On the Border . . .

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Make him do something about it? Well, I suppose that's what those Minutemen are hoping to do, eh?

Right, but akin to an anti-war protest, the administration isn't doing squat in response. In other words, I don't think it's having the effect the minutemen were hoping for. I guess a "nice try" is in order, but in the end the efforts have led pretty much nowhere.

Bush doesn't care about illegal immigration and only seems interested in figuring out ways to ensure a supply of cheap labor (see: guest-worker program, failure to fund add'l border patrol agents, etc.).

The Republicans as a whole don't seem overly concerned either and with a majority in both houses of congress and the presidency, they are in a unique position to actually DO something about illegal immigration. If anything, they're making it worse.

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: cwjerome
Make him do something about it? Well, I suppose that's what those Minutemen are hoping to do, eh?

Right, but akin to an anti-war protest, the administration isn't doing squat in response. In other words, I don't think it's having the effect the minutemen were hoping for. I guess a "nice try" is in order, but in the end the efforts have led pretty much nowhere.

Bush doesn't care about illegal immigration and only seems interested in figuring out ways to ensure a supply of cheap labor (see: guest-worker program, failure to fund add'l border patrol agents, etc.).

The Republicans as a whole don't seem overly concerned either and with a majority in both houses of congress and the presidency, they are in a unique position to actually DO something about illegal immigration. If anything, they're making it worse.

I'd say the Minuteman Project has been a moderate success so far. As long as some fool doesn't go half-cocked down there it should be a decent statement and a decent start. Guess it's up to me and others like me on the Right to push the Reps harder, because there is NO alternative.

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Captnkirk, give it a rest. Selecting one line and dwelling on it with a link-fest doesn't change a thing. Control and power isn't as easy as counting Rs and Ds. There's a lot of moderate Reps, and nothing near the ability to override a veto. The bottom line is, the only serious voices in this state (and pretty much nationally) concerning illegal immigration are coming from the right side of the isle.

 

[raildogg]

If you think Republicans are any better than Democrats at dealing with this illegal immigration invasion, you're either a ignoramus or a brainwashed sheep. The only person who says anything about our borders being diluted and being basically nonexistent is Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado. Seems to me he's one of the politicians who isn't in the back pocket of the Mexican government.

Conservatives and liberals are united in that they both want loose open borders. For some liberals, they don't believe in borders, they don't believe in boundaries. They want America to be part of the mega global country under a single flag. Also they feel that America should be flooded by millions of poor illegals because they're simply poor and that we Americans should and must provide them with a better life.

Many greedy conservatives favor illegal immigration because they see masses of illegals, mostly Mexicans, as a large workforce for the large corporations. They also believe that the hispanic population in America will vote for Republicans if they loosened up immigration rules and kept the border as open as it is now. Why do you think the Republicans want to grant amnesty to these illegals?

 

[cwjerome]

Originally posted by: raildogg
If you think Republicans are any better than Democrats at dealing with this illegal immigration invasion, you're either a ignoramus or a brainwashed sheep. The only person who says anything about our borders being diluted and being basically nonexistent is Congressman Tom Tancredo of Colorado. Seems to me he's one of the politicians who isn't in the back pocket of the Mexican government.

Conservatives and liberals are united in that they both want loose open borders. For some liberals, they don't believe in borders, they don't believe in boundaries. They want America to be part of the mega global country under a single flag. Also they feel that America should be flooded by millions of poor illegals because they're simply poor and that we Americans should and must provide them with a better life.

Many greedy conservatives favor illegal immigration because they see masses of illegals, mostly Mexicans, as a large workforce for the large corporations. They also believe that the hispanic population in America will vote for Republicans if they loosened up immigration rules and kept the border as open as it is now. Why do you think the Republicans want to grant amnesty to these illegals?

What a load of BS. Look at the Minutemen down at the border. You think they're mostly conservatives? If you don't then you need to go slap yourself and go post somewhere else. At least the P&N Bush-haters acknowledge those people to be "right-wingers", although they mean it negatively. You may also want to do some internet searching to see what other groups are hot about illegal immigration... you may notice the overwhelming number to be right of center. Heck don't stop there, look at the groups that are apologists or sympathizers of illegal immigration... notice the liberal leanings yet? Here's a few in Arizona that I'm quite familiar with... real big Republicans, let me tell you :roll:

Ever hear of the Buchanan wing of the conservative movement? You must not have since you somehow think conservatives are pro-illegal immigration. You're totally absurd... who was pushing prop 187 in California? The Right. Who was pushing Prop 200 in Arizona? The Right. Funny how you mention ONE person (of course someone on the Right) while ignoring many others who are tired of the situation.In Arizona alone we have Kyle and Hayworth along with numerous state-level Reps that are angry and trying to work something out. Check out some debates and see who is tough on immigration. Answer: The Right. Check out voting records to see who is tough on immigration. Answer: The Right. Notice the battles within the Right to get tough. You see that on the Left? If you do send it my way because I've only seen a desire to weaken the border from them.

I think your zeal to be politically impartial has left you blind to reality. All I can say that is you're truly concerned about the illegal invasion and economic and national security issues it creates, then you had better see who your allys are. The only meaningful debate and serious voices out there that's trying to push tougher border security is from the Right-Wing. It would be pretty ignorant of you to ignore or trash these conservatives while they're trying to get more Reps on board and get something done.

 

[raildogg]

Originally posted by: cwjerome
What a load of BS. Look at the Minutemen down at the border. You think they're mostly conservatives? If you don't then you need to go slap yourself and go post somewhere else. At least the P&N Bush-haters acknowledge those people to be "right-wingers", although they mean it negatively. You may also want to do some internet searching to see what other groups are hot about illegal immigration... you may notice the overwhelming number to be right of center. Heck don't stop there, look at the groups that are apologists or sympathizers of illegal immigration... notice the liberal leanings yet? Here's a few in Arizona that I'm quite familiar with... real big Republicans, let me tell you :roll:

Ever hear of the Buchanan wing of the conservative movement? You must not have since you somehow think conservatives are pro-illegal immigration. You're totally absurd... who was pushing prop 187 in California? The Right. Who was pushing Prop 200 in Arizona? The Right. Funny how you mention ONE person (of course someone on the Right) while ignoring many others who are tired of the situation.In Arizona alone we have Kyle and Hayworth along with numerous state-level Reps that are angry and trying to work something out. Check out some debates and see who is tough on immigration. Answer: The Right. Check out voting records to see who is tough on immigration. Answer: The Right. Notice the battles within the Right to get tough. You see that on the Left? If you do send it my way because I've only seen a desire to weaken the border from them.

I think your zeal to be politically impartial has left you blind to reality. All I can say that is you're truly concerned about the illegal invasion and economic and national security issues it creates, then you had better see who your allys are. The only meaningful debate and serious voices out there that's trying to push tougher border security is from the Right-Wing. It would be pretty ignorant of you to ignore or trash these conservatives while they're trying to get more Reps on board and get something done.

The Minutemen are patriotic Americans are fed up with their towns and cities being invaded. If protecting your country against a threat is being a conservative, then its news to.

Apologizers of illegal immigration? Many of them are on this forum and they do lean left. But don't give me the BS that certain conservatives, such as in the Republican party, are all opposed to the idea of illegal immigration. You totally misunderstood my point, I said certain liberals and certain conservatives favor illegal immigration because of DIFFERNT reasons.

The radical Hispanic and leftist organizations don't view the illegal Mexicans as law breakers, they view them as poor oppressed people trying to make a living.

There are Republicans out there trying to do something about it, such as Tom Tancredo, but their leader, Bush, doesn't seem all that worried. After all, he's under the impression that these hispanics will vote Republican if the Republicans grant them some sort of amnesty.

The radical judges and courts aren't helping either. They're opposed to most of these immigration reform bills, such as Prop 187 and Prop 200. The main goal here is to stop providing free services to illegal lawbreaking immigrants. Any sane person would support those two bills. Prop 200 does nothing about stopping illegal immigration.

Oh please, don't put Buchanan in the same sentence as the modern Republican party. He is a true Conservative and a true Patriot, no matter how looney some of his positions may be. Buchanan-type Republicans are harder and harder to find these days. Tell me, what has Bush done about illegal immigration or securing the border? Seems to me that the border is more porous now than on 9/11.

The same Bush that you seem to love so much wants to grant 8 million illegal immigrants legal status. So much for following the law. :disgust: Also, being tough on illegal immigration is not the same as being tough on immigration. We need more immigrants, we need educated immigrants with various skill levels.

You are completely paranoid. Any criticism of the right is met by complete denial by you. Why can't you see the Minutemen project as being patriotic and standing up for what is right rather than seeing it as a conservative movement?

Jeb Bush wants to grant drivers licenses to illegal immigrants in his state, what a great conservative he is, huh? It seems only natural to me as he is married to a latino and since Flordia has a large hispanic population, he wants their votes. The same goes for other politicians accross America. A lot of them seem to be on the side of illega immigrants and the Mexican government. What a shame that people like Buchanan couln't be in office. No matter how much you disagree with Buchanan, at least he will never sell out this country.

 

[cwjerome]

I've never insinuated that all Reps are strongly against illegal immigration. And I openly criticize Bush about his lack of strong border control policies whenever the issue arises. What I am saying is conservatives (like me) are the only sizable force out there that's pushing for stronger actions towards illegal immigration, and the only politicians out there who are receptive are Republicans. There's a long uphill battle to fight to get serious reform through, and if you think you're going to get any help on this from the Left then you're deluded. It's coming from the Right and someone like you ought to get behind the movement instead of trashing everyone.

I hate to burst your bubble but there's all kinds of Republicans and they all have varying ideas... and it will always be that way. But if and when border security does get real it will be because enough Reps jumped on board. You do what you like but I'm past the bitching stage. It's time to get pragmatic and work with what we've got and start getting something done. The only way that's going to happen is by cracking the whip on the backs of the Reps.

 

[raildogg]

Democrats are as diverse, if not more, than Republicans. When did I say there aren't varying Republicans? I have been mentioning the great Congressman from Colorado, Tom Tomcredo.

Hillary Clinton has recently begun taking a tougher stance on illegal immigration.

Immigration, illegal immigration is all about politics.

Democrats are increasingly getting tougher on illegal immigration as they see that the shift in how the hispanics vote. Bush saw a significant higher number of hispanics who voted for him than in 2000. Hispanics are increasingly identifying themselves with Republicans because they're socially conservative and they want a more secure homeland. I'm not saying whether these points are true or not, but thats the perception.

You will see more and more Democrats speak out against illegal immigrants in the future.

The current bipartisan intelligence reform is a complete joke because it does not touch one of the most important threats to our country - illegal immigration.

It is ordinary Americans that are actually trying to do something to stop the flood of illegal lawbreaking immigrants to America. We have the power to do something.

It would be better if you and other conservatives were more open to the idea of inclusion. This fight against illegal immigration isn't a conservative or liberal idea or movement, it's a movement by good Americans who are fed up with the illegal lawbreaking immigrants. I understand that certain left wing whackos can get a bit out of hand - especially when they say there are no such things as borders and we should let everyone in. But remember, there are right wing whackos too and those people need to be controlled as well. This fight would be much easier for all of us if the left and right worked together to do something about illegal immgrants rather than fighting each other.

 

[Baltazar325]

Good Lord, both parties are sucking the hind tit when it comes to immigration. They have both failed us.

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: Baltazar325
Good Lord, both parties are sucking the hind tit when it comes to immigration. They have both failed us.

Agreed. But if the Dems had any brains whatsoever, they'd steal this issue for themselves. Promise to park the military on our borders. Oh man, that would be a winner.