On the Tyranny of the Majority in posting on a Left-leaning forum:

[Jaskalas]

“Why do we not make progress?”, “Why is everyone else living as automatons?”.

Apologies, but I must digress and answer something that was not asked. I say we do not "make progress" because a shepherd has not gathered the flock. People would first need to be made... to believe in progress. Before they are willing to drive towards it in both work and in sacrifice. To achieve that end, they must want it. Before they want it, they must be... nudged. Their faith must be moved to align with the goal.

After learning the nature of mankind, I struggle to see value in Democracy. Truly we want and should be free. Yet in that freedom we choose destruction all the same. Perhaps it is just that we have failed so badly. I fail to find value in our achievement. Perhaps other cultures were not so misfortuned as to have befallen this malady, to have fallen to this depth. Though I suspect most, if not all, have blighted.

By right... Trump should have been a mistake. A fluke to be expunged. Yet people clung to him, their identity merged with his... their Egos told the lies. And now no weight of truth will reach their ears. Whatever manner of evil creature he is... many of our people have become the same. Or rather... they always were and I did not see it. They merely waited for an opportunity to show their true faces. That our civility was nothing more than a mask. We are not good people.

The trick, is to realize this nature of mankind is not limited to "them". The "good guys" are also afflicted and are no less willing to offer themselves unto tribal zeal, unto madness.

For a better cause? Well...
At the end of the day, someone is butchering someone else. I do not think the victims care what started it... if the rage of the righteous has reached the innocent and the righteous burn all "others" as heretics irregardless of guilt or truth. There may be a righteous crusade against the evil that is Trumpism, but I'll be damned if I don't pause in horror at the dogmatic zeal to demand uniformity and absolute loyalty on all things. The tyranny of the majority may be an arson intended for Trumpism, but it is a fire that wants to consume us all.

The world is madness, and people but dance upon the pyre.

 

[vjeltz]

Apologies, but I must digress and answer something that was not asked. I say we do not "make progress" because a shepherd has not gathered the flock. People would first need to be made... to believe in progress. Before they are willing to drive towards it in both work and in sacrifice. To achieve that end, they must want it. Before they want it, they must be... nudged. Their faith must be moved to align with the goal.

Jaskalas, no need for apologies. I welcome your input.

You bring up the flock waiting for a shepherd. In that regard we are the lost lamb. Have you seen a lost little baby lamb? They are sooo adorable, how could you not want to save them. It would break your heart not to scoop them up in your arms and help them to safety.

But now think of the poor beggar, covered in sores. Unvaccinated, unclean and just down right smelly. You would gag just walking up to that diseased person. But yet they are no less worthy of our love.

Do you find it easier to approach the lost lamb or the syphilitic beggar?

Why would we want to make everyone diseased and make our work that much more difficult? Why do you make Trump and his followers into diseased beggars when they could be cute little lost lambs?

Everyone says the beggar may have a knife or a gun, they are dangerous but then happily go prancing to the edge of a cliff to save the baby lamb.

There may be a thought floating around that I do not see that many paths lead to nowhere. Or that I feel that all paths are the same. Or that people shouldn't be assisted with finding their path. That could not be further from my reality.

Based on Moonbeam's complete nonsense book suggestion I may have been following this sage advice: "If you go on a spree, then go the whole hog, including the postage."

Perhaps you are familiar with Gurdjieff’s All and Everything or Carlos Castaneda’s series on the teachings of Don Juan.
The latter is likely a work of fiction and the former full of what I think is complete nonsense. None the less each in their own ways I regard as full of far deeper wisdom than I possess. I think it was from the Don Juan series that I picked up what I think is a gem. "There are a million paths and they all lead nowhere. Choose a path that has a heart."

I am absolutely acquainted with the Don Juan series. That is also a very appropriate quote.

I, however, have not read Gurdjieff’s All and Everything. I have picked it up and I am delighted by its insanity or its sanity. I do appreciate the reading suggestion.

I agree with much of what you say. Although, a conversation about how we are the same is much less interesting. So I shook the tree to see what fruit would fall. Sure sometimes a beehive lands on my head but the honey is always delicious. Thank you for the meal, I will digest it over a good book.

 

[Moonbeam]

There may be a thought floating around that I do not see that many paths lead to nowhere. Or that I feel that all paths are the same. Or that people shouldn't be assisted with finding their path. That could not be further from my reality.

Based on Moonbeam's complete nonsense book suggestion I may have been following this sage advice: "If you go on a spree, then go the whole hog, including the postage."



I am absolutely acquainted with the Don Juan series. That is also a very appropriate quote.

I, however, have not read Gurdjieff’s All and Everything. I have picked it up and I am delighted by its insanity or its sanity. I do appreciate the reading suggestion.

I agree with much of what you say. Although, a conversation about how we are the same is much less interesting. So I shook the tree to see what fruit would fall. Sure sometimes a beehive lands on my head but the honey is always delicious. Thank you for the meal, I will digest it over a good book.

When I read this which I agree with: "I hope you can see that we are only offering our personal version of truth. That is fine, but when you think your version of truth is the one true version and everyone else is sick then we end up back at square one. Then those same people point the finger and say “Why do we not make progress?”, “Why is everyone else living as automatons?”."

My response was not to offer a counter to what you said, but to suggest that in my opinion seeing the programmed reactions of people as facts they do not want to see as autonomic and reflexive is how we are. The problem comes when you point your finger at people for that behavior and blame them for it. That is part of the importance of seeing that we are all the same. Nobody is to blame because the motivations that drive us are out of awareness, and that introspection thingi is difficult to teach.

Furthermore, what I read into the idea that there are a million paths in life and they all lead nowhere is that the goal is the hearts desire and, by whatever means you awaken, it is that truth which will be realized so shoot for that from the beginning. But it is the crossing that matters not by what bridge.

Finally, I don't think that people shouldn't be assisted with finding their path. I meant only that would require a level of development, in my opinion I do not have. All I know is that I searched desperately to end my existential suffering, fail, gave up and experienced something totally unexpected that ended it. I see a picture of the Rock Monster in The NeverEnding Story who once had big good strong hands until he met the Nothing.

So I just let go. The Nothing isn't much of a threat go that which is not.

“The Moving Finger writes; and, having writ,

Moves on: nor all thy Piety nor Wit

Shall lure it back to cancel half a Line,

But why is the attention of the the writing and not the blank paper?
-------------
I think therefore I am. And that's the problem.
-------------

 

[DigDog]

/set_reminder unblock Moonbeam 30days!

only 11 more days !!

 

[cytg111]

Words

 

[DigDog]

garbage

why would you post this trash.

 

[darkswordsman17]

why would you post this trash.

You do realize its a comedian poking fun at him, right? Granted I'm not gonna watch 2+ hours of it, but its better qualitative analysis of this stuff than most of the trash, like Bill Maher that people on here post alarmingly frequently.

Frankly, I think I gave JP too much credit. I assumed he actually wasn't a complete idiot, but holy hell, he really does just talk nonsensical vagaries on every single subject, likely because he knows so little that he's trying to shoehorn his base "we must protect the poor persecuted straight white dudes" argument onto every other subject and in doing so has to basically just claim that nothing means anything except for when and what he claims it does.

I got like a minute in and when Joe Rogan looks like an intellectual titan next to you by simply asking "uh, what do you mean by 'everything'" and then JP proceeds to declare that everything means nothing because he's declared it as such, well...damn. Like, I genuinely didn't realize JP was just that simply stupid. He really is like a much older Ben Shapiro. Only now he seems to be trying to position himself as the negative contrast to Bill Nye or something?

 

[DigDog]

You do realize its a comedian poking fun at him, right?

as a great JP fan - not without criticisms - i have to admit that he is really a poor communicator. You need to watch stuff like this:

to understand what he's about. Or this

That video isn't about "poking fun", it's about a guy who can't understand a word of what Peterson says.

The truth - to me - is that JP is not prepared for the debate war that he's been thrown into. He's used to communicate in science terminology and doesn't do well at all with hostile debaters. He doesn't understand .. or refuses to acknowledge .. that his interlocutors have a vested interest in making their point, and are not just discussing science.

 

[cytg111]

why would you post this trash.

Cause the board has had it disputes over this so called gentleman, I believe him to be trash, an over inflated ego, opportunist and an asshole. So I post this to reinforce my point. Any more questions?

 

[cytg111]

as a great JP fan - not without criticisms - i have to admit that he is really a poor communicator. You need to watch stuff like this:

to understand what he's about. Or this

That video isn't about "poking fun", it's about a guy who can't understand a word of what Peterson says.

The truth - to me - is that JP is not prepared for the debate war that he's been thrown into. He's used to communicate in science terminology and doesn't do well at all with hostile debaters. He doesn't understand .. or refuses to acknowledge .. that his interlocutors have a vested interest in making their point, and are not just discussing science.

All that granted. He outs himself as a fucking asshole over the twitter debacle… I mean he outed himself well before that but not in a definitive fashion as that.
He is an asshole with super conservative viewpoints and he is assholing them loud in public.

Dude could do SO MUCH GOOD, cause 90%of his talking points are getting on point… 10% man… ten percent.

 

[DigDog]

All that granted. He outs himself as a fucking asshole over the twitter debacle… I mean he outed himself well before that but not in a definitive fashion as that.
He is an asshole with super conservative viewpoints and he is assholing them loud in public.

Dude could do SO MUCH GOOD, cause 90%of his talking points are getting on point… 10% man… ten percent.

conservatives think he's a liberal, liberals think he's a conservative.
The truth is that science doesn't give a fuck.

Now .. if he could stop talking like a robot .. maybe people could make some sense of what he says.

 

[Pontius Dilate]

conservatives think he's a liberal, liberals think he's a conservative.
The truth is that science doesn't give a fuck.

Now .. if he could stop talking like a robot .. maybe people could make some sense of what he says.

It's not that he talks like a robot, it's that he says stupid shit. The first part of the Some More News video shows the good doctor straw-manning the argument that we should take action on climate change by alleging that those who argue for action are saying we need to change "everything" because the environment is "everything" and therefore those words don't mean anything, as well as alleging that because climate scientists can't model "everything" they can't model the climate. The underlying theme of the piece is that JP consistently argues for maintaining the status quo because the things that people want to change are either not real, not understood properly or too complex. Which kind of makes him a conservative. Or maybe he should just be more precise in his speech.

 

[cytg111]

conservatives think he's a liberal, liberals think he's a conservative.
The truth is that science doesn't give a fuck.

Now .. if he could stop talking like a robot .. maybe people could make some sense of what he says.

Nope, his “science” is bunk as well.

 

[DigDog]

Nope, his “science” is bunk as well.

well .. i don't really like to defend JP because, as i've said, he's terribad at getting his point across, or even interacting with his interlocutor, but i can say that the science is on point.

 

[mikeymikec]

The truth - to me - is that JP is not prepared for the debate war that he's been thrown into.

And yet he's still talking.

He apparently has a doctorate in psychology. In his days as a student, would he have appreciated it if a climate change scientist delivered a lecture on his psychology course and filled it with blather about how some people think "psychology is everything"? Or would he have wondered why some fucktard was wasting everyone's time in that lecture hall?

Do you know what I say to a customer that asks me about a topic that I know little about? "I'm sorry, I don't know much about that". I want my customers to believe that if I have something useful to say, then I will say it. Otherwise I'm presenting meaningless blather and unsubstantiated BS as having the same value as expert knowledge.

 

[DigDog]

He apparently has a doctorate in psychology.

look, this isn't going anywhere and i'm not gonna get entangled into this discussion.
You can easily read his educational history online, from various sources of your own choosing.

 

[cytg111]

well .. i don't really like to defend JP because, as i've said, he's terribad at getting his point across, or even interacting with his interlocutor, but i can say that the science is on point.

His cherry picking of science is on point. Yes. He can back up all his claims with data… he will Never talk about the data that disagrees with him. Thats how you know he is a poser.

 

[DigDog]

he will Never talk about the data that disagrees with him.

what do you base this claim on?

i have watched short of 40 hours of his lectures pre-SJW-war era and find him to be an absolutely brilliant scientist; as a comparison, when *I* criticize Michio Kaku, i explain WHY i do it.

 

[cytg111]

what do you base this claim on?

i have watched short of 40 hours of his lectures pre-SJW-war era and find him to be an absolutely brilliant scientist; as a comparison, when *I* criticize Michio Kaku, i explain WHY i do it.

Most of his popular stuff online. His stereotyping of men, women, based on data from the sixties… In the pursuit of happiness, he will always go with his opinion over “this is the quality of our data”.
And he knows better. He understands better. But he still choses to shovel shit.
Thats me real gripe with peeps like Jordan… I know that they know… yet the continue the scam… there is no redemption there.

 

[dank69]

conservatives think he's a liberal, liberals think he's a conservative.
The truth is that science doesn't give a fuck.

Now .. if he could stop talking like a robot .. maybe people could make some sense of what he says.

The mistake here is lending any credit to what conservatives think is liberal.

 

[DigDog]

His stereotyping of men, women, based on data from the sixties
And he knows better.

i'm sorry, but i wholly disagree on all of this and it's something i cannot go back on.

 

[cytg111]

i'm sorry, but i wholly disagree on all of this and it's something i cannot go back on.

Ok. You think that physician is criminal?

 

[DigDog]

Ok. You think that physician is criminal?

Yo Dawg
I heard you are a fan of body modification

To give you a honest answer, when people do this shit to themselves, i shake my head in disbelief. I wouldn't call the surgeon a criminal, but strongly disagree with their ethics.

 

[cytg111]

Yo Dawg
I heard you are a fan of body modification

To give you a honest answer, when people do this shit to themselves, i shake my head in disbelief. I wouldn't call the surgeon a criminal, but strongly disagree with their ethics.

You dont have to understand it.
You just have to support another sovereign human beings pursuit of happiness.

And to be honest I dont think you understand what you do here,

 

[DigDog]

You just have to support another sovereign human beings pursuit of happiness.

Dude, i don't think you get me. I will judge the fuck out of you, for the TIE that you wear. Self-mutilation is absolutely a no-no.


My standing on Gay / Trans / whatever rights is;

You have the right to have sex with who you want, you have a right to dress as you want. I support same sex marriage, and i'm willing to close an eye to same sex couple adoption.
hmm ... that's about it.