Opening a NYC lemonade stand

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I've often made the claim that over regulation is damaging to this country. It might be the EPA or DHS or FDA, it doesn't really matter which bureaucracy, they all have problems and they all should be severely curtailed. This article shows why this growth of regulations is damaging and in this particular case ridiculous.

It made me want to try to jump through the legal hoops required to open a simple lemonade stand in New York City. Here's some of what one has to do:

-- Register as sole proprietor with the County Clerk's Office (must be done in person)

-- Apply to the IRS for an Employer Identification Number.

-- Complete 15-hr Food Protection Course!

-- After the course, register for an exam that takes 1 hour. You must score 70 percent to pass. (Sample question: "What toxins are associated with the puffer fish?") If you pass, allow three to five weeks for delivery of Food Protection Certificate.

-- Register for sales tax Certificate of Authority

-- Apply for a Temporary Food Service Establishment Permit. Must bring copies of the previous documents and completed forms to the Consumer Affairs Licensing Center.

Then, at least 21 days before opening your establishment, you must
arrange for an inspection with the Health Department's Bureau of Food Safety and Community Sanitation. It takes about three weeks to get your appointment. If you pass, you can set up a business once you:

-- Buy a portable fire extinguisher from a company certified by the New York Fire Department and set up a contract for waste disposal.

-- We couldn't finish the process. Had we been able to schedule our health inspection and open my stand legally, it would have taken us 65 days.

I sold lemonade anyway. I looked dumb hawking it with my giant fire extinguisher on the table.

Tourists told me they couldn't believe that I had to get "all those permits."

http://www.realclearpolitics.com/articles/2012/02/24/i_tried_to_open_a_lemonade_stand_113235.html
 

EagleKeeper

Discussion Club Moderator<br>Elite Member
Staff member
Oct 30, 2000
42,591
5
0
All of that is to protect the public from you.
 

waggy

No Lifer
Dec 14, 2000
68,145
10
81
I seem to recall when a little girl was fined for it in NYC i think last year they made a aception for lemonade stands by kids.

Now john stossel? an adult opening a business? yeah i understand why he hast to.
 

trenchfoot

Lifer
Aug 5, 2000
14,682
7,181
136
If there weren't any of those numerous unscrupulous "businessmen" and businesses intent on scamming, poisoning, bilking, short changing, fraudulently preying upon and generally exploiting the public's trust and gullibility to make a profit at the expense of the public's health and welfare, then we wouldn't need any laws and regulations to keep these crooks at bay, would we?

"Buyer Beware" is a poor excuse for allowing crooks, from those ultra-rich banksters and corporate robber barons to those hawkers selling knock-offs from their car trunks an easier time to do what they do by killing those very laws and reg's that prevent them from committing the crimes those laws and reg's were created in response to the threats these crooks represent.

Just look at what happened during the Bush/Cheney years when Bush and Cheney turned a blind eye to all of the violations their business buddies perpetrated against the public. In comparison to what actual damage took place and the very few who got convicted for their crimes against the gov't (the people), the incontrovetible proof therein speaks to why regulations and laws are absolutely necessary to protect the public.

We as consumers are responsible for the choices we make on the product and services we pay for. However, there is only so much we can do as consumers that will protect us from the likes of those that would exploit any and all types of "deregulating" that occurs when businesses want to squeeze more profit out of us at the expense of the air we breathe, the water we drink, the monies we get cheated out of and of the daily grand theft that occurs at all levels of gov't.

I would rather pay more in tax to protect my interests as a consumer, investor and citizen than pay more just to line the pockets of businesses who have no problem with cheating the consumer and the gov't whose duty is to protect the general welfare of the public it represents.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I seem to recall when a little girl was fined for it in NYC i think last year they made a aception for lemonade stands by kids.

Now john stossel? an adult opening a business? yeah i understand why he hast to.

The only exception is if the police "look the other way", which I heartily endorse in cases like lemonade stands or cookies sold by kids, or even the special brownies that used to be sold on Fisherman's wharf in SF
 

dmcowen674

No Lifer
Oct 13, 1999
54,894
47
91
www.alienbabeltech.com
If there weren't any of those numerous unscrupulous "businessmen" and businesses intent on scamming, poisoning, bilking, short changing, fraudulently preying upon and generally exploiting the public's trust and gullibility to make a profit at the expense of the public's health and welfare, then we wouldn't need any laws and regulations to keep these crooks at bay, would we?

Bingo

Republicans would rather have unregulated business like China where they can make every dollar possible while killing the population with poisons in the food as fillers.

They are the ultimate in biting the hand that feeds you.
 

cybrsage

Lifer
Nov 17, 2011
13,021
0
0
It depends on where the stand is located. If you put it near restaurants, you are taking away their business.
 

Rainsford

Lifer
Apr 25, 2001
17,515
0
0
FFS it's a damn lemonade stand, usually run by kids, get the fuck over yourselves.

Nothing in that article suggested the steps listed applied to kids running a lemonade stand on the sidewalk. None of those seemed like totally unreasonable steps if you're going to open an actual business serving food/beverages. The connection to kids' lemonade stands was just heavily implied to spark exactly the kind of "outrage" the article successfully produced.

And more generally, I can't be the only one getting sick to death of generic complaints about regulations. Yes, it would be easier to open/run a business if you didn't have to follow any rules. That's neither an argument against having rules nor a specific proposal to improve the rules.

I also think this focus on corner cases is pretty silly. Based on the fact that Stossel thinks all those steps are necessary to open a lemonade stand, he wants to, presumably, do away with them for actual businesses as well. I don't think anyone would object to a lemonade stand run by kids getting a pass on restaurant regulations. That's not really an argument against government regulations.
 

LegendKiller

Lifer
Mar 5, 2001
18,256
68
86
The kids who were shut down were in Westchester county, not NYC.

As far as opening an NYC stand, I see absolutely nothing wrong with any of that. There needs to be some oversight and much of that isn't too onerous.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
Midway Georgia kids busted for a lemonade stand.
http://www.policebrutality.info/2011/07/police-busted-childrens-lemonade-stand.html

Portland Oregon kids busted for a lemonade stand.
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/bizarre&id=7596434

Pennsylvania kids shut down for lemonade stand.
http://www.nbcphiladelphia.com/news/local/Lemonade-Stand-Busted.html

Wisconsin kids shut down, then allowed to re-open
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2011/07/20/cops-bust-lemonade-stand-_n_905072.html

kids bake sale busted in NY
http://www.theblaze.com/stories/busted-ny-politician-calls-cops-on-kids-unlicensed-bake-sale/

Lots more, of course all these regulations are vital and necessary to the running of this country. How about you just pull that self righteous silly stick out of your ass and let a little common sense control regulation?
 

Matt1970

Lifer
Mar 19, 2007
12,320
3
0
I normally agree with John Stossel but here are some things to consider. It is unwise for anyone to open any kind of food related service without some kind of training and those requirements are rather loose compared to some industries. If you want someone to serve you food without knowing how to handle, prepare or store that type of food than knock yourself out.

If you just want to start up a retail or similar business all you need to do is go register your business name with your local county clerk. You either look through a book of registered names or through a computer data base to make sure you don&#8217;t have the same name as another business. In some places you can do it all online. Once registered you are issued a sales tax number and you are good to go. You do not need a EIN unless you hire employees but it is a good idea to have one.
 

PeshakJang

Platinum Member
Mar 17, 2010
2,276
0
0
Bingo

Republicans would rather have unregulated business like China where they can make every dollar possible while killing the population with poisons in the food as fillers.

They are the ultimate in biting the hand that feeds you.

Dave cites china as an unregulated economy. Not too many words in the English language convey how dumb he is, so I'll just leave it as is.
 

monovillage

Diamond Member
Jul 3, 2008
8,444
1
0
I normally agree with John Stossel but here are some things to consider. It is unwise for anyone to open any kind of food related service without some kind of training and those requirements are rather loose compared to some industries. If you want someone to serve you food without knowing how to handle, prepare or store that type of food than knock yourself out.

If you just want to start up a retail or similar business all you need to do is go register your business name with your local county clerk. You either look through a book of registered names or through a computer data base to make sure you don&#8217;t have the same name as another business. In some places you can do it all online. Once registered you are issued a sales tax number and you are good to go. You do not need a EIN unless you hire employees but it is a good idea to have one.

Maybe i'm just old enough that I remember when lots of kids had lemonade stands. When kids got a bucket and a sponge and went house to house asking to wash cars for money. When kids, and I mean kids, mowed lawns, pulled weeds, had paper routes, cleaned houses and did all sorts of things to get a little cash. It wasn't regulated against, the cops didn't come by and write up tickets, you didn't get a summons from the Feds about child labor laws. It was just what kids did to earn a little money.
The day is probably past that kids have the freedom to work for a little cash and learn the lessons about hard work and getting ahead, and I think this country is the poorer for it.
 

her209

No Lifer
Oct 11, 2000
56,352
11
0
Maybe i'm just old enough that I remember when lots of kids had lemonade stands. When kids got a bucket and a sponge and went house to house asking to wash cars for money. When kids, and I mean kids, mowed lawns, pulled weeds, had paper routes, cleaned houses and did all sorts of things to get a little cash. It wasn't regulated against, the cops didn't come by and write up tickets, you didn't get a summons from the Feds about child labor laws. It was just what kids did to earn a little money.
The day is probably past that kids have the freedom to work for a little cash and learn the lessons about hard work and getting ahead, and I think this country is the poorer for it.
People probably didn't sue other people over the dumbest shit either. Times have changed brah.
 

Nemesis 1

Lifer
Dec 30, 2006
11,366
2
0
Bingo

Republicans would rather have unregulated business like China where they can make every dollar possible while killing the population with poisons in the food as fillers.

They are the ultimate in biting the hand that feeds you.

DO you eat fresh veg. and fruit in winter months. You should find out what countries we import from are spraying on these crops . You need to get out of the house if your able to .
 

BoberFett

Lifer
Oct 9, 1999
37,563
9
81
If there weren't any of those numerous unscrupulous "businessmen" and businesses intent on scamming, poisoning, bilking, short changing, fraudulently preying upon and generally exploiting the public's trust and gullibility to make a profit at the expense of the public's health and welfare, then we wouldn't need any laws and regulations to keep these crooks at bay, would we?

So to catch the few, let's make things damn near impossible for the vast majority. Good plan. No wonder this country is run by big corporations, you've intentionally made it impossible for the little guy.
 
Nov 30, 2006
15,456
389
121
&#8220;You will never understand bureaucracies until you understand that for bureaucrats procedure is everything and outcomes are nothing.&#8221; - Thomas Sowell
 

PokerGuy

Lifer
Jul 2, 2005
13,650
201
101
It was just what kids did to earn a little money. The day is probably past that kids have the freedom to work for a little cash and learn the lessons about hard work and getting ahead, and I think this country is the poorer for it.

We can't have kids learning that kind of nonsense. We need to teach them that the way you get ahead is having government regulate and do everything for you, make sure you have no initiative at all, the gubmint will provide everything you need.
 

Kntx

Platinum Member
Dec 11, 2000
2,270
0
71
And yet you can't take 3 steps in NYC without running into a food cart.
 
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