OOPS!! "a very prominent member of al Qaeda served as an officer in Saddam Hussein's militia"

[conjur]

http://www.upi.com/view.cfm?StoryID=20040620-050700-2315r

John F. Lehman, a Reagan-era GOP defense official told NBC's "Meet the Press" that documents captured in Iraq "indicate that there is at least one officer of Saddam's Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of al Qaida."

"Shakir is a pretty common name," said terrorism analyst and author Peter Bergen, "and even if the two names refer to the same person, there might be a number of other explanations. Perhaps al-Qaida had penetrated Saddam's security apparatus."

Hmm...I seem to recall a couple of stories involving finding documents post-invasion that turned up to be nothing. And, we all know about those forged documents the British had.

 

[DeeKnow]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
OOPS!! "a very prominent member of al Qaeda served as an officer in Saddam Hussein's militia"

hey BrainSurgeon .... a very prominent member of the Bush administration served as an officer in Halliburton.....

 

[Painman]

What if the alleged Al-Qaeda operative in Saddam's militia was a ploy to undermine Saddam? An Al-Qaeda plant? This seems plausible to me. Especially since Baathists and Islamic fundamentalists are ideologically at 180 degrees to each other, and one of Al Qaeda's stated intentions is to Islamicize the Middle East, though this is yet another point that seems to get lost amidst all the noise. If this is the case, then we have aided Al Qaeda's infiltration of Iraq immesurably.

 

[Siddhartha]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
TEXT: US GRAND JURY INDICTMENT AGAINST USAMA BIN LADEN

from 1998 - Clinton's Justice Department Issues Grand Jury indictment of OBL...

Al Qaeda, Bin Laden's international
terrorist group, forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
Sudan and with the government of Iran and with its associated group
Hezballah to "work together against their perceived common enemies in
the West, particularly the United States."


Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.

You need to understand that no matter what Bush does or doesn't do, the Liberals/Democrats will rail against him.

If he hadn't attack Iraq, they would be criticising him for not doing the responsible thing to protect us. As it is, he did attack Iraq, so they have to criticise that.

Your uber-horny Clinton certainly believed Al Qaeda had an omminous relationship going on with Iraq...
Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afganista, Sudan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia....these countries are ALL going to have to change or be changed for the U.S. to be safe from terrorist threat. I am willing to debate about which one should have been chosen to be next after Afganistan, but i don't see how your going to defeat terrorism without eventually addressing all of these countries.

Oh yes, i understand that Democrats don't feel terrorism can be defeated, just like communism couldn't be defeated either.

Why do Bush supporters insist on categorizing any criticism of Bush as Bush bashing or hating? Is it their way of diverting attention away from Bush's foreign and domestic policy screw ups?

 

[Strk]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
well the only "true" communist countries that remain are N. Korea and Cuba...i wasn't aware that their population has 2 billion....

i will concede that communism still exists in those two countries, and that the complete defeat of communism (the replacement of those goverments with some oter form of governance) is pending.

China has a system that does not qualify as communist (as defined by Marx, Engels, and Lenin). It has morphed into a communist - capitalist hybrid, perhaps you haven't read the newspaper recently and don't know this.

North Korea and Cuba are no more communist than any other country that has been said to be "communist".

The fact is, there has yet to be a country that has followed much of any of what Marx and Engel wrote. They all seem to handle the initial authoritarian bits to come to power, but it ends there.

 

[Kipper]

Originally posted by: Strk

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
well the only "true" communist countries that remain are N. Korea and Cuba...i wasn't aware that their population has 2 billion....

i will concede that communism still exists in those two countries, and that the complete defeat of communism (the replacement of those goverments with some oter form of governance) is pending.

China has a system that does not qualify as communist (as defined by Marx, Engels, and Lenin). It has morphed into a communist - capitalist hybrid, perhaps you haven't read the newspaper recently and don't know this.

North Korea and Cuba are no more communist than any other country that has been said to be "communist".

The fact is, there has yet to be a country that has followed much of any of what Marx and Engel wrote. They all seem to handle the initial authoritarian bits to come to power, but it ends there.

Thank you for exonerating one of the most brilliant (albeit perhaps wacky) philosophers I've ever read. This country feels so threatened by Marx that it seems to discount ANYTHING Marx...although he identified many social trends still present in our country today.

 

[heartsurgeon]

lets see..

lenin
stalin
Mao
Castro
Kim Jong Il
Enver Hoca
Ceuceasceu

how many millions dead?

the final common pathway of Marxism or communism is a totalitarian state with
no accountability, and concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few "elite"

how many "examples" or"attempts" at marxist doctrine before someone admits it just wrongheaded..

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
lets see..

lenin
stalin
Mao
Castro
Kim Jong Il
Enver Hoca
Ceuceasceu

how many millions dead?

the final common pathway of Marxism or communism is a totalitarian state with
no accountability, and concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few "elite"

how many "examples" or"attempts" at marxist doctrine before someone admits it just wrongheaded..

Scary.

You just described the Bush administration.

 

[GrGr]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
lets see..

lenin
stalin
Mao
Castro
Kim Jong Il
Enver Hoca
Ceuceasceu

how many millions dead?

the final common pathway of Marxism or communism is a totalitarian state with
no accountability, and concentration of power and wealth in the hands of a few "elite"

how many "examples" or"attempts" at marxist doctrine before someone admits it just wrongheaded..

Scary.

You just described the Bush administration.

heartsurgeon finally looked in the mirror

 

[SuperTool]

Cons still fishing for a reason to go to war they went to more than a year ago? Fascinating

 

[umbrella39]

I am waiting for the: "There is a turkey sandwich in Iraq with ties to Al-Quida". Man, you Bushies must be running out of straws to grasp at.

 

[NesuD]

Originally posted by: wkabel23

Originally posted by: heartsurgeon
TEXT: US GRAND JURY INDICTMENT AGAINST USAMA BIN LADEN

from 1998 - Clinton's Justice Department Issues Grand Jury indictment of OBL...

Al Qaeda, Bin Laden's international
terrorist group, forged alliances with the National Islamic Front in
Sudan and with the government of Iran and with its associated group
Hezballah to "work together against their perceived common enemies in
the West, particularly the United States."


Additionally, the indictment states that Al Qaeda reached an agreement
with Iraq not to work against the regime of Saddam Hussein and that
they would work cooperatively with Iraq, particularly in weapons
development.

You need to understand that no matter what Bush does or doesn't do, the Liberals/Democrats will rail against him.

If he hadn't attack Iraq, they would be criticising him for not doing the responsible thing to protect us. As it is, he did attack Iraq, so they have to criticise that.

Your uber-horny Clinton certainly believed Al Qaeda had an omminous relationship going on with Iraq...
Iraq, Iran, Syria, Afganista, Sudan, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia....these countries are ALL going to have to change or be changed for the U.S. to be safe from terrorist threat. I am willing to debate about which one should have been chosen to be next after Afganistan, but i don't see how your going to defeat terrorism without eventually addressing all of these countries.

Oh yes, i understand that Democrats don't feel terrorism can be defeated, just like communism couldn't be defeated either.

Didn't the 9/11 commission say something about this the other day? Like there wasn't a link between 9/11 and Iraq?

Right no link between 9-11 and iraq but the media seems to want to equate that as meaning no links to Bin Laden which is not at all what they said.

 

[DealMonkey]

Oooops! I guess your crap story about a prominent member of AQ serving as an officer in Saddam's militia is full of holes. Oh well, back to the drawing board HS. See if you can come up w/ something better next time...

Al Qaeda Link to Iraqi Militia Doubted
U.S. intelligence official disputes a claim that a terror operative served in Fedayeen Saddam.

By Greg Miller, Times Staff Writer

WASHINGTON ? A U.S. intelligence official expressed skepticism Monday that a member of Al Qaeda had served as an officer in Saddam Hussein's Fedayeen militia, contradicting a claim made the day before by a member of the commission investigating the Sept. 11 attacks.

The intelligence official said the CIA had investigated the matter this year after documents recovered in Iraq listed an officer in the Fedayeen Saddam militia whose name was similar to that of a known Al Qaeda operative.

The agency determined that the militia member and the terrorist operative were not the same person, the official said. "We think that it is not the same guy," said the intelligence official, who spoke on condition of anonymity.

The CIA's conclusion undercuts an assertion made by John F. Lehman, a Republican member of the Sept. 11 commission, who said in a television interview Sunday that new intelligence indicated that "there is at least one officer of Saddam's Fedayeen, a lieutenant colonel, who was a very prominent member of Al Qaeda."

Lehman made the comment on NBC's "Meet the Press." He could not be reached for comment late Monday.

Lehman's claim has become the latest point of friction in the ongoing debate over the extent of Al Qaeda's ties to the former Iraqi government. The Bush administration frequently cited Iraq's alleged ties to Al Qaeda while building the case for war.

The Sept. 11 commission issued a staff report last week concluding that although there were contacts between Hussein's regime and Al Qaeda during the 1990s, there was no evidence that there was a collaborative relationship between Baghdad and the terrorist network responsible for the Sept. 11 attacks.

The report prompted fresh questions about the credibility of the administration's prewar claims, and the White House has staunchly refused to retreat. After the commission's report was released, Vice President Dick Cheney said "the evidence is overwhelming" that the Iraqi government had a relationship with Al Qaeda and suggested that the commission had not seen all the available information.

Lehman sought to defend Cheney and others during his NBC appearance Sunday, and he cited the claim that an Al Qaeda member was part of the Fedayeen militia as an example of how the intelligence community's understanding of the ties between Al Qaeda and Iraq was still evolving.

"There's new intelligence, and this has come since our staff report has been written," Lehman said. "New intelligence is coming in steadily from the interrogations in Guantanamo and Iraq, and from captured documents."

The U.S. military operates a prison at its naval base in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba.

The intelligence official said Lehman appeared to be referring to documents that included rosters of the Fedayeen Saddam. The militia melted away after the fall of Baghdad, but many believe that its former members continue to lead insurgent attacks on American forces.

One name on the list closely resembled that of Ahmad Hikmat Shakir Azzawi, an Iraqi who escorted two Sept. 11 hijackers to a high-level Al Qaeda meeting in Kuala Lumpur, Malaysia, in January 2000.

A CIA investigation this year "concluded that the individuals listed in captured Iraqi documents as members of the Fedayeen are not the same as the Iraqi who facilitated the arrival of a Sept. 11 hijacker in Kuala Lumpur," the U.S. intelligence official said.

He noted that "names such as Ahmad, Hikmat and Shakir are pretty common in Arabic" and that the order in which they appear on the roster differs from the name of the Al Qaeda figure. The official said he could not provide any more information.

 

[jpeyton]

pWned!

 

[conjur]

http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia223863038jun22,0,6059318.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

The claim that the Iraqi officer and al-Qaida figure are the same first appeared in a Wall Street Journal editorial on May 27. A similar account was then published in the June 7 edition of the Weekly Standard, which reported that the link was discovered by an analyst working for a controversial Pentagon intelligence unit under Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy.

And, we all know Feith works for Wolfowitz who was the one that demanded unvetted intelligence reports from the CIA.

 

[arsbanned]

Heartsurgeon said:

now i am going to wait and see how this plays out..
possible massive amounts of cold, dead crow will be dished out to all liberals and Mssr. Kerry to eat...time will tell.

isn't it great when a plan comes together!!

never misunderestimate W

Nor HS, apparently. :roll:

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia223863038jun22,0,6059318.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

The claim that the Iraqi officer and al-Qaida figure are the same first appeared in a Wall Street Journal editorial on May 27. A similar account was then published in the June 7 edition of the Weekly Standard, which reported that the link was discovered by an analyst working for a controversial Pentagon intelligence unit under Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy.

And, we all know Feith works for Wolfowitz who was the one that demanded unvetted intelligence reports from the CIA.

Did you guys happen to catch Stephen F. Hayes on the Daily Show last night? Stewart basically crapped all over his book, The Connection : How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America because it was based almost entirely on the unvetted intel contained in Feith's memo. Man, those guys over at the Weekly Standard have some kind of journalistic integrity don't they? FYI: Hayes is a columnist at the Standard...

Pathetic.

 

[Phokus]

Don't bother guys, as usual, heartsurgeon will run away like a little pvssy after getting pwnd.

 

[conjur]

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia223863038jun22,0,6059318.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

The claim that the Iraqi officer and al-Qaida figure are the same first appeared in a Wall Street Journal editorial on May 27. A similar account was then published in the June 7 edition of the Weekly Standard, which reported that the link was discovered by an analyst working for a controversial Pentagon intelligence unit under Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy.

And, we all know Feith works for Wolfowitz who was the one that demanded unvetted intelligence reports from the CIA.

Did you guys happen to catch Stephen F. Hayes on the Daily Show last night? Stewart basically crapped all over his book, The Connection : How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America because it was based almost entirely on the unvetted intel contained in Feith's memo. Man, those guys over at the Weekly Standard have some kind of journalistic integrity don't they? FYI: Hayes is a columnist at the Standard...

Pathetic.

Nope...I don't have Comedy Central anymore. I just have basic cable. Is there a transcript or video?

 

[DealMonkey]

Originally posted by: conjur
[Nope...I don't have Comedy Central anymore. I just have basic cable. Is there a transcript or video?

Conjur, I checked the official DS site, and nothing. A few Google searches have come up empty too. I guess you can poke around at the DS site yourself and see if you find something. Linky

It was almost uncomfortable watching the interview, as John came as close to calling Hayes a liar as he possibly could. Hayes himself looked REALLY uncomfortable. It was pathetic really. Hayes just sat there taking it like "Oh yeah, I know that my book is based on a discredited Feith memo. Whatever. I can't do anything about it now except keep promoting it and hope some idiots on the right actually buy into this load of crap..."

 

[Gaard]

Can someone explain to me why heartsurgeon hasn't responded?

 

[Czar]

Originally posted by: conjur

Originally posted by: DealMonkey

Originally posted by: conjur
http://www.newsday.com/news/nationworld/nation/ny-uscia223863038jun22,0,6059318.story?coll=ny-nationalnews-headlines

The claim that the Iraqi officer and al-Qaida figure are the same first appeared in a Wall Street Journal editorial on May 27. A similar account was then published in the June 7 edition of the Weekly Standard, which reported that the link was discovered by an analyst working for a controversial Pentagon intelligence unit under Douglas Feith, undersecretary of defense for policy.

And, we all know Feith works for Wolfowitz who was the one that demanded unvetted intelligence reports from the CIA.

Did you guys happen to catch Stephen F. Hayes on the Daily Show last night? Stewart basically crapped all over his book, The Connection : How al Qaeda's Collaboration with Saddam Hussein Has Endangered America because it was based almost entirely on the unvetted intel contained in Feith's memo. Man, those guys over at the Weekly Standard have some kind of journalistic integrity don't they? FYI: Hayes is a columnist at the Standard...

Pathetic.

Nope...I don't have Comedy Central anymore. I just have basic cable. Is there a transcript or video?

*cough*torrent*cought*

 

[viivo]

Originally posted by: Gaard
Can someone explain to me why heartsurgeon hasn't responded?

But one of many reasons.

 

[Phokus]

Bump. Heartsurgeon, i challenge you to actually respond to some of these rebuttles instead of doing your usual 'hit and run' threads like the wussy boy you are.

 

[NeoV]

forget about HS, he doesn't have anything to respond with.......I want to hear Cheney's response....remember, he "has info the commission doesn't have".