Once again, a brave cop goes home tonight

[zanejohnson]

there should have never been LEO contact at all.

but because of the busybody citizen, there was.

he should have used some damn moral judgement and common sense, you dont go guns blazing at a 12 year old on the playground.


if there's nothing else he could have done by your logic, we need to completely rethink the entire police/patrol system.. as in, there shouldn't be a cop dispatched so willy nilly to a scene where it was already clear, the child was 12, and it was potentially a bbgun.

im starting to really think we need to follow suit with UK, and disarm police. i am realistic though, and know that would never happen, because of the general attitude of Americans, and their "built-in bully complex."

the entire system in this country is designed to institutionalize persons from childhood onwards, it really does,... it got worse when they started putting police officers/forces in schools, metal detecters, truant officers, and so forth.. when children starting getting real life charges (that could literally relocated them from their homes to juvenile correction facilities), it's setting a kid up for failure, to become an inmate in our elaborate "corrections," system, which in reality is nothing more than the cogs of a massive prison state incarceration system... 5 percent of the world's population, 25 percent of the worlds incarcerated population.. THAT is what causes this bullshit.

 

[shira]

Let's see here...











Yeah, definitely a bad shoot...

- Merg

There's also this statement:

Jeff Follmer, president of the Cleveland Police Patrolmen's Association, said the officers were not told the caller thought the gun might be fake.

But this claim clearly originiated with the officers themselves, who aren't exactly unbiased witnesses.

 

[The Merg]

@zanejohnson:

Understood, but I think we have to look at the situation from different points of view. The park in question is in Cleveland, but I don't think we know the exact location in regards to crime rate and safety there.

If I bring my 6 year old to the park and see another kid there that could be a teenager waving what could or could not be a real gun, I think I'm going to call the police.

The police officer arrives and sees the kid grab a gun and hide it in his pants. When told to put his hands up, he reaches for the gun instead. I find it hard to believe the cop thought while responding to the call that he thought this is the time he gets to shoot a kid.

Is it a tragic situation? Yes. There's a dead 12 year old kid.

- Merg

 

[The Merg]

There's also this statement:







But this claim clearly originiated with the officers themselves, who aren't exactly unbiased witnesses.

That's why I didn't even bother including that as justification. While I understand the goal and the effort of the union to protect their officers, sometimes they shoot themselves in the foot by things they say and do (no pun intended).

- Merg

 

[zanejohnson]

and what happened to asking some questions, getting some info, was he alone on that playground? i'm sure if other kids knew it was a bbgun they were probably very vocal in letting this cop know, it was just a toy.

 

[zanejohnson]

i dont know, i just get sick of hearing this EVERY DAY NOW it's starting to be, another kid dead. murdered by the police.

 

[The Merg]

i dont know, i just get sick of hearing this EVERY DAY NOW it's starting to be, another kid dead. murdered by the police.

Murder implies it was not justified. We don't know that for sure yet. Now, it is a homicide though.

- Merg

 

[zanejohnson]

Murder implies it was not justified. We don't know that for sure yet. Now, it is a homicide though.

- Merg

it's never gonna be considered murder no matter what, because it was "in the line of duty."

my gripe is the "line of duty," is wrong, immoral.

just like this other kid, in Ferguson, i mean, it's kind of like how when you trap an animal, if it can't run anymore, it bites! they're trapping these kids like animals, it's systematic, trap. from the time they're just kids, they're growing up fearing, and hating, LEO.. for pretty damn good reason! these cops too, they're trapped, policing these streets, full of trapped animals, that hate them! i just tried to find a statistic on how many african males spend time incarcerated, the most realistic figure i could find is 1 in 3..... a third of these kids will end up spending time in prison.. that's a pretty horrible thought, when you're growing up you realize that 1 in 3 chances are you're going to prison..... that might just make you decide, that in a fight or flight situation with an LEO, you might need to fight... that's looking at it from another perspective.

 

[HTFOff]

it was just a toy.

Airsoft guns are not toys. You have to be 18 to purchase one in most locations and it's heavily regulated state by state. Try to jokingly hold up a convenience store with a water pistol. Then try it with an airsoft gun, anywhere, in any state. Congratulations, the law interprets the airsoft gun as an actual firearm in said circumstance. Bad day? Yes very. Look up canada's laws for a laugh.

And one more thing.

I find the loss of a 12 year old's life to a stupid misunderstanding extremely depressing.

But I can safely speak for the entire board when I say that your insufferable, borderline incoherent ramblings on all things related to the "system" whenever the opportunity arises in order to make yourself feel better about your failed, seedy past neither helps the situation nor entertains us. The next time you sit down with your hot pockets in front of the pc and feel like "spreadin' some knowledge", please think it through. Please.

Toodles.

 

[zanejohnson]

Airsoft guns are not toys. You have to be 18 to purchase one in most locations and it's heavily regulated state by state. Try to jokingly hold up a convenience store with a water pistol. Then try it with an airsoft gun, anywhere, in any state. Congratulations, the law interprets the airsoft gun as an actual firearm in said circumstance. Bad day? Yes very. Look up canada's laws for a laugh.

And one more thing.

I find the loss of a 12 year old's life to a stupid misunderstanding extremely depressing.

But I can safely speak for the entire board when I say that your insufferable, borderline incoherent ramblings on all things related to the "system" whenever the opportunity arises in order to make yourself feel better about your failed, seedy past neither helps the situation nor entertains us. The next time you sit down with your hot pockets in front of the pc and feel like "spreadin' some knowledge", please think it through. Please.

Toodles.

i wish i had a hot pocket right now, those things are delicious

but for real, the system is broken, everyone knows it, why do you try to defend it? and who cares about the past, my past made a much smarter, successful person, you know why? because i learned from it, you should maybe try that.. at least i can comment from experience in these threads, when your just talking directly out of your ass.

 

[CZroe]

really i think this all stems from just TOO MANY DAMN COPS. EVERYWHERE.

most of these situations, whether the young black man acted "aggressively," or not, there really have just never been contact with LEO in the first place! that's the real problem!

They responded to a call and were willing to show up and put their life in danger. Are you seriously saying that this was caused by having "too many?" What? Would you prefer that the call go unanswered? What about when the gun and the threat is genuine?!

 

[JEDIYoda]

The police officer arrives and sees the kid grab a gun and hide it in his pants. When told to put his hands up, he reaches for the gun instead. I find it hard to believe the cop thought while responding to the call that he thought this is the time he gets to shoot a kid.

That was the officers official story that was not verified by any witnesses.....

 

[JEDIYoda]

They responded to a call and were willing to show up and put their life in danger.

That's what cops do...comes with the territory and the job description......
The cold hard fact is that way too many children are being shot by ops!

Also it was reported that the caller who called in this child used the words a fake gun...I don`t know if it`s real....

So you tell me-- perhaps the cops could have asked a few questions?

Why were the cops afraid for their lives when they had their weapons drawn...even before the kid supposedly reached for is fake weapons...something just does not add up...

 

[Victorian Gray]

I'm wondering why the dispatcher never passed on the info that the caller provided re that it involved a juvenile and also that the caller believed that the gun was probably a fake. Seems that would be pertinent information for the officers to have.

 

[spacejamz]

I'm wondering why the dispatcher never passed on the info that the caller provided re that it involved a juvenile and also that the caller believed that the gun was probably a fake. Seems that would be pertinent information for the officers to have.

what if that information had proven to be false? the dispatcher has no way of knowing if the caller actually knew if the gun was real or not....

 

[Victorian Gray]

what if that information had proven to be false? the dispatcher has no way of knowing if the caller actually knew if the gun was real or not....

It's still pertinent information, both of the gun and the alleged age group.

 

[doubledeluxe]

Not one but two cops were there. You have to wonder about the probability of two cops fucking up vs a 12 year old with a replica gun making a bad decision.

 

[The Merg]

I'm wondering why the dispatcher never passed on the info that the caller provided re that it involved a juvenile and also that the caller believed that the gun was probably a fake. Seems that would be pertinent information for the officers to have.

It very well can be pertinent info, but you can't blame the cops for not knowing that if they were never told that info.

- Merg

 

[OverVolt]

Super-realistic looking fake gun. Sorry, that kid has dumb parents and the kid should know better. I KNEW BETTER when I was that age, so whatever. I would never pull a fake gun on the cops as a prank as you wind up dead. Exhibit #1.

 

[boomerang]

from the time they're just kids, they're growing up fearing, and hating, LEO..

Writing your autobiography here?

 

[Londo_Jowo]

I heard about this when I was watching the local news this morning and I don't see how anyone can determine if this was real or not in a matter of seconds.

http://www.cleveland.com/metro/index.ssf/2014/11/12-year-old_boy_shot_by_clevel_1.html

 

[Victorian Gray]

It very well can be pertinent info, but you can't blame the cops for not knowing that if they were never told that info.

- Merg

And where was I doing any such thing?

 

[FerrelGeek]

Simple solution, cops stay out of inner-city black neighborhoods - period. Let the gangs be the local law enforcement.

For the mentally challenged, that hyperbole ^^^^^^^

On a serious note, a young black inner-city boy/man faces far more danger from his fellow young black men/boys than he does from the cops. Don't believe me, go look up black-on-black crime statistics.

 

[The Merg]

And where was I doing any such thing?

Sorry. Wasn't saying you did. Was adding an additional thought onto my response to you. Guess the "but" was the wrong word to use.

- Merg

 

[Blanky]

@zanejohnson:

Understood, but I think we have to look at the situation from different points of view. The park in question is in Cleveland, but I don't think we know the exact location in regards to crime rate and safety there.

If I bring my 6 year old to the park and see another kid there that could be a teenager waving what could or could not be a real gun, I think I'm going to call the police.

The police officer arrives and sees the kid grab a gun and hide it in his pants. When told to put his hands up, he reaches for the gun instead. I find it hard to believe the cop thought while responding to the call that he thought this is the time he gets to shoot a kid.

Is it a tragic situation? Yes. There's a dead 12 year old kid.

- Merg

:thumbsup:

The difference between your post and others is you're using your head and thinking it through without hysterics.

Based on the two articles I've read about this:

1) The person was right to call the cops
2) The cop was right to shoot the kid

When a cop asks you to raise your hands because he sees what may be a handgun and instead you reach for it, you get shot every time. Everybody knows this.

The articles so far point the blame 100% on the kid for acting like an idiot with something that looks like a real pistol.