On the Border . . .

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Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Looks like right-wing paramilitary groups are making a comeback after their setback with the OKC bombing.


I'm assuming you posted in the wrong forum... since it's hard to believe anyone could make that hyper-moronic comment concerning this topic.

Start here and come back with a rational statement... if you are capable of one.

As usual a lot of emotion in your post, but very little substance.

They are right-wing and they are paramilitary (which is clear from their choice of name).
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: raildogg
We are being invaded by Mexico.

It's funny how most of your political beliefs are based on fear. I'm not crazy about the amount of Mexican immmigration but I don't go about crapping in my pants about an "invasion."
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: raildogg
We are being invaded by Mexico.

I really fear that they are going to take away a cheap and underpaid backbreaking
$ 3.00 an hour job.

or

"Buenos Tardes, Senors Y Mujeres, Bienvenida a Wal-Mart"

Invasion - my ass, where's the Shock and Awe ?

or should it be "Aw, Shucks"
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Ooh, Scary
Awwww how cute, the vigilante units, er uhhh the "patriotic minutemen" are doing a little homage to Abu Grahib! How long before they have a human pyramid of illegal immigrants stacked up in the desert with attack dogs lunging at their genitals?

TUCSON (AP) ? Three volunteers patrolling the border for illegal immigrants were being investigated after a man told authorities he was held against his will and forced to pose for a picture holding a T-shirt with a mocking slogan.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
Five U.S Army soldiers are under investigation for allegedly trying to smuggle some 32 pounds of cocaine from Colombia aboard a U.S. military aircraft
So because five soldiers attempted to smuggle drugs from Colombia, we should simply ignore the flow of drugs and illegal aliens across the border we share with Mexico?

Nice deflection, but a few soldiers doing something unprofessional, illegal and stupid has nothing to do with the men and women volunteering their time to serve as observers to protect our border.

Awwww how cute, the vigilante units, er uhhh the "patriotic minutemen" are doing a little homage to Abu Grahib! How long before they have a human pyramid of illegal immigrants stacked up in the desert with attack dogs lunging at their genitals?
Of course you are willing to believe the testimony of an ILLEGAL alien over an American citizen, because doing so is in line with what you want to believe these volunteers are doing...this ILLEGAL alien has no vested interest in seeing the Minutemen go away...he is just some poor Mexican who's civil rights were trampled upon as he attempted to cross into our nation ILLEGALLY...more likely then not, the drug cartels are telling migrants that if they are caught, to start screaming about their civil rights being violating...the drug cartels know quite well that they can use or media and special interest groups to make the Minutemen disappear so they can resume their slave and drug trade activities.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
If these guys were merely watching the borders I wouldn't really care. But they're naming themselves after an armed group and prancing around in a overly-agressive right-wing militiamen fashion. That's the problem.
 

Starbuck1975

Lifer
Jan 6, 2005
14,698
1,909
126
If these guys were merely watching the borders I wouldn't really care. But they're naming themselves after an armed group and prancing around in a overly-agressive right-wing militiamen fashion. That's the problem.
Probably because the term "Minutemen" has a historical association within their circles as being the highest form of patriot...after all, without the "Minutmen" who volunteered to fight the British, our nation would probably not exist as it does today.

While I agree that this movement has attracted some of the right wing militia nutjobs, it appears from the statements, websites and literature of those organizing this effort that they wish to distance themselves from such intentions.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
If these guys were merely watching the borders I wouldn't really care. But they're naming themselves after an armed group and prancing around in a overly-agressive right-wing militiamen fashion. That's the problem.
Probably because the term "Minutemen" has a historical association within their circles as being the highest form of patriot...after all, without the "Minutmen" who volunteered to fight the British, our nation would probably not exist as it does today.

While I agree that this movement has attracted some of the right wing militia nutjobs, it appears from the statements, websites and literature of those organizing this effort that they wish to distance themselves from such intentions.


Meanwhile conveniently forgetting that the original 'Minutemen' were the insurgents of the day,
overthrowing the Government of the time - enforcing their radical doctrine, and forcing out the
occupation by the invaders from another country.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Meanwhile conveniently forgetting that the original 'Minutemen' were the insurgents of the day,
overthrowing the Government of the time - enforcing their radical doctrine, and forcing out the
occupation by the invaders from another country.
By today's standards, or perhaps more accurately, our present administration's definition, the 'Minutemen' would be considered terrorists.
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
Of course you are willing to believe the testimony of an ILLEGAL alien over an American citizen, because doing so is in line with what you want to believe these volunteers are doing...this ILLEGAL alien has no vested interest in seeing the Minutemen go away...he is just some poor Mexican who's civil rights were trampled upon as he attempted to cross into our nation ILLEGALLY...more likely then not, the drug cartels are telling migrants that if they are caught, to start screaming about their civil rights being violating...the drug cartels know quite well that they can use or media and special interest groups to make the Minutemen disappear so they can resume their slave and drug trade activities.
Wow, that's quite a conspiracy theory you've got going there! It's funny how you complain about the veracity of the story I was commenting on, but then offer up your own fantastic theories w/o nary a shred of evidence! Nice.
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
How freaking stupid can anyone really be? The Minutemen were the result of British "oppression." If anything, the Brits should be wary about their presence at the Mexican border

The Minutemen of the past were concerned with defending AMERICA against foreign "tyranny." How sick and twisted of some idiots here to turn the modern theme of this group into anti-American BS. Only the most warped logic could view the historical Minutemen as "terrorists." It really gives a lot of insight into the out-of-touch way such people think. I would say it's disgusting but it's a hilarious way for these people to keep shooting themselves in the foot :laugh:

Look at the sheer stupidity of this quote: "Meanwhile conveniently forgetting that the original 'Minutemen' were the insurgents of the day,
overthrowing the Government of the time - enforcing their radical doctrine, and forcing out the
occupation by the invaders from another country."

Notice the complete lack of context which renders this rank POS meaningless. Maybe if "insurgents", "radical", and other words used were morally equal regardless of circumstance he'd have a point. Fortunately there is right and wrong, absolutes, and objectively superior concepts, principles, and ideas. This means one "insurgent" may be right and noble, and another may be wrong and corrupt.

Another person is worried that they named themselves after an "ARMED GROUP." LOL... I've rarely seen such petty, living-in-a-closet fear from even the most stammering, timid PC kook. Forget the basic philosophies guiding those people, they carried guns!! Ohhhh noooo!!

At this point I can easily see why you'd believe the illegal alien's fabrication in the USA Today story. Besides from being good left-wing sheep and doubting America-loving citizens over an illegal alien, you simply have no knowledge or common sense. Fact: The illegal's KNOW to make such accusations and it's quite common. Common Sense: Especially in a situation like this where any attempt to hurt a group that's making their illegal activities harder might help. Now here comes reality: It's old news... the investigation is over, the guy is cleared, videotape was the proof, and it's just another example of an alien making whatever claims he can, just like what happens hundreds of times a month down there every year. Now do you feel silly for jumping on this story as a way to beat up on the Minutemen? Somehow I don't think so.



 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
So then CWJ, you slept through your history classes & learned nothing in school.

What part of America in the mid 1700 being a British Colony and under British Rule don't you understand ?

That would be ALL of it.

Our country was founded by 'Patriots' that overthrew the established Government of the time, and as Insurgents fought the Occupying Army,
again OF THE TIME, and replaced that Government with one of their own making. Am I wrong on that,
or are you just too bullheaded to face what actually did happen in our history - a small group of protesters worked together
to take over and control the Government to their ideals, and repel a foriegn occupancy and it's imposed Government.

How big of a percentage of the population back then actually participated in setting up and writing the Constitution ?

Got a minute -Man

 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
So then CWJ, you slept through your history classes & learned nothing in school.

What part of America in the mid 1700 being a British Colony and under British Rule don't you understand ?

That would be ALL of it.

Our country was founded by 'Patriots' that overthrew the established Government of the time, and as Insurgents fought the Occupying Army,
again OF THE TIME, and replaced that Government with one of their own making. Am I wrong on that,
or are you just too bullheaded to face what actually did happen in our history - a small group of protesters worked together
to take over and control the Government to their ideals, and repel a foriegn occupancy and it's imposed Government.

How big of a percentage of the population back then actually participated in setting up and writing the Constitution ?

Got a minute -Man


I'm not disputing any on that. I just have a problem with equating any person who "repels a foreign occupancy" (or any of these minuteman-like things) with anyone else who does that as if they're all the same morally.

Anyways, the obvious connection to using the term as their name is the symbolism of protecting or defending America with good moral cause. Anyone who wants to extrapolate literal nonsense into today's Minutemen Project by acting like these people are exact replicas of the Minutemen of old or "insurgents" or whatever is an embarassing fool.

The bottom line is crying about their name is about as weak-ass an argument I've ever seen.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers. Typically 25 years of age or younger, they were chosen for their enthusiasm, reliability, and physical strength. Usually about one quarter of the militia served as Minutemen, performing additional duties as such. The Minutemen were the first armed militia to arrive or await a battle.

I see that as a big difference from a bunch of reactionary middle aged rednecks that organize - over the internet, a gathering
of untrained volunteers as a symbol against how our Government conducts branch of Law Enforcement that the Government
won't even come up with adequate funding to provide what the Borded Patrol really needs in personell and Equipment in the first place.

When I was growing up we lived within 15 miles of the Mexican Border, and knew people who worked for the Border Patrol.
They worked pretty damn hard, long thankless hours, lousy condition in stiffling hot weather.

These 'Minutemen' are actually getting in the way of what the Border Patrol is doing, trampling all over the dessert, wiping
out the traks that could be used to trace entry, and setting of the motion detectors and other alarm devices so a few pin-heads
can feel like big-shots and get their name in the paper - yeah, I guess that by todays lower standards that's really 'Patriotic'.

We've had to deploy more Border Patrol to just keep watch so nothing bad happens there, and keep resetting the detectors
that have been triggered, which results in a dilution of method and personell doing what they could have been doing otherwise.

Meanwhile back at the Ranch, the infiltration continues because the law enforcement was off on wild goose chases - because the
normal flow of events was interupted by 'Do-Gooders' who's methods actually were obstruction to the desired outcome.

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
It's funny how most of your political beliefs are based on fear. I'm not crazy about the amount of Mexican immmigration but I don't go about crapping in my pants about an "invasion."

Actually my fears are based on reality. The reality is that the Mexican Army, migrant smugglers and drug traffickers are all cooperating with each other. When you factor in the Mexican gangs along border robbing and killing the coyotes and the migrants they are trying to smuggle across the border, it makes a very dangerous place to live.

Our border patrol agents are ill-equipped for the job. They don't have the firepower or the manpower to combat these thugs. The Mexican government is encouraging law breaking instead of stopping it, our politicians know what Mexico is up to but they're too afraid to speak out.

There could be two reasons why our politicians don't speak out on this issue besides Tom Tancredo of Colorado: Either they're afraid of being labeled as "intolerant" or "racist" by the various so called hispanic and so-called rights groups. Or they're in the back pocket of the Mexican government and are being paid off or receive special deals.

When the borders of your country cease to exist, there is no sovereign country. Thats why we must stop the flow of illegal lawbreaking Mexicans and others who cross that border almost daily. And many die crossing it.

Who cares what these people call themselves? So what if they want to be called Minutemen? What's the big deal? They are fed up with the US government in its inability to stop the flood of illegal lawbreakers from Mexico. They are fed up with the violence in their neighborhoods because of these illegal thugs and drug lords. They are fed up with the back and forth violence between the various illegal Mexican factions.
 

leedog2007

Senior member
Nov 4, 2004
396
0
0
Originally posted by: Tango
Originally posted by: Starbuck1975
If these people want to immigrate to America, there are legal and official procedures for doing so.

LOL... Are you serious? Most of the desperates that try to immigrate illigally have not a chance in a million to get a visa. Otherwise they would.
A mexican friend of mine that I met while studying in france still has problems obtaining a tourist visa, not even mention a work permit... And we are talking about a journalist, an highly educated man with a master from ITESO and a degree from parisian university La Sorbonne, he never committed a crime, and has no family...
He told me most of the mexicans that get a work permit for the USA are likely to have bribed heavily some immigration officer in the USA.. and even then it takes forever and they are not sure at all that the process will go fine.

I'm not saying the USA should let the whole mexico in... but don't think those people risking their lifes to immigrate illigally could easily get a legal immigration visa. You are making fun of them. Nobody likes to live like that, if they do is only because they have no choice.

So this makes it ok for them to circumnavigate laws of Mexico and the United States to enter this country illegally?
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
26
81
Originally posted by: CaptnKirk
Minutemen were a small hand-picked elite force which were required to be highly mobile and able to assemble quickly. Minutemen were selected from militia muster rolls by their commanding officers. Typically 25 years of age or younger, they were chosen for their enthusiasm, reliability, and physical strength. Usually about one quarter of the militia served as Minutemen, performing additional duties as such. The Minutemen were the first armed militia to arrive or await a battle.

I see that as a big difference from a bunch of reactionary middle aged rednecks that organize - over the internet, a gathering
of untrained volunteers as a symbol against how our Government conducts branch of Law Enforcement that the Government
won't even come up with adequate funding to provide what the Borded Patrol really needs in personell and Equipment in the first place.

When I was growing up we lived within 15 miles of the Mexican Border, and knew people who worked for the Border Patrol.
They worked pretty damn hard, long thankless hours, lousy condition in stiffling hot weather.

These 'Minutemen' are actually getting in the way of what the Border Patrol is doing, trampling all over the dessert, wiping
out the traks that could be used to trace entry, and setting of the motion detectors and other alarm devices so a few pin-heads
can feel like big-shots and get their name in the paper - yeah, I guess that by todays lower standards that's really 'Patriotic'.

We've had to deploy more Border Patrol to just keep watch so nothing bad happens there, and keep resetting the detectors
that have been triggered, which results in a dilution of method and personell doing what they could have been doing otherwise.

Meanwhile back at the Ranch, the infiltration continues because the law enforcement was off on wild goose chases - because the
normal flow of events was interupted by 'Do-Gooders' who's methods actually were obstruction to the desired outcome.


I guess if you think they're all a bunch of reactionary middle aged rednecks than most of your views is understandable... but all very wrong. First, they aren't a fighting force. How much training do you think they need? (and like I said earlier, why the constant comparisons with the Minutemen of 250 years ago?) How to work the radios, outdoor etiquitte, review of pertinant laws, and some operational procedures are all they are trained in. They are freaking sitting out in lawn chairs, reporting what they see, so don't act like this is some militia.

We did not deploy more border patrol just to keep watch over them. And they are not setting off sensors because they have established checkpoints and procedures worked out with the Border Patrol. You might be thinking of some ACLU and media twerps running up and down the washes over here :roll:

Crossings in that area have dropped significantly. And more importantly, those people are exercising their Constitutional rights to bring attention to a seriously crazy situation down here that politicians on up to Bush aren't taking serious. Trust me, if illegals were running rampant through Crawford Texas, we'd have the 82nd Airborne in it to win it.

Most of what I've heard and seen tells me that the Border Patrol is mostly appreciative of the Minutemen Project and know it is about helping them by putting pressures on those in high places to get real in Southern Arizona. Get through your prejudices and realize that these men and women of all ages, people from all over the country, dentists, lawyers, construction workers, teachers, people taking "vacations" down there for the weekend to help out, and yeah some confederate flags are down there but that doesn't take away for a second the righteousness of the cause and importance of the issue.

 

Delta52

Member
Jan 21, 2005
77
0
0
These guys are just sitting in chairs, and reporting to the border patrol what they see. They are armed to defend themselves, and don't take action on their own. Since when is it wrong to own a gun, have a licence for it, and sit on the border? The BP has said that is is elated that more people are helping out, and wish more were down there. Keep in mind that anyone crossing our border is doing so illegally, I don't care what for, or feel bad for them, IT'S A CRIME.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Yaeh, right guys, Brilliant, Really Really Brilliant

You know anything about the area ? Ever live there in a dessert ?

<CLIP>

Kevin Fenske pointed to freshly scuffed earth under a bent barbed-wire fence.
"You see?" asked Fenske as he knelt down to straighten the wire. "This is where they came in last night."

Fenske, 44, owns a ranch and feed store half a mile from the Mexican border. He's used to migrants crossing his land. But ever since the Minuteman Project, an armed civilian patrol that aims to seal the border, set up shop a little to the west of him, he said he's been overrun. All the project has done is move traffic his way, he said.

"I've had more illegals this week than I've had in the last two months," he said.

But Fenske said he's angrier about what the project has done to his business, which he said has taken a 20 percent loss since the Minutemen arrived April 2. Like most business owners in Douglas, Fenske depends on customers across the border in Agua Prieta.

"They're not coming because they're afraid they're going to be harassed," Fenske said.

Fenske's wife, Cynthia, said she's seen a similar impact at the Wal-Mart Super Center, where she works. Wal-Mart has publicly denied a slowdown, but William Molaski, director of the Douglas Port of Entry, said the store reported a 12 percent drop to him.

While Minuteman volunteers insist their efforts are focused on stopping illegal immigration, others say their presence has created a fearful environment that has angered the town's largely Hispanic population, frightened legal visitors from Mexico and hurt the town's economy.

Douglas is a town of 15,000 people that depends on visitors from the much larger Agua Prieta, population 130,000, for 60 percent of its sales, Mayor Ray Borane said. He said business owners, including those at big-box stores built to take advantage of Agua Prieta's population, have been expressing concern over the project's potential economic fallout.

Borane is a critic of the Minuteman Project and has questioned the potential for violence among armed volunteers recruited over the Internet.

Like many people in Mexico, Agua Prieta native Jose Lopez refers to the Minutemen simply as "caza-migrantes," or migrant hunters. He normally spends around $60 a week in Douglas on groceries. But the 49-year old carpenter doesn't plan to cross the border into Douglas as long as the "migrant hunters" are around.

"I'm legal, but how do I know they're not going to come after me?" Lopez said. "They're migrant hunters. They're bad. And they're armed. That's even worse."

It's illegal to carry a gun in Mexico, Agua Prieta Mayor David Figueroa said. "When you see somebody with a gun, you associate them with the worst elements of Mexican society - drug traffickers or criminals." So even people with visas are scared and don't want to cross, he said.

"Scare off legal visitors in an attempt to reduce illegal immigration?" asked University of Arizona economist Alberta Charney. Not a good idea, she said.

In a study she conducted in 2001, Charney found that Mexican visitors spent nearly $1 billion in Arizona and generated tens of millions of dollars in tax revenue.

Over the past several years, Augy Garcia of the Tucson-Mexico Trade office, has worked to increase Tucson's share of that money. Today, Mexican visitors spend a million dollars a day in Tucson. Part of attracting them here is creating the impression that Arizona is a Mexico-friendly place, Garcia said. The Minuteman Project hasn't made his job easier.
"People here ask me if we're just a bunch of bounty hunters or something," Garcia said at a large manufacturing conference in Hermosillo where he was trying to drum up business and fight off the reputation of the Minutemen.

"The long and the short of it," he said, "is that these people come, and they have their right to express their opinion. But it does have consequences."

Back on his ranch, Fenske works on his fence and wonders about his future.

"We're a small business. It's just us," he said and twisted another piece of barbed wire into shape. "To lose 20 percent, whether it's for a few weeks or a month, it's going to take me months to make that up. To me, that's not right."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Looks like their biggest impact is on the Locals that live there and the Legal's that shop there -
Screwing over the economy for the region becasue they're getting their '15 Minutes'

 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
The main goal here is to stop the thugs, illegal immigrants and other unwanted people that Mexico sends over the border. The reality is that Mexico sends the poorest, most uneducated across the border. No reasonable person can be against securing the border so that these people don't enter the USA.
]
How could anyone be against the border being more secure?

Some people are just whacked out that they can't see reality.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: cwjerome
How freaking stupid can anyone really be? The Minutemen were the result of British "oppression." If anything, the Brits should be wary about their presence at the Mexican border

The Minutemen of the past were concerned with defending AMERICA against foreign "tyranny." How sick and twisted of some idiots here to turn the modern theme of this group into anti-American BS. Only the most warped logic could view the historical Minutemen as "terrorists." It really gives a lot of insight into the out-of-touch way such people think. I would say it's disgusting but it's a hilarious way for these people to keep shooting themselves in the foot :laugh:
Are you really that dim-witted that you cannot see the direct analogy between British occupation of America and the Minutemen fighting them and U.S. occupation of Iraq and the Iraqi "insurgents" fighting us? Oh I'm sure you'll wave your flag real hard and shout some lame-brained jingoistic crap about how I hate America or whatever. So go ahead, get it off your chest, I know you want to.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Originally posted by: raildogg
The main goal here is to stop the thugs, illegal immigrants and other unwanted people that Mexico sends over the border. The reality is that Mexico sends the poorest, most uneducated across the border. No reasonable person can be against securing the border so that these people don't enter the USA.
]
How could anyone be against the border being more secure?

Some people are just whacked out that they can't see reality.

So - You're a Mexican Relations expert ! and know more about the Border Patrol's charter then, say, the Border Patrol ?

You talk like the Government of Mexico recruits and rounds up Millions of 'undesireables' just so they can be sent accross the border
to personally harass you, and give insecure people something to be paranoid about.

Here's a dose of reality

Ask Carlos A. Zozaya Moreno if the "migrantes" crossing the Sonoran desert are dangerous and he'll laugh and shake his head.

Moreno, an agent with Grupo Beta, Mexico's government agency charged with protecting the human rights of migrants, listens to country music as he drives his orange pickup truck through the wilderness just south of Arizona.
He's looking for signs of migrants and keeping an eye on members of the Minuteman Project, a monthlong U.S. civilian effort to watch the border and report crossers to Border Patrol.
Another Grupo Beta agent, Julio Cesar Cancino, says his job is simple ? to provide migrants with food, water and, if needed, a ride back to the city for medical attention.
"The migrants only want to work," he said. Unlike many of the minutemen, yards away on the other side of a barbed wire fence marking the border, the Grupo Beta agents aren't armed.
When asked what the chances are of finding any migrants today, the agents reply, very slim.
Agent Hector Salazar said the minutemen sitting just across the border have deterred some migrants and diverted routes of "coyotes," or immigrant smugglers, but there are still people trying to cross the border here.
"They don't read newspapers or watch TV," he said. "They don't know about the minutemen."
The U.S. Border Patrol attributes the decreased attempts at border crossing to increased activity in the area by Mexican authorities.
On this day, the Grupo Beta agents start hiking at a spot with a water container marked with a blue flag, proceed past the remnants of a camp, and continue as the path narrows. They're following a trail of footprints, abandoned water bottles and tuna cans.
The path becomes just wide enough for one person at a time as it drops into a winding 6-foot ravine. The agents eventually climb out of the ravine, following the trail through twists of brambles. The migrants, they say, travel mostly at night without the aid of a flashlight.
It's hard to keep up with the agents as they move along, in and out of the ravines, ducking below low-hanging branches. The terrain is at times sandy, sometimes rocky. On this April day, it's 80 degrees at noon.
Critics of Grupo Beta say they are helping people illegally enter the United States. Alex Segura, a minuteman and board member of Utahns for Immigration Reform and Enforcement, said booklets that Grupo Beta agents give to those attempting to cross the border suggest they're doing more than providing humanitarian aid.
"The whole bottom line of the whole survival guide is to help them survive their way into this country," he said. "We know their government is actually encouraging" illegal immigration.
The booklets warn about the dangers of crossing the border and provide information about safe passage and their rights if detained in the United States. Another booklet, designed for those from countries other than Mexico, provides information about Mexican laws.
Kat Rodriguez, spokeswoman for Coalici?n de Derechos Humanos in Tucson, Ariz., said most immigrants walk some 75 miles across the desert, a day or more of that before they cross the border. While the minutemen accuse Grupo Beta of aiding and abetting illegal immigration, Rodriguez sees it another way ? they're helping people survive.
"The people have made a decision they are coming," she said. "To say the guide is promoting migration is to say handing someone a first-aid kit is promoting them to go out and get hurt. . . . All you can do is offer them as much as you can to prevent them from getting hurt."

Andy Adame, spokesman for the Tucson Sector Border Patrol, said the Border Patrol's Search Trauma and Rescue Team routinely works with Grupo Beta on cross-border search and rescue missions and attempts to reunite families. Both governments have worked together on the Border Safety Initiative, which this year became year-round, since 2001.
"The bottom line is we're out there trying to save lives," Adame said. "Our primary mission is to secure the border, but we do have a responsibility to make the borders safe."
Adame said he hasn't seen Grupo Beta try to deter anyone from crossing the border, but they do warn people about the dangers.
The summer heat is most severe in western Arizona, he said, where temperatures reach 118 degrees. In the winter, the chill factor in eastern Arizona becomes deadly.
Along the U.S. side of the 261 miles of Tucson sector border, there were 561 rescues and 141 deaths last year, Adame said.
"They address the issue of 'if you come, look out for this,' " Adame said. "We address the issue of 'don't come because of this.' "

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I just don't have a fear of Mexicans comming in and taking my job - I am not one to be Paranoid about some people wanting to better themselves.
Having lived in and about people of Mexican decent for about 55 years it just dosen't reach the level of 'Fear Factor', like a cheap reality show for me.

As they used to say back in High School, "Chinga tu Madre, puta".
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,892
572
126
Do you ever get tired of coming up with excuse after excuse to justify law breaking?

Don't you realize that coming across the border ILLEGALLY is a crime?

When did I say I was a expert in Mexican relations? WTF is Mexican relations anyway?

Yeah ok, so Mr. Moreno of the Mexican government will give a honest and objective view of things that are happening.

Nice to see you are conveniently leaving out the part where hundreds of Mexicans illegally trying to enter the USA die each year. Nice to see you leave out the part where the various Mexican thugs and gangs battle each other near and on the border for drugs and other valuable possessions.

The whole area down there is a mess and the so-called Mexican Army is with the thugs and criminals who smuggle the migrants across.

Nice to see that Mr. Moreno says that these lawbreaking Mexicans only want to work. :thumbsdown:

Doesn't this person know that there is a difference between legal and illegal immigrant? I still can't believe how you can legitimize breaking the law yet be outraged when someone you don't agree with does the same. It's total hypocrisy and you know it.

Capt n Kirk, you simply don't get it. It's not the fear of these Mexicans stealing our jobs, its the fear of these Mexicans and other illegals staying in America ILLEGALLY. They are taking a toll on our infrastructure, on our economy and for how long can we tolerate that? There are tens of millions of LEGAL immigrants and I don't have a problem with them. In fact, we need more immigrants to fill in the void in the workforce left by the aging population. But I want decent, educated immigrants to come here LEGALLY.
 

CaptnKirk

Lifer
Jul 25, 2002
10,053
0
71
Look above you & I've bolded a sentance. How is that leaving something out ?

Don't you realize that coming across the border ILLEGALLY is a crime?



Tell ya what, I don't care - it's not their job, and they shouldn't be interfering where they're not needed.

If they're so damn concerned, why aren't they taking care of buisness back in their own community instead of galavaanting
around in the dessert of another state so they can get some headlines ?

10 to 1 - they're not gonna do squat in their own backyard, they don't have the comittment or the followthrough - Fair Weather Milita, not too cold and not too hot, but just right - Goldielocks likes her porrige in April, when it's just right . . . don't wanna be there in May when it starts gettin' warm. Might miss the Baseball season.

Goin' back to the 9 -5 & be the dad blam city slicker hotshot as seen on TV.

They're phoney.
 
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