Opinion from the experienced users

[Fuzija]

I recently bought an upgrade to my pc which was AMD64 x2 4400, 2x1GB OCZ Dual Channel PC3200 XTC Edition and A8N32 SLI Deluxe mobo

Everything is running smoothly but have a wierd problem

Well, let me start from begining

I put everything in and installed win and all the drivers, etc and installed a speedfan to monitor my temps. It was a bit high up around 45-47 for cpu on idle, so I remembered before with some mobos I had a problem where a bios flash would help, so I did an upgrade of bios to the newest one 1303 dos bios version from ASUS official website. After doing that my temp sensors started showing a decent temp which could be expected from x2 averaging 33 idle and up to 50 on stress, e.g. playing battlefield 2 and such.

Well, after all that was done, I was quite happy my x2 was running cool on Zalman CNPS9500 LED so I decided to give it a bit of oc. The most I could get out of it on 1.450 volts was 2.6 that would boot into windows, but I was not satisfied with it, I knew this baby could do more on this mobo and with this ram.

So, I saught a help from some of you guys here on Anandtech and a guy recommended to me that I should gradually crack into the core buy slowly rasiing the speed and doing some prime time along with it for a period of time until processor gets used to this mobo and all that. So I tried undevolting it and going for 2.5 ghz but it would only give me no errors in prime if I left it at 1.425 which is default volts for this cpu. Anything under and prime would give me error like this:

FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.

That was with 2 prime instances opened, one for each core, so I left it at default volts and all other settiings which gave me initial 2.2 ghz so I figured I do soome test with prime at default speeds and clock.

I ran two instances of prime, one for each core and I monitored it for a half an hour and no errors appeared. I was a bit happier. Saying that, I went to bad leaving prime running overnight. I did a torture test on both cores with small FFTs settings as Zebo suggested.

So I woke up in the morning I turned on my monitor and saw that my computer froze completely, nothing was working, it was on but win had just froze everything, mouse, ketboard, nothing was working so I did a restart.

Looked at the prime logs and there were no error and such. The tests ran for 5 hours and the computer froze on both cores on the last thing from log:

Self-test 14K passed!
[Sun Sep 17 09:57:15 2006]
Self-test 16K passed!

Self-test 14K passed!
[Sun Sep 17 09:54:33 2006]
Self-test 16K passed!

It did not report any errors and yet, my pc was frozen.

Anywho, that was not he only thing that bothered me. After a restart I noticed something else wrong. My idle temps have gone up and now it is iddling at 41-44 celsius instead of nice and cool 32-34.

To mention, temperature during prime was about 56-58 while running two primes for each core.

So folks, that would be my problem of the day.

Anyone have any suggestions, insights? I would greatly appreciate any input towards this problem.

Thanks in advance

 

[LittleNemoNES]

use a memory divider to make your ram run @ 200 mhz or less. If it still fails, then you know its your CPU. If it DOESN'T, then you need to find the max for your ram.

 

[BoboKatt]

I can't stress enough and it's worth repeating what was just said before my post about the RAM and getting rid of that as a possible failure before worrying about the CPU. For almost 2 years I was bouncing back and forth with my X2 3800+ running it from 2200 to 2500Mhz and always trying to figure out the correct voltages and what was making it crash if I could not get it 100% stable.

Anyhow in the long run it turned out it was simply the RAM. I could attribute ALL my crashes bang on to my RAM even running a small amount over its slated speed. By doing exactly what the previous poster said, i.e.. dropping the divider and mem timings you eliminate completely the RAM issue (well as long as there is nothing wrong with the RAM to start with). I ram Memtest just to make sure even moved to just one DIMM or 2 X 12 instead of 2 X 1024 to make it easier on the board if it would have issues with larger DIMMs.

Then used the tools that are sticky'ed on this forum and realized I could get higher CPU speeds with LESS voltage. Before I would keep thinking the CPU or the SB or Chipset needed more juice... up, up, up... until it seemed stable when all along it was a RAM issue (to a limit of course with the CPU and mobo).

Again use process of elimination to single out one thing at a time. Personally I am still amazed as to how much your RAM just craps it all out with one single dinky change to its settings and how much it can hold you back. I am not a skilled or even pretend to be knowledgeable about Oc?ing just my experimentation over the last few years.

 

[Fuzija]

anyhints or tips on how I should deal with my ram? I've got OCZ Platinum PC3200 XTC edition 2x1GB sticks

I am more concerned now why did the pc froze after only 5 hours of prime on default settings?

 

[Capt Caveman]

What is your ram voltage set at? I suggest manually setting the ram voltage and not letting the motherboard auto-setting it.

 

[Fuzija]

it is on Auto setting atm, and rated settings are from 2.6 and upwards by .50 volts when on manual. What is the safe voltage for this ram?

 

[Fuzija]

I see you have similar RAM except it is gold not platinum and same cpu and mobo. Did you do any overclocking with it?

 

[Capt Caveman]

My OCZ ram is rated at DDR500 but it's slightly overclocked to 255mhz at 2.75v 3-4-3-7 timings. Everything set manually. Your ram uses different chips, so I don't know how they overclock. To eliminate them from equation, set things manually and use a memory divider when you oc.

 

[Fuzija]

I would use the mem divider if I knew how, when trying to read, my head hurts

 

[betasub]

I'm sure some over-the-counter medication will help your head. Please read the stickied OC threads and you will learn find how to use the BIOS to change your memory speed (divider). Do not just leave settings as AUTO unless you know what the default (AUTO) setting does.

 

[videopho]

Granted mine is a x2 3800+ but I had the exact same thing happened to me the first week I had it. While running Prime95's torture tests, the rig froze sometime during the night and required a hard powered reboot and its log showed no error. Be on the safe side, ever since I've kept mine running at 2.4ghz with very nice temps, 38c idle and 42c load.
If I had to take an educated guess, it could have been the rams that might be the culprit. I'd suggest you to run Memtest to rule out the ram completely. If need be you may bump the ram voltage a little.

 

[myocardia]

Okay, Fujiza, for starters, you're 4400's stock voltage is 1.3.5v, just like mine, and all other X2 4400's. And when building a new system, the last thing you do is overclock, not the first. You have no idea if your processor, motherboard, RAM, or anything else in the system is even good yet. Start out by running Orthos with every thing at stock settings, including the vcore (though you may have to bump the vcore to 1.375v, since nearly all motherboards undervolt the cpu).

Once you've run Orthos overnight (or at least 5 or 6 hours), and it's completely stable at stock speeds, then you'll want to do a few hours of gaming, to make sure your video card is stable, and isn't gonna overheat. Once that's finished, and you've installed all of your software, then you're ready to start overclocking, although I would recommend that you reinstall Windows before going any farther, since I'm sure you left the cpu at "default" voltage while installing Windows. Almost all motherboards only give X2 cpu's 1.30v, and when you factor in the undervolting (what we call vdroop), then having a bad Windows install is quite likely.

So, now you've reinstalled Windows, with the correct voltages, and have installed all of your software, what now? Well, now you're ready to follow Zebo's guide: link to overclocking an A64, while keeping this in mind-- you're RAM doesn't really like more than 2.70-2.75v of vdimm. And there isn't a chance in hell that it's gonna do much more than 208-210 Mhz, with 2.60v.

So, give your RAM 2.70v of vdimm, keep your cpu at an 11x multiplier and 1.40v of vcore, put your HTT multi to 4x, and start out by raising your RAM timings to 2.5-3-3-7. I have the same RAM IC's that you have, in my 2x1 GB PQI Turbo, and mine will do 2.5-3-2-5 @225 @2.70v, but I didn't find that out by going that high with those timings to begin with. With 2.7v, and 2.5-3-3-7 timings, your RAM won't start holding you back until you get up around 235-240 Mhz on the RAM and HTT. Your processor (vcore) should be what's holding you back, below that.

And lastly, you need to reseat your Zalman. Your heatsink is much better than the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 that I have on my 4400 atm, but yet your temps are way higher. You did use thermal compound, between the heatsink and the processor, didn't you? If so, then I would start over, although if they're 10°C or more lower, once your vcore is at 1.35-1.375v (while running Orhos, not at idle), then it's probably okay.

 

[videopho]

"And lastly, you need to reseat your Zalman. Your heatsink is much better than the Arctic Cooling Freezer 64 that I have on my 4400 atm, but yet your temps are way higher. You did use thermal compound, between the heatsink and the processor, didn't you? If so, then I would start over, although if they're 10°C or more lower, once your vcore is at 1.35-1.375v (while running Orhos, not at idle), then it's probably okay. "

I concur. I'd recommend to use Zalman Thermal Compound which even lower the temps by at least 3-4degree Celsius from the thermal paste (that came with my AC Freezer 64, originally).

 

[Fuzija]

Thanks for inputs ppl. I have already stressed my cpu with about probably at least 50 hours of BF2. I have used zalman thermal grease that came with my 9500 LED. I have reseated it again today, but temps still remain the same. What was puzzling is that the cpu temp in bios was not matching the temp readings in windows, eihter with speedfan or everest, but now, they match exactly, the same temperature reading is in bios as it is in windows after running prime for 5 hours. I am talking averaging 40 in indle or low usage mode.

I have read zebo's guide and well ahead in isolating. Already tested my max htt/fsb which was 396 and my memory with 2.5.4.3.7.1T with 2.90 volts and the result was 235. I ran test 5 and 6 in memtest and it passed on 235 and on 240 it failed. So 235 is I guess my max mem setting.

Now, I am going to test max chip capability and will report in some time what that result is. Hopefully I am doing this somewhat right.

My GPU is idlling at 45 and about 50-52 while playing bf2. It is way better with zalman vf-700cu than with asus stock cooler which gave me about 56-58 idle and 65-66 load temp on gpu.

Will report back with the last test on max chip and I will probably need some consolidation after that.

Thanks for helping guys. I want to learn this once and for all so I can helop someone else like you guys helped me

 

[myocardia]

Fujiza, my RAM will do almost 250 Mhz, at 3-4-3-7 or 3-4-3-8 timings. Just because you've found your max for 2.5-3-4-7, doesn't mean your RAM is maxed out.

And, I also thought of something. Your Zalman 9500 did horribly in the reviews I've read on it, with the fan set to minimum speed. With it on max, it did about as well as a Scythe Ninja, and better than a TT Big Typhoon. So, crank up your 9500's fan speed, man. Good luck. And we'd welcome having you come back to answer newbie's questions. All it really takes to learn is to do alot of reading, on this and a few other good forums.

 

[Fuzija]

UPDATE

I just checked my Max Chip according to Zebo's guide and it came out to be FSB 225 @ 2.47 hgz, anything higher would result in crashing Prime95 as soon as I would start it. I tested 225 @ 2.47 with two instaces of prime95 for each core. The error Prime95 gave me when I vent over 2.47 was:

[Tue Sep 19 20:58:20 2006]
FATAL ERROR: Rounding was 0.5, expected less than 0.4
Hardware failure detected, consult stress.txt file.

225 @ 2.47 passed Prime95 on both cores for 5 minutes (it said 5 minutes was enough for now)

I did crank up my 9500 to full it is @ 2500rpms cant go any faster.

Now I am concerned about this speed of my cpu, seems really low is this all I will be able to get out of it?

I did exactly what Zebo said. Multi to max which is 11, CPU Volts to 1.50 since it is 90mm chip, Mem to Auto except frequency which I set at 100mhz

 

[imported_inspire]

You might try running your memory at 2T and manually locking in the stock timings (for good measure).

I know this is late, but in the original post you made, if you had noted the time on the toolbar of the computer after it had crashed, before you rebooted it, you'd have known how long Prime actually ran before your box locked up.

 

[Fuzija]

I know when I started it and I took out the last entry from the log and concluded it ran for 5 hours approximately. It froze around 9 am or so I woke up around 11, so it was frozen for about 2 hours before I rebooted it

 

[myocardia]

Originally posted by: Fuzija
I know when I started it and I took out the last entry from the log and concluded it ran for 5 hours approximately. It froze around 9 am or so I woke up around 11, so it was frozen for about 2 hours before I rebooted it

What is your HTT multiplier set at? That was supposed to be set at 3x, according to Zebo's guide. I've never heard of a 4400 only hitting 2475 Mhz, although overclocking always has been, and always will be, a crapshoot. Anyway, if it wasn't your HTT multi, my guess would be your motherboard.

 

[Fuzija]

Well, in case I missed something, this is what Zebo said about testing max chip:

2. Max Chip capable
- Set multiplier to it's maxium
-Set vcore to 1.6 -1.65 for 130nm chips, 1.50-1.55 for 90nm chips
-Set mem to SPD and 100, this will take memory out of equation
-starting with HTT 200 raise in about 5Mhz increments up to boards max found earlier or until you start failing PRIME95 which will probably happen first..only give it 5 minutes max, that's good enough for now.
-At the point it starts failing within that 5 min time period, back down 5%, (CPU MHZ * 0.95), thats your max CPU speed, now test prime again at 95% for 12 hour for stable.
Prime 95 Link http://www.mersenne.org/freesoft.htm

It did not say HTT multi at 3x or I am so stupid to miss it

Maybe there was a talk about it further in the discussion, but heck, 37 pages is a lot to read

Anyways, will test with 3x multi, although there are two options in the bios, one setu to auto and one set to 5x, so I figure to take off the auto and set it to 3x, will see

Reporting back in a few

 

[Capt Caveman]

If you want to test how high your ram will overclock, you need to take the cpu out of the equation by lower the multiplier.

Also, based on your combination of motherboard and cpu, using different multipliers may allow you to overclock more than others. Note, b/c of your ram, you'll more than likely need to run memory dividers when using a lower cpu multi.


I've never tried to find a max oc but have been able to run my X2 4400+ 2.8ghz without any issues. Currently, I run my system 24/7 at 2.55ghz w/ 255fsb, cpu multi @ 10, 1.3875v cpu. Temps low 30c at idle and mid 40c at load.

Good luck!

 

[Fuzija]

Well, I lowered the ht multi to 3x but still no luck, and now it would even give me prime95 error when going to 2.475 mhz

I am clueless on what to do, obviously something is wrong. My prime load temps are around 60

I have noticed one thing though, the prime always fails first on core0 rather than on core1

Am I looking at the faulty cpu here or what? Because this is ridicilous since some ppl managed to get their 4400 @ 3.0 ghz and I cannot even move it from 2.2 without prime errors

I know not every cpu can overclock that high but can overclock somewhat more than default without errors

 

[Fuzija]

How to test if CPU is faulty?

 

[Munky]

Maybe you just dont have a good OC'ing cpu. My Opty165 does 2.4ghz at stock volts, 2.5 at 1.425v, but will not do 2.58 no matter what. That's just the limit of the cpu. Also, I once built a rig with a A64 3200 Venice that would not run stable with anything more than 200mhz over stock.

 

[Fuzija]

Then I'll probably sell this one and get a new one

Should I get the same cpu or something better for oc? Something in range of US250$-US$300?