opinions on tithe?

[TheNinja]

It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

 

[Whitecloak]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation
Choices always were a problem for you.
What you need is someone strong to guide you.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow,
what you need is someone strong to use you...
Like me.

If you want to get your soul to heaven*,
trust in me.
Don't judge or question.
You are broken now,
but faith can heal you.
Just do everything I tell you to do.
Deaf and blind and dumb and born to follow.
Let me lay my holy hand upon you.

My God's will
becomes me.
When he speaks out,
he speaks through me.
He has needs
like I do.
We both want
to rape you.

Jesus Christ, why don't you come save my life.
Open my eyes and blind me with your light
and your lies.



*you'd better fill the fvcking collection plate.

LOL

 

[pyonir]

Originally posted by: xxAgentCowxx
I luuuuuuuuuv big tithes

LMAO

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Staley8
To be honest. It IS in effect.

That is not universally accepted. I'm sorry. While many Evangelical and Fundamental Christian churches keep the tithe as an unspoken "rule", there are numerous others where it never even comes up. I was raised in a Uniter Methodist church. In my 22 years there the issue of tithe has never once come up. To the best of my knowledge, it has not once come up at my grandparents' Lutheran church either. It depends largely on the denomination as to whether the idea of tithing is considered doctrinal.

Originally posted by: Staley8
P.S. This has been a very civilized religion debate thus far.....is this ATOT or did I type in the wrong addy?

Sadly, the post immediately after yours confirmed that this is indeed ATOT.

ZV

I'll agree with you on both points. I realized after I posted that there are many branches and denominations of Christianity and they may differ on exactly whether or not the tithe is still an exact requirement. I would say that it is still a requirement, you say it isn't, however to those reading that think someone has to be wrong, you must realize that both of us can be Christians but believe in slightly different interpretations of some old testament laws

Second point....yup, it didn't take too long for someone to come in and threadcrap....and a Lifer too yet.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

Blasphemy does not bother me.

Number one, it's not my place to worry about it.
Number two, this is not a religious forum (thank God actually, it allows a freer discussion) so if we started cracking down on what is blasphemy to Christians, we would have to disallow anything that is blasphemous to anyone. No more beef-eating references since that is blasphemy to strict Hindus, etc. It's a bad precedent to set.

As for the trolling, if that's the worst he has to say about us, then I consider that a great compliment.

ZV

 

[TommyVercetti]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Jackhammerz

Originally posted by: Astaroth33
Tithe as in the church collection basket?

That's what I understood the question to be about. I see nothing wrong with tithes. It's only 10%. That's the least thing you can do to give back to God and the church. Read the bible.

Does God really want your cash? Please correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Jesus himself have some kind of problem with churches/temples and money?

Yes God REQUIRES 1/10th (or a tithe) of everything you earn. Back in the Old Testament the people would tithe 1/10th of their goods such as fruit or meat. Some of this would go to feed the staff at the temple and some of it would be burned as a gift to God. God wants our cash b/c our cash keeps the church going, feeds the poor, pays missionaries, etc. Jesus only had a problem with the churches/temples and the money b/c the people running it were either skimming off the top, or buying/selling in the temple at unreasonable rates (I assume you are referring to the story where Jesus b/c angry with the collectors/sellers and flipped over the tables and drove them out of the temple)

Actually I think one other reason God requires is so that money remains in circulation and that people don't horde money. Money hording sounds rather ridiculous in the consumer oriented Western Culture, but in a lot of Eastern culturea, hording (or saving) almost all the money you make is a way of life. You give 1/10th to Church, church pays other people to buy things, and the cycle continues.

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: Staley8
I would say that it is still a requirement, you say it isn't, however to those reading that think someone has to be wrong, you must realize that both of us can be Christians but believe in slightly different interpretations of some old testament laws.

I wish more Christians realised this, not just those who do not believe.

ZV

 

[Feldenak]

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

It's just what CorpRec does...after some time here I've been able to tune it out.

 

[So]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

Blasphemy does not bother me.

Number one, it's not my place to worry about it.
Number two, this is not a religious forum (thank God actually, it allows a freer discussion) so if we started cracking down on what is blasphemy to Christians, we would have to disallow anything that is blasphemous to anyone. No more beef-eating references since that is blasphemy to strict Hindus, etc. It's a bad precedent to set.

As for the trolling, if that's the worst he has to say about us, then I consider that a great compliment.

ZV

Which is why the rules about homosexual jokes were a bad precedent.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

It just makes me sad how your precious religion specifically tells people to condemn homosexuals.

It's also not blasphemy if I don't believe in your god.

 

[Kadarin]

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Staley8

Originally posted by: Astaroth33

Originally posted by: Staley8
Yes God REQUIRES 1/10th (or a tithe) of everything you earn. Back in the Old Testament the people would tithe 1/10th of their goods such as fruit or meat. Some of this would go to feed the staff at the temple and some of it would be burned as a gift to God. God wants our cash b/c our cash keeps the church going, feeds the poor, pays missionaries, etc. Jesus only had a problem with the churches/temples and the money b/c the people running it were either skimming off the top, or buying/selling in the temple at unreasonable rates (I assume you are referring to the story where Jesus b/c angry with the collectors/sellers and flipped over the tables and drove them out of the temple)

There is a contradiction here. What point is there in burning money or usable stuff as a "gift to God"? I would think God (assuming, of course that there is a God) would vastly prefer people not burn the stuff as "gifts", but instead put it to good use.

The reason is that that food/offering belonged to God and nobody else could have it. The Bible many times states that the burnt offerings were an aroma pleasing to God. A burnt offereing also represented the cleansing of sin. For example a person would have to take a bull, sheep, or dove (depending on their wealth) and it MUST be an umblemished one. At this point they would lay their hands on the animal, in a sense transferring your sin to the animal. Then the animal would be killed and the priests would cut it up and burn it. The reason we don't do it now is that Jesus was the ultimate sacrifice for us so we are no longer required to have burnt offerings or other sacrifices. However the tithing rule is widely believed to still be in effect. Many churches won't come right out and say "you must give 10% of gross" but it tends to be implied even nowadays.

It is either in effect or it is not. Either the New Covenant supercedes the Old Covenant, or it does not. The fact that there is even ANY uncertainty on this rather important point very strongly implies that the Church (and perhaps other entities) is using invalidated and superceded rules as listed in the Old Testament for their own purposes. Does it not?

To be honest. It IS in effect. The problem is that nowadays people are so sensative about issues (especially regarding money), and people don't like to be told what to do. Therefore the church has to be a little more politically correct many times b/c they don't want to offend everyone in the church (or visitors) and have that be a deterrant for becoming a Christian. So they won't come out directly and say it all the time, but if you are around a church long enough it will be said whether you like it or not. And finally the church will say it is required from God and the church will expect it but the church will not check up on each person (note: they church will NOT take your W2 and compared it to your giving) b/c that is between the individual and God.

P.S. This has been a very civilized religion debate thus far.....is this ATOT or did I type in the wrong addy?

I am questioning the authority that states that this is in effect, namely, that the Old Covenant has been superceded by the New Covenant. Because you say something is so does not make it so. Even if your local priest says that it is so does not make it so, not if you believe the Bible is the ultimate arbiter of authority here.

This applies not just to the concept of the tithe, but of anything that is explicitly stated in the Old Covenant. What do you do and what are you supposed to think when a priest or other person supposedly in authority refers to some rule as listed in the Old Covenant, which has been superceded? Are priests and others in supposed authority allowed by God to pick and choose which of His rules apply? Is this what is meant by "different denominations have different interpretations"?

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

It just makes me sad how your precious religion specifically tells people to condemn homosexuals.

It's also not blasphemy if I don't believe in your god.

Well, it could be blasphemy if it's true that God exists. But God's existance cannot be proven (if He could be proven, then there's no point to Faith and Trust, but that's a whole different argument), so I'll agree with you that it could, conceivable be considered non-blasphemous. (Blasphemy is something that I believe really ought to be left between the person and God otherwise the church just gets bogged down in squabbles over just what is considered blasphemy and that's not the point of the church at all.)

As for the condemnation of homosexual actions (because Christianity is explicit that while the sin should be hated, the sinner must be loved), calling it a sin does not mean that it is necessary to believe that homosexuals will go to hell. Everyone sins. Period. And no sin is worse than any other. I cannot see viable support for the position that any and all homosexuals are damned coming from an educated reading of the Bible. If we condemn them on the basis of a single sin, then we condemn ourselves on the basis of the sins we have also committed. Do I believe that their lifestyle should be encouraged? No. But I certainly do not believe in condemning any person because of a single sin.

ZV

 

[Pliablemoose]

I can never keep it straight, it the church tithe before or after the government tithe is taken out?

Either way, I have mixed feelings about it, I'm pretty satisified with how our church spends it's money, and give them a good bit of $, but not 10% pre tax.

 

[Platypus]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

Originally posted by: Staley8
It kind of makes me sad how pure blasphemy and obvious trolling like Corporate Recreation just posted can be allowed but no racial or homosexual joke or putdown can be used.

It just makes me sad how your precious religion specifically tells people to condemn homosexuals.

It's also not blasphemy if I don't believe in your god.

Well, it could be blasphemy if it's true that God exists. But God's existance cannot be proven (if He could be proven, then there's no point to Faith and Trust, but that's a whole different argument), so I'll agree with you that it could, conceivable be considered non-blasphemous. (Blasphemy is something that I believe really ought to be left between the person and God otherwise the church just gets bogged down in squabbles over just what is considered blasphemy and that's not the point of the church at all.)

As for the condemnation of homosexual actions (because Christianity is explicit that while the sin should be hated, the sinner must be loved), calling it a sin does not mean that it is necessary to believe that homosexuals will go to hell. Everyone sins. Period. And no sin is worse than any other. I cannot see viable support for the position that any and all homosexuals are damned coming from an educated reading of the Bible. If we condemn them on the basis of a single sin, then we condemn ourselves on the basis of the sins we have also committed. Do I believe that their lifestyle should be encouraged? No. But I certainly do not believe in condemning any person because of a single sin.

ZV

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

"Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD." Jeremiah 6:15.

Oh, I see what you're saying

 

[Schadenfroh]

sure, 10% of your income should go to a church. if your not religious, it can always be a tax write off and portions of it will go to feeding the poor and stuff

 

[Zenmervolt]

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

"Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD." Jeremiah 6:15.

Oh, I see what you're saying

The first and last quote are from the Old Testament. That law has been invalidated, so those mean nothing.

The quote from Romans only says that such things are "worthy of death". A full reading of Romans reveals that everyone is worthy of death. We are saved through God's love despite the fact that the only just reward for our actions is death. To take everything at face value is asinine.

ZV

 

[StageLeft]

If you don't believe in God or the church naturally you'll think it's lunacy. If you do believe wholeheartedly in God and the church 10% is the absolute least you can do. I know quite a few people who give significant portions to the church. Remember that many christians see this life as only a stepping stone to heaven, so what's 10% of your income to help with that goal? Churches do more good than throwing it at bars or payments on a car, remember. You could mock giving 10% to a big rich church, but would be less likely to mock the intentions of somebody throwing 10% into a charity.

 

[FoBoT]

not all churches misuse the money they collect, some help a lot of people with that $

to each his own, freedom of choice! that's what you want!

we each live our lives with free will

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Considering that my tithe goes to support a CASL House (Clean And Sober Living), a local charity, and missionaries all over the world, I have no problem with tithing to my church. However, giving exactly 10% as your tithe and giving it directly to the church is nothing but legalism, which Christ taught against. If God tells you to take that money and go pay for tanks of gas for people at the local gas station on some Tuesday afternoon, then you'd better do it instead of dropping it in the tithe basket at church.

 

[TheNinja]

Originally posted by: Zenmervolt

Originally posted by: CorporateRecreation

"If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them." Leviticus 20:13.

"Who knowing the judgment of God, that they which commit such things are worthy of death, not only do the same, but have pleasure in them that do them." Romans 1:32.

"Were they ashamed when they had committed abomination? nay, they were not at all ashamed, neither could they blush: therefore they shall fall among them that fall: at the time that I visit them they shall be cast down, saith the LORD." Jeremiah 6:15.

Oh, I see what you're saying

The first and last quote are from the Old Testament. That law has been invalidated, so those mean nothing.

The quote from Romans only says that such things are "worthy of death". A full reading of Romans reveals that everyone is worthy of death. We are saved through God's love despite the fact that the only just reward for our actions is death. To take everything at face value is asinine.

ZV

Zenmervolt makes a good point here. However I find CorpRec's debating tactics laughable at best. First he posts some ridiculous song (I think), then to back it up claims that he does not believe in god therefore the song is not blashphemy. Finally he tries to make a point about homosexuals by quoting the very scripture that he claims he does not believe in, not too mention he is taking it out of context and just grabbing snippets of information to try and give a weak case even a little credibility. I give up and am going to bed now. Thumbs up to all who give to their church or at least other charities, and bigger thumbs up to those who can afford to give 10% or more. It is easier said than done that's for sure.

 

[compuwiz1]

Only cults, with rediculous principles practice this. Some of the largest, claim that nobody who works for the church get's paid. Frankly, I think that's a huge lie! A church that has millions of members, takes 10%, and as I understand it, will avidly collect, if you don't pay, is on the take! I'm sorry, but someone is getting rich. I'm glad I'm not that stupid. My relationship with the God of my understanding, only requires me to live and treat others a certain way. D'ats good enough for me. I do make contributions, because I understand there is work to be done and help needed. I don't buy the tithe rules. I know people who stay poor, when that extra 10% might do some real good for them...but to that they are blind.

 

[NikPreviousAcct]

Originally posted by: compuwiz1
Only cults, with rediculous principles practice this. Some of the largest, claim that nobody who works for the church get's paid. Frankly, I think that's a huge lie! A church that has millions of members, takes 10%, and as I understand it, will avidly collect, if you don't pay, is on the take! I'm sorry, but someone is getting rich. I'm glad I'm not that stupid. My relationship with the God of my understanding, only requires me to live and treat others a certain way. D'ats good enough for me. I do make contributions, because I understand there is work to be done and help needed. I don't buy the tithe rules. I know people who stay poor, when that extra 10% might do some real good for them...but to that they are blind.

Read my post.

 

[Ameesh]

Originally posted by: So
God needs our money. Without money, god can't feed the poor, nor can he keep his churches standing.

Why is that? i thought God is all powerful?

 

[masterxfob]

CorporateRecreation = kid that's looking for a fight, just ignore him.

Zenmervolt, i completely agree with you on your stance on homosexuals. i believe that there are degrees of sin, and homosexuality is a sin much akin to premarital sex. that said, no man is worthy or holy enough to condemn another man, except for Jesus

anyhow, i'm a student working part time, so i don't make much money at all, but i do offer a tithe. it may not be 10%, but i generally try to leave at least 5%. the pastor needs to support his family and any extra money generally goes to missions funding. i am part of a mission church, in where we try to support as many people wanting to devote their lives to Jesus as a missionary.


i don't offer a tithe because it is required, but out of thanks to Jesus for what he has done in my life. what i give, Jesus returns several times over in many different ways.