OnePlus 3

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dawheat

Diamond Member
Sep 14, 2000
3,132
93
91
Serious question here, but what the hell do you want from a phone that the OP3 will not provide?

Apparently the iOS grid, basically the same apps and experiences, and 3D touch which no one uses. It's super exciting.

Both OSes are relatively stagnant and adding features that no one really uses. Honestly the biggest usability increase in the last year? Double click buttons to auto launch the camera from a locked phone - nothing else has materially changed my daily usage as much as that. That's where we are.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
Serious question here, but what the hell do you want from a phone that the OP3 will not provide?

3 Requirements, I am not saying the OP3 will or will not provide these, but these are critical for me even to consider you a smart phone purchase option whether its the OP3 or something else.



#1

Battery Life (I am not saying the OP3 will have good or bad battery life, the mAH is disappointing but that is just one of many factors with battery life) we will see if the One Plus Three will deliver that.

#2

CPU Speed, not necessarily the newest CPU cores but some form of big Core (not A7, A53, etc) that works well and does not have consistency problems. Here is two examples of consistency problems A) switching from ARM cluster to another ARM cluster providing noticable and obvious latency. Or due to overheating / throttling problems.

We will see if the One Plus Three will deliver a good performing and consistent CPU experience, I am expecting it to do so for the Qualcomm 820 seems to be working much better than the Qualcomm 810 and 808. Personally I am not sure the 810 and 808 were improvements over the 805 and 801 in everyday usages due to this throttling, see here

http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/2015/04/in-depth-with-the-snapdragon-810s-heat-problems/

I don't care about marketing speak such as is my CPU is 64 bit or not (what does it matter if its a 32 bit OS), or I have a total of 8 cpus or 4 cpus or 2 cpus (due to the various architectures and how they use the various implementations of ARMS bigLittle) what matters is real world performance and real world stability and consistency.

#3

Software, new android on purchase, with further expectations that the Android will be updated in a reasonable timeframe, and the interaction layer must meet one of these three criterias (most people call this last point bloat).

On the bloat situation with skins and such it must fall in one of three categories.

A) Can have bloat but must have a way to turn it off (acceptable),

B) Can have bloat but the bloat does not impact performance and it is just minor "skin like changes" (acceptable, my experience with touchwiz on Galaxy 3 and 4 was not acceptable). B rarely ever happens but antecedently I hear it can happen like some of the older HTC products or option

C) Pure skin android or close to it.
 

core2slow

Senior member
Mar 7, 2008
774
20
81
Great specs with great price, just not for me. I'm not getting fooled over this whole dash charging/fast chagring/quick charging marketing talk. There's a difference between having my phone last longer vs charging faster that people tend to overlook.

Small screen, small battery, no removable storage -- yea... no.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,128
6
81
Great specs with great price, just not for me. I'm not getting fooled over this whole dash charging/fast chagring/quick charging marketing talk. There's a difference between having my phone last longer vs charging faster that people tend to overlook.

Small screen, small battery, no removable storage -- yea... no.
Small screen? It's 5.5"! lol The battery isn't really small but it ain't big either. No removable storage - I can't contest that.
 

zod96

Platinum Member
May 28, 2007
2,861
67
91
So go it today. And wow coming from a Nexus 5X this phone is much better in every dept. They even put on a screen protector. Display is awesome the AMOLED really stands out. I couldn't tell a difference from this screen and my friends Nexus 6P. The sound even though it has a speaker on the bottom, is still louder and clearer than my Nexus 5X. Phone came with about 40% power, with the cable included it charged to 100% in about 15 minutes. Oxygen OS is super smooth, I notice no lag at all. I love the stock Android. The phone build quality is top notch compared to the Nexus 5X. Its super thin yet well balanced to hold. And coming from 5.2 inch Nexus 5X to the OP3 at 5.5 inch does not feel that much bigger at all, great size. It also has the active display thing like the Moto x phones have which is great, just wave your hand over the phone and it opens. The camera is super fast, pictures are great better than the Nexus 5X. And I love how on the back its just the Oneplus logo no FCC numbers or anything like that a very clean looking phone. And it has VOLTE for Band 12 on T-Mobile. So far loving the phone. Now I just hope Oneplus keeps it going in the software update dept
 

kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
468
0
76
CPU Speed, not necessarily the newest CPU cores but some form of big Core (not A7, A53, etc) that works well and does not have consistency problems. Here is two examples of consistency problems A) switching from ARM cluster to another ARM cluster providing noticable and obvious latency.

While I was skeptical about the big.Little approach, it appears it does way better on your 1st point than Qualcomm big cores. Reading the GSMArena review of the "Sony X Performance" it appears to not be able to stand up to the regular X with a SD 650 in terms of battery life. Even with a more efficient manufacturing process and slightly bigger battery.
Any link for the "providing noticeable and obvious latency" claim?

Best value phones of 2016 will be running on the SD 650 IMO.
 

v-600

Senior member
Nov 1, 2010
488
3
76
I've been reading reports that the oneplus 3 is not using its 6GB of ram for better multitasking but for better battery life. Any ideas what's going on there?
 

ChronoReverse

Platinum Member
Mar 4, 2004
2,562
31
91
I've been reading reports that the oneplus 3 is not using its 6GB of ram for better multitasking but for better battery life. Any ideas what's going on there?

It's just sophistry. What's actually being claimed is that the OP3 is heavily cutting down on running apps so as to reduce battery usage. Fair enough, Samsung does the same thing. But that is orthogonal to 6GB of RAM and you can do just the same even if you were on 3GB of RAM.

So the 6GB of RAM is there for the spec sheet when people compare numbers between phones.
 

kpkp

Senior member
Oct 11, 2012
468
0
76
It's just sophistry. What's actually being claimed is that the OP3 is heavily cutting down on running apps so as to reduce battery usage. Fair enough, Samsung does the same thing. But that is orthogonal to 6GB of RAM and you can do just the same even if you were on 3GB of RAM.

So the 6GB of RAM is there for the spec sheet when people compare numbers between phones.

It would actually be more battery efficient with less RAM... But they need marketing talking points.
 

core2slow

Senior member
Mar 7, 2008
774
20
81
Ok, I'm curious. What is your target cell phone screen size? What are your cell phone needs that demand >5.5"?
RDP client, vmware vSphere, etc. I have a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with me in case there's an emergency and I need to take a look at something quick and efficient. I have a Mate 8 right now with 6in screen but I wouldn't mind something like a xaomi Mi Max (6.44in), sadly it doesn't support T-Mobile LTE.

Aside from the screen, I also need a big battery because running Cisco AnyConnect will surely wipe out any puny phone's battery without hesitation. So a big screen with big battery will always be at the top of my list.
 

quikah

Diamond Member
Apr 7, 2003
4,086
664
126
RDP client, vmware vSphere, etc. I have a Bluetooth mouse and keyboard with me in case there's an emergency and I need to take a look at something quick and efficient. I have a Mate 8 right now with 6in screen but I wouldn't mind something like a xaomi Mi Max (6.44in), sadly it doesn't support T-Mobile LTE.





Aside from the screen, I also need a big battery because running Cisco AnyConnect will surely wipe out any puny phone's battery without hesitation. So a big screen with big battery will always be at the top of my list.



Almost sounds like a Windows phone with continuum dock would be a good solution, though you would need access to external screen to make it useful.



A nexdock would be a possibility also.
 
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core2slow

Senior member
Mar 7, 2008
774
20
81
Almost sounds like a Windows phone with continuum dock would be a good solution, though you would need access to external screen to make it useful.



A nexdock would be a possibility also.
Windows phone...that's a good joke there man lol. Nah i have too much invested in Android mainly tasker, so no, iOS or WP would never be an option (unless they now support tasker) Then again, iOS/WP doesnt do big phones with big batteries, and in the case of WP, their big phones come with shitty SoC.
 

mrochester

Senior member
Aug 16, 2014
471
16
91
It would actually be more battery efficient with less RAM... But they need marketing talking points.

This just highlights the disconnect between spec sheets and actual user experiences. Since 2007 we've heard how the iPhone is under-specced, yet it's user experience tends to exceed that of much higher specced competitors.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,128
6
81
Windows phone...that's a good joke there man lol. Nah i have too much invested in Android mainly tasker, so no, iOS or WP would never be an option (unless they now support tasker) Then again, iOS/WP doesnt do big phones with big batteries, and in the case of WP, their big phones come with shitty SoC.
How about an LTE enabled tablet for when you have to work remotely? You have a killer case for such a device, I've never been able to make one like that.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,128
6
81
The point is, boring specs and boring software. Again. There's nothing to get excited about here.
Megatomic said:
Serious question here, but what the hell do you want from a phone that the OP3 will not provide?

I'm definitely excited for iOS 10. I can't say there's any one thing that excites me more than another, I'll reserve judgement of that until I get a chance to try it. It just further cements how much further ahead Apple is of the competition. Google really really need to start properly controlling Android the way Apple does with iOS.

Well I guess this answers that question... The OP3 is missing an Apple logo.
 

Roland00Address

Platinum Member
Dec 17, 2008
2,196
260
126
This just highlights the disconnect between spec sheets and actual user experiences. Since 2007 we've heard how the iPhone is under-specced, yet it's user experience tends to exceed that of much higher specced competitors.

I understand where you are comming from, and I agree with you, but for the sake of arguement let me address whether iphones are underspec

---

Lets name these

Part A) CPU

Part B) GPU

Part C) RAM

Part D) Screen




CPU

Since the iPhone 4s the iPhone has not been under spec in any way on the CPU front, in fact it usually has the fastest cpu around. (iPhone 4s was the 5th generation iphone in 2013 we are now on the 9th generation which is the iPhone 6s and 6s Plus and iphone SE). Some years android has cpu on the flagship Android phones that trade blows with that generation iPhone and in some generations (most of the recent ones) the iPhone blows the android cpus out of the water being 20 to 50% faster.





GPU

Since the iPhone 4s the gpu on iPhones has also been class leading.




RAM

Android phones always have more ram than the iPhones for the flagship Android. They often have more ram than they know how to use. Some of the years Apple underspecs their iphones on the amount of ram they have, but some of them while not as much ram as competing android it has enough ram to not be any downside but not excess ram for the sake of excess ram. Such iPhones I am thinking about are the iPhone 5 (6th generation) and the iPhone 6s (9th generation), the iPhone 5s really did not suffer that much from a ram perspective (aka the 7th generation) but it was starting to get to the point you could make the argument, the iPhone 6 (aka the 8th generation) really needed more ram but the lack of ram did not impair the performance of the task you were doing in the task you were doing the iPhone did as well as android and often better, the lack of ram just made the multitasking capabilities of the iPhone 6 as not as much as it should have been for it caused things like too many tabs in webpages to cause reloads and new retrievals etc.

Too much ram that is not being used has two downsides.

1) It uses more power and thus less battery life. Sure the Soc (CPU and GPU) and the Screen are the biggest power draws but ram is still important to have a big effect on battery life.

2) Excess Ram causes different preferences for the software coders and OS design. Apple uses a different model of how applications use RAM that is more ram efficent but more a pita for software developers this technique is called Reference Counting. Android uses something called automatic Garbage Collection which when the ram is not being used by the program the OS decides that ram is not being used and thus reallocate it. The downside of Garbage Collection is that it sometimes "wastes ram" vs an efficently desgined reference counting program and that it wastes cpus cycles for instead of just relinquishing the ram, you do now a search at every interval whether this ram is being used or not and you are not working on the main task for you are just doing upkeep.

Put another way Reference Counting is like filling up a dumpster and then calling the garbage company once its full. Routine Garbage Collection is like sending a Garbage Truck every so days to all the garbage stops and then dumping sometimes full dumpsters, sometimes empty, and sometimes inbetween.

Thus to summarize number 2, how android does software requires more ram by design, but it also causes lazy programming that sometimes uses excess ram that the software designer should pay attention to, and finally even with the best design android program you are going to be wasting some cpu cycles on garbage collection overhead. While Garbage Collection overhead is not a big deal for most software when you are doing something that is very time sensitive that is measured in microseconds such as certain types of interactive gaming (think VR) or the best audio apps both listening and recording waiting for the program to respond due to the delay of several microseconds every so often by the Garbage Collection overhead can be a very big deal.

(Do note lots of changes in Android 5 and Android 6 are the eventual successor to Android 6 are meant to address these concerns and to lower some of the downsides of garbage collection by doing various tweaks)

So all the nitty gritty for Reference Counting vs Garbage Collection makes the ram situation more complicated for you can't just look at RAM on a spec sheet but instead have to test real world conditions like is the lack of ram causing further delays with more page loads, or more retrieval from emmc storage vs ram, for just having more ram does not always translate into real world performance increases.




Screen

The iPhone 4 (aka the 4th generation) had easily the best screen of its time. It caused screen to be a bigger deal with Android phones that they started investing more money in the screen 2010). Downside of iPhone 4 is that the such an improvement of resolution and the lesser increase of GPU improvement caused some tasks the iPhone 4 did worse on the GPU compared to the iPhone 3GS, so while the screen was so much better sometimes it stuttered.

The iPhone 4s fixed all that and arguably had the best screen at the time. That said in 2011 when the iPhone 4s was out the Samsung Galaxy S2 also had a great screen, and when 2012 came out the Iphone 5 screen was better in some areas and the Galaxy S3 was better in other areas. Note I am using the Samsung Galaxy S series as a reference point for android for most of the time they had the best android screens and they the Galaxy series is one of the best sellers of Android phones.

Since that time (2012 on, but definately 2013 on) android has a lot of good screens that are arguably better than the iPhone but even in the high end space there are also a lot of mediocre and average screens that the iPhone beats, but there is at least one or two android phones that have a superior screen to the iPhone. The iPhone is still awesome, but lets use an analogy of a high school test to help explain it. The iPhone of various models it is like getting an A on a test or a 90 and iPhones consistently score a 90 of each various generation years, but some android phones are like an A+ lets say 95, and some are an A++ 97 to a 100. That said even in the high end android phone space a lot of android high end phones are 80 to 90 and 80 to 95 on their test scores.

In other words on the screen front since 2013 iPhones have very good screens but not the best, and from 2010 to 2012 iPhones has the best screens or were tied with the best androids.

-----



In conclusion about the specs of Android vs Apple

So if you read all of that, you will see that I made the argument that iPhones have never been underspeced, and even when androids have better specs it is not necessary all 4 categories I referenced (CPU, GPU, Ram, Screen) but often just 1 or 2 of the categories and even in those 1 or 2 categories the iPhones did not suck it is just in some thing Android was just slightly better.

I will argue by combining good specs in those 4 things as well as having complete control over the OS to optimizes the best performance of those 4 categories allows Apple to deliver a superior performance to Android overall.

-----

That said I am an android fanboy and you will not pry my android phones from my fingers. The only way you can separate my android phone from my body is to remove my fingers for my fingers are attached to my android devices.


I am an android fanboy but I can also ecognize the good things Apples do with their phones. I personally prefer android over ios not because of the harder, but because I like the freedom and flexibility that I can get with my android phones on the software and apps front and that I personally do not benefit much from the upsides of the "walled garden" of apple. Now the downsides of the walled garden are not as extreme as they used to be for Apple has open up both on apps as well as improve their core OS that usually everything that most people can do on apple iOS can be done on Android and vice versa.

That said for other users who do not have my preference for all of that freedom and the ability to do things with software earlier than Apple. The people who just download apps and use the internet browser the iPhone arguably gives a far better experience than android. But the things that android does well on a software front I personally like better and think that makes the phone more valuable but it only does so to some people but not others.

In other words what is the best phone depends on the person and what do they see as the most important things.

(Now that I said that I will make some form of arcane reference to the manga Attack on Titan about how living in walls is not necessarily always a good thing, and give me my freedom)
 
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KeithP

Diamond Member
Jun 15, 2000
5,660
198
106
I've been reading reports that the oneplus 3 is not using its 6GB of ram for better multitasking but for better battery life. Any ideas what's going on there?


Apparently it is true…
http://9to5google.com/2016/06/17/on...-surrounding-ram-management-on-the-oneplus-3/

On paper, 6GB of RAM would lead most users to believe that they could easily have several apps open at a time without anything reloading, however upon getting devices, many users have found that the phone can only hold 3 or 4 apps in memory before removing them. Why is that the case? Pei quite simply responded by saying that OnePlus has a “different strategy for RAM management that benefits battery”.

-KeithP
 

core2slow

Senior member
Mar 7, 2008
774
20
81
How about an LTE enabled tablet for when you have to work remotely? You have a killer case for such a device, I've never been able to make one like that.
Nah, first and foremost it has to be a phone and pocketable. I have a pixel C, but when I'm out and about, I don't want to be carrying too much. Just need something that teeter on the brink of being too big but still daily usable and fit in pockets. That's why I praise companies who excel in screen-to-body ratio department and doesn't cheap out on the battery.

Now with the latest news about the OP3 detuning the 6gb of ram for battery life (and reports that the battery life is marginal at best) it makes you wonder why even buy this phone at all. Maybe they shouldn't have cheap out on the battery size like everyone with a brain was saying. The only saving grace is the SD820, but then again, there are cheaper SD820 phones out there with better battery life than the OP3.
 

MarkizSchnitzel

Senior member
Nov 10, 2013
424
50
91
Ok, I'm curious. What is your target cell phone screen size? What are your cell phone needs that demand >5.5"?

- reading ebooks
- browsing
- pictures
- navi
- email
- easier typing (probably a habit)
- file management

That covers my needs that are far more enjoyable with something like a 6" OLED.

But also: gaming and videos.

All of the above activities are superior on a larger screen. The only thing is for individual decide if ergonomics (one handed usage, pocketability) trumps the inferior UX. IMHO.
 

poofyhairguy

Lifer
Nov 20, 2005
14,612
318
126

Yup, and their "solution" is to put out a patch (NOT an update or version of the OS!) that means you have to run a third party non-official ROM to utilize. So to use all the hardware in your phone you have to use an OS that isn't officially support for the phone. Yet another One Plus marketing blunder from the company that is a pro at it by now.

Given how it took until this month for the One Plus Two to get Marshmellow (aka how long it took for my freaking AT&T Galaxy S6 to get Marshmellow), I don't' know why anyone who is an "Android Enthusiast" would take them seriously. If you don't care about update or honest spec sheets then Xiaomi is king of the cheap phone makers in 2016. One Plus is only for Americans scared to mess with an imported phone.
 

Megatomic

Lifer
Nov 9, 2000
20,128
6
81
Yup, and their "solution" is to put out a patch (NOT an update or version of the OS!) that means you have to run a third party non-official ROM to utilize. So to use all the hardware in your phone you have to use an OS that isn't officially support for the phone. Yet another One Plus marketing blunder from the company that is a pro at it by now.

Given how it took until this month for the One Plus Two to get Marshmellow (aka how long it took for my freaking AT&T Galaxy S6 to get Marshmellow), I don't' know why anyone who is an "Android Enthusiast" would take them seriously. If you don't care about update or honest spec sheets then Xiaomi is king of the cheap phone makers in 2016. One Plus is only for Americans scared to mess with an imported phone.
Most Xiaomi phones don't have LTE bands that fully support USA. That makes them even less worthwhile than Oneplus.
 
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