One American Muslim's 9/11 Story

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
Good speech.

I know the US military have chaplains, but didn't know the police departments have them also. Looked into the kinds of services they provide.

- Being called to the scene of a traumatic incidents to provide comfort to all involved
- Notifying next-of-kin in death or serious injury incidents
- Offer follow-up assistance to victims of crisis
- Furnish referral or resource assistance
- Counseling individuals or families experiencing stressful situations
- Give confidential counsel to police personnel
- Be available to families of officers in traumatic situations
- Provide personal or family counseling
- Help with Critical Incident Stress Debriefing to all first responders

All well and good, but why do people with religious affiliations need to be performing these services, paid for with taxes?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
Separation of church and state.

They could be regulated like military chaplains; non-denominational in regards to counseling.
why do they need to be regulated??? Do you actually know what separation between church and state means?? Most atheist have no clue....
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
why do they need to be regulated??? Do you actually know what separation between church and state means?? Most atheist have no clue....

I would say that most atheist that I have met have a pretty good grounding in what the separation of church and state means, as defined by SCOTUS. It is Christians that are continually trying to redefine it in the public discourse to suit their own ends.

Separation of church and state means literally what it says. The State and [all] Church[es] will remain separate. The State will not endorse, nor cause to be endorsed, any Church, or religious belief, nor will The State will pass laws concerning any Church, or religious belief.

So, a police Chaplin walks a find line. It could easily be seen as the state endorsing a religion by hiring a religious authority figure to preform a religious function.
 

Madwand1

Diamond Member
Jan 23, 2006
3,309
0
76
I didn't hear anything denominational in his speech, and those who object to his affiliation apparently didn't understand what he was saying.
 

justoh

Diamond Member
Jun 11, 2013
3,686
81
91
I didn't hear anything denominational in his speech, and those who object to his affiliation apparently didn't understand what he was saying.

You stated you didn't hear anything "denominational" in his speech, yet nobody suggested that there was.

You stated those who object to his affiliation didn't understand what he was saying, yet what he said has nothing to do with our objections to his religious affiliation as a paid counselor for the police department, nor could it.

Let me guess... you're religious?
 

JEDIYoda

Lifer
Jul 13, 2005
33,982
3,318
126
So, a police Chaplin walks a find line. It could easily be seen as the state endorsing a religion by hiring a religious authority figure to preform a religious function.
Umm no! I seriously doubt a chaplain walks a fine line!
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,270
9,343
146
if thats a muslim im a catholic priest

Yes, he's a Muslim. That's the freaking point. But, by all means, cling to whatever bigoted generalizations rule your heart.
 

SMOGZINN

Lifer
Jun 17, 2005
14,218
4,446
136
Umm no! I seriously doubt a chaplain walks a fine line!

So, then you think it flatly breaks the separation of church and state? I tend to agree. I don't see the need for the government to pay for such services. Certainly if we allowed it such deeds would be preformed for charity? Rid us of religious civil servants and open the doors to allow the local religious community take care of their own.
 

DigDog

Lifer
Jun 3, 2011
13,620
2,188
126
i'm from a catholic country. my family is catholic so you could say that we (me included) are catholic.
sure we have a few people up in the mountains which actually still believe jesus is real and that angels watch you; but pretty much nobody will freak out if you cut your beard, eat meat on a friday or curse the pope.

otoh, the vast majority of people who define themselves muslim tend to be quite strict with their muslimness and how it influences their lives.

now i know mine's just a shot in the dark, but i'd guess that 'there new york boi (prolly third generation at least) is about as much a muslim as your average canadian is "italian" or "french".
 

jackstar7

Lifer
Jun 26, 2009
11,679
1,944
126
i'm from a catholic country. my family is catholic so you could say that we (me included) are catholic.
sure we have a few people up in the mountains which actually still believe jesus is real and that angels watch you; but pretty much nobody will freak out if you cut your beard, eat meat on a friday or curse the pope.

otoh, the vast majority of people who define themselves muslim tend to be quite strict with their muslimness and how it influences their lives.

now i know mine's just a shot in the dark, but i'd guess that 'there new york boi (prolly third generation at least) is about as much a muslim as your average canadian is "italian" or "french".

The bolded is entirely anecdotal... at best. I would guess that just as many muslims as any other major religion are not especially active in their faith, but rather enjoy the cultural aspects and benefits of it. And my guess is just as meaningless as yours.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
guess again....
Guess what? He presented his rational train of thought that not all practicing members of a stated religion may be perceptively defined as orthodox.

If you have an issue, then in this forum, the Discussion Club, we expect you not offer empty statements. JEDIYoda, I return this challenge to you -- respond with your definition for what variations a Muslims you expect and ought to be, failing that, recant your barb against jackstar7 and acknowledge his shades of grey.
 

Whiskey16

Golden Member
Jul 11, 2011
1,338
5
76
if thats a muslim im a catholic priest
You missed the article:

He graduated ten years ago, in 2004, with a major in Middle Eastern Studies and a minor in Politics. Just a year after graduation, he was appointed the first Muslim chaplain here and two years after graduation, the first Muslim chaplain at Princeton. In 2007, under his leadership, the Islamic Center here became the first ever established Muslim student center at any institution of higher education in the United States. And also that year, when he was 24, mayor Michael Bloomberg nominated him to become the youngest chaplain in the history of the NYPD.

Through his work, Imam Latif has demonstrated not only an exceptional dedication to gaining and disseminating religious knowledge and values but has begun to carve out a much needed space for young American Muslims to celebrate their unique identity and have their voices heard in the larger public sphere, working tirelessly to foster dialogue with people of other faiths, in order to clarify misconceptions and encourage mutual education. In 2012, Imam Latif co-founded with our vice chancellor, Linda Mills, our rabbi, Yehuda Serna and Chelsea Clinton the Of Many Institute, a programatic (?) groundbreaking model for multi-faith leadership at a university level.
DigDog, how is this Imam, not a Muslim?

I expect you to better justify your statement, and with support, refute the validity of the above mini-biography, or acknowledge your error.

i'm from a catholic country. my family is catholic so you could say that we (me included) are catholic.
If, because this Imam is from and living in New York, may not be a Muslims, how may you be Catholic, in Scotland, 3 centuries under the head a Protestant monarch?

now i know mine's just a shot in the dark, but i'd guess that 'there new york boi (prolly third generation at least) is about as much a muslim as your average canadian is "italian" or "french".
The majority of Québécois may not be Catholic, neither?

Personal religion must abide by nationalism, citizenship? You are muddling far too much here.

Though, I will affirm an already presented conclusion -- as the chastising against the Secret Service, your bias is clearly prejudiced for Muslims to be of foreboding dread rather of hopeful cooperation and peace, as presented by this Imam.
 
sale-70-410-exam    | Exam-200-125-pdf    | we-sale-70-410-exam    | hot-sale-70-410-exam    | Latest-exam-700-603-Dumps    | Dumps-98-363-exams-date    | Certs-200-125-date    | Dumps-300-075-exams-date    | hot-sale-book-C8010-726-book    | Hot-Sale-200-310-Exam    | Exam-Description-200-310-dumps?    | hot-sale-book-200-125-book    | Latest-Updated-300-209-Exam    | Dumps-210-260-exams-date    | Download-200-125-Exam-PDF    | Exam-Description-300-101-dumps    | Certs-300-101-date    | Hot-Sale-300-075-Exam    | Latest-exam-200-125-Dumps    | Exam-Description-200-125-dumps    | Latest-Updated-300-075-Exam    | hot-sale-book-210-260-book    | Dumps-200-901-exams-date    | Certs-200-901-date    | Latest-exam-1Z0-062-Dumps    | Hot-Sale-1Z0-062-Exam    | Certs-CSSLP-date    | 100%-Pass-70-383-Exams    | Latest-JN0-360-real-exam-questions    | 100%-Pass-4A0-100-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-300-135-exams-date    | Passed-200-105-Tech-Exams    | Latest-Updated-200-310-Exam    | Download-300-070-Exam-PDF    | Hot-Sale-JN0-360-Exam    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Exams    | 100%-Pass-JN0-360-Real-Exam-Questions    | Dumps-JN0-360-exams-date    | Exam-Description-1Z0-876-dumps    | Latest-exam-1Z0-876-Dumps    | Dumps-HPE0-Y53-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-HPE0-Y53-Exam    | 100%-Pass-HPE0-Y53-Real-Exam-Questions    | Pass-4A0-100-Exam    | Latest-4A0-100-Questions    | Dumps-98-365-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-98-365-Exam    | 100%-Pass-VCS-254-Exams    | 2017-Latest-VCS-273-Exam    | Dumps-200-355-exams-date    | 2017-Latest-300-320-Exam    | Pass-300-101-Exam    | 100%-Pass-300-115-Exams    |
http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    | http://www.portvapes.co.uk/    |