Open the flood gates - Trump vows to "destroy" limits on churches political activity

Dec 10, 2005
24,432
7,355
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https://nyti.ms/2k3Yhv2
President Trump vowed Thursday to overturn a law restricting political speech by churches, a potentially huge victory for the religious right and a gesture to his political base.

Mr. Trump said his administration would “totally destroy” the Johnson Amendment, which prohibits churches from engaging in political activity at the risk of losing their tax-exempt status.

Just what we need, more money in politics, especially groups with extra-large coffers that will just be used to push more of Christian Taliban on us all.
 

Grooveriding

Diamond Member
Dec 25, 2008
9,108
1,260
126
He knows the fundamentalist Christians helped elect him. Those nutters think a piece of shit like him was sent by jesus, which says more about them than him. A lot of what he's been doing has been pandering to the suckers to get them out there for him again in four years.
 
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piasabird

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
17,168
60
91
Churches are made up of people all of whom have freedom of speech just like other people. Put your big boy pants on. A church is just a group of people that follow a specific phylosophy for life. Not only that but they all vote also.
 
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
Churches are made up of people all of whom have freedom of speech just like other people. Put your big boy pants on. A church is just a group of people that follow a specific phylosophy for life. Not only that but they all vote also.
The people in the church have their right to individual speech. The Church, as a tax exempt religious organization, is free as well to get involved in politics if they surrender that tax exempt status.
 

1prophet

Diamond Member
Aug 17, 2005
5,313
534
126
Churches are made up of people all of whom have freedom of speech just like other people. Put your big boy pants on. A church is just a group of people that follow a specific phylosophy for life. Not only that but they all vote also.


As long as they don't mind giving up their tax exemptions, then we will see what the foundation of their specific philosophy for life is made of.
 
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Thebobo

Lifer
Jun 19, 2006
18,592
7,673
136
If he continues like this he could start a civil war.
Churches are made up of people all of whom have freedom of speech just like other people. Put your big boy pants on. A church is just a group of people that follow a specific phylosophy for life. Not only that but they all vote also.

If they take away tax exemption for religious organizations then I'm ok with it.
 

senseamp

Lifer
Feb 5, 2006
35,787
6,195
126
Will backfire on churches big time if they are seen as tools of the state as in Russia.
 

UNCjigga

Lifer
Dec 12, 2000
24,842
9,088
136
Great, maybe now we can get organized agnostics and organized atheists into their own, tax-exempt, megapowerful "church" (something other than Scientology!)
 
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HomerJS

Lifer
Feb 6, 2002
36,289
28,144
136
Great, maybe now we can get organized agnostics and organized atheists into their own, tax-exempt, megapowerful "church" (something other than Scientology!)
Trump will do like he did for the ban, carve out an exception for Christians
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
The people in the church have their right to individual speech. The Church, as a tax exempt religious organization, is free as well to get involved in politics if they surrender that tax exempt status.

You need to include black churches that people like Hillary and Obama have used for generations as mouthpieces. Never understood "You can't do it but come to our meeting and discuss our support for ourselves!" Nope.

IMO all churches need to keep themselves out of politics and the state have a hands off regarding religion. It works both ways.
 
Reactions: pcgeek11 and KMFJD
Jan 25, 2011
16,634
8,778
146
You need to include black churches that people like Hillary and Obama have used for generations as mouthpieces. Never understood "You can't do it but come to our meeting and discuss our support for ourselves!" Nope.

IMO all churches need to keep themselves out of politics and the state have a hands off regarding religion. It works both ways.
You realize the President attended a national prayer breakfast this morning right? No one is complaining about that either. It's when the church itself becomes activist and, yes, that should translate to ALL religious organizations.
 
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Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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You realize the President attended a national prayer breakfast this morning right? No one is complaining about that either. It's when the church itself becomes activist and, yes, that should translate to ALL religious organizations.

Having a politician in a pulpit is activism because the church is endorsing at that point. Naturally that applies to all churches. Now if Obama wanted to meet with churches for a breakfast to discuss things I've no problem. Once he sets foot on the stage to address the public and the congregation? Nope.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,863
34,809
136
Trump manages to quote Jefferson then promise to let religious institutions once again politic from the pulpits and use lobbyists to directly influence government while remaining tax exempt, in the same paragraph.

It was the great Thomas Jefferson who said, the God who gave us life, gave us liberty. Jefferson asked, can the liberties of a nation be secure when we have removed a conviction that these liberties are the gift of God. Among those freedoms is the right to worship according to our own beliefs. That is why I will get rid of and totally destroy the Johnson Amendment and allow our representatives of faith to speak freely and without fear of retribution. I will do that, remember.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-breakfast/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.ecfa709f23c9
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
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Trump manages to quote Jefferson then promise to let religious institutions once again politic from the pulpits and use lobbyists to directly influence government while remaining tax exempt, in the same paragraph.



https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...r-breakfast/?tid=sm_tw&utm_term=.ecfa709f23c9

Did a bit of looking into the background of taxes, politics and churches and it was LBJ who was responsible in bring it about. I'd be worried that Trump could simply reverse Johnson's order, but in fact it was sponsored legislation that created our present way of doing things.

Trump therefore has to do this by legislative means and Republicans are more likely to go with this as a group, it only needs a few defectors to block. I didn't see it noted but a position was almost blocked with the help of only two Republicans. One more and that would have ended that nominee.

In short this promise may not be kept.
 

superstition

Platinum Member
Feb 2, 2008
2,219
221
101
Religion is irrationality.

Religious people are either irrational themselves or predators who exploit the true believers' irrationality.

It's disgusting that, in 2017, we're still so dominated by ridiculous fantasy material.

So much for human progress.
 

Jhhnn

IN MEMORIAM
Nov 11, 1999
62,365
14,681
136
Did a bit of looking into the background of taxes, politics and churches and it was LBJ who was responsible in bring it about. I'd be worried that Trump could simply reverse Johnson's order, but in fact it was sponsored legislation that created our present way of doing things.

Trump therefore has to do this by legislative means and Republicans are more likely to go with this as a group, it only needs a few defectors to block. I didn't see it noted but a position was almost blocked with the help of only two Republicans. One more and that would have ended that nominee.

In short this promise may not be kept.

Please. If the IRS & the DoJ won't enforce the law then Falwell & Co can say anything they want from the pulpit on national TV & get away with it.

It's like marijuana legalization.
 

K1052

Elite Member
Aug 21, 2003
46,863
34,809
136
Did a bit of looking into the background of taxes, politics and churches and it was LBJ who was responsible in bring it about. I'd be worried that Trump could simply reverse Johnson's order, but in fact it was sponsored legislation that created our present way of doing things.

Trump therefore has to do this by legislative means and Republicans are more likely to go with this as a group, it only needs a few defectors to block. I didn't see it noted but a position was almost blocked with the help of only two Republicans. One more and that would have ended that nominee.

In short this promise may not be kept.

Yes he needs Congress to do it. Just thought the irony was irresistible.
 

Hayabusa Rider

Admin Emeritus & Elite Member
Jan 26, 2000
50,879
4,266
126
Please. If the IRS & the DoJ won't enforce the law then Falwell & Co can say anything they want from the pulpit on national TV & get away with it.

It's like marijuana legalization.

The DOJ isn't involved in civil suits and there would be those aplenty.
 

raildogg

Lifer
Aug 24, 2004
12,884
569
126
These churches are the farthest thing from God or Jesus as one can get.

There is no God in these churches. The only thing they have are corrupt men trying to con people. But then again, so is Trump. He's another self claimed Christian who is acting the opposite of what a man of God acts.
 

pauldun170

Diamond Member
Sep 26, 2011
9,139
5,074
136
(from my accidental duplicate

You start of with the Davos family pushing charter schools - Why worry about pesky Constitutional amendments when you can funnel federal money to private schools that have more leeway to teach arab folk tales or crazy nonsense dreamed up by idiotic religious lawyers (creationism) instead of that evil secular "Science".

The whole Falwell Jr Liberty college nonsense

Now this....


Trump said he’ll ‘totally destroy’ the Johnson Amendment.
.....
What the Johnson Amendment is:
It’s named for Lyndon B. Johnson, who introduced it in the Senate in 1954, nine years before he became president. It bans all tax-exempt nonprofits — which includes churches and other houses of worship, as well as charities — from “directly or indirectly” participating in any political candidate’s campaign.

What Trump has against it: Trump presents this ban on participating in politicking as a restriction on the freedom of faith groups to put their religion in action, if their religion calls on them to campaign for a candidate. At Thursday’s prayer breakfast, Trump said that his reason for opposing the Johnson Amendment is that it impinges on the American “right to worship according to our own beliefs” — apparently describing campaign participation as a form of worship.

This is Trump’s first time bringing up the subject as president, but it’s a vow he has made several times before.
https://www.washingtonpost.com/news...nd-why-do-people-care/?utm_term=.67e50e113626


From 2016
https://www.theatlantic.com/politic...-trying-to-put-more-money-in-politics/493823/


Additional background
The restriction was championed by LBJ in 1954 when Johnson was a U.S. senator running for re-election. A conservative nonprofit group that wanted to limit the treaty-making ability of the president produced material that called for electing his primary opponent, millionaire rancher-oilman Dudley Dougherty, and defeating Johnson. There was no church involved.

Johnson, then Democratic minority leader, responded by introducing an amendment to Section 501(c)(3) of the federal tax code dealing with tax-exempt charitable organizations, including groups organized and operated exclusively for religious, charitable, scientific, literacy and educational purposes, or to prevent cruelty to children or animals. It said, in effect, that if you want to be absolved from paying taxes, you couldn't be involved in partisan politics.
...
"The logical argument favoring such an amendment is that those corporations qualifying for the section 501(c)(3) tax subsidy should not be permitted to directly or indirectly use that subsidy to support candidates for office," said Michael Hone in the Case Western article.
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...-trump-correct-lyndon-johnson-passed-legisla/
 
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