Opteron 148 or 165? Just can't decide!

[bruinwar]

After being a lurker here for quite some time, I thought I might post & maybe get some couple opinions.

My upgrade plan was going to be the ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 & a X23800+ because my 6800GT video card is fairly new & cost me a small fortune. Then I read all about these Opterons that people are having good luck over-clocking & how you need that adjustable voltage the ASRock board does not have.

A friend at work built up 2 Opt 148s on Gigabyte Nforce3 motherboards & was quite successful with both running happily at 3000mghz. So an Nforce3 is my preference for now, I can always change out the MB later.

The hard decision for me is to go with the Opt 148 or the dual core 165? I figure for raw speed & a better chance of successful o'clocking, the 148. Or for multitasking & a smaller o'clock, the 165.

Why dual core...? I make my living as a product designer & use Pro/Engineer, a high end 3D modeling program which should be able to take advantage of 2 cores (they even have a 64bit version!). Then there is gaming of course, currently my wife & I are caught up in World of Warcraft, which some claim can take advantage of 2 cores. Then there are future games.

However, I could get the 148 CAB2E I got a decent chance of hitting 2.8, or even higher, which is nothing to sneeze at. Chances are I would be quite happy with the performance & never miss that second core.

Also, memory. Should I go for the PC 4000 stuff (DDR500)? Or some lower latency PC3200? I plan on 2-1gig sticks.

Thanks in advance.

 

[JustStarting]

I'd go with a NF4 board- no doubt. I have been playing around with quite a few chips and have yet to test a single core Opteron I didn't like. You may get a little farther with one chip vs. another, but you will be within ~200mhz of one another. A good 144 will get you to 2.7g- 2.8g for less than $160.

I am looking into getting a 165 or 170, but don't think for MY type of everyday usage, that I would notice the dual core performance. I just want to tinker with one.

 

[nealh]

If you work related apps will benefit then dual core is the way to go ....otherwise you are better off single core...

By the time games really take advantage of dual core there will be faster DCs out....so If the speed benefits are more than 5-10% on work apps then get dual core otherwise get a single core for half the price and you will typical hit a higjer o/c than a dual core can do

I own 2 dual core chips..I need to sell one

165@2610 1.49v on dfi sli dr dual prime 95 stable 15 hrs
170@2700 1.5v for 15 hrs dual prime 95...they do not seem much faster than my venice in my sig...but I do not mutlittask

 

[deals99]

Ill second that, if your programs will use dual core that seems to be the way to go.

You have to mod the board, but the voltage can be upped to 1.55V on the asrock. Good info

 

[themusgrat]

For RAM, get the PC4000 since you will be OCing. I would personally get the 165, since I have, and since the newer chips are OCing great. I can get to 3.0, though it needs lots of voltage. nF4 cannot be beat.

 

[russegb]

Bruinwar,

It's a tough one since you're in the middle in terms of benefitting from dual over single core in your usage. Since I have both a 148 and a 165, I'll share my meager thoughts.

First, I agree with both you and neath as far as what the basic pros and cons are, though I have to agree with neath that you should definitely go with an NF4 solution (excellent non-SLI overclocking for around or even under $100 from ASUS, ABIT, and DFI). I have the Asrock in my HTPC rig since I don't need anything beyond my AGP card, but unless you're limited to $70 or AGP, you'll get much better overclocking potential for less work out of an NF4 board.

For me, the dual core is worth it for HTPC usage where smooth video playback while downloading, surfing, or printing is important and no single core of any speed will handle HDTV (mpeg2 or mpeg4 decoding) smoothly if multitasking. It's also possible to get the opteron 165 in OEM form for around $275 which makes it less than the X2-3800 and only around $150 more than a similar 148 opteron.

However, as you note, you will almost certainly get better overclocking and raw everyday performance out of the 148 as dual core overclocking is limited to the lowest denominator (weakest core) and heats up very quickly with higher voltage (20c swings in a matter of seconds when testing with prime95). And with a 165 at a 9x multiplier, you will need to get your memory (or HTT) to 300 and probably watercooling in order to have maybe a 40% to 50% likelihood of matching what the 148 can do maybe 80% of the time at only 245 memory/HTT.

One strategy might be to go with the cheaper 148 opteron option and then if you find you need the multitasking even if at lower clock speeds, just sell the 148 on Ebay for a small if any loss and grab the X2 or 165 as prices may have come down further (though I suspect they will hold for a while as the next round of CPUs will be socket M and there are a lot of 939s still out there).

Either way, you'll have a killer performer.

Good luck,

russegb

 

[nealh]

remember, OCing is a big YMMV..the people who do real well will post all over net..hardforum, extremesys and AT etc

not all 165s will hit 2.7, not all 170s will hit 2.8..so much variance on components and setups

I always end getting less(I bought my venice from ATer ..same mobo...he got 2.8, best I could get stable was 2.75)

some people are real good at squeezing evey last drop of speed out of there cpus..clearly better than me

I personally feel my Opteron 165 is better chip and it has retail warranty...45%+ OC vs 170 35% OC...but I really like 2.7 vs 2.61...

165/170 expect speeds between 2.5-2.7.....

 

[bruinwar]

Thanks for all the replies. Whatever I choose, I need a motherboard.

Problem: I have a 6800GT that cost a bundle, replacing it is not in my budget, plus it is a very good performer.

What motherboard supports 939 & AGP? The ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 might work but I don't like all I read about how to mod the voltages. The NF3 board I had selected I can't be bought it seems.

What about the VIA chipsets? Abit's AX8 Via K8T890 looks promising.

Over the years I been pretty lucky with over-clocking & I really would like to carry on the tradition. =) Again, thanks for the advice!

 

[designit]

Asrock is a good mobo w/ ULi 1695 that proven to outperform NF4. You would also have issues w/ Nf4 and nf3's. I think has to do w/ SB and USB , not sure but bug that hasn?t been fixed yet as far as I know. Asrock is not expensive and can save up money to buy better rams, and other components.
I have Asrock mobo and overclocked my A64 3000 Venice to 2766 mhz.
I went ahead and bought a 146 CAB2E and am using it right now. I am able to hit 3ghz w/ it but my cheap memory is holding me back. I am waiting for some TCCD chips tor arrive.
TCCD's are good overclockers using low voltage, and very good in different settings and speed. The voltmod for Asrock is very easy and you could up the vdimm to 3.13v and vcore to 1.55v. there are several versions of voltmods, one can raise the vcore as high as you want(by Rebels's forum).
I tell you this about asrock, it overclocks and seems to be faster than DFI LP UD. I can show you asrock several seconds faster than DFI LP running same speed and same rams. A lot of noobs w/ AGP cards are overclocking it w/ ease. Yes you see those complaining or cant overclock as high. But as said lots of noob bought the mobo because of AGP card they had on other platforms and not so familiar w/ A64 and overclocking.
If you decide buying single core opty, I would suggest 146, because not too many people are happy w/ 148's. Many think because it has higher multiplier (11) it should overclock over 3ghz. but it doesn?t work that way. All depends on stepping and the hardware using.
I have seen 144's do better than a lot of 148's. 146 has a 10 multi and is a good CPU/RAM ratio, plus, lots of people having good luck overclocking it . I mean you could get some good rams do 300mhz and use 1:1 ratio and sit right at 3ghz. 3ghz 1:1 would be a killer system.
165 will give you about 2.6ghz. 2.7ghz is pushing it and is rare, requiring a lot of tinkering and too much money spent on cooling.
Give Asrock a shot, good price, good overclocker, good AGP and PCIe, and upgradable to AM2's. you wont be disappointed. This link shows you so many are buying and having fun w/ this mobo.

 

[sparkey]

bruinwar i just this week went with a148 from a sandy cabge 3700(bad oc er)and with in the first couple of hours i had it to 2.8 see sig now thats not prime stable thaat will be tested tonight but that was a first try this is a cab2e 0546 stepping ordered from newegg last weekend this is such a smooth chip compaired to the sandy i was running sp2004 and surfin the net and no slowdowns
hope this helps

 

[Mattd46612]

Anyone have benchmarks on the Opty 165? I just ordered one for my new rig, couldnt bare to go with the 148 and always think what could have been with the dual core. Just would like some benches to compare the 165 to other chips. In gaming and workstation apps.

 

[ThinkingMan]

Bruinwar,

Sounds like your system would be more suited to a Dual Core processor. However, i can tell you that i have the Dual sata board and a San Diego 3700+ (identical to a 148), and i've got mine up to 3 Ghz on air with stock volts. I'm using a Zalman 9500 heatsink which is really quiet and cools amazingly well (35 idle/ 48 load).

Maybe you can go this route for now, then when the dual cores come down in price a bit and more apps take advantage of them, sell the opty a buy an X2.

Good luck with your purchases whatever you decide

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: bruinwar

Thanks for all the replies. Whatever I choose, I need a motherboard.

Problem: I have a 6800GT that cost a bundle, replacing it is not in my budget, plus it is a very good performer.

What motherboard supports 939 & AGP? The ASRock 939Dual-SATA2 might work but I don't like all I read about how to mod the voltages. The NF3 board I had selected I can't be bought it seems.

What about the VIA chipsets? Abit's AX8 Via K8T890 looks promising.

Over the years I been pretty lucky with over-clocking & I really would like to carry on the tradition. =) Again, thanks for the advice!

as you can see in my sig, i do have a nf3 gigabyte m/b and went nf3 because my x800xtpe is still doing very well with bf2 at my lcd's resolutin of 1280x1024. i was going to go the asrock route but knew i wanted to o/c and have more V options. this may be the board you want, it has many options and was ~$65 @ newegg. i have just started to o/c my 144 and don't think i will have any problems getting to my goal of 2.5GHz on air with a zalman 7000 copper hsf running right off the m/b, so fan speed is ~2600rpm (have hearing issues, really still can't hear the machine).

but, if your work app is dual aware, that is what you would want. it seems like the gpu makers are creating drivers for their cards that will take advantage of dc and when you can gain an extra core with software that will take advantage of it, it is a no brainer to me. the couple MHz difference in single core only apps will not make a difference when your work program is dc ok.

i may have some work coming up that would utilize software that is dual aware, and if that work comes to fruition, i will order a 165 in a heartbeat...

also be aware that my 144 @ stock (1.8GHz) is still just about as fast as my P4 @ 2.8GHz for just about everything except some encoding...i got a boost of 800pts in 3dmark05 just from the cpu upgrade -> 5337 to 6167

 

[Big Lar]

I have a 148 and love it, I need to update my sig, but I now am running at the same specs, but with a Gigabyte K8NS Ultra Nforce3 board, I find it to be a tad more stable than the board in my sig, tho they both perform very well.

 

[Sonikku]

For what it's worth, you really can't go wrong with a 148 or a 165.

 

[themusgrat]

Whoever above said that some board is faster than a DFI, they are wrong. As a rule, with any nF4 LanParty mobo, the CPU and RAM are the limiting factors. I would get a non SLI DFI board if you can sell the AGP card, but if not, the Asrock is more than decent. Also, like I said, there are 2 categories of 165s. The new and really old, and all in between. New and old all do 2.7, 2.8, lots do 3.0. All in between do like 2.6, maybe higher if you are lucky. So if you buy from a big retailer who sells a lot, you will likely get a new one, and will not be disappointed.

 

[nerp]

Dual core is nice and I was hesitant to get a 148 over a dual core chip but ever since I got this 148, I'm delighted with my decision. My overclock is stable, the chip RIPS through games and the OS itself is snappy as can be. I honestly don't feel like I'm missing out by not having dual core right now. The incredible single core performance of this 148 is so good, Windows almost feels like it's being powered by a dual core processor.

The beauty of this is that I'll be able to slap in a dual core chip later, if need be. To be honest, though, I doubt that will happen before I upgrade to a new generation of motherboard/socket/processor anyway. This chip is MORE than enough for me right now.

I do a fair amount of XviD encoding too and the speed at which this thing rips through encodes is dazzling. Sure, I would see even better speeds with a dual core chip, but I'm totally not losing sleep over the fact that I can have a nice XviD completed only 15-20 minutes after first ripping the DVD.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: themusgrat
Whoever above said that some board is faster than a DFI, they are wrong. As a rule, with any nF4 LanParty mobo, the CPU and RAM are the limiting factors. I would get a non SLI DFI board if you can sell the AGP card, but if not, the Asrock is more than decent. Also, like I said, there are 2 categories of 165s. The new and really old, and all in between. New and old all do 2.7, 2.8, lots do 3.0. All in between do like 2.6, maybe higher if you are lucky. So if you buy from a big retailer who sells a lot, you will likely get a new one, and will not be disappointed.

the person was basically saying that some of the uli chipsets perform better than nf3 and nf4, and this is a known fact, i think it is the uli1695 that does better in some benches than the nf3s, and probably nf4. i don't have benches handy but this is not new. as far as saying it directly at dfi, that is what he used in his example, dfi is not the end all, be all of motherboards, they do make good boards but none are perfect.

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: designit
Asrock is a good mobo w/ ULi 1695 that proven to outperform NF4. You would also have issues w/ Nf4 and nf3's. I think has to do w/ SB and USB , not sure but bug that hasn?t been fixed yet as far as I know. Asrock is not expensive and can save up money to buy better rams, and other components.
I have Asrock mobo and overclocked my A64 3000 Venice to 2766 mhz.
I went ahead and bought a 146 CAB2E and am using it right now. I am able to hit 3ghz w/ it but my cheap memory is holding me back. I am waiting for some TCCD chips tor arrive.
TCCD's are good overclockers using low voltage, and very good in different settings and speed. The voltmod for Asrock is very easy and you could up the vdimm to 3.13v and vcore to 1.55v. there are several versions of voltmods, one can raise the vcore as high as you want(by Rebels's forum).
I tell you this about asrock, it overclocks and seems to be faster than DFI LP UD. I can show you asrock several seconds faster than DFI LP running same speed and same rams. A lot of noobs w/ AGP cards are overclocking it w/ ease. Yes you see those complaining or cant overclock as high. But as said lots of noob bought the mobo because of AGP card they had on other platforms and not so familiar w/ A64 and overclocking.
If you decide buying single core opty, I would suggest 146, because not too many people are happy w/ 148's. Many think because it has higher multiplier (11) it should overclock over 3ghz. but it doesn?t work that way. All depends on stepping and the hardware using.
I have seen 144's do better than a lot of 148's. 146 has a 10 multi and is a good CPU/RAM ratio, plus, lots of people having good luck overclocking it . I mean you could get some good rams do 300mhz and use 1:1 ratio and sit right at 3ghz. 3ghz 1:1 would be a killer system.
165 will give you about 2.6ghz. 2.7ghz is pushing it and is rare, requiring a lot of tinkering and too much money spent on cooling.
Give Asrock a shot, good price, good overclocker, good AGP and PCIe, and upgradable to AM2's. you wont be disappointed. This link shows you so many are buying and having fun w/ this mobo.

can you enlighten me on the usb issue you are reffering to with nf3? i o/ced my 144 to 2.8(9x311) for testing and received a bsod stating some usb***.sys error after the machine was on for a short period...

 

[bruinwar]

Thanks everyone for all your replies. Seriously I am overwhelmed my the responses here. Everyone's opinions were read carefully & added to other's that I read here on Anand's forum that helped me to my final decision. I miss how the Usenet used to be & I am glad I came across this active forum.

I bit the bullet & ordered a Opteron 148 CAB2E 0545MPMW. Right or wrong, this is what I am going to be running for a while.

With:
ZALMAN CNPS 9500
GIGABYTE GA-K8NSC-939 NF3-250GB 939
1GIG x2 OCZ D500 OCZ5002048ELGE-K

The motherboard was the hardest decision of all. I can always change it out later if needed. I will be posting my results on the CAB2E thread. Wish me luck!

regards,

Joe S. aka Bruinwar

 

[designit]

I said it below are the proof.
Notice the Everest latency, mem read and superpi 32M.
both mobo's have same rams but asrock is w/ venice 3000, the competetion (DFI LP) is using venice 3200.

http://img296.imageshack.us/my.php?image=111920050831091lf.jpg
http://www.ocforums.com/showpost.php?p=3893138&postcount=2
Also if you check anadtech review you will see Asrock is beating DFI LP 99% of the time.
That 1% almost dead even. Plus, NF3's AGP are known to be a disaster.
Hope find you objective and reveal the truth. NF4's and NF3's also have unresolved bugs
am sure you know.
http://www.anandtech.com/mb/showdoc.aspx?i=2524&p=7

 

[bob4432]

Originally posted by: bruinwar

Thanks everyone for all your replies. Seriously I am overwhelmed my the responses here. Everyone's opinions were read carefully & added to other's that I read here on Anand's forum that helped me to my final decision. I miss how the Usenet used to be & I am glad I came across this active forum.

I bit the bullet & ordered a Opteron 148 CAB2E 0545MPMW. Right or wrong, this is what I am going to be running for a while.

With:
ZALMAN CNPS 9500
GIGABYTE GA-K8NSC-939 NF3-250GB 939
1GIG x2 OCZ D500 OCZ5002048ELGE-K

The motherboard was the hardest decision of all. I can always change it out later if needed. I will be posting my results on the CAB2E thread. Wish me luck!

regards,

Joe S. aka Bruinwar

i have been very happy with my gigabyte board, the same one you ordered, and it is hitting 2.5GHz w/the 144 no problem so far with the zalman 7000 series copper @ stock voltage and only 40C during prime testing.

 

[nerp]

Congrats on the purchase. I have a feeling you'll be very satisfied with the results. I, too, have that Zalman CNPS 9500 cooler and it's VERY good.

 

[designit]

bob4432,
I have never used nf3 or nf4, but have come cross many threads and articles refering to the nvedia's bugs. Some have to do w/ mobo, some w/ the hardware used w/ nf3/4, some are bios related and some nvedia chip itself. I have read posts complaining about USB locking after overclocking, raids and sata not working properly, firewire, USB and agp problems.
As said many bugs are mobo and bios related, but if you go to DFIstreet forum and do a search you will see the problems/bugs the users are complaining about.
I dont mean to bash DFI or nvedia for that matter. DFI is a good mobo and a great overclocker. Unfortunately both DFI and Nvedia users are not problem free as mentioned above. Nvedia has bought ULi in hope of producing better chipset(s), that inculde Nbridge and Sbridg. Hopefully this purchase will improve and evolutionize nvedia chips and related products, that we all can benifit from. But I am afraid we are not going to see reasonably priced mobo anymore. ULi was forcing nvedia drop their price but it ended quickly.