On the Border . . .

[StageLeft]

Why do you keep calling this VIGILANTE activity as if it is a bad thing? They are FOLLOWING THE RULE OF LAW. All they are doing is hanging out on the border and communicating information to the border patrol. That's no different than the COMMUNITY WATCH IN YOUR SUBDIVISION.

Exactly. The disgusting thing about this mess is that people are CONDEMNING these people for doing what any "good citizen" should be doing, which is reporting crime to authorities. What a bunch of pussy bastards society has that people LEGALLY reporting CRIMES to the authorities are condemned for their actions.

Who cares what the guns are for? They are not being used in a crime and it is legal to carry in that state.

Exactly.

 

[CaptnKirk]

TriState Online
An Arizona 'Local' news service -

Well, it may be working in one specific location, but the indications are that
they have just moved the portal a few miles in either direction . . .

<CLIP>

Border Patrol apprehensions of illegal immigrants have dropped notably in the Naco area since civilian volunteers began gathering there to watch for undocumented migrants and smugglers trying to sneak into the country.

Agency spokesmen credit an increased presence by Mexican authorities south of the border and say it's too soon to tell whether the volunteers are having an impact or causing smugglers to shift elsewhere, but others are reporting such a swing.

Gov. Janet Napolitano said Wednesday that her office has been told by the Border Patrol and others that migrant traffic is surging in areas beyond the roughly 20-mile line formed by volunteers for the Minuteman Project. That includes the Tohono O'odham Indian Reservation to the west, a favored crossing point for illegal immigrants.

''The traffic flows through Arizona because they tightened down in California and Texas, and when you pull on the border, it is like a bedsheet, and the traffic moves,'' Napolitano said. ''And until you have operational control of the entire Arizona border, you cannot say that progress has been made. And we don't have it, and the Minutemen can't give it to us.''

The volunteers plan to watch the border in shifts 24 hours a day throughout April and report any illegal activity to federal agents. It's an exercise law enforcement officials fear could lead to violence.

Project organizers say they want to draw attention to problems on the Arizona-Mexico border, considered the most vulnerable stretch of the 2,000-mile southern border. Of the 1.1 million illegal immigrants caught by the Border Patrol last year, more than half crossed into the country at Arizona.

Apprehensions in the Naco area began to dip after the volunteers began gathering in southern Arizona last week.

 

[kogase]

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Fingolfin269

Originally posted by: kogase

Originally posted by: Vic

Originally posted by: kogase
Erm, except the police aren't charged specifically with defending your home... they have many responsibilities, and they only "defend your home" if you ask them to. The border patrol, however, is specifically tasked with defending our borders from those attempting to enter the country illegally. They are the only ones qualified to do so, and the only ones granted that authority by law. You are entitled to defend your own home because it isn't actually any other party's specific responsibility to do so.

That's fine and dandy. But I think everyone in the US would agree that they're doing a pretty goddamned bad job of defending our borders, now wouldn't ya say?

Well, yeah. They probably need more help, among other things. However, when a court fails to convict a murderer, we don't grab torches and pitchforks and string him up. In this country, we follow the rule of law, and this vigilante activity is not in keeping with that principle.

Why do you keep calling this VIGILANTE activity as if it is a bad thing? They are FOLLOWING THE RULE OF LAW. All they are doing is hanging out on the border and communicating information to the border patrol. That's no different than the COMMUNITY WATCH IN YOUR SUBDIVISION.

I hate caps.

Community Watch? Anyway, what are the guns for? Just in case a Mexican attempts to run into them very fast? Puh-huh-tuh.

Who cares what the guns are for? They are not being used in a crime and it is legal to carry in that state.

Yeah, they aren't being used in a crime. But when I see someone driving into a cemetary in a black ski mask with a shovel and a dumptruck, I don't need them to be carrying a sign that says "GRAVEROBBER" to get the idea.

If it seems like I'm grasping at straws, that's because I am. Just trying to compensate for the fact that I jumped into this argument without reading the actual article. Blast and curses, FOILED AGAIN!

 

[StageLeft]

Well, it may be working in one specific location, but the indications are that
they have just moved the portal a few miles in either direction . . .

As to be expected. It would be neat to see what would happen if enough people could be grabbed to do this over the hundreds of miles of border instead of just 23.

If it seems like I'm grasping at straws, that's because I am. Just trying to compensate for the fact that I jumped into this argument without reading the actual article. Blast and curses, FOILED AGAIN!

If I didn't do the same thing my post count would be about 300.

 

[drewshin]

the government wont do anything about it, just more lip service.
when most of our:

1] picked fruit
2] slaughterhouses
3] household help (maids, nannies)

are done by illegal immigrants.

can you imagine the price of fruit and meat products if americans were to do it?

 

[StageLeft]

Originally posted by: drewshin
the government wont do anything about it, just more lip service.
when most of our:

1] picked fruit
2] slaughterhouses
3] household help (maids, nannies)

are done by illegal immigrants.

can you imagine the price of fruit and meat products if americans were to do it?

Can you imagine our taxes if everyone who used public services actually paid for them?

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: drewshin
the government wont do anything about it, just more lip service.
when most of our:

1] picked fruit
2] slaughterhouses
3] household help (maids, nannies)

are done by illegal immigrants.

can you imagine the price of fruit and meat products if americans were to do it?

What can the government do about it? These people are breaking no laws. Do you want the government to just stick its hand in everything?

Hah, wait, nevermind.

 

[cwjerome]

It's a little funny to hear the big-city wussbags who've probably never held a gun in real life worry about some Minutemen (most accounts put it at about 1 in 10) carry a sidearm. Welcome to the Southwest... it's legal and normal. Especially when in the outdoors, and especially when near the border... where human and drug trafficking is rampant as are the risks to one's life. It's a shame that the condition of our border here in Az makes it prudent to have a weapon down in that situation, but it is what it is. Guess that's part of the reason those Minutemen are down there conducting their little protest operation, eh?

It's legal and a significant spotlight on the situation that exists down there. Calling out "vigilante" or "redneck" or "right-wing" and stuff like that shows a great deal of ignorance about the problem and the people involved who are trying to help do something about it.

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
It's a little funny to hear the big-city wussbags who've probably never held a gun in real life worry about some Minutemen (most accounts put it at about 1 in 10) carry a sidearm.

I'm sorry but those big-city wussbags put America on he map economically and politically. What do you people do except leech off of Blue money, and vote your Christian agenda into office?

 

[daniel49]

Gads! wheres John Wayne when you need him?

 

[Proletariat]

Originally posted by: daniel49
Gads! wheres John Wayne when you need him?

Dead.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
It's a little funny to hear the big-city wussbags who've probably never held a gun in real life worry about some Minutemen (most accounts put it at about 1 in 10) carry a sidearm. Welcome to the Southwest... it's legal and normal. Especially when in the outdoors, and especially when near the border... where human and drug trafficking is rampant as are the risks to one's life. It's a shame that the condition of our border here in Az makes it prudent to have a weapon down in that situation, but it is what it is. Guess that's part of the reason those Minutemen are down there conducting their little protest operation, eh?

It's legal and a significant spotlight on the situation that exists down there. Calling out "vigilante" or "redneck" or "right-wing" and stuff like that shows a great deal of ignorance about the problem and the people involved who are trying to help do something about it.

I love how you complain about the stereotyping and "ignorance about the problem" and then go on to do it yourself (see: "Big-City Wussbags"). Are you the world's biggest hypocrite or what?

 

[Rhin0]

I think maybe we should go experience having drug smugglers, criminals, and thugs coming across our property, near our homes, totally out of control and pouring into our towns and then discuss this issue.

 

[phonemonkey]

Even though I'm usually liberal about most policies, I have to say that if there is anything that can be done to help stem the flow of illegal immigrants into the US (and especially AZ), then it needs to be done.

I think it's already been proven that the Mexican government has no real intention of trying to stop the flow of illegal immigrants (either by assisting the US in protecting the borders or by trying to create better living conditions in their home country). Then again, most of the Mexican government (at least to me) seems to be incredibly corruptable.

For those who are against the US putting a stop to the illegal immigrant problem, I have to ask this - what would you think if some of the illegal immigration effects were in your area? How would you feel about the coyotes (the people who smuggle the illegal immigrants) that have shootouts on busy freeways (http://www.azcentral.com/specials/special03/articles/1106shootingfolo.html) that end up killing people? In that specific case, only 4 people were killed.

What about the people who set up drop houses in your neighborhood? You know, those fun situations where you have heavily armed people keeping the immigrants captive till their money is collected. Thankfully the people in the homes haven't killed any kids playing in the area yet, but it's likely only a matter of time. It seems like one every week is being found in Phoenix these days. I think there were some found last year that were holding more than 50 people in a single house.

While I don't expect private citizens to enforce our border policies, I do expect our government (be it state or federal) to guard our borders. I mean, if people can just walk across the border and get away, what's to stop someone in a terrorist organization from coming across the border (I'm almost surprised that Al Qeda didn't cross the border this way before 9/11). As much as I hate to say it, if the government is unable to control their own borders, then someone needs to step in and do so (in a legal manner).

 

[PatboyX]

Originally posted by: Vic
Good. The OP's a fsckin' idiot. Illegal immigration is (guess what?) illegal. I knew the fsckin' liberal left had gone off the deep edge with the whole immigration issue when I was reading an article in the local liberal rag Willamette Week (which just won a Pulitzer btw) that called illegal immigrants convicted of violent felonies who are residing inside the state pen (guess what again?) "undocumented workers". Idiots :roll:

Illegal immigration only helps big business by providing a large low-cost workforce. IMO this is why ICE under the Bush Admin is not properly defending our borders, even when the Mexican government itself calls the current scenario "la reconquista" (the Re-Conquest). That leftist liberals cozy up with the Bush Admin in this blatant violation of our laws and uses their bullsh!t PC speak to call the fight against illegal immigration "racist" simply shows how skewed their values are. Those people the OP criticizes are defending our country against the ONLY real threat that faces it now, and they are doing it in pure democratic style simply because our government will not follow the express will of the people.

im pretty sure vigilante-action is illegal too.
sure, we all love batman but lets not start enforcing the laws ourselves.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: PatboyX

Originally posted by: Vic
Good. The OP's a fsckin' idiot. Illegal immigration is (guess what?) illegal. I knew the fsckin' liberal left had gone off the deep edge with the whole immigration issue when I was reading an article in the local liberal rag Willamette Week (which just won a Pulitzer btw) that called illegal immigrants convicted of violent felonies who are residing inside the state pen (guess what again?) "undocumented workers". Idiots :roll:

Illegal immigration only helps big business by providing a large low-cost workforce. IMO this is why ICE under the Bush Admin is not properly defending our borders, even when the Mexican government itself calls the current scenario "la reconquista" (the Re-Conquest). That leftist liberals cozy up with the Bush Admin in this blatant violation of our laws and uses their bullsh!t PC speak to call the fight against illegal immigration "racist" simply shows how skewed their values are. Those people the OP criticizes are defending our country against the ONLY real threat that faces it now, and they are doing it in pure democratic style simply because our government will not follow the express will of the people.

im pretty sure vigilante-action is illegal too.
sure, we all love batman but lets not start enforcing the laws ourselves.

Vigilante action is illegal. Thank God these people on the border are not vigilantes since they are not trying to enforce the law, right?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Proletariat

Originally posted by: cwjerome
It's a little funny to hear the big-city wussbags who've probably never held a gun in real life worry about some Minutemen (most accounts put it at about 1 in 10) carry a sidearm.

I'm sorry but those big-city wussbags put America on he map economically and politically. What do you people do except leech off of Blue money, and vote your Christian agenda into office?

Well... forgetting for a second that what you say is wrong... I guess one thing we do is we pretty much keep your ass alive

 

[Starbuck1975]

Vigilante action is illegal. Thank God these people on the border are not vigilantes since they are not trying to enforce the law, right?

From the reports I have seen thus far, they have been fairly effective at locating and reporting crossings of illegal immigrants. Here is their mission statement:

"The Mission of the Civil Homeland Defense Corps, headquartered in Tombstone, Arizona, is to report suspicious illegal activities to proper authorities and deter, by legal means, illegal aliens, drug traffickers and terrorists from entering the United States by physical presence along the immediate U.S. Mexican border. Citizen groups along the Canadian border and coastal areas are encouraged to operate with the same level of vigilance."

They have standard operating procedures in place to ensure that those participating in this effort do not break the law themselves.

From the reports released thus far, it appears they have been successful in assisting the Border Patrol without causing any incidents.

It appears the only people attempting to make this into a circus are the media and those "civil rights" groups that have descended onto the scene to protect the "rights" of illegal immigrants and drug traffickers.

 

[cwjerome]

They have been fairly effective, considering Mexican forces south of the border have been tightening their grip on the area and warning "migrants" that it's not safe to cross and they should wait a month or so, which has meant fewer crossings in that area.

A few days ago a letter was sent by courrier to the leader of the Minutemen warning of an attack on them in a border spot infamous for drug trafficking. Later is was leaked that it have been a diversion from a much greater offensive against the main Minutemen outpost down there. It's generally accepted now that it was just meant to try and scare them off or provoke them into a jittery situation. A couple days later, bands 1-14 on the 2-way radios were jammed by an unkown source just south of the border. No "international incidents" yet. The biggest controversy so far was when one Minuteman was a little too friendly to an illegal alien he encountered. He was caught on tape giving the alien water, a bowl of cereal, trading shirts and shaking hands with him... and giving him $20. Kinda weird, but he said he was overly excited to meet an illegal alien, and he resigned from the Minutemen on decent terms.

 

[Infohawk]

Looks like right-wing paramilitary groups are making a comeback after their setback with the OKC bombing.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Looks like right-wing paramilitary groups are making a comeback after their setback with the OKC bombing.

I'm assuming you posted in the wrong forum... since it's hard to believe anyone could make that hyper-moronic comment concerning this topic.

Start here and come back with a rational statement... if you are capable of one.

 

[Fingolfin269]

Originally posted by: cwjerome

Originally posted by: Infohawk
Looks like right-wing paramilitary groups are making a comeback after their setback with the OKC bombing.

I'm assuming you posted in the wrong forum... since it's hard to believe anyone could make that hyper-moronic comment concerning this topic.

Start here and come back with a rational statement... if you are capable of one.

Troll feeding is bad.

 

[Steeplerot]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
They have been fairly effective, considering Mexican forces south of the border have been tightening their grip on the area and warning "migrants" that it's not safe to cross and they should wait a month or so, which has meant fewer crossings in that area.

A few days ago a letter was sent by courrier to the leader of the Minutemen warning of an attack on them in a border spot infamous for drug trafficking. Later is was leaked that it have been a diversion from a much greater offensive against the main Minutemen outpost down there. It's generally accepted now that it was just meant to try and scare them off or provoke them into a jittery situation. A couple days later, bands 1-14 on the 2-way radios were jammed by an unkown source just south of the border. No "international incidents" yet. The biggest controversy so far was when one Minuteman was a little too friendly to an illegal alien he encountered. He was caught on tape giving the alien water, a bowl of cereal, trading shirts and shaking hands with him... and giving him $20. Kinda weird, but he said he was overly excited to meet an illegal alien, and he resigned from the Minutemen on decent terms.

Good thing then that the fine US soldiers are smuggling the cocaine in instead of the poor folk coming to work to help feed their familys.
We don't want to give the racists any extra work.

from link:
5 U.S. Soldiers Accused Of Smuggling Cocaine From Colombia

Five U.S Army soldiers are under investigation for allegedly trying to smuggle some 32 pounds of cocaine from Colombia aboard a U.S. military aircraft


Sounds like the military and the C.ocaine I.mporation A.gency is at it again.
What are these guys peddling? besides hate and mexican abu garib style pictures?

 

[fornax]

You should change the title I thought this will be about my favorite place to eat in Phoenix

 

[raildogg]

We are being invaded by Mexico. Both by the illegal immigrants that Mexico doesn't want and the Mexican Army, which has been accused of coming across the US border. Noone wants to touch these issues because they're afraid of being labeled as racist or intolerant.

Lets get one thing clear: By coming across the border illegaly, you are committing a crime. Why should these law breakers not be punished? Why should the good people who live near the Mexican border have to put up with Mexican thugs and coyotes who smuggle these people into the USA. The Americans who live down there are living in a constant state of fear, with all the various Mexican gangs who are heavily armed and the armed smugglers trying to bring illegal Mexicans across.

Many Mexicans trying to illegally die each year, yet do we ever hear about that? The Mexican border is a extremely dangerous place where many violent gangs operate out of. They kill and rob the illegal lawbreaking Mexicans trying to enter the USA or the smugglers. Hundreds of Mexicans die each year trying to cross the border. To combat the Mexican gangs, the Mexican smugglers have been trying to get more weapons. Just imagine being a American and living anywhere near the border.

The Mexican Army also crosses the border time to time. Many border patrol agents feel threatened by the Mexican Army. In fact, many times the Mexican soldiers get arrested by the Border Patrol. There have been cases in which the Mexican soldiers shot at US Border Patrol agents. There have also been cases in which the corrupt Mexican Army has been involved in drug and migrant smuggling. How can we allow this? How can Bush sit and invite Vicente Fox to his Crawford and have a bbq? Does he not realize that things are getting a bit out of hand at the Mexican border? The Border Patrol agents are ill-equipped to deal with the drug smugglers, coyotes, illegal lawbreaking Mexicans trying to enter the US. Either send the US Army down there or significantly increase the firepower and manpower of the Border Patrol agents.

The government knows everything that happens on and around that border and does nothing. I salute the Minutemen Project. These people are fed up with the government and want to do something about it - and many border patrol agents are thankful that they're getting any type of help.

There are underground tunnels and secret passageways from which these illegal lawbreaking Mexicans come to the US. We know where they are, why aren't we shutting them down? Has the Mexican government bought out our politicians? It definately appears so.