Only one Pinetrail MB out so far, where/when are the others?

mfeller2

Member
Dec 28, 2006
54
0
66
For a while now, only the first Intel Pinetrail platform is available. Any news on when others might show up?

I am planning on building a new system, and can wait a month or two vs. now if I have better choices.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
what exactly do you mean by "only the first"? what exactly are you waiting for?
 

mfeller2

Member
Dec 28, 2006
54
0
66
what exactly do you mean by "only the first"? what exactly are you waiting for?

I think Intel had a couple of Atom 330 variants. I could be mistaken. Anyway, Zotac, Asus, Jetway, and maybe a couple of others had 330 offerings.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
81
I think the problem is Ion or lack thereof. Atom 330 has the Ion option, Pine Trail does not. Ion 2 is supposed to show in a few months, so I suspect the non-Intel MB makers are waiting for Ion 2.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
I think the problem is Ion or lack thereof. Atom 330 has the Ion option, Pine Trail does not. Ion 2 is supposed to show in a few months, so I suspect the non-Intel MB makers are waiting for Ion 2.

which according to intel is illegal for nvidia to make. The pinetrail platform:
1. Slightly reduce manufacturing cost (yet it costs more to buy)
2. slightly reduce power consumption (justification for higher cost)
3. Made it incompatible with ION.
 

Rifter

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
11,522
751
126
intel shot themselves in the foot with pinetrail, i mean the made it incompatable with ION on purpose, what were they thinking. And its barley faster than the original. I had high hopes for it but not now, i think its junk.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
81
which according to intel is illegal for nvidia to make. The pinetrail platform:
1. Slightly reduce manufacturing cost (yet it costs more to buy)
2. slightly reduce power consumption (justification for higher cost)
3. Made it incompatible with ION.

intel shot themselves in the foot with pinetrail, i mean the made it incompatable with ION on purpose, what were they thinking. And its barley faster than the original. I had high hopes for it but not now, i think its junk.

This is absurd, Pine Trail is going to outsell the original Atom 2:1. Ion only has an impact in the NetTop space and Netbooks outsell Nettops 10,000:1. Intel could care less about Nettops.

Ion 2 will "attach" via a mobile PCI slot just like the Broadcom HD card. It won't be illegal, it isn't a chipset, rather a graphics extender. That's part of the reason it's taking so long. It's not as if Intel gace Nvidia any advance specs to work with.

You can already buy Pine Trails for $300, and Pine Trail has only been on the market for a month. If you remember the original Eee 7" screen was $399 out of the gate. Brand new PT's for $200 on BF.

I couldn't be happier with how Intel is executing its business model. Except the $1.2B to AMD, Gag!!!
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
I couldn't be happier with how Intel is executing its business model.!

So you're okay with them basically making the most minimal improvements to Atom, locking out competitor's chipsets for it, and using shady business tactics to keep manufacturers from using competing CPUs? The Via Nano actually outperforms the Atom by a large margin, and the newest models have nearly the same power envelope.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
81
So you're okay with them basically making the most minimal improvements to Atom, locking out competitor's chipsets for it, and using shady business tactics to keep manufacturers from using competing CPUs? The Via Nano actually outperforms the Atom by a large margin, and the newest models have nearly the same power envelope.
Absolutely, it's about profit. Intel should be very profitable. Stock holders love profitable companies. Simply read Anand's latest Atom article to understand Pine Trail's upgrades or lack thereof. Mostly about lower cost and power, almost no performance increase.

The Via Nano actually outperforms the Atom by a large margin,
You'll have to prove that statement. But even if it were true it wouldn't matter. If AMD is a marginal player in x86, Via is 0ne-tenth of AMD and couldn't produce the 2+M CPU's/mo the Netbook space will consume. I remember HP having a Via Netbook, where is it today?

locking out competitor's chipsets
It's an industry tread, in two generations from now chipsets will disappear, on AMD too. All the chipset functionality will be on die, Atom is just one of the first. Get on board the train or get run over.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
intel shot themselves in the foot with pinetrail, i mean the made it incompatable with ION on purpose, what were they thinking. And its barley faster than the original. I had high hopes for it but not now, i think its junk.

AFAIK an investigation against them was started by the US and specifically mentioned the pinetrail vs ion issue.

It's an industry tread, in two generations from now chipsets will disappear, on AMD too. All the chipset functionality will be on die, Atom is just one of the first. Get on board the train or get run over.
You are confusing integration with induced incompatibility... the sandy bridge works via integration, the current ATOM did not INTEGRATE anything, it is a die with two separate chips and it is meant to break compatibility. They COULD have designed it to be a genuine integration (which would still cut out nvidia, but do so legitimately)

You should look at this anandtech article: http://www.anandtech.com/cpuchipsets/showdoc.aspx?i=3728
It shows how pinetrail atom works and how no real integration is going on, rather it is simply a sabotage attempt at ion. It is a shame intel is so insecure, it has the best products by far, yet its insecurity keeps on getting it into trouble with the law.
 
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Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
You'll have to prove that statement. But even if it were true it wouldn't matter. If AMD is a marginal player in x86, Via is 0ne-tenth of AMD and couldn't produce the 2+M CPU's/mo the Netbook space will consume. I remember HP having a Via Netbook, where is it today?

Easy enough to prove, first hit on a Google search for 'Via Nano benchmarks'.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/10/193205

You don't see many Nano based netbooks on the market because of Intel's shady tactics, locking out competitors, induced incompatibilities, having programs check CPUIDs for Intel and running slower if non-Intel is detected, etc.
 

21stHermit

Senior member
Dec 16, 2003
927
1
81
Easy enough to prove, first hit on a Google search for 'Via Nano benchmarks'.
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/02/10/193205

You don't see many Nano based netbooks on the market because of Intel's shady tactics, locking out competitors, induced incompatibilities, having programs check CPUIDs for Intel and running slower if non-Intel is detected, etc.
From your link:
Power consumption
Next to performance, the issue that most preoccupies netbook manufacturers is power consumption. For power economy, Intel's Atom has a clear advantage. The 1.8GHz VIA Nano needs a hefty 20W more under full load than the Atom.
What good is a faster Nano if the battery is dead? All you Intel bashers overlook the competitors "little" flaws. How convenient. The fact that 50-million Atom netbooks have been sold is clear evidence that the market has voted . . . decisively. Clearly the Atom was fast enough for those folks and BTW it was still running at the end of the day. Cheers.
 

Bateluer

Lifer
Jun 23, 2001
27,730
8
0
From your link:
What good is a faster Nano if the battery is dead? All you Intel bashers overlook the competitors "little" flaws. How convenient. The fact that 50-million Atom netbooks have been sold is clear evidence that the market has voted . . . decisively. Clearly the Atom was fast enough for those folks and BTW it was still running at the end of the day. Cheers.

It is hard for the consumer to vote when they aren't given the choice, thanks to Intel. HP made a Nano netbook, but charged more for it compared to their own Atom models, and never supported it.

There needs to be more diversification in the netbook market or it will become just a passing fad, which is what Intel seems to want.

Will all the restrictions Intel and Microsoft put on netbooks using their stuff, its more remarkable that we don't see any diversification.
 

taltamir

Lifer
Mar 21, 2004
13,576
6
76
What good is a faster Nano if the battery is dead? All you Intel bashers overlook the competitors "little" flaws. How convenient. The fact that 50-million Atom netbooks have been sold is clear evidence that the market has voted . . . decisively. Clearly the Atom was fast enough for those folks and BTW it was still running at the end of the day. Cheers.

Pointing out the fact that intel is engaging in illegitimate business practices is not "intel bashing" and there is nothing little about us.
that extra 20 watt will not kill your battery, it will reduce it somewhat, but it will still be better then a regular laptop.

Also, please do not quote things out of context:
Power consumption
Next to performance, the issue that most preoccupies netbook manufacturers is power consumption. For power economy, Intel's Atom has a clear advantage. The 1.8GHz VIA Nano needs a hefty 20W more under full load than the Atom. Here, the Atom's 45nm feature size pays off. But VIA can compete in this area with its power-efficient 1.3GHz variant, which is used in Samsung's new NC20 netbook. Despite this chip's lower clock speed, it should still be able to beat the higher-clocked Atom in important benchmarks, such as the internet tests.
When the entire paragraph is quoted the meaning changes. If battery is the most important to you, then the samsung NC20 netbook with VIA's 1.3ghz CPU matches the atom's power consumption while being faster across the board.

Intel has better marketing, better market presence (preexisting contracts with all the manufacturers), momentum (people are used to it), and generally very good product quality on their side. However intel is insecure about its penis size and likes to bully other companies to make itself feel like more of a man; it does that by engaging in illegal business practices. Which is stupid for intel, because it makes the best overall products around (even if in this case they are second best in terms of power and performance, they still have the manufacturing advantage which would allow them to leverage pricing), and those extra gains from such behavior are offset by massive punitive fines for such behavior.
 
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