Onward Christian Soldiers

GrGr

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Sep 25, 2003
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Onward Christian Soldiers - The Rapture awaits You Hallelujah

There Is No Tomorrow

By Bill Moyers

01/30/05 "The Star Tribune" -- One of the biggest changes in politics in my lifetime is that the delusional is no longer marginal. It has come in from the fringe, to sit in the seat of power in the Oval Office and in Congress. For the first time in our history, ideology and theology hold a monopoly of power in Washington.

Theology asserts propositions that cannot be proven true; ideologues hold stoutly to a worldview despite being contradicted by what is generally accepted as reality. When ideology and theology couple, their offspring are not always bad but they are always blind. And there is the danger: voters and politicians alike, oblivious to the facts.

Remember James Watt, President Ronald Reagan's first secretary of the interior? My favorite online environmental journal, the ever-engaging Grist, reminded us recently of how James Watt told the U.S. Congress that protecting natural resources was unimportant in light of the imminent return of Jesus Christ. In public testimony he said, "after the last tree is felled, Christ will come back."

Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out across the country. They are the people who believe the Bible is literally true - one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index.

That's right - the rapture index. Google it and you will find that the best-selling books in America today are the 12 volumes of the "Left Behind" series written by the Christian fundamentalist and religious-right warrior Timothy LaHaye. These true believers subscribe to a fantastical theology concocted in the 19th century by a couple of immigrant preachers who took disparate passages from the Bible and wove them into a narrative that has captivated the imagination of millions of Americans.

Its outline is rather simple, if bizarre (the British writer George Monbiot recently did a brilliant dissection of it and I am indebted to him for adding to my own understanding): Once Israel has occupied the rest of its "biblical lands," legions of the antichrist will attack it, triggering a final showdown in the valley of Armageddon.

As the Jews who have not been converted are burned, the messiah will return for the rapture. True believers will be lifted out of their clothes and transported to Heaven, where, seated next to the right hand of God, they will watch their political and religious opponents suffer plagues of boils, sores, locusts and frogs during the several years of tribulation that follow.

I'm not making this up. Like Monbiot, I've read the literature. I've reported on these people, following some of them from Texas to the West Bank. They are sincere, serious and polite as they tell you they feel called to help bring the rapture on as fulfillment of biblical prophecy. That's why they have declared solidarity with Israel and the Jewish settlements and backed up their support with money and volunteers. It's why the invasion of Iraq for them was a warm-up act, predicted in the Book of Revelations where four angels "which are bound in the great river Euphrates will be released to slay the third part of man." A war with Islam in the Middle East is not something to be feared but welcomed - an essential conflagration on the road to redemption. The last time I Googled it, the rapture index stood at 144 - just one point below the critical threshold when the whole thing will blow, the son of God will return, the righteous will enter Heaven and sinners will be condemned to eternal hellfire.

So what does this mean for public policy and the environment? Go to Grist to read a remarkable work of reporting by the journalist Glenn Scherer - "The Road to Environmental Apocalypse." Read it and you will see how millions of Christian fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed - even hastened - as a sign of the coming apocalypse.

As Grist makes clear, we're not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs. Nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election - 231 legislators in total and more since the election - are backed by the religious right.

Forty-five senators and 186 members of the 108th Congress earned 80 to 100 percent approval ratings from the three most influential Christian right advocacy groups. They include Senate Majority Leader Bill Frist, Assistant Majority Leader Mitch McConnell, Conference Chair Rick Santorum of Pennsylvania, Policy Chair Jon Kyl of Arizona, House Speaker Dennis Hastert and Majority Whip Roy Blunt. The only Democrat to score 100 percent with the Christian coalition was Sen. Zell Miller of Georgia, who recently quoted from the biblical book of Amos on the Senate floor: "The days will come, sayeth the Lord God, that I will send a famine in the land." He seemed to be relishing the thought.

And why not? There's a constituency for it. A 2002 Time-CNN poll found that 59 percent of Americans believe that the prophecies found in the book of Revelations are going to come true. Nearly one-quarter think the Bible predicted the 9/11 attacks. Drive across the country with your radio tuned to the more than 1,600 Christian radio stations, or in the motel turn on some of the 250 Christian TV stations, and you can hear some of this end-time gospel. And you will come to understand why people under the spell of such potent prophecies cannot be expected, as Grist puts it, "to worry about the environment. Why care about the earth, when the droughts, floods, famine and pestilence brought by ecological collapse are signs of the apocalypse foretold in the Bible? Why care about global climate change when you and yours will be rescued in the rapture? And why care about converting from oil to solar when the same God who performed the miracle of the loaves and fishes can whip up a few billion barrels of light crude with a word?"

Because these people believe that until Christ does return, the Lord will provide. One of their texts is a high school history book, "America's Providential History." You'll find there these words: "The secular or socialist has a limited-resource mentality and views the world as a pie ... that needs to be cut up so everyone can get a piece." However, "[t]he Christian knows that the potential in God is unlimited and that there is no shortage of resources in God's earth ... while many secularists view the world as overpopulated, Christians know that God has made the earth sufficiently large with plenty of resources to accommodate all of the people."

No wonder Karl Rove goes around the White House whistling that militant hymn, "Onward Christian Soldiers." He turned out millions of the foot soldiers on Nov. 2, including many who have made the apocalypse a powerful driving force in modern American politics.

etc.

----------------------------

How sad.
 

Harvey

Administrator<br>Elite Member
Oct 9, 1999
35,052
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Bill Moyers brings a fine sense of literacy to the sanity he publishes.
 

Perknose

Forum Director & Omnipotent Overlord
Forum Director
Oct 9, 1999
46,271
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Originally posted by: Harvey
Bill Moyers brings a fine sense of literacy to the sanity he publishes.
What Harvey said. :thumbsup:

 

Gen Stonewall

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
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This article is sickly sardonic. Moyers certainly has effectively fanned out his hatred in this piece.

Bill Moyers was host until recently of the weekly public affairs series "NOW with Bill Moyers" on PBS. This article is adapted from AlterNet, where it first appeared. The text is taken from Moyers' remarks upon receiving the Global Environmental Citizen Award from the Center for Health and the Global Environment at Harvard Medical School.

What?! :shocked: Is this man really brazen enough to make these remarks while accepting an award? :shocked:
 

Gen Stonewall

Senior member
Aug 8, 2001
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I've never met one Christian who has said or implied that it's his or her duty to hasten the Second Coming. (Such a concept isn't biblical.) Does this sort of people present an epidemic, or is Moyers just trying a way to justify his hatred?

 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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Perhaps science and information has advanced too rapidly for some people. Feeling left behind and bewildered, they are comforted by embracing old myths that require no knowledge or thought, just blind belief.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Perhaps science and information has advanced too rapidly for some people. Feeling left behind and bewildered, they are comforted by embracing old myths that require no knowledge or thought, just blind belief.
Perhaps some lack the humility required to acknowledge they might not have it all figured out, don't have all the answers.
 

Infohawk

Lifer
Jan 12, 2002
17,844
1
0
Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
I've never met one Christian who has said or implied that it's his or her duty to hasten the Second Coming. (Such a concept isn't biblical.) Does this sort of people present an epidemic, or is Moyers just trying a way to justify his hatred?

Why don't you stop paying so much to Moyers's feelings and address his arguments. You're the one who sounds like a hater (see how useful that was?)
 

cwjerome

Diamond Member
Sep 30, 2004
4,346
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It's good to see Moyers out of his shell the past year or so... instead of hiding and pretending for the previous 25 years. It's taken him a long time to be intellectually honest, even if he does shed any sense of rationality and embrace the bizarro world of cliched Leftist scat.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Perhaps science and information has advanced too rapidly for some people. Feeling left behind and bewildered, they are comforted by embracing old myths that require no knowledge or thought, just blind belief.
Perhaps some lack the humility required to acknowledge they might not have it all figured out, don't have all the answers.
None of us have all the answers, of course, but neither does that mean we have to believe the first fantastical line of BS we hear either. The 1/3 of Americans that take the bible literally have stopped looking for answers. They've stopped asking "Why?" and instead have sold-out, settling for a set of beliefs pre-packaged and designed to appeal to man's need to fill the holes in his knowledge base. There's no longer any intellectual curiousity there.

It's quite sad, really.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
None of us have all the answers, of course, but neither does that mean we have to believe the first fantastical line of BS we hear either. The 1/3 of Americans that take the bible literally have stopped looking for answers. They've stopped asking "Why?" and instead have sold-out, settling for a set of beliefs pre-packaged and designed to appeal to man's need to fill the holes in his knowledge base. There's no longer any intellectual curiousity there.

It's quite sad, really.
They've sold out? You claim to know that they're wrong - how can you be so sure? While I don't agree with them, neither can I fault them for believing as they do. In my experience, people mock what they don't understand. You can say that education is a cure for religion, or that fundamentalism is driven by laziness (as you say, they stopped looking for answers), but the opposite is true in my experience.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
None of us have all the answers, of course, but neither does that mean we have to believe the first fantastical line of BS we hear either. The 1/3 of Americans that take the bible literally have stopped looking for answers. They've stopped asking "Why?" and instead have sold-out, settling for a set of beliefs pre-packaged and designed to appeal to man's need to fill the holes in his knowledge base. There's no longer any intellectual curiousity there.

It's quite sad, really.
They've sold out? You claim to know that they're wrong - how can you be so sure? While I don't agree with them, neither can I fault them for believing as they do. In my experience, people mock what they don't understand. You can say that education is a cure for religion, or that fundamentalism is driven by laziness (as you say, they stopped looking for answers), but the opposite is true in my experience.
I don't know that they're wrong, of course, yet they've clearly stopped seeking wisdom or answers . . .
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
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81
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know that they're wrong, of course, yet they've clearly stopped seeking wisdom or answers . . .
Most of them spend more time praying/doing religion-related activities than anyone else I know. They read the bible daily at least. Are you more active in searching for 'answers' than that? I'm certainly not.
 

shrumpage

Golden Member
Mar 1, 2004
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Originally posted by: Infohawk
Originally posted by: Gen Stonewall
I've never met one Christian who has said or implied that it's his or her duty to hasten the Second Coming. (Such a concept isn't biblical.) Does this sort of people present an epidemic, or is Moyers just trying a way to justify his hatred?

Why don't you stop paying so much to Moyers's feelings and address his arguments. You're the one who sounds like a hater (see how useful that was?)

Hate isn't the word i'd use, bigoted seems more fitting -

Beltway elites snickered. The press corps didn't know what he was talking about. But James Watt was serious. So were his compatriots out across the country. They are the people who believe the Bible is literally true - one-third of the American electorate, if a recent Gallup poll is accurate. In this past election several million good and decent citizens went to the polls believing in the rapture index.

Because 1/3 of americans believe in the literal interuptation of the Bible, he equates this to all Christians working to the end goal of fostering armagedon. um ok - i'm really lost in that link.

I've met many Christians, from various different flavors, and none of them have suscribed to this.

Read it and you will see how millions of Christian fundamentalists may believe that environmental destruction is not only to be disregarded but actually welcomed - even hastened - as a sign of the coming apocalypse.

One of the themes Christ teachs on is being a good steward. Being a good steward of doesn't mean destroying what you have, but taking care of it and growing it. ONce again, i have never met a Christian who believes in actively perusing the destruction of the enviroment - expecially to bring on the 2nd coming.

Quite frankly, if Moyers was so worried about all this Christian fundelmentalist following the Bible, litereally,why doesn't he apply that same logic to other aspects of the Bible, like the one above - instead of focusing on Revaltion?

As Grist makes clear, we're not talking about a handful of fringe lawmakers who hold or are beholden to these beliefs. Nearly half the U.S. Congress before the recent election - 231 legislators in total and more since the election - are backed by the religious right.

Once again - he lumps all Christians togather, slaps 'em with a label. Apparently legilators can't have varing religous beleifs.


I noticed that a lot of people on this board automatically assume that Christians blindly believe what they do, because of what they read in a book. A lot of people are Christian from what they have seen, what they have seen in other people, and what they have experianced themselves. To assume that people accept Christinity solely on blind faith is ignorant.
 

wirelessenabled

Platinum Member
Feb 5, 2001
2,190
41
91
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know that they're wrong, of course, yet they've clearly stopped seeking wisdom or answers . . .
Most of them spend more time praying/doing religion-related activities than anyone else I know. They read the bible daily at least. Are you more active in searching for 'answers' than that? I'm certainly not.


Are all the answers in the Bible? All development of human knowledge stopped 3000 years ago or whenever the Bible was written? I certainly have a problem with that.
 

jackschmittusa

Diamond Member
Apr 16, 2003
5,972
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And a lot of them read the Bible as though they are cramming for the test, memorizing all the answers. Science and technology have advanced to the point where they are today because people never quit questioning even what they were already told to be true. Remember a time in history when the Church could "prove" by biblical reference that the Earth was the center of the universe? No further questions need be asked, and it was a crime to even do so. Religion has had to say "oops!" quite a number of times. Think it's all fixed now and nobody needs to think anymore?

My personal opinion? I am absolutely baffled that so many people can except an explaination for virtually everything with no evidence, no proof, no experimental results, etc.. IMHO, there is no more reason to believe in god than there is to believe in unicorns or leprechans.

*note: I do not claim to know for a fact that there is no god. I just think it highly unlikely and consider religion to by a waste of time, resources, and talent.
 

DealMonkey

Lifer
Nov 25, 2001
13,136
1
0
Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know that they're wrong, of course, yet they've clearly stopped seeking wisdom or answers . . .
Most of them spend more time praying/doing religion-related activities than anyone else I know. They read the bible daily at least. Are you more active in searching for 'answers' than that? I'm certainly not.

The only answers are in the bible? That seems like a very Christian-centric view of things.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: wirelessenabled
Are all the answers in the Bible? All development of human knowledge stopped 3000 years ago or whenever the Bible was written? I certainly have a problem with that.
Did I say all the answers are in the Bible? Did I say all development of human knowledge stopped when the Bible was written? I certainly have a problem with your multiple strawmen in a two-line post.
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
The only answers are in the bible? That seems like a very Christian-centric view of things.
Once again, did I SAY all the answers were in the Bible? Nope, not even close. If I thought they were, I might read it every day instead of all these textbooks. You stated previously that fundamentalist Christians had stopped looking for answers. My point was that, in my experience, they exhaust more energy looking for those answers than anyone else. You can disagree with their methodology, but I'm highly critical of your criticism of their work ethic.
 

Brackis

Banned
Nov 14, 2004
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A man is what he thinks about all day long, and if all people do is look at an ancient text and at the sky for "guidance", they will miss not only the wonderful earth that some greater power has given us, but be at the mercy of those who want to control it.
 

gutharius

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: jackschmittusa
Perhaps science and information has advanced too rapidly for some people. Feeling left behind and bewildered, they are comforted by embracing old myths that require no knowledge or thought, just blind belief.

I Agree. Many feel overwhelmed. Such purges have occcured after technological revolutions came on too fast.

There is a great purge coming do not doubt this. Many will be lead into this purge in the pursuit of God and many will find they were lead astray by blind belief. Tho they will not be to blame for this, only for what acts were committed in pursuit of this.

You cannot pursue that which you already have in your heart.
 

Train

Lifer
Jun 22, 2000
13,863
68
91
www.bing.com
Since when is the US a religious country?

90% of americans dont evn go to church.

But I guess it makes a good boogeyman to scare people

and a good excuse for the dems defeat.

March on liberals, march on.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Apparently, none of you thinks that any Christian has actually thought about his/her beliefs. You claim that there is no proof of the existence of a god and belittle anyone who would believe in one. You pretend to be enlightened thinkers while ignoring the obvious and mock those who take note.
 

gutharius

Golden Member
May 26, 2004
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Originally posted by: CycloWizard
Originally posted by: DealMonkey
I don't know that they're wrong, of course, yet they've clearly stopped seeking wisdom or answers . . .
Most of them spend more time praying/doing religion-related activities than anyone else I know. They read the bible daily at least. Are you more active in searching for 'answers' than that? I'm certainly not.

Part of searching for an answer is to look for that answer in more than one source of informational reference. Anything else is a blind answer and is self defeating.
 

Brackis

Banned
Nov 14, 2004
2,863
0
0
Originally posted by: Train
Since when is the US a religious country?

90% of americans dont evn go to church.

But I guess it makes a good boogeyman to scare people

and a good excuse for the dems defeat.

March on liberals, march on.

You are so ignorant that you can't even recognize that your foolish conservatism exists in the minds of god fearing Christians nationwide.
The south is overrun with stupid people who believe in "good moral values", such as invading countries and sending american soliders to their deaths.
 

CycloWizard

Lifer
Sep 10, 2001
12,348
1
81
Originally posted by: gutharius
Part of searching for an answer is to look for that answer in more than one source of informational reference. Anything else is a blind answer and is self defeating.
Maybe they already found the answer? Once I solve a math problem, I don't typically go hunting for other possible solutions. Have you found any answers yet? How hard are you looking?
 
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