid decision if you’re afraid for your safety. This is a fact. If people want to emotionally cling to guns because it makes them feel better that’s their right, but it doesn’t change the fact that they have made a stupid choice.

 

[cytg111]

As always, conservatives have no agency. When they create an organization for the express purpose of defeating any and all gun regulation it’s because the liberals made them. What a joke.

Owning a gun is a stupid decision if you’re afraid for your safety. This is a fact. If people want to emotionally cling to guns because it makes them feel better that’s their right, but it doesn’t change the fact that they have made a stupid choice.

If guns were legal here to the extent as in the US I would own all the guns. Shooting is some of the best fun. I'd know it was stupid and still vote for gun regulation... But while legal? Oh man...

 

[cytg111]

Its hard to take a person arguing for gun rights seriously when they can’t even take the time to practice proper gun usage.

He is playing n*D chess, its not about the guns.

 

[senseamp]

I do the same but try to see faults on all sides. On what basis do you claim my claims are baseless other than your opinion? Again, you assume you know when something is baseless seemingly on nothing more than that you are personally offended.

I have seen enough to conclude that GOP belongs on the ash heap of history. So I'll vote accordingly without getting into the weeds.

 

[MrSquished]

I met a psychologist on Bumble and loved her profile because she liked to bike, hike and camp plus all the great urban stuff NYC has. But she turned out to be super allergic to my cat and dog. So we decided to be friends and activity partners. We rode our bikes last night, stopped and got some Tibetan/Himalayan food, then gelato. I decided to ask this PhD in Psychology what she thought about the concept of good and evil. She said she believed evil didn't exist. But I clarified with her. She didn't believe people were born evil, I said I agree but I do think there are some cases where people are born lacking certain brain characteristics which can make them lean evil, but it was rare. She agreed. I said so evil is learned. Right. So I said what about all these crazy hardcore MAGA white nationalist fascists racist bigots? She said it is due to lack of exposure. I said of course. But at what point is it a lost cause, have they become evil? She said they have in many cases become too damaged and are past the point of return. It was plain as day to her, and it was refreshing to talk to someone with a grasp of the human condition and not deny it. They are basically damaged souls, many irreparable, though of course some could come around but with how much time and resources and in time to save the country? Exactly, she agreed. So right, I said, so basically at this point we have a large population if damanged irredeemable people in our midst and have no way to reach enough, and even if we could, most would reject anything good. And that is where we at. And I've said this repeatedly, sure some of these folks could be turned around with an insane amount of resources and time, but we don't have that time or the resources.

It doesn't matter if I call people evil or damaged goods or whatever - history has shown that evil is created, but you have to draw the battle lines at some point, or as we have seen, societies are caught unprepared and the oppressors take over and do horrific things. Evil/damaged souls/damaged brains/incurable hate - whatever you want to call the MAGA GQP now, it's valid. It does not imply these people were born evil, but it implies they are now. And that is the simple truth.

Moonbeam is not only completely dishonest in most of his arguments, and is overly emotionally attached to guns to the point he has blood on his hands for all this gun violence, he is completely an idiot about the human condition.

 

[Moonbeam]

When called out on baseless claims, you double-down with more baseless claims, when called out again, then you pull out the meaningless doublespeak / circular logic.

I'm done here.

Sounds like you got angry and reached for an easy cop out.

I met a psychologist on Bumble and loved her profile because she liked to bike, hike and camp plus all the great urban stuff NYC has. But she turned out to be super allergic to my cat and dog. So we decided to be friends and activity partners. We rode our bikes last night, stopped and got some Tibetan/Himalayan food, then gelato. I decided to ask this PhD in Psychology what she thought about the concept of good and evil. She said she believed evil didn't exist. But I clarified with her. She didn't believe people were born evil, I said I agree but I do think there are some cases where people are born lacking certain brain characteristics which can make them lean evil, but it was rare. She agreed. I said so evil is learned. Right. So I said what about all these crazy hardcore MAGA white nationalist fascists racist bigots? She said it is due to lack of exposure. I said of course. But at what point is it a lost cause, have they become evil? She said they have in many cases become too damaged and are past the point of return. It was plain as day to her, and it was refreshing to talk to someone with a grasp of the human condition and not deny it. They are basically damaged souls, many irreparable, though of course some could come around but with how much time and resources and in time to save the country? Exactly, she agreed. So right, I said, so basically at this point we have a large population if damanged irredeemable people in our midst and have no way to reach enough, and even if we could, most would reject anything good. And that is where we at. And I've said this repeatedly, sure some of these folks could be turned around with an insane amount of resources and time, but we don't have that time or the resources.

It doesn't matter if I call people evil or damaged goods or whatever - history has shown that evil is created, but you have to draw the battle lines at some point, or as we have seen, societies are caught unprepared and the oppressors take over and do horrific things. Evil/damaged souls/damaged brains/incurable hate - whatever you want to call the MAGA GQP now, it's valid. It does not imply these people were born evil, but it implies they are now. And that is the simple truth.

Moonbeam is not only completely dishonest in most of his arguments, and is overly emotionally attached to guns to the point he has blood on his hands for all this gun violence, he is completely an idiot about the human condition.

I have told you many times but you cannot hear me, that I see all of these same facts about conservatives, how blind and how dangerous and how hopelessly damaged they are. I have seen it, in all likelihood before you were born. Where we differ is in how we react to that fact. You react out of fear and loathing which generates hatred and all of the egotistical self justification and certainty of you as an authoritative judge with all of your moral condemnations of them as if issued from on high.

And why? Because your unexamined moral sacred cows make you just like them. You play judge jury and executioner.

Evil exists only because we live in an altered state of reality, a world created by thought, ego identifications we create and substitute for the joy of being empty of bigoted ideas as we were before we told how dangerous and thus worthless we were to others if we refused to abdicate and turn our backs on perfection.

You are a holy warrior of a crusade to save the world. I died in the battle tothe realization it could never be won. But when you really let go you can awaken from that dream to the realization that only thought creates misery.

No where to go, nothing to do, nothing to become. You were nailed to a cross and struggle there. Time to die on it.

All that was done to you by way of torture was done in a state of sleep just as what you do to others is done in that same state. Try to forgive them because it will help you to forgive yourself.