Only 31% of Americans want an EV or PHEV. What about you?

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K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,648
34,477
136
I'm calling BS on hertz. If the cars were damaged, wouldn't they go after the renter for the cost if they didn't buy their overpriced insurance? I've tried to rent a tesla from them for the past two months and can't get one. Depreciation, yes. They bought at peak pricing and new prices have come way down. There is probably some other corporate sleazebag reason for this move. We will probably never know it.

I mean this makes sense but I can tell you that I've seen quite a few Teslas with damage over at Avis. One they tried to give us in Hawaii looked like somebody drove against the curb for a block on the passenger side (body damage, rims trashed, and tires looked like they were going to come apart at any time). Like you guys are going to rent this thing to people?
 
Reactions: Zorba

drnickriviera

Platinum Member
Jan 30, 2001
2,422
205
116
This article from MotorTrend goes a little more in depth on the decision versus the article posted by pcgeek from the Verge of all places. Anyway, a big concern from executives back in October was repair costs associated with their rideshare venture with Uber.
I'd be curious to know if the damage rates were the same for ICE Uber vehicles. People can't handle dat ev torque? Doing the horizontal mambo with autopilot on? You would think anyone remotely involved in the auto industry would know Tesla's are expensive to repair
 

manly

Lifer
Jan 25, 2000
11,310
2,341
136
It's nothing personal man. You wouldn't go to a steakhouse and order the fish or go to a burger joint and order the chicken sandwich so why go to a tech news site for automotive news.
I don't go out of my way to read The Verge, but they seem OK as a tech news site. Although I think your general point is fine, Ars Technica has good automotive reporting IMHO.

The problem over at Hertz seems to be somewhat unique to their situation. They bought 50k EVs (80% of which were overpriced Teslas) only to turn around and sublet a bunch to Uber? And in the process, they didn't bill Uber enough for collision repair costs that everyone back in 2021 knew was a problem? Whoever at Hertz was the front man for buying tens of thousands of Teslas deserves to be fired; everything else in this story is just a smoke screen.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
The miles on the EVs they are selling make it look like the telsas at least are getting plenty of rentals. All the cheap teslas have 70k+.
Which is about 300k in normal car miles. Those cars are probably trashed. I've been in rental cars with 30k miles that are in much wider shape than my cars with 200k.
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
I mean this makes sense but I can tell you that I've seen quite a few Teslas with damage over at Avis. One they tried to give us in Hawaii looked like somebody drove against the curb for a block on the passenger side (body damage, rims trashed, and tires looked like they were going to come apart at any time). Like you guys are going to rent this thing to people?
I flew into STL and rented a car 3 times this summer. Each time I had to switch cars multiple times on the lot to get one that didn't look like it came from the salvage yard. Then all 3 I ended up taking had nails or screws in the tires. It's insane how much Avis has gone downhill since 2020.
 
Reactions: Ken g6 and K1052

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
I'd be curious to know if the damage rates were the same for ICE Uber vehicles. People can't handle dat ev torque? Doing the horizontal mambo with autopilot on? You would think anyone remotely involved in the auto industry would know Tesla's are expensive to repair
I'm sure the power results in a lot of extra accidents for people in rentals. Misuse of autopilot probably does too.
 

Brovane

Diamond Member
Dec 18, 2001
5,447
1,656
136
I'm sure the power results in a lot of extra accidents for people in rentals. Misuse of autopilot probably does too.

The Model Y I rented from Hertz last year didn't have the enhanced Auto-pilot or full self-driving. Just the basic adaptive cruise control and the lane following steering which is like what most modern cars have now. However the lady at the rental place did warn me the car did have a lot of acceleration and you could get yourself in trouble quickly.
 
Reactions: Ken g6 and Zorba

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,498
4,594
136
It's nothing personal man. You wouldn't go to a steakhouse and order the fish or go to a burger joint and order the chicken sandwich so why go to a tech news site for automotive news.

Just a link that popped up while surfing the net...
 

ondma

Platinum Member
Mar 18, 2018
2,764
1,348
136
100% when I buy my next car it will be a hybrid and most likely a Toyota.
Living in Minnesota, AWD Corolla hybrid looks like it would be a great choice, or even the Corolla Cross AWD hybrid, but my wife doesnt like the high step in of a CUV. Right now, I have a Subaru Impreza. I would consider another Subaru if they finally bring a good selection of hybrids to their lineup.
 
Reactions: Zorba

waffleironhead

Diamond Member
Aug 10, 2005
6,924
437
136
I wanted a rav4 prime, but was told lead time was 2 years. Lol no. Dumped the tundra for a rav4 hybrid, and still had to wait 6 months. Went from 12-14 mpg to 42.
We dont really have the power to do a full EV without laying new cable to the garage.
 

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,498
4,594
136

Tesla supercharging station packed in Oak Brook, dead cars line parking lot due to frigid temps


OAK BROOK, Ill. - Electric vehicles may be the way of the future, but many EV owners are having trouble dealing with Chicago’s bitterly cold temperatures.

Public charging stations have turned into car graveyards over the past couple of days.

"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent," said Tyler Beard, who has been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon. "And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday."

Beard was among the dozens of Tesla owners trying desperately to power up their cars at the Tesla supercharging station in Oak Brook. It was a scene mirrored with long lines and abandoned cars at scores of other charging stations around the Chicago area.

"This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

Mizelle was forced to abandon her car and get a ride from a friend when it wouldn’t charge.


No thanks!
 

Indus

Lifer
May 11, 2002
10,352
7,004
136

Tesla supercharging station packed in Oak Brook, dead cars line parking lot due to frigid temps


OAK BROOK, Ill. - Electric vehicles may be the way of the future, but many EV owners are having trouble dealing with Chicago’s bitterly cold temperatures.

Public charging stations have turned into car graveyards over the past couple of days.

"Nothing. No juice. Still on zero percent," said Tyler Beard, who has been trying to recharge his Tesla at an Oak Brook Tesla supercharging station since Sunday afternoon. "And this is like three hours being out here after being out here three hours yesterday."

Beard was among the dozens of Tesla owners trying desperately to power up their cars at the Tesla supercharging station in Oak Brook. It was a scene mirrored with long lines and abandoned cars at scores of other charging stations around the Chicago area.

"This is crazy. It’s a disaster. Seriously," said Tesla owner Chalis Mizelle.

Mizelle was forced to abandon her car and get a ride from a friend when it wouldn’t charge.


No thanks!

No different from a dead battery in a gas car in the cold of winter.

People think EV's batteries are different than other batteries.. harsh reminder that all batteries will die in the cold!

TBH I can see owning an EV but primarily because I drive less than 2000 miles a year and don't take long road trips.

Sound a lot more reliable than say Kia's or Hyundai's with their engine trouble!
 
Last edited:

pcgeek11

Lifer
Jun 12, 2005
21,498
4,594
136
No different from a dead battery in a gas car in the cold of winter.

People think EV's batteries are different than other batteries.. harsh reminder that all batteries will die in the cold!

May be, but I can change a gasoline powered car/truck battery in 30 minutes using a few hand tools and a cheap new battery.

Try that with an EV...
 
Reactions: Red Squirrel

Red Squirrel

No Lifer
May 24, 2003
67,856
12,339
126
www.anyf.ca
I have a 2 stage snow blower that runs on 80v batteries. Works well and I take the batteries inside. If I do leave them in the machine and try to run it after it sat in the garage it will not run. Lithium ion batteries really don't like the cold. So yeah they're going to have to figure out something for EVs. You also can't be expected to plug it in for it to start, because that's not an option if you are away from home and parked long somewhere like a mall or what not, where there is no plug.

IMO until the battery tech improves EVs should just have a gas range extender by default. This range extender would essentially have 2 functions, top up battery while driving if it gets below a threshold, but also heat the battery if you start the car and it's very cold.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,582
5,292
136
No different from a dead battery in a gas car in the cold of winter.

People think EV's batteries are different than other batteries.. harsh reminder that all batteries will die in the cold!

TBH I can see owning an EV but primarily because I drive less than 2000 miles a year and don't take long road trips.

Sound a lot more reliable than say Kia's or Hyundai's with their engine trouble!
It always comes down to personal needs. If your commuting to work and have a 50amp charger at home an EV is very sensible, as long as the power grid in your area isn't overloaded.
 

Torn Mind

Lifer
Nov 25, 2012
11,782
2,685
136
No different from a dead battery in a gas car in the cold of winter.

People think EV's batteries are different than other batteries.. harsh reminder that all batteries will die in the cold!

TBH I can see owning an EV but primarily because I drive less than 2000 miles a year and don't take long road trips.

Sound a lot more reliable than say Kia's or Hyundai's with their engine trouble!
CCAs are literally a measurement at 0 degrees celsius. Are you saying the 500-800 CCAs on most 12V lead-acid batteries as labelled is fraud?

Lead acids are replaceable and if you are living in conditions like the Midwest, eventually, people will learn about the rust and the periodic maintenance. And even if cost is an issue, the option of used or reconditioned batteries exists.

EVs ARE different because it is not user neglect that creates the unfavorable results that cost time and money at the least, and sometimes a life at the worst(disabled vehicle and medical emergency).
 

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
It always comes down to personal needs. If your commuting to work and have a 50amp charger at home an EV is very sensible, as long as the power grid in your area isn't overloaded.
No one talks about the local grid when installing AC or an electric oven, why the concern over it for an EV? My AC uses far more electric than my Bolt and at a higher current draw.
 

Greenman

Lifer
Oct 15, 1999
20,582
5,292
136
No one talks about the local grid when installing AC or an electric oven, why the concern over it for an EV? My AC uses far more electric than my Bolt and at a higher current draw.
It's added load. Where I lived in the Bay Area summer blackouts were common because of AC loads. Now they're banning gas appliances in parts of the area which will exacerbate the problem.
Add a few hundred electric cars charging and it wont make a difference, add a few thousand electric cars, a few thousand electric water heaters, and a few thousand electric ovens, and will become a problem.

I've never seen a residential AC that draws a continuous 50 amps, and that was the most common sized car charging circuit I installed. I don't recall what the continuous draw was when charging, obviously something less than 50amps.
 
Reactions: pcgeek11

bbhaag

Diamond Member
Jul 2, 2011
6,743
2,121
146
My Emporia pulls 48 amps on a 60 amp circuit when charging my Mustang. 48 amps is the max that most EVs can charge at when using L2 charging. Charging from 20% to 85% usually takes around 6 or so hours of continuous load which is much much greater than most residential appliances like HVAC systems, dryers, or electric ranges.

Energy in Illinois isn't California expensive but it's not like Illinois is exactly a cheap state to reside in. To help offset the cost I usually charge over night when rates are a little cheaper and the load on the grid is a little less.
 
Reactions: highland145

Zorba

Lifer
Oct 22, 1999
14,796
10,221
136
My Emporia pulls 48 amps on a 60 amp circuit when charging my Mustang. 48 amps is the max that most EVs can charge at when using L2 charging. Charging from 20% to 85% usually takes around 6 or so hours of continuous load which is much much greater than most residential appliances like HVAC systems, dryers, or electric ranges.

Energy in Illinois isn't California expensive but it's not like Illinois is exactly a cheap state to reside in. To help offset the cost I usually charge over night when rates are a little cheaper and the load on the grid is a little less.
I haven't actually measured my AC current draw, but it is on a 60-amp circuit. In August it'll easily run over 6 hours a day.

Obviously the grid will have to be improved to accommodate EV demand, especially for large Level 3 demand, but I think it's a bad faith argument when no one says anything about the grid when people are adding central air or building a new neighborhood. Capacity will grow with demand, just like it has for the last 120 years.
 
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